I was under the impression that LCD projectors were more light efficient. Why would you not expect the lumen ouptut to be as high as projectors based on DLP with the same PT-120 RGB light source?
Here is a quote from an article on projector central
"Better light efficiency, less power usage. LCD technology is inherently more light efficient. For the most part LCD projectors use lower wattage lamps to produce the same image brightness that you'd get from DLP. This is most noticeable when comparing LCD projectors to DLP projectors that have no white segment in the color wheel. As an example, compare two currently popular 1080p home theater projectors--the Panasonic AE3000 LCD projector uses a 165-watt lamp to produce 1600 ANSI lumens. Meanwhile, the Sharp Z15000 DLP projector needs a 250-watt lamp to get the same 1600 lumens. That can make a noticeable difference in power consumption. It can also make a difference in the amount of heat being generated by the projector's exhaust in the viewing room." http://http://www.projectorcentral.c...nd-Limitations
The question we asked to them specifically about if the LEDs were located behind the LCD was to determine the brightness of this combo technology, which fits bohannas theory that if they were alligned like that, then it would maximize lumen output.
I still have a few questions about where the LED's are actually mounted. But this thing looks to be almost hand built with some traditional components that I never thought I would see in here. Don't get me wrong I think it's a good thing as they are typically underrated and more reliable than some of the newer allinone parts. Another thing I would like to point out to you lumen fanatics is you will NEVER get high lumen output without sacrificing contrast ratio's. The brighter you make the projector the lower the contrast ratio. That is one of the reasons I prefer the Business class projectors for watching TV especially sports. If I get a chance I will try to digest what I see here and report my opinions back. Until then thanks to SMJ and all the others who have made this thread so dam interesting.
Bohanna
BTW????? WTF is up with the porn pop ups when you try and enlarge the Pict's.???
I can't even view the pics at work, they atomatically get blocked for porn. I hope I don't get questioned over this, that would be rather embarrasing...
It's too bad no pictures were sent with the PCB covering the LEDs removed. The only logical place to mount the LEDs is behind the LCD, one to each of the three panels. You can see three heat pipes leading to the location of these LEDs in the pics.
These projectors should have great contrast ratios with the lumen rating being so low.
So, Bohanna, you like business projectors because they have terrible contrast ratios?
As i pointed out several posts above, all 3LCD engines that use separate R/G/B LEDs for illumination, just like a standard bulb that splits the color into R/G/B and send each color to a separate LCD chip, MUST HAVE THE LIGHT SOURCE BEHIND EACH LCD PANEL ! It's known as a transmissive technology, vs. reflective which is used for LCOS and DMD chips...
According to the test of the Samsung FM10 at Cine4Home, which use a similar arrangement of 3LCD + three Luminus Devices LEDs for illumination, it measured very close to its spec of 1.000 lumens, the reason apparently being that the LEDs in a 3LCD engine have to be on a constant state of maximum output and do not possibly offer any type of "dynamic contrast" as is the case with one-chip DMD projectors from Texas Instruments, which allow for dynamic contrast as the LEDs can be dimmed at will depending on image content.
If i understood the German~English translation, that could be the reason why a 3LCD + LEDs projector such as the CRE X1000 does put out indeed 800 lumens, and after calibration it wouldn't surprise me if it measured at 650~700 lumens...
It's unfortunate that on the pictures sent by CRE they didn't think of moving aside the two circuit layer boards on top of most of the unit and turned the projector ON so that we could see that elegant arrangement of three bright R/G/B LEDs shining behind each LCD panel. Such a picture is shown for the Samsung FM10 review.
Now, as for the CRE X1000 having a contrast ratio of 100.000:1, that's another story that i doubt very much; I would expect it to be more in line with tested pjs using Epson D7 LCD chips, which consistently measure about 2.500:1 natively, without the use of any dynamic contrast feature such as dynamic iris.
I thought DLP had better rates, however, I have had multiple machines with the same size bulb but very differnt output even with the same light path technology
wow, I'd have to see at least 2 pro reviews to consider spending that on a blind purchase. I'd want to know D65 lumen output, measured contrast ratios, etc.
If they sent a review sample to Art @ projectorreviews and projector central, it could open a channel for sales in the US market if it turns out to be admirable performer compared to similarly priced UHP projectors.
I still want to know who their target market is at this price point, this isn't cheap, even for the growing 'middle class' chinese market.
Have fun explaining that one action, I control the thing here, but I turned off email alerts that go to certain sites. HRs problem, not mine, long as they are blocked I don't care if people try to go there.
Of course the LED's are mounted behind the Panels,,, What I was asking was are they filtered or Mirrored before they are shot through the prism assembly?? Put another way,,,, is there any Kind of Buffer or polarizer between the actually LED and the LCD Panel and if so is it replaceable?
The standard LCD projectors currently rely in a 65K white light that is filtered and split into three main colors like the original three gun/tube projectors. The convergence happens within the Prism assembly before its shot out the lens and on to the screen which makes pure BLACKS difficult to reproduce since you are using a WHITE source. I am assuming that the RGB LEDs produce a better level of dark colors since they are not as white as the conventional light source .
Tactics like this usually indicative of a sales pitch.
Lets do the math:
The top rated Mitsubishi 4000 is $1100 vs. $1768. A 3000hr bulb is $325.
So a consumer could buy the 4000 with two replacement bulbs (9000 hours) for approximately the same price as the CRE. The 4000 has a two year immediate replacement warranty. So there is no risk. New products from new companies lack refinement, like blacks actually being blue.
Actually most people will want a 120" 3D picture after they see one in person.
So I will probably never need to buy a replacement bulb. That is an immediate $668 savings with better performance.
CRE light bulbs are $50-55 at Home Depot. Sam's has similar ones for $19. LEDs are still way too expensive in front projectors.
However the competition from this projector will force the rather exorbitant LED projector prices we see today. So the future looks very bright indeed, but not just yet. Probably two more years till the LED technology trickles down cost effectively to front projector technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 /forum/post/20539026
Have fun explaining that one action, I control the thing here, but I turned off email alerts that go to certain sites. HRs problem, not mine, long as they are blocked I don't care if people try to go there.
Hopefully I will fly under the radar. One of the previous supervisor was repremanded for spending 6 hour on cameltoe dot com, lol. We all received a written warning about not visiting adult sites though.
I still cant believe how skeptical people are! the x1000 has surpassed & surprised all of us. Sealed Optics, No UV or Infrared, Mstar, epson D7, Luminus Pt-120, an impressive looking cooling system, energy efficient & its full 1080p! Someone for gods sake give an x1000 to a place you trust for review & let us see finally how this actually compares to the mainstream brands. Sealed Optics is Huge!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk /forum/post/20539120
$1750 is accurate (includes shipping).
I still cant believe how skeptical people are! the x1000 has surpassed & surprised all of us. Sealed Optics, No UV or Infrared, Mstar, epson D7, Luminus Pt-120, an impressive looking cooling system, energy efficient & its full 1080p! Someone for gods sake give an x1000 to a place you trust for review & let us see finally how this actually compares to the mainstream brands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk /forum/post/20539120
$1750 is accurate (includes shipping).
I still cant believe how skeptical people are! the x1000 has surpassed & surprised all of us. Sealed Optics, No UV or Infrared, Mstar, epson D7, Luminus Pt-120, an impressive looking cooling system, energy efficient & its full 1080p! Someone for gods sake give an x1000 to a place you trust for review & let us see finally how this actually compares to the mainstream brands.
Now we have pictures & can see some of the processes perhaps we could compile a second round of questions?
I`ll add a couple of good points you guys have raised so far
1. Is there any Kind of Buffer or polarizer between the actually LED and the LCD Panel and if so is it replaceable?
2. Is it possible to see x1000 with the two circuit layer boards removed from on top the unit and turn the projector ON so that we could see that elegant arrangement of three bright R/G/B LEDs shining behind each LCD panel.
3. Does the projector offer a V stretch mode (for CIH Anamorphic lenses)?
4. more of your thoughts here.
I resent that hifi, i wonder if people actually read the posts,, i`m confirming what mcaugusto said to clarfy costs this isnt a 1k projector, as verge has suggested, + in that same sentence youve quoted to me, whats wrong with me wanting to see how it compares to other brands by being reviewed by a trusted site like avsforum? (a site you trust.. hello!)
Everyone has to start out at the bottom and work their way up. CRE is a relatively unknown company, but who knows, they could be the next big name in projector manufacturing ten years from now. I can say they do have some big balls to attempt to produce a projector in todays competative market. I give them kudos for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk /forum/post/20539175
Bohanna again raises some good questions.
Now we have pictures & can see some of the processes perhaps we could compile a second round of questions?
I`ll add a couple of good points you guys have raised so far
1. Is there any Kind of Buffer or polarizer between the actually LED and the LCD Panel and if so is it replaceable?
2. Is it possible to see x1000 with the two circuit layer boards removed from on top the unit and turn the projector ON so that we could see that elegant arrangement of three bright R/G/B LEDs shining behind each LCD panel.
3. Does the projector offer a V stretch mode (for CIH Anamorphic lenses)?
4. more of your thoughts here.
I resent that hifi, i wonder if people actually read the posts,, i`m confirming what mcaugusto said to clarfy costs this isnt a 1k projector, as verge has suggested,
This is one of the things i feared happening in this forum,
high end projector users, whos spent a fortune, who have laughed at the appearance of the x1000. only to reveal this projector is packing more, & doing it for less.
Their fears that this upstart PJ could devalue the high end market, are causing people to get personal here.
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