CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1272 Old 03-26-2011, 06:43 PM
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Yea,hopefully windows is giving you the wrong resolution.
Try forcing 1080p and playing a 1080p video and see how it looks.
Is there anyway to tell for sure what the resolution is?
Maybe you could count the pixels in a small section and multiply?

How about putting a video of your new projector in action on youtube,you would be the first

edit: I just tried counting the pixels on my projector.I counted the number in an inch vertically and multiplied by the total inches in height
and it worked out pretty close, it should definitely let you know for sure.
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post #32 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 05:41 AM
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Hi thanks for the quick replies, if u missed my review for the x1000 its here called I bought a CRE X1000
Yeh i received my CE X1000 on the 25th March, I was really excited.
i was in contact with them prior to ordering & asked specifically about the bulb.
The bulb is made by Luminus & they gave me a link of where to order it from. The bulb is a PT-120 found at Luminus website.

The projector turns fully on in 8 seconds.The bulb is real 60,000 hours with LED cooling as the CRE X1000 turns off in an instant meaning you dont have to wait minutes for the fan before it shuts itself down.

The start up logo screen has 3 circles of blue, red green linked together in a mini pyramid, then underneath it has big text saying 3LED Epson D7 Panel full HD. Also on the projector casing it has letters moulded into it " 3 LCD/3LED 1080P Projector

I`m running a core-i7 920 quad core,8gb memory with a ATI HD5750 card on windows 7 64 bit.

When i got the projector, i set it up straight away as ive already got a projector screen setup from a previous projector i had.

Windows 7 recommends 1366x768 on the screen resolution setting, to change to the correct resolution, you have to set it through your graphics card ATI or Nvidia control panel change it from 75hz to 60hz & it displays perfectly

Use HDMI, VGA can support 1080 but you wont get a true HD picture so use the HDMI ports
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post #33 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk View Post

I joined up with this forum just to reply to this thread, yeh after much searching for the perfect projector i came across the CRE X1000 & was blown away by the new tech, 60,000 hour lamp 1080p specs.

Sadly i regret to inform those thinking of getting one that it is not what it claims to be.

Its actual resolution on a VGA cable is 1366x768
the resolution on a HDMI cable from my PC to the projector says 1200 x 800.
I havent tried the YPbr slots yet, but probably likely to be the same.

How do i know for sure that its 1366x768?

I enabled the clear type function in windows 7, & it asks me if i want to revert to its native reolution 1366x768.

Wierdly when i did the same clear type function from thru the hdmi cable it reported the native to be 1200x800.

Pros
Its really quiet your baby can sleep.lol
60,000 hour lamp life
3 LCD & 3 LED combined technology to give a decent picture
Its definitly 720p real; & can do 1080p 60hz but its not real 1080p
Instructions are chinese only,
Replacement bulb is $200 US for 60,000 hours
High lumen, clear picture
2 year manufacturer warranty

Cons
Not real 1080p but its slightly higher resolution than a 720p.
Light colors like white and yellows look grainy

Conclusion
Yes i took a risk it was kinda expensive $1500 USD direct from the manufacturer.
The picture quality is pretty good bright vibrant colors with the 60,000 hour bulb its a decent 720p projector but its no 1080p

------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to specs, this pj uses native 1920x1080 chips from Epson so i would bet that the lower resolution you're getting from your pc, even through HDMI, is due to HDMI "handshake" issues between output/input connections; At least you should connect a blu-ray player with its HDMI output set to 1080p directly to the pj's input and you should get full 1920x1080 resolution.
Then, invest $25 and buy a copy of the "Spears & Munsil" blu-ray test disc and really/really test everything this pj has to offer.
How is the adjustment menu for this pj ? Does it offer full CMS (color management system) to adjust primary/secondary colors individually ? Any controls for gray-scale tracking adjustments ? Is there a "dynamic contrast" control and if so does it cause any image "pumping and how good is it ? How well-superimposed is the pixel aligment for all three LCD chips as they appear onscreen ? How warm does the pj get after extensive use ? Does the pj appear to be solidly built with input/output connectors tightly held in place as well as the power cord, or is it a detachable power cord ? You mentioned that the instructions are in Chinese only, but does the onscreen menu offer a choice of languages ?
Sorry for so many questions, it's just that you're the first person i know who's purchased this unique pj, and i don't need to point out what makes it a "one of a kind" item, anyone can easily see it in the spec sheet...
Thanks >>> Marcos
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post #34 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 08:47 AM
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Hi all

The idea behind the 3 LED 3 LCD panels appears to be a sound one since many of us in the DIY Modded groups have seen LED's used with limited success in terms of their light output. Simple put, even the most powerful single LED light output is nowhere near the output of a metal halide or UHP lamp. When retrofit, this results in an image that is considerably dimmer than the standard Lamp. With the UHP lamp The light is channeled and bounced around within the projector via the use of lens's and mirror and then shot through three LCD panels before hitting the screen. If a high powered led is placed behind EACH of the 3 LCD's you would have a much brighter image since each panel now has it's own light source. In essence a supercharged CRT type hybrid. Anyway, This is the theory. My first concern is that the BLUE panel LCD issue will show up long before the LED's die. This projector could be one that is over AND under developed at the same time and if history is any indicator the quality control of these Chinese projectors has a lot to be desired and since they don't arrest or even fine manufacturers for false and misleading specifications my guess is that this is a little overstated when it comes to the specks so Buyer Beware. I think what I am trying to say is this 60 gagillion lamp hour projector is only going to be as good as it's weakest link and the chances of other components inside failing before the rated hours is pretty high. I have seen hundreds of LCD Monitors and TV's that have dead back lights and other issues due to bad inverters and Bad Caps. ALL of these boast High hours with no Maintence in thier sales pitches.
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BTW I am currently doing some research on the Native resolution aspect of LCD projectors and how they are verified since I am starting to believe that home theatre projectors and their specks are in a world of their own.
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post #35 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 03:07 PM
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Personally i feel that as far as onscreen brightness is concerned, we're already there with this crop of LCD/DLP projectors using the PT-120 LED chipset from Luminus Devices.
Projector Central measured the brightness of the Samsung F10M (3LCD + R/G/B LED PT-121 chipset which has the same output as the PT-120 but is optimized for 4:3 displays instead of 16:9) at 667 lumens in "movie" mode calibrated for the best color and contrast, whereas the new top-of-the-line Sony VPL-VWPR01 LCOS pj measured 857 lumens under the same conditions with the lamp set to "high", and the reviewer pointed out that this new Sony measured 30% more than the previous generation of Sony LCOS pjs.
I am not saying that LEDs used for illuminating digital pjs are anywhere near as bright as metal halide lamps, just pointing out that after calibration onscreen brightness seem to even out pretty close...
Insofar as "the blue panel LCD issue" is concerned, i think you're confusing the life expectancy of Organic LCD chips (specifically chips using blue dyes) which have been tested to last at most 3.000 to 4.000 hours of use before severe degradation set in, but these organic chips have been improved and substituted by using INorganic dyes that last much/much longer according to Epson; That hasn't anything to do with the longevity of these LED chipsets, which have been conservatively rated anywhere from 20.000 to 60.000 hours of use by pj manufacturers, whereas Luminus Devices claims they've been tested at 100.000 hours before failure.
You're right about two points you made : standard bulbs used on 3-panels pjs have their output split into the three primary colors by a dichroic mirror with the light then redirected to each individual panel, and that causes a lot of loss compared to using single LED chips optimized to illuminate each panel; You also mentioned the fact that chances are other internal parts would fail long before these LED chipsets.
BTW, i don't think that Epson any longer manufactures LCD chips with native resolution lower than 1920x1080 pixels, AFAIK...
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post #36 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 03:21 PM
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Ok i decided to count some pixels,
i counted across tho not verticaly just to see how many pixels i could count.
Pixels counted in an Inch is 27-28 pixels
I counted it twice on the PC via VGA & on Xbox 360 standard HDMI cable set to 1080p.
SO whats a real 1080p inch worth of pixels?
about 52?

I`m enjoying Battlestar Galactica seasons 1-4 & watch again from the beginning in stunning 1080p

My PC is my TV, i`m waiting on a DVB-t2 USB stick to come in post so i can watch freeview HD.

Another intresting bit info u may like is that i looked at the manual, even tho its chinese, there was some english writing on the specs page

heres what is says:

Resolution 1984*1088

There a bunch of other stuff written i`ll have to take a snapshot as i`m not sure exactly what model it is, as the chinese headings are listed as
VX, GX, BX, NX,KX, which is confusing as the cover of the manual says its a CRE X 1000-HT.

Under the various BX , VX columns is listed more info for other models i`m guessing.........

i.e For main chip info under the GX column it says Hollywood quality V-ideo.
Under GX it says Pixelworks,
Under BX, NX, KX it says Mstar Semiconductor.

What i`ll do is take a picture of the specs page from the manual; when i`m allowed to post links here and hopefully someone can make sense of it.
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post #37 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 03:41 PM
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I'm amazed you cannot figure out the resolution of your projector. Stunned really.

Pixels per inch changes with the size of the screen. Useless comparing to the number you count on your pc monitor.
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post #38 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk View Post
Ok i decided to count some pixels,
i counted across tho not verticaly just to see how many pixels i could count.
Pixels counted in an Inch is 27-28 pixels
I counted it twice on the PC via VGA & on Xbox 360 standard HDMI cable set to 1080p.
SO whats a real 1080p inch worth of pixels?
about 52?

As for a blu ray player nope, i dont got one, besides my plan was to get a blu ray drive for PC, Then buy Battlestar Galactica seasons 1-4 & watch again from the beginning in stunning 1080p on my too good to be true CRE X1000 , gah! my plans have been foiled.

My PC is my TV, i`m waiting on a DVB-t2 USB stick to come in post so i can watch freeview HD.
Its a shame the PC / projector is stuck with a native 1366x768 using fake 1080p output.

Another intresting bit info u may like is that i looked at the manual, even tho its chinese, there was some english writing on the specs page

heres what is says:

Resolution 1984*1088

There a bunch of other stuff written i`ll have to take a snapshot as i`m not sure exactly what model it is, as the chinese headings are listed as
VX, GX, BX, NX,KX, which is confusing as the cover of the manual says its a CRE X 1000-HT.

Under the various BX , VX columns is listed more info for other models i`m guessing.........

i.e For main chip info under the GX column it says Hollywood quality V-ideo.
Under GX it says Pixelworks,
Under BX, NX, KX it says Mstar Semiconductor.

What i`ll do is take a picture of the specs page from the manual; when i`m allowed to post links here and hopefully someone can make sense of it.

Under all models which is worrying it says Physical resolution 1984*1088

These people are just making up numbers it seems? is that even a real resolution?
RELAX! With some troubleshooting, I'd guess you'll find that it really is 1080p-capable. That's just not the sort of easily-verifiable thing a manufacturer is going to lie about.

On the other hand, this sort of miscommunication between display devices, display adapters, and display drivers is VERY common.

You wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk
Its actual resolution on a VGA cable is 1366x768
the resolution on a HDMI cable from my PC to the projector says 1200 x 800.
I havent tried the YPbr slots yet, but probably likely to be the same.

How do i know for sure that its 1366x768?

I enabled the clear type function in windows 7, & it asks me if i want to revert to its native reolution 1366x768.

Wierdly when i did the same clear type function from thru the hdmi cable it reported the native to be 1200x800.
First, ignore the "VGA cable" resolution. It's meaningless, because you don't want to use that anyway.

Secondly, 1200x800 is only what the three things (display, display adapter, and driver) agree on, it's not necessarily the truth, nor the best they will do together.

What you need to do is get into the display settings in Win7, and tell the driver to let you try "unsupported resolutions". In Nvidia's Control Panel, the button you need is "Customize". Then select "1080p, 60Hz" (or 59Hz if that's what's there) and apply it.

My bet is that it'll work fine.

Feel free to PM me if you want some help over the phone, and I'll walk you through the process.
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post #39 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 04:05 PM
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How wide is the image? Width wise how many pixels per inch?

(Number of pixels per inch) * (Number of inches your image is) = About the horizontal resolution of the projector.

Now I don't expect it to be exact but should give you a good approximation.
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post #40 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 04:17 PM
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Perhaps the true resolution is lost in the translation. Maybe what the mfg is trying to say is that the projector will accept "up to" a 1920x1080 resolution.

Jack
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post #41 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 04:20 PM
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Thank you for your answers, sellmejunk.
You just gave us another hint of the "innards" of this pj by mentioning "Pixelworks", which is a highly respected manufacturer of video processing chips, up there with Abt, Anchor Bay, HQV Realta/Reon, Marvell, etc; So that's another very encouraging point concerning the quality of parts used.
So far i see native 1920x1080 Epson D7 LCD chips + Luminus Devices PT-120 LED chipset + Pixelworks video processor, all currently near or top-of-the-line electronics.
What i am most interested now is how well put together are the input/output connectors AND the pixel alignment for all three LCD chips displaying an onscreen grid test pattern, especially considering that these pjs are being sold and shipped individually from China, with all the rough handling and banging that implies.
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post #42 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 05:14 PM
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There are no -micro-1366x768-lcd panels so we know there is some thing wrong.

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post #43 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 05:22 PM
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Ok, ports + the spec page of the manual.
1stly to adress the ports, & quality of the unit, i think it looks great it isnt too bulky,looks very much like the Epson TW`s. The ports on the back around the HDMi are illuminated with green lights eminating from within the machine. the ports seem of decent build.







http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/u...X1000spec2.jpg
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post #44 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 05:26 PM
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post #45 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 05:28 PM
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urm.... wouldnt let me put the 2nd spec sheet picture directly but the link to view it,is above at the bottom of the last notice
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post #46 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 05:45 PM
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yeh, the power is off in the port picture, lol i`ll post some more pics tommorrow , it does got eerie lights!
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post #47 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 05:58 PM
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If you counted 27 pixels in an inch and you are displaying an image of 71 inches wide you are seeing 1080p resolutions. 1920 divided by 27 equals 71.111111 inches. I believe you said you are projecting an image of 96 inches, so I conclude that the projector must be 1080p.

Epson Home Cinema 3010 Projector____Paradigm 9SE MK II Main LR
Yamaha RX-V667 AVR_______________Paradigm CC-270 V.3 Center
Emotiva UPA-5 Amplifier______________Paradigm PS-1200 Sub
Sony BDP-570 Blu Ray_______________Polk bookshelf for Surrounds
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post #48 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 06:17 PM
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It is very easy to figure out the resolution, just multiply the number of pixels per inch by the number of inches of width in the projected image. For instance if you have 24 pixels in one inch, and the image is 80 inches wide, you can multiply 24 x 80 which gives you 1920. 1080p is 1920 x 1080 where 1920 is the number of horizontal pixels or from left to right, and the 1080 is the number of vertical pixels or top to bottom. A very easy way would be for you to make your image exactly 80 inches wide and count the pixels. If you have 24 pixels in an inch you will know it is 1080p resolution.

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.

Epson Home Cinema 3010 Projector____Paradigm 9SE MK II Main LR
Yamaha RX-V667 AVR_______________Paradigm CC-270 V.3 Center
Emotiva UPA-5 Amplifier______________Paradigm PS-1200 Sub
Sony BDP-570 Blu Ray_______________Polk bookshelf for Surrounds
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post #49 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 08:55 PM
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YES! stupid windows 7 is only made for monitors it seems!
I had to play around with my ATI cataylist card it was using a maxiumum refresh rate of 75hz!
I changed it to manually to 60hz & bingo!

I thought Windows 7 being newer would know the difference between a projector and a monitor, lol i guess not.

Like i said i only got this on friday, 2 days ago! but i`m so glad i joined this forum.

Yep the picture is alot more crisper now its set to the right frequency.

Since i toyed with the ATI control panel the windows resoution slider has wiped off the old recommended setting of 1366 x768 (used to be bold letters), now its all normal lettering scaling all the way upto 1920 x 1080.

To be honest i wasnt sure what to expect when purchased the projector, but pleased to say now that this is a clean picture, the whites are more clearer now and i had some nasty barring effects before, but its all been cleared away now,,since is now on the correct frequency.

I wanna say a big thanks to all who looked & replied, the idea of a affordable 1080p projector with a 60,000 hour lamp life with a decent picture is now a reality!

Let CRE take the world!

when i have some time i`ll review the questions ive been asked, tho i `m not too tech on some matter, ah yeh and these pixels are same vertical as they are horizontally
Hopefully the manual will help, Hans has sent me the English version of the manualin PDF format!!, will try and upload it somewhere & make the link available to ya` all
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post #50 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk View Post

I`m running the it on the VGA at the moment.
i`ll have to try with the HDMI again.

VGA? And you think it looks pretty good, eh?

Just wait until you get it running on the HDMI interface - you won't believe your eyes!

Be prepared to have to force it to 1080p @ 60Hz again.

Where are you located? How much did the shipping cost, and how long did it take?

Does this PJ do horizontal and vertical lens offset? How about the zoom and throw ratio????
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post #51 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 09:27 PM
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PDF Manual for CRE X1000!

Hopefully will answer some questions.

download here

Enjoy!
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post #52 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 09:27 PM
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Would you recommend this pj now? how long did it take to get to your door after you ordered? does it have a zoom capability? Can you post up a video or some pics? how does it compare to anything else you have tried?

sorry for all the questions.. looking to purchase a new pj asap

thanks

Capt
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post #53 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 09:40 PM
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urm.. well i havent read the manual yet, ive just recieved it like 5 mins ago, but as far as i know more on the no frills side, there no fancy motorization here, unless its in the manual!!!
So manual zoom, twisting lens one way to make large & twisting the other way to make small/+ focus.

Shipping to me in England was about $110 by DHL & yes there is a customs charge so expect to pay duty & vat.

Later friends i`m gonna read the manual & see if this has a dust filter to maintain.
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post #54 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 10:09 PM
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Thanks again, sellmejunk.
Now that you got it to display full 1920x1080 may i suggest again that you purchase a copy to the test blu-ray disc i mentioned above to really test the capabilities of this pj, especially for panel pixel alignment ?
Perhaps the biggest issue with 3 panels digital pjs is how precisely all pixels from all 3 panels (over 6.000.000 pixels total !) are superimposed and displayed onscreen : the more misalignment the "fuzzier" the picture, less aparent resolution and more unwanted color registration problems, i.e. color "fringing".
I am also very, very curious whether or not it has a dynamic contrast control and how well does it work; Also, how warm does it get after a few hours of usage...And i was just going to ask you about dust filters and whether or not the LCD panels are fully encapsulated to prevent dust build-up, but then i imagine that is a question to be put directly to Mr. Hans at CRE...
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post #55 of 1272 Old 03-27-2011, 11:25 PM
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...tried to post pdf 400kb to big

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post #56 of 1272 Old 03-28-2011, 02:06 AM
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Ok sellmejunk (hopefully you picked the wrong name), you don't know what you got yourself into
I/we? want all the info you can give,screen shots,video...
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post #57 of 1272 Old 03-28-2011, 03:14 AM
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sellmejunk >>> You're certainly making our lives a lot easier by posting all this info.
I just scanned through the pdf you posted and i see that for an 87" to 105" screen the recommended distance to place the pj is a little over 13 feet.
Also, going to menu and selecting "Picture", there is an option for "Picture Mode < User >" that appears to open a submenu for "Advance" (?) "Temperature R ~ G ~ B" which may OR may not give the user a rudimentary gray-scale adjustment control to raise or lower the entire scale for each color, instead of offering a truly useful control for raising/lowering each end of the scale separately - such scale presented as a linear horizontal scale starting at near black going all the way to bright white, i.e. gray scale tracking...
It would be nice if it also gave the user separate R/G/B color controls for intensity, brightness and tint, thus allowing the user to fine tune "color points"...
However, my current A/V processor has pretty good controls for gray-scale tracking adjusments and, from my personal experience with the amazing colors offered by LED chipsets from Luminus Devices, i became a convinced sucker for oversaturated LED colors, ha !
Thanks again and keep up the good work.
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post #58 of 1272 Old 03-28-2011, 05:52 AM
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Hey Magusto thanks for your in depth reply. I believe what I call LCD "panels" you are calling "chips". I agree with you about the new in organic panels. They are supposed to be more resilient to UV light and breaking down which has been the scourge of high output LCD projectors. The panels that I have experience with are made by Sony. From what I understand the jury is still out on the breakdown of the newer panels. The real issue has always been the Blue screen in particular along with the blue polarizing filter due to the panels constant exposure to high levels of UV light. This Cre LED beast seems to be cutting edge and could lead the way to a life time lamp projector. However the component /part failure is a real possibility in today's newer across the board electronics especially with the Capacitors that are used in power supply's. There are several forums specially devoted to bad caps. The other issue I have is all the onboard all in one chips that are used in the newer electronic products. It seem like that when they fail the solution is to "throw the whole thing away " which defeats the main reason the electronic item was purchased in the first place. There is not enough known about this projector yet to make a decision but it appears promising. The only thing I that I see so far is this machine is being lumped in with the cheap single panel 7 inch TFT screen visionmax PJ's that are ruining the home theatre market for the general public.

With regards to your later LCD dust filter comment. I don't think dust is going to be an issue if the three LED's are mounted behind the LCD panels but this is speculation on my part.

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post #59 of 1272 Old 03-28-2011, 06:56 AM
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I am curious to hear how well this projectors LCD panels are aligned. Sellmejunk, there is an easy way to test this. Try displaying some white text on a black background with the projector from your computer on different parts of the screen. Get up close to the projected image and see if the pixels are aligned properly. If alignment is off there will be visible halo effect or a noticeable shift in the three primary colors from one another. Usually the pixels are a little off, maybe half a pixel in not bad.

Epson Home Cinema 3010 Projector____Paradigm 9SE MK II Main LR
Yamaha RX-V667 AVR_______________Paradigm CC-270 V.3 Center
Emotiva UPA-5 Amplifier______________Paradigm PS-1200 Sub
Sony BDP-570 Blu Ray_______________Polk bookshelf for Surrounds
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post #60 of 1272 Old 03-28-2011, 07:44 AM
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Obviously the next question will be how is the black level? Not sure how good the panels are, but doubt they are epsons high end "ultra black" LCD panels. I could be wrong, but oh well. It is exciting that this tech is finally coming in the form factor that we all want: not a pico projector, 720 - 1080 p, decent brightness
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