Official Mitsubishi hc4000 ONLY Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2857 Old 05-25-2011, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

So the 16:9 image would be smaller in a 2.35 screen setup with the HC4000, and you will have black bars on the LH/RH side of the screen.

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Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Smaller than what?

Smaller than a 2.35 image. But I know what you're getting at, the 16:9 image is less wide (smaller) than the 2.35 image, but the height is the same.

It's smaller 'generally'.
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post #272 of 2857 Old 05-25-2011, 08:49 PM
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You can plug in all your dimensions/screen gain and click on 2.35 aspect ratio to get the estimated light output along with the screen size and projector distance using Projector Central's Projection Calculator Pro. It really helped me figure out where to mount my HC4000 as well as deciding on the best screen size and top drop needed to do my poor man's CIH with the zoomed off screen material (Letterbox bars/Imax footage) shifted above the picture.
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post #273 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 02:36 AM
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Could anyone post some screen shots from a PS3, 360, or PC game from the HC4000? I've already ordered mine but it won't be here for another 3 weeks so I'm jonesing for some shots of it in action. I'll repay the favor by posting screenshots of my own once the time comes.
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post #274 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan M View Post

Could anyone post some screen shots from a PS3, 360, or PC game from the HC4000? I've already ordered mine but it won't be here for another 3 weeks so I'm jonesing for some shots of it in action. I'll repay the favor by posting screenshots of my own once the time comes.

3 weeks?! Where did you order it from?
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post #275 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 07:12 AM
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I did some input lag testing on the HC4000. If anyone is wondering it has between 30ms - 50ms of lag time/ 2-3 frames behind. The lag is not really noticeable to me. I tested both HDMI and VGA on 1920x1080, both were about the same.

Tested against a 22" CRT
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post #276 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

You can plug in all your dimensions/screen gain and click on 2.35 aspect ratio to get the estimated light output along with the screen size and projector distance using Projector Central's Projection Calculator Pro. It really helped me figure out where to mount my HC4000 as well as deciding on the best screen size and top drop needed to do my poor man's CIH with the zoomed off screen material (Letterbox bars/Imax footage) shifted above the picture.

Thanks StevenC56, that is a super easy to use calculator!

Currtard: Why is your brightness calculated so low? When I use the calculator at projector central it says 12fl, could it be wrong?

Thanks
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post #277 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 07:43 AM
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Also, is the Mits HC4000 the only projector in this price range that has the 2.35 option?

(Hope this isn't a really stupid question, this is all new to me!)
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post #278 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhard77 View Post

Thanks StevenC56, that is a super easy to use calculator!

Currtard: Why is your brightness calculated so low? When I use the calculator at projector central it says 12fl, could it be wrong?

Thanks

Are you calculating for a 2.35 screen? If a 2.35 screen is 53" high, that means it is 124" wide. So since the projector doesn't actually project a 2.35 image, it's projecting a 16:9 image that is 124" wide and 70" high, or a 16:9 diagonal of 142". I'm not sure how ProjCent calculates their ftL if you put in 2.35.

edit: I just tried their calculator, it gives me 9ftL if I do a 142" 16:9 and the same if I do a 124" wide 2.35.
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post #279 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Are you calculating for a 2.35 screen? If a 2.35 screen is 53" high, that means it is 124" wide. So since the projector doesn't actually project a 2.35 image, it's projecting a 16:9 image that is 124" wide and 70" high, or a 16:9 diagonal of 142". I'm not sure how ProjCent calculates their ftL if you put in 2.35.

I just tried their calculator, it gives me 9ftL if I do a 142" 16:9 and the same if I do a 124" wide 2.35.

With the same size screen I am getting 12ftl but, I moved the throw range to the shortest distance about 14.5ft. Which would explain the difference.

Is there a dis-advantage to using the shortest throw range? Wouldn't that just make the image brighter?

edit: I also just realized I changed the screen gain to 1.2, since I am planning on a Jamestown white screen that they advertise as 1.2 gain.
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post #280 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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As the lamp ages, the default fL numbers become almost useless. You don't need that many hours on a LAMP to have a somewhat significant drop in lumens, although the Mits does drop slower than other lamps I've seen.


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post #281 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

3 weeks?! Where did you order it from?

Special ordered it from a brick and mortar where I live. They said 3 weeks at the longest. It will probably be faster judging by my purchases with them in the past. They gave me a great price though and no interest financing.
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post #282 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhard77 View Post
Is there a dis-advantage to using the shortest throw range? Wouldn't that just make the image brighter?
All things being equal (screen size, etc.):
> Focus/image uniformity/chromatic aberration are usually worse at the extreme zoom ranges. Though, this might be unnoticeable watching movies from seating position (usually is unnoticeable).
> Contrast can take a hit. How much depends on the PJ model. Don't think anyone has done a contrast measure difference on the Mits.
> Blacks will be worse of course, since you're gaining brightness
> This is more subjective, but the PJ will be more in the middle of the room, so sticking out more in the room, closer to your setting position (depending), so noise can be more noticeable.
> ?? Did I forget anything?
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post #283 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra889 View Post
I did some input lag testing on the HC4000. If anyone is wondering it has between 30ms - 50ms of lag time/ 2-3 frames behind. The lag is not really noticeable to me. I tested both HDMI and VGA on 1920x1080, both were about the same.

Tested against a 22" CRT
Thanks Cobra! Was hoping someone would test it. The 30ms - 50 ms seems to be about as minimal lag as any others out there. Have you played any 1st person shooters on it?

I'll be coming from a RPTV and for gaming I have been teetering back and forth between the HC4000 and BenQ w1100 (and even considering Coder's Sanyo Z4000). All appear to have little lag. This definately helps with my decision.

"When did t.v. watching become so complicated?"
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post #284 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhard77 View Post
With the same size screen I am getting 12ftl but, I moved the throw range to the shortest distance about 14.5ft. Which would explain the difference.

Is there a dis-advantage to using the shortest throw range? Wouldn't that just make the image brighter?

edit: I also just realized I changed the screen gain to 1.2, since I am planning on a Jamestown white screen that they advertise as 1.2 gain.
Yeah, I used default throw range and gain, so that explains the difference.

I would say if you're going with a big 2.35 screen, use the short throw as you said. You will want max brightness since your image will be the equivalent of a gigantic 16:9 one in terms of light.
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post #285 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
All things being equal (screen size, etc.):
> Focus/image uniformity/chromatic aberration are usually worse at the extreme zoom ranges. Though, this might be unnoticeable watching movies from seating position (usually is unnoticeable).
> Contrast can take a hit. How much depends on the PJ model. Don't think anyone has done a contrast measure difference on the Mits.
> Blacks will be worse of course, since you're gaining brightness
> This is more subjective, but the PJ will be more in the middle of the room, so sticking out more in the room, closer to your setting position (depending), so noise can be more noticeable.
> ?? Did I forget anything?
I'll be throwing from only 12' away in a completely light controlled room - hope to do around a 110" picture. Being this close, would you suggest a grey screen for better blacks?

"When did t.v. watching become so complicated?"
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post #286 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
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I'll be throwing from only 12' away in a completely light controlled room - hope to do around a 110" picture. Being this close, would you suggest a grey screen for better blacks?
Well, a gray screen will always give better blacks, regardless of screen size, but you'll also lose some brights. At smaller screen sizes you can sacrifice brights, but at larger sizes you can't or shouldn't.

@ 110" I would Not go with a negative gain gray. Blacks will be better, and brightness might be 'ok' at first (new lamp), but after a few hundred hrs you might think otherwise.

A 1.0 gain white will probably be fine. Unless you want plasma popping brightness. Otherwise if you'd rather have that film movie theater experience (not TV), 1.0 gain will probably be fine.
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post #287 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I'm experimenting a bit and am very serious about going into the HT business as initially just a side business, then see where it goes before giving up my day job.
They say find something you like to do. I'm going to try to get some of these manufacturers to send me some review units.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

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post #288 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra889 View Post

I did some input lag testing on the HC4000. If anyone is wondering it has between 30ms - 50ms of lag time/ 2-3 frames behind. The lag is not really noticeable to me. I tested both HDMI and VGA on 1920x1080, both were about the same.

Tested against a 22" CRT

Good info! Thanks.
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post #289 of 2857 Old 05-26-2011, 11:14 PM
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I guess I'm experimenting a bit and am very serious about going into the HT business as initially just a side business, then see where it goes before giving up my day job.

There may not be any $$ to be made here, but as an idea/example there is an AVS member here ChadB who is an ISF calibrator, but also decided to start a site that charts/ranks/rates almost everything he calibrates>>>

http://hdtvbychadb.com/reviews.htm (scroll down a little for the chart)

He either doesn't do projectors or just hasn't ranked them. He usually waits until he's calibrated a few of the same model flatscreens before he decides to rank them.

Obviously the real job here is his calibration business, but his presence on the forum here (and other forums), plus his review page probably get him additional business for sure.

Here's the AVS thread ChadB started about his site: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1173351

It's the one thing I haven't seen in a PJ review site, the comparison ranking chart that ChadB put together. It would be nice to see one for projectors
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post #290 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 02:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I will try to get my remote DIY zoom finished, if I can mass produce it for different models of projectors, then I can probably sell it as an add-on. Obviously that's a VERY niche product that isn't going to make anyone rich for sure.

I really want to compare the Benq w1200 with the Mits hc4000. Also want to compare a JVC RS40 to a DLP (going to be impossible to get an Rs40 as a review unit).


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

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post #291 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I will try to get my remote DIY zoom finished, if I can mass produce it for different models of projectors, then I can probably sell it as an add-on. Obviously that's a VERY niche product that isn't going to make anyone rich for sure.

I really want to compare the Benq w1200 with the Mits hc4000. Also want to compare a JVC RS40 to a DLP (going to be impossible to get an Rs40 as a review unit).

Coder i respect you a lot. But pls dont quit yr Job for this. Projectors are not a popular electronic item everybody purchases. If it were a Tv, i would say go ahead since every house hold has atleast a couple or they r planning to buy. But projectors na na. I myself a programmer like you and i will say you will never find another full time job with much flexible and leisure time and not to mention the easy 6 figure salaries. Its lot of work at times, but most of the year, it aint. Just my 2 cents.
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post #292 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 09:25 AM
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Wouldn't a projector that doesn't have powered zoom also not have powered lens shift, and wouldn't that be needed for the remote zoom to be useful?
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post #293 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the lens shift will be part of the automated design. It's going to be auto focus, auto zoom, and auto lens shift. I have the design finished on paper, but am still looking for a NON-HTPC controller board to control the stepper motor that accepts an IR signal that isn't too expensive (so far these are really expensive). May have to settle for USB plug-in to HTPC design, we'll see.
I have some ideas on how to handle it for projectors without lens shift by using some motorized mounting mods. Essentially I don't plan to attempt all this design work myself, which is the beauty of the Internet age, the information is all there if you know how to find it. If my designs fail, then at the very least I'll have had fun doing it.

@SrJune
Not quitting my job, I agree about projectors being niche and hard to make money. I am not set on keeping the business only to projectors, only if I can get enough work in this small segment will I not expand into other segments. I'm reading articles about the business and which sides are profitable. I may never go into the installer side, that is pretty low margin, and takes a lot of equipment to do commerical installations, I'm looking at other angles. I'm just running numbers right now.

I'm pretty sure a reviews site is where I will start and then launching this add-on focus/zoom/lens system if I can design it correctly. Then go from there.


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post #294 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 11:49 AM
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Still loving my HC4000.... saw die hard 3 on it last night after the game.
Such an awesome picture.
I start moving into my new home today.. so gonna have to unplug her for a few days Hope to have her up by tuesday NBA finals game 1!

Anyway enjoy yours this weekend guys!
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My room is 22 x 22 with 7'9" ceilings, I want to do a 2:35 screen and I like DLP( i think my sammy LED DLP 61" has the perfrect picture for me) I think this prj will be for me if the offset isn't too much to overcome but.....

I'm trying to use the calculators but I'm having trouble figuring out what the max distance the bottom of my screen would be from the floor. Let's say the prj is ceiling mounted, 14' from the screen, and I'm looking at a 115" screen diag (106" wide, 44 tall")

I must be missing something...... can anyone point me in the right direction?
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post #296 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaphook View Post

My room is 22 x 22 with 7'9" ceilings, I want to do a 2:35 screen and I like DLP( i think my sammy LED DLP 61" has the perfrect picture for me) I think this prj will be for me if the offset isn't too much to overcome but.....

I'm trying to use the calculators but I'm having trouble figuring out what the max distance the bottom of my screen would be from the floor. Let's say the prj is ceiling mounted, 14' from the screen, and I'm looking at a 115" screen diag (106" wide, 44 tall")

I must be missing something...... can anyone point me in the right direction?

I come up with a screen height of 45" on a 106" wide 2.35 screen. Main problem I see is that with a ceiling height of 7'9", even if you mount the PJ very close to the ceiling the bottom of the screen will be only 14-15" from the ground.
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post #297 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 03:24 PM
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Mine is 14" from the ground and it's awesome. If you don't have multiple rows of seating, it's perfect. Your eye level is supposed to be 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen.
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post #298 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Mine is 14" from the ground and it's awesome. If you don't have multiple rows of seating, it's perfect. Your eye level is supposed to be 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen.

Good point-My set up is 2 rows with the rear (primary) seating on a 14" riser, so that's what I was thinking. I've read that quite a few custom installers don't like the screen that low even for single level HT's. To each his own/YMMV, so it's personal preference when it comes down to it.
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post #299 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaphook View Post

My room is 22 x 22 with 7'9" ceilings, I want to do a 2:35 screen and I like DLP( i think my sammy LED DLP 61" has the perfrect picture for me) I think this prj will be for me if the offset isn't too much to overcome but.....

I'm trying to use the calculators but I'm having trouble figuring out what the max distance the bottom of my screen would be from the floor. Let's say the prj is ceiling mounted, 14' from the screen, and I'm looking at a 115" screen diag (106" wide, 44 tall")

I must be missing something...... can anyone point me in the right direction?

If you mounted it flush against your ceiling, at the screen dimensions you gave, you could move the 2.35:1 image up electronically about 7-1/2" (and save it to an "AV memory"), which would put the bottom of your image at about 17"
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post #300 of 2857 Old 05-27-2011, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I find it ODD people buy an LCD projector just because they would have had to use 2-4 notches of keystone, but this projector still beats MOST LCD in sharpness even after you use keystone.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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