CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 3 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP > CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys?
donaldk's Avatar donaldk 10:35 AM 03-28-2011
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

BTW, i don't think that Epson any longer manufactures LCD chips with native resolution lower than 1920x1080 pixels, AFAIK...

Really, so Epson started sourcing the chips in its XGA projectors, externally?!

donaldk's Avatar donaldk 10:39 AM 03-28-2011
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Thank you for your answers, sellmejunk.
You just gave us another hint of the "innards" of this pj by mentioning "Pixelworks", which is a highly respected manufacturer of video processing chips, up there with Abt, Anchor Bay, HQV Realta/Reon, Marvell, etc; So that's another very encouraging point concerning the quality of parts used.
So far i see native 1920x1080 Epson D7 LCD chips + Luminus Devices PT-120 LED chipset + Pixelworks video processor, all currently near or top-of-the-line electronics.
What i am most interested now is how well put together are the input/output connectors AND the pixel alignment for all three LCD chips displaying an onscreen grid test pattern, especially considering that these pjs are being sold and shipped individually from China, with all the rough handling and banging that implies.

Hollywood Quality Video isn't that an old and now disbanded processor?
donaldk's Avatar donaldk 01:13 PM 03-28-2011
And did you get it to display 1080P? No mention of resolution in the PDF manual.
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 02:23 PM 03-28-2011
Its good theres a buzz about this technology, ive been looking to get a new TV/projector since October 2010, i nearly bought a epson tw2200 but held off, then looked at getting an LED tv i saw the Sharp Quatron 811E with the New yellow colour palette.
The 85watts it uses to run a 46" inch screen was my top choice.
Sadly once you own a projector, & having to settle tiny 46" picture , aint gonna cut it.

Yeh so did a search for LED projector & saw the specs coupled with epson partnership, this has to be a winner.

After looking on the web to see if someone had reviewed it, i couldnt find nothing on it, leading me to this forum & more speculation.

Deciding to take the plunge parting with the cash was a nervous process but now i`m pleased to show the results.

overall it pretty darn good, yeh theres some noticable lines sometimes with gradients, barring but its not noticable, anyways i`m not too techy & havent got a mitsubishi or epson to compare it too.

Heres a clip hopefully will reveal the answer your questions.

(Projector has been running for 4 hours at the time of this clip. Yes it gives out some heat i would guess just above 40 degrees Celcius )

watch the clip here
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 02:31 PM 03-28-2011
Perhaps if i buy a decent HDMI cable it would improve the picture, i`m just using the HDMI cable that came with it, it anyone recommend an affordable one with excellent quality, or is it worth a high end cable?
action_jackson's Avatar action_jackson 02:39 PM 03-28-2011
Thanks for posting the video. I see some banding on the right side of the image, is this noticeable? Most around here use cables from Monoprice or Bluejean as they are good quality at reasonable prices.
MCaugusto's Avatar MCaugusto 02:55 PM 03-28-2011
donaldk >>> After i wrote that quote i did check Epson's website and i noticed the $700 pj with LCD panels that have lower XGA native resolution; I imagined that Epson might be simply trying to get rid of older tech...
In the owner's manual there are what appears to be five different "classes" of projectors (???) with the first listed as having "Hollywood Quality Video", the second "Pixelworks" and the other three "MstarSemiconductor"; Since we know that "Pixelworks" applies to a video processing chip and it comes second on the list, could it be that "Hollywood Quality Video" (first on the list) means "HQV/Reon" video processor ? I wish as usual that Chinese translators would do a better job butchering the English language...
As someone else pointed out here, I also wonder whether or not this pj is using the brand new line of reflective LCD chips from Epson (essentially LCOS) that was released last fall, but i doubt that very much due to cost and availability; However, the owner's manual lists a contrast ratio of 100.000:1 (of course i know that's just another senseless contrast figure statement) and i wonder, again, did Epson ever list any of its pjs that use standard LCD D7 0.74" chips as having contrast measurements of 100.000:1 ? Perhaps last year's model ? Of course such high figure would mean the use of a dynamic iris, which Epson always used in the past.
By listing such high figure it would seem that this pj employ some kind of dynamic LED chipset control similar to a mechanical iris which would raise/lower brightness to match the onscreen image, similar to what is used in the Samsung F10M 3LCD/LED pj, and if that's the case here, then how good is it ? Does it "pump" the image brightness noticeably or not ?
sellmejunk, where are you again ? We need your input(s)....
PS : sellmejunk, are you projecting on a screen or a wall ? If screen, do you know the screen gain ? How big is the image ? Thanks
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 03:23 PM 03-28-2011
Monkey Island 5 on the CRE X1000 Its dim graphics as it evening setting,

Click here for clip

The projector screen is matt white 1:1 gain
looks just like this one on ebay
The only thing is ..the surface is vinyl and is textured rather than being pure smooth like paper. i`ll like to upgrade but i fear a decent screen would run into alot more cash. right now i gotta save up some cash, i`m skint! spent out, after this purchase.
Will be awhile till i can aford a blu ray drive for my PC & a Blu ray image test disc suggested to me, but its on my list
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 03:28 PM 03-28-2011
The CRE X1000 is as far as it can go in my tiny place, its 10ft 8inches away from the Screen, and the current size of the picture measured diagonally is 93.5 to 94 inches roughly
rovingtravler's Avatar rovingtravler 03:51 PM 03-28-2011
I am sorry but there is no way that is 3000 lumen on a 94 inch screen not to mention if they are over driving the PH120 to 160 as per their manual they would not last the 20,000 that is recommended much less the 60,000 this company quotes.
I have a LED projector and have seen the following ones Runco Q-750, Q-1500, D-73d, Sim2 Mico 40, Mico 50.

Even the over driven EE Tru Vue Vango only makes 1000 lumens.

My next question is why would you use a Red LED behind a red LCD, B on B, and G on G? This makes no sense whatsoever. The LED is creating the color... a very good color. The LCD panel would be a lower quality not as pure color.

I can see them using 3 PH 120 white LEDs one behind each panel, but that is it. Also the video you posted seems to have very large pixels for a 1080p projector. They seem to be much larger than my 1080p on a 120 inch screen.

How many mm wide and high are they.


I am just wondering how they did this for so cheap when the cheapest and highest output LED projector right now is over $10K and only 1000 Lumens
rovingtravler's Avatar rovingtravler 03:53 PM 03-28-2011
Interesting did anybody try to download the manual from Sellmejunk's link? It is a setupfile and has a virus in it. Or at least that is what AVG told me.

Interesting that all the information is a quote the luminus Phlatlight page, but no projector has been able to output near 3000 in real application.

I stand corrected about not using them behind the panels. Luminus says you can. I have not seen it yet... This might be the first LCD as you said, but it would be less than 1000lumens probably closer to 400-800 as that is what DLP is getting. I would think the LCD would reduce the output even more.

Has anybody else been able to find anything about this company or pj?
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 04:07 PM 03-28-2011
In this clip,
The backround is a gradient grey to white u will see a thin lines around the TV box when i drag it.
Dark colors look alot better but seems to struggle with the lighter gradients
In the second picture in the same clip its more noticeable

Heres the clip
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 04:26 PM 03-28-2011
AVG`s adblocker,
The reason i chose the name sell me junk, was that i bought a 2nd hand projector years ago on ebay but didnt promise what it was to be true.
I have lost money buying junk before on a number of occasions, this CRE X1000 was a huge gamble, so when Windows 7 didnt recognise the this new tech projector, i had a moment of panic figuring i may have conned.
One of the next items i`m after could also be junk, its a gadget 2 in one dust grabber using some wierd
tech to Produces approx. 100 trillion high-density negative ions per second. Its proably junk, but i want it!
afineman's Avatar afineman 04:46 PM 03-28-2011

I have to give you credit for coughing up the money and buying the unknown.

But with out a BD player/disk those artifacts may be a result of your video card or the connection. IN NO WAY am I suggesting you are doing anything wrong, I'm just reminding the gallery, this is what the projector produces using SMJs set up.

If I wasn't waiting on pins and needles for the Qumi you would of light a fire under me. if I were the gallery, I would e-mail this company and get them to loan one to a good reviewer, or someone if is close to SMJ invite him over (if you have better equipment).

SMJ, nice job, you've got stones

MCaugusto's Avatar MCaugusto 04:56 PM 03-28-2011
rovingtravler >>> The Samsung F10M, which uses a similar arrangement as this pj, namely 3LCD + LEDs from Luminus Devices, was measured by Projector as putting out 953 lumens in "bright mode" and 762 lumens in "movie mode"...
The reason for such high light output is because, unlike a single chip DLP pj which needs the three separate LEDs to synch to the imaging chip in constant ON/OFF pulses of light, three chips pjs such as this one do not need any synching, the three LEDs are ON continuously, thus putting out their full lumen potential.
BTW : i agree with afineman's comment; Last year i "splurged" and bought a Panasonic blu-ray player (highly praised for its picture and video processor) for $105 and the picture for both HD AND SD dvds is the best i've ever seen on my screen, truly a bargain investment in video equipment.
Insofar as HDMI cables, i would stay with MonoPrice as recommended with the caveat that when ordering it make sure it's not as thick and heavy as the one i bought; I am all for thickness in A/V cables for better isolation, but there is too much of a good thing...
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 05:21 PM 03-28-2011
just so u know monkey island does indeed look dark, as the hdmi colors were different from the VGA colors i had used from fiddling with the projectors settings, i havent found that right blend of technicolor yet.
HDMI mode grays out hue controls also.
I must fiddle with catalyist colors and the PJ.

Can i ask whats the best setting for HDMI? cataylst offers me these options :

RGB 4:4:4 Pixel fomat studio limited
RGB 4:4:4 Pixel format PC Full RGB
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 05:51 PM 03-28-2011
Proably a better clip to watch less dark

Things to take in consideration, my projector screen suxs, it has a some nasty moire effect from being motorized up and down.
2ndly color i havent played much still need to find the right balance, some of my applications on PC look better than others. I.e monkey island didnt match the colors of my desktop
3rdly the clip is badly made by me on an aiptek cheapy 1080p DV cam recording in h.264 AVC, at 1440 x 1080.
4rthly Camera is shakey i got it set to slideshow so it may fast, better to pause bits you wish to speculate about.
when i get close to the screen i am trying to use the camera macro mode switch, so i dont know if thats why the pixels may appear bigger, but i have counted them before to be 27-30 in a verticle/horizontal inch.
I feel it maybe hard to distinguish between the poor screen pattern and the artifacts, you should definitly see the vertical bars mainly on white colors and some flesh tones. otherwise on some parts of the clip certain color fleshtones appear to have no bars! yes its tricky,, watch carefully..

Its a bit long /& blurry, but hopefuly enough to satisfy everyones opinions.

Blah blah heres the clip
donaldk's Avatar donaldk 06:01 PM 03-28-2011
No, Epson keeps putting out new XGA projectors, including bigger ones, Epson is very strong in the presentation market, and the education market, so not clearing old technology, XGA is still strong in those markets.

Misconvergence, at 1.50 in the first clip, not sure what the vertical lines are, they are evenly spaced, and straight, so no moire, but there are no horizontal lines, as expected when seeing screendoor effect.

Boy that fan is loud, and has an annoying whine/buzz.

Last clip, reminds me of my first times fooling around with CRT FP, at least you could toe in those big lenses, with a digital you're stuck with the factury set-up.
eat meat's Avatar eat meat 06:10 PM 03-28-2011
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

No Epson keeps putting out new XGA projectors, including bigger ones, Epson is very strong in the presentation market, and the education market, so not clearing old technology, XGA is still strong in those markets.

Exactly,when some one points to epson as being the biggest seller,yea they sell tons of high lumen 350$ dollar PJs to schools, ect., Who can sell a brand new 2000lumen 800x600 lcd PJ for that price.
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 06:34 PM 03-28-2011
Rest assured the noisy fan isnt the projector fan, lol it from my equipment that i had from before it looks like a water cooler makes alot of noise because itmakes water from air mositure then is 7 times filtered, yeh dont drink the tap water, seriously.
CaptNkllm's Avatar CaptNkllm 07:18 PM 03-28-2011
so are you satisfied with it? Do you feel that it was money well spent? any downers on your end so far?

Are you happy ? ?

rovingtravler's Avatar rovingtravler 07:35 PM 03-28-2011

Thanks for clarifing how the LED are implimented in the LCD config. That is great that they can get more power from them by leaving them on and then using the LCD more as a shutter to modulate the light.
action_jackson's Avatar action_jackson 07:37 PM 03-28-2011
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

My next question is why would you use a Red LED behind a red LCD, B on B, and G on G? This makes no sense whatsoever. The LED is creating the color... a very good color. The LCD panel would be a lower quality not as pure color.

I can see them using 3 PH 120 white LEDs one behind each panel, but that is it.

A regular LCD projector uses special mirrors to split white light into the three primary colors and direct them to three identical LCD panels. The LCD panels are not special for each color.

In this projector there is no need to have the special mirrors because the colors are already individually produced.
sellmejunk's Avatar sellmejunk 10:15 PM 03-28-2011
The upside is its perfect for those on a budget, the cost to replace a regualr 5000h lamp on the big brands can be a small fortune.
I am hoping the componants are sturdy enough to outlast the bulb,so if this can last me 5 years its money well spent.

i Worked it out, even if i was to use the projector based on lamp life for 13 hours a day it should last me about 7.5 years, yes i know thats the theory, in practice who knows.

Hopefully as long as i keep it dust free giving it plenty of air i doubt i`ll have a problem.

This is definitly for the budget market, the controls and setting are pretty basic no frills, whilst its possible to change Red Blue Green color settings on vga, HDMI setting does not; giving only options for saturation, contrast, brightness & crispness, (the VGA mode has no Crispness) HDMI mode has 3 predifined picture settings cool, warm & normal. User setting is also here but for HDMI it ony saves your user contrast, brightness & saturation + crispness. There are no other color menus to access.

I am pretty happy with the CRE X1000. considering the last projector i had was only 800x600 lol,

i took a picture with the camera to show the whole width of the screen image, then tried to photo the window of the hut guybrush is standing near

I am standing Near the projector 10ft 8inches away from screen. The screen size is just under 94 inches diagonal.

I am standing about perhaps 12 -16 inches away from screen. The camera got too much light but clear to capture some pixels.
action_jackson's Avatar action_jackson 12:21 AM 03-29-2011
Since you don't have access to a blu-ray player or calibration disk, you may want to check out this thread

Here you will find downloads for an mp4 version of the AVS HD 709 calibration disk that you can use.
MCaugusto's Avatar MCaugusto 07:30 AM 03-29-2011
sellmejunk >>> How about taking a picture about 4' away from the screen as "mid-range" comparison ?
When you took the picture 12"~16" away from screen, were you also zooming ? It appears to have a significant amount of either panel misalignment or chromatic aberration horizontally, vertically and diagonally, but that could be so because of zooming so close to the screen...
And how about a picture of a movie with some extra dark scene + bright highlights + human face to show us some good shots for contrast, brightness and flesh ?
MCaugusto's Avatar MCaugusto 07:45 AM 03-29-2011
rovingtravler >>> If you're interested in this technology of 3LCD/LED you should check out the review of the Samsung F10M at Cine4Home; They show, what i would describe at current "stage of events" for digital pjs, amazing internal pictures of how Samsung designed and assembled fully enclosed LCD panels (dustless ), internal cooling pathways, three Luminus Devices mounted behind each LCD panel, etc, etc...
The reviewer finished by wondering why Samsung doesn't release a similar pj but use native 1920x180 microdisplay, and now, as if on cue, this CRE X1000 appears !
Bohanna's Avatar Bohanna 08:44 AM 03-29-2011
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post

A regular LCD projector uses special mirrors to split white light into the three primary colors and direct them to three identical LCD panels. The LCD panels are not special for each color.

In this projector there is no need to have the special mirrors because the colors are already individually produced.

Hey Action. There is a HUGE question about the panels being identical as the panel themselves are marked R,, G & B and listed with different part numbers. Most Techs will all tell you that they are different. You are correct about the mirrors and lens for splitting and channeling the light. The light is then filtered through R G & B polarizers before it gets shot through the three Panels.. This projector seems to bypass most of the conventional design light paths and go directly to the polarizers and then through the LCD panels.
Like I have said in earlier posts this is a design that has had many in the modded DIY groups interested in to overcome the single retro-fit LED dimness problem. This unit seems to be a down and dirty no frills hybrid. There is NO question in my mind that it is nowhere near 3000 Lumens unless they are talking about shooting a white light at a single close distance target for measuring output.

rovingtravler's Avatar rovingtravler 09:52 AM 03-29-2011

Thanks, I had not read that review there, but many others including the Vivitek LED. I used to have a Proxima 9240 back in the day. I opened it up when it died and took it apart to see how it really worked.

Luminus says 3000 lumens. Samsung says 1000. I would bet is still 100% white light at, at least D65 probably 8K kelvin. or calibrated down to 600-800. But a good start and for the price a good deal.
Verge2's Avatar Verge2 10:31 AM 03-29-2011
So these use a separate rgb LEDs for each panel.

So much for getting rid of rainbow effect
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