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CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys?

224K views 1K replies 107 participants last post by  Verge2 
#1 ·
#504 ·
Don't get me wrong folks. I swear by LCD projectors over DLP's and have been a fan of Sanyo products for years as they are built like tanks!! The ONLY reason I listed this article which CLEARLY has a DLP Bias was to highlight the Blue screen problems that plague LCD projectors that ALL seem to revolve around blue panel failures being the weakest link. DLP's have their own set of problems as well starting with color wheel failure and the way they tunnel the lamps output which I believe leads to premature lamp failure in certain projectors.

My point was and still is that a projector that is supposed to have a 30K hour lamp life expectancy looks great but if one of the panels goes Kaput after say 4 or 5 thousand hours WhatF'n good is it? Currently I have a 60 inch Pioneer Pro-150FD plasma TV sitting in my living room that has what I think is a blown power supply board. The unit's list price is 7500.00 and when I open it up I can see that it has been serviced already. I am not sure If I want to spend 250.00 and take a chance buying a new power supply or cart this electronic marvel to the DUMP!!! One of the things thats makes the plasmas so FREAKING great to watch is the way they render blacks. I'm sure the guy who bought this thing that was made in JAN of 2008 NEVER thought that he would ONLY get two years out of it!! The same goes with any electronic product that's main selling feature is it's expected life span and low maintence costs!! I would never buy one of these Cre 's unless I knew that the panels and the other components would go the entire distance!! For me the organic panel issue is a Huge deal breaker and I think we should ALL thank Mcaugusto for his diligence in bringing it to our attention

Bohanna
 
#505 ·
SELLMEJUNK stays happy for a while longer I'm going to join him.


I've had 6 projectors in 10 years. I'm now watching an Epson 6500UB and I love it. Just changed the bulb at 3400 hours. I'm not changing anymore stink in ' bulbs. LED is the future. The CRE X1000 for $1700 delivered is a sweet deal!


I've had new projectors in the box DOA I've sent back. Polorizers, fans, dust, and any number of problems.


Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and pull the trigger! A review would be nice on this projector. So far there are none to be found?


This is really a "state of the art" model at this time.
 
#506 ·
Wow, this thread has become more and more "interestinger"...

Bohanna >>> Thanks for the recognition and sorry to hear about your Pioneer PRO -150FD plasma display ($7.500 !) with a blown power supply board that lasted less than three years from date of manufacture; As you pointed out, there is always a chance of failure even with top notch electronics and i can testify to that after purchasing all kinds of A/V equipment for the past 40 years...

I was very surprised finding out there is such a thing as an "Epson D7 LCD chip with organic polarizer layers"; I assumed that the entire current line of native 1920x1080 LCD chips from Epson was based on that "C2Fine" brand name which implies the use of inorganic material only; Little did i know...

HiFiFun >>> A $5.000 projector using LCOS panels with inorganic material which i imagine you purchased within the past three years and that now exhibits a "pink tint on right edge of screen with only 800 hours of use" ? That's pretty poor performance, but are you sure it's attributed to the inorganic material used and not due to poor pixel alignment of the three superimposed imaging chips, more noticeable on the right side of screen ?

About three years ago i remember reading of problems with Sony's earlier generation of SXRD chips and even years earlier, of problems with JVC/Hughes first generation of DILA chips but no reports ever since, and if the problem with your pj turns out to be attributed to failure of inorganic polarizer layer of LCOS chips (SXRD or DILA ?), then that deserves a thread of its own, that how unique that would seem in my estimation.

I would also like to thank you for that very interesting link to Zeiss Optics explaining why the company relies exclusively on DMD chips from Texas Instruments for their projectors; It kind of confirms my suspicions that perhaps in the future i should consider purchasing only projectors that use DMD chips + LEDs from Luminus Devices ?

Mikes2Cents >>> A Samsung RP TV with LEDs from Luminus Devices that's still as good as new after years of use which you disassembled, cleaned up, reassembled and now continues to provide your family with great TV viewing, that's commendable, Sir ! It's the type of empirical news from the A/V world that i delight in hearing about.

Its also a testament to the reliability and longevity of these LED chips from Luminus Devices and how timely and smart for Samsung to use them in the company's last generation of RP TVs. That's how good design and manufacturing pays off in the end; I remember reading a test report of one of these LED RP units about three years ago and always wondered what kind of image they would throw...

JackB >>> Another post commenting on the reliability of these Samsung LED engines after years of constant family use...That bodes well, hmm....

SellmeJunk >>> After contacting CRE a couple of times recently, i doubt you're gonna get much info from them, especially the kind of detailed info you're looking for. I would ask them about the sealed light path, pictures from the inside of unit, how the "pipe cooling" works, why did CRE stopped using better video processing chips from HQV and Pixelworks and decided on cheaper version from MstarSemiconductor, and considering you're a purchaser, why not suggest the use of the better inorganic D7 Epson chip, which i wonder they're even aware of the improvements ? That type of questioning might get some detailed response...

BTW, LCD imaging chips are TRANSMISSIVE by nature and MUST be illuminated from behind with the light beam shining through them, as opposed to LCOS and DMD imaging chips which are illuminated from the front surface and reflect back the light, and are thus REFLECTIVE...
 
#507 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laredo /forum/post/20528006



This is really a "state of the art" model at this time.

Hmm ,state of the art?-if this is real it will make a whole 20 or so 1920x1080 lcd pj,s.
 
#508 ·
Ah yeh you cant argue with plasma TV`s they give an awesome picture (even tho high power consumption).

I like bohannas enthusiasm for Sanyo, my very 1st digital camera was a 0.5 megapixel Sanyo, & i swear that was the best digital camera i`ve owned



Mcaugusto: In your e-mails to CRE: did they say they stopped using pixelworks hollywood chip? I`m curious as in the manual there seems to be other models that do, (perhaps they arent out yet).

I can ask about their other models.


 
#510 ·
I too agree that LCD does not have the longevity of DLP. I was hoping that there would be advancements in LCD that would alleviate some of the problems with the polarizers and general panel failure, but it seems that Epson has only been able to prolong the inevitable.


I would still like to see this combination of LCD/LED come into the market. This will bring competition for the DLP units and hopefully bring the prices down to an affordable level.


I guess the question being asked of this projector is what is the weakest link? What will fail first?
 
#511 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson /forum/post/20528365


I too agree that LCD does not have the longevity of DLP. I was hoping that there would be advancements in LCD that would alleviate some of the problems with the polarizers and general panel failure, but it seems that Epson has only been able to prolong the inevitable.


I would still like to see this combination of LCD/LED come into the market. This will bring competition for the DLP units and hopefully bring the prices down to an affordable level.


I guess the question being asked of this projector is what is the weakest link? What will fail first?

The issues I have found with the DLP's is first and foremost the FREAKING color wheel whining complaints that EVERYONe talks about along with their complete failures which I put far above the Blue screen LCD trouble. The other issue is the lamp life and the fact that most of them use a tiny escape hole just prior to the color wheel for the light to pass though which I believe results in shorter lamp life. I also get headaches from watching the DLP's as It appears more Jagged in my mind when I watch it. I think the LCD technology is a natural spin off of the original three gun/Tube RBG CRT sets. The higher the lumen output the lower the contrast ratio. I prefer the higher brighter commercial projectors picture to the home theater projectors since in the real world we have to deal with this little troublesome thing called SUNLIGHT!! It would be very nice it we could convince the NFL, MLB and the NBA to ONLY run their games after 10:00 PM when our eyes are not distracted by daytime solar issues. Until then I for one will use my trusty xp10NA or my xp10NA for my main projector. I understand all the bragging rights with respect to the newer 1080P sets but WTF good is it if you can't see or have to squint like hell to see the image?? This Cre x1000 grabbed my attention from the start go because its the first three LED/LCD unit in the world and could be the start of a whole new home theater revolution. Unfortunately the Blue panel issue is still a serious concern to anyone thinking long term use.

Bohanna
 
#512 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohanna /forum/post/20245755


it would seem that these led's work as a light and polariser all in one which is a pretty good thing. The 12mm surface area is great. This makes this uint basically a turbocharged crt type design with the three primary colors and not 6500 to 9500k white as a driving color. Does anybody know for sure if this is what the cre x1000 is using?

bohanna
Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson /forum/post/20245619


pt120 data sheet. I am not 100% sure, but i believe by looking at the data that the blue led does not produce wavelength in the ultraviolet range. Ultraviolet has a range from 10 nm to 400 nm. In the data sheet it says that the blue led produces light at dominant wavelengths between 450 nm to 468 nm, typically 462. It also mentions a spectral bandwidth of 20 nm. This could be a good sign.

Just thought it intresting as its definitley the luminus PT-120 inside


We`ll hopefully find out when we send off our collective questions, if the X1000 produces UV or IR wavelengths.

http://www.luminus.com/products/PT-120.html
 
#513 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk /forum/post/20529152


Just thought it intresting as its definitley the luminus PT-120


We`ll hopefully find out when we send off our collective questions, if the X1000 produces UV or IR wavelengths

Yes, yesterday I was going to go through the PT-120 data sheet again, but the link is now 404. I was browsing through their site to see if I could find anything on UV output. There is actually a chip named the CBT-120-UV by luminus that apparently is designed to produce UV light. When clicking on the link for this chip I was routed to the CBT-120 information page, which did not have the CBT-120-UV listed. It does have the red, green, and blue versions of the CBT-120 though. These are very similar to the PT-120s in their design and color range, but only have about half the lumen output. There is a graph on the data sheet that shows the typical spectrum of each color and looking at these gives one an idea of the color output expected of each LED.


I do not claim to be an expert on the subject, but I recently received an A in my physics class last semester. Two of the last four chapters focused on light, lenses, reflection, etc... By reading the charts and specifications of each LED it appears to me that the blue LED is not capable of producing UV light, and the red LED is not capable of producing IR. There is a very precise spike in the color spectrum that each LED is designed to produce. I am not sure why the CBT-120-UV is omited from the charts though, unless is has not yet been released.
 
#515 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk /forum/post/20529521


Thxs Action Jackson some very useful info. I found a UV IR chart for us to examine if you can confirm its accurate.
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/science/uv-spectrum.htm

PT-120 (from luminus website):Typical dominant wavelengths: RED 623 nm, GREEN 525 nm, BLUE 460 nm.

Yeh the orginal spec sheet link has gone 404, suspicious ..? lol

Yes, something suspicious with the 404, lol, maybe they had too many hits?



The chart you referenced is correct. As you can see on the chart the UV wavelengths fall below 400 nm. The blue LED produces its peak output at 460 nm. Output drops to half at 447 nm, and zero at 413 nm. So, zero output at 13 nm above UV light wavelengths. This is close and does leave little room for error.


I have found from further research that the CBT-120-UV produces its peak output at 395 nm. The article also stated that it is difficult to produce LEDs that will output powerful UV light.
 
#516 ·

Quote:
Action Jackson- "So, zero output at 13 nm above UV light wavelengths. This is close and does leave little room for error."


In regards to the problem i had with my x1000. Could a 3M part have caused "The little room for error", with the PT-120?.

Their explanation to me at the time was:"problem with the optics sourced from 3M"

Now that we know that the luminus PT 120 is unlikely to have caused it. (tho may come close)

None the less i`ll include the UV question.


Heres the final list of questions


1. Alot of people have asked for pictures of inside the

X1000. please be so kind to provide.


2. Can you tell or show us if the LED s are located behind the LCDs?


3. Can you show us X1000 picture of cooling heat pipe &

airflow, light path.


4. Do use good quality transistors, capacitors, resistors

inside x1000 for long life?

5. Do you make an Inorganic D7 panel version of the X1000.

6. Does the x1000 filter out or produce UV (ultra Violet

light or Infrared light?

7. Does the x1000 have a sealed light path / Optical system?

8. For 3000 lumen output, In final tests of lumen measuring, after the light has passed through the projector light system, the lumens should come down to between 400 to 1000+ lumens. Do you know the actual final lumen number?


Some curious people have asked about Hollywood Studio chip.


9 Can you tell us, do you have x1000 containing the VX

class with Hollywood studio chip & GX class Pixelworks

available to buy yet.


---


IF someone has a question that i can ask specifically about the 3M problem, I`ll add it to the end of the list. Then send it out.


Much appreciated,

SMJ
 
#517 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk /forum/post/20529964


In regards to the problem i had with my x1000. Could a 3M part have caused "The little room for error", with the PT-120?.

Their explanation to me at the time was:"problem with the optics sourced from 3M"


SMJ

3M does produce UV optical filters. If for some reason the LED is producing UV light and the UV filter failed, this would make sense. With the LED producing wavelengths so close to UV, these wavelengths could be damaging as well. I am not sure, like I said, I'm no expert.


Maybe you could ask if the 3M optics problem had anything to do with UV light? Maybe the UV filter or polarizer failed?


A polarizer and a UV filter do completely different things. I am sure these could be sandwiched together, but they are not one in the same. You can definitely have one without the other as they are sold individually.
 
#518 ·
Thanks Action Jackson, that makes alot of sense, i`m picking up this tech lingo appreciate your coolness;and boy did i NEED it.

This happened to me just 20 mins ago & I`m not joking!


What not to do with your projector


OK

Any doubts i`ve had about the CRE X1000 have completly vanished. Ive just done the most stupidist thing ever, & the X1000 survived!


I put on an episode of battlestar Galactica just now, & about 32 mins into the episode the X1000 image dimmed? I`m thinking WTF? I look up from the couch to see the projector, & holy crap, Ive just realized Ive forgotten to turn on the fans in the cooler box!!

Mother of GOd! Have mercy! I cried clutching my forehead! jumped up, climbing my couch to turn on the fans, & then switched off the PJ hesitantly.


I got a knotted feeling in my stomach, whilst i waited about 2 minutes for the projector to cool.


Tried the on button,... nothing,,, crap,,,unplugged it from the mains, counted to 30, plugged it back in, ON,,, Blessed be thy x1000 LIVES! turned on, with no probs!!!!


WHats more dumber than putting a projector on top of a Pre-amp?, probably this! (phew!)

Hows that for a road test!

Nearly 40 mins in coolbox turned hotbox! Yay!

& yes i really am that dumb! (doh!)

Probably wasnt very healthy for the poor x1000, but it sure is testament to it!

( I swear i am so grateful to the heavens it survived, finally some good luck)
 
#519 ·
I'm not sure how difficult it would be, but you may want to look into using the 12v trigger to activate the fans. Does the pj have a 12v trigger?
 
#520 ·
Trigger? i`m not familar with, can some projectors run extra external fans?, i`m using PC fans for this project.

Initially had set out to assemble the cool box, i had bought an independent molex 4 pin power suppply to run the PC fan controller for the box, but sadly the power suppply was junk, and overheated going pop after 10 mins.

The coolbox was ready to go, just needed power. Frustrated so decided to cut up an old lawnmower cable into two pieces directly into the back the PC to another cut up molex pc connection with electrical tape. My PC runs the fans on the cool box 4 metres away.


YEh i need another fan controller on the PC to turn on the other fans. At the moment i have to hike up the couch and turn up the 4 dials. ( good excercise..lol)


As ive already embarrased myself, i thought i share my contribution for worst DIY project.

Heres a pic of my coolbox,, cellotape, cardboard and wood effect wrinkled vinyl.
http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/u...oling/boxy.jpg She`s not pretty tho she does give an extra dust barrier.


Questions have been sent to CRE!
 
#521 ·
Many pieces of home theater equipment have 12v triggers to allow the sending of a signal to turn on other pieces. For instance a pre-amp can signal an amp to turn on and off, or a projector can signal a motorized screen to lower and retract.
 
#522 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk /forum/post/20530614


As ive already embarrased myself, i thought i share my contribution for worst DIY project.

Heres a pic of my coolbox,, cellotape, cardboard and wood effect wrinkled vinyl.
http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/u...oling/boxy.jpg She`s not pretty tho she does give an extra dust barrier.


!

Wow! That box is.....something else. Not sure I see why you need it as it seems that shelf unit is open enough. If the air intake of the PJ is in the back I would move it out some and lose the box. If the heat bothered me that much I would aim a regular small fan from below at the unit and go with that. Not so sure about your box there SMJ.
 
#523 ·

Quote:
x1000, but it sure is testament to it!

I'm very interested in LEDs so I'm subscribed to this thread. That said, if I paid 1000 dollars for something that wouldn't work properly without a cardboard box full of computer fans, I would graciously ask for my money back. That is unheard of. If that didn't work, I would be off to court.



Are you entirely sure this box is necessary?
 
#524 ·
The box does seem like a projector killer. I would not trust any of my equipment in it.
 
#526 ·
Acrylic was to be by 1st choice, but mis- cut the panel i bought, making a mess of it.

I had been avoiding posting a picture of my badly made cool box for sometime now..lol despite its looks it does function well (when i remember to put the fans on!)


After last nights lucky escape , i think i`ve proven the x1000 is pretty durable to survive nearly 40 mins with restricted airflow inside the (tin foil lined) death box!.

Like i had mentioned before, the x1000 does in fact run cool without a coolbox, its only because of the paranoia surrounding the 3M incident that i opted for a backup.

Some people from this forum had even gone as far to suggest that CRE was lieing to me about the 3M issue with some folk insisting it was a screen burn. I think now the evidence proves otherwise! (PT 120 specs etc)

I am now really confident in the quality & durability of the X1000, i thought after last night it would be toast for sure!
 
#527 ·
That is indeed good news that it survived the heat test!


I live in the desert with very high heat and dust problems.

Most projectors I have owned Sony, Epson, and several others

give me a screen warning to "check air filters" because of excessive

heat warning.


Looks like the CRE X1000 doesn't warn or auto shut?


However, because yours survived if I buy one I feel safe to skip the cooling

box now.
 
#528 ·
Thats one question i forgot to add to the list.


: Is there auto shutdown feature incase of overheat.


I`m not sure what the X1000 heat limits are, but the x1000 did signal to me it was in difficulty,by seemingly going into a low power mode by dimming the projected image. It was because of that, it caused me to look up, & realize my error. I was watching Battlestar Galactica bluray at the time

Bluray playback would put any projector through its paces, so it was definitly getting a good workout in its hot box
 
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