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Official Mitsubishi hc4000 ONLY Thread

299K views 3K replies 274 participants last post by  kevin.veneman 
#1 ·
A brand new thread for discussing ONLY the Mits hc4000.
 
#477 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman /forum/post/20553426


Well, to be fair, they can't sell the PJ as 'new' anymore. So what would you pay for a used PJ?


10-15% restocking is probably fair for a product that hasn't been opened/used (hence, 'restocking').

I agree 10-15% is fair, its the extra 5% I was having a problem with but I understand, they are a business and are trying to make money. Electronics Expo service was good and projector came double-boxed, arrived in perfect condition and in 2 days.


Mike
 
#478 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy /forum/post/20553433


Fleaman, when you saw the Benq at Fry's did you get a good viewing of it?

Did the contrast look questionable or the image look washed out at all?

.

It was difficult to make any assessment.


For one, I couldn't turn all the lights off. I got all the main lights out except for a couple of cans near the screen. The cans were sunken into the ceiling, pointing straight down, so it's possible most of their light was not hitting the screen.


The room was basically the size of a small commercial theater, with a screen to match. It must of been 15+ feet in size. The W6000 was in a PJ booth, behind glass that was dirty (hand/finger print smudges). It was impossible to know how many hrs on the lamp, and/or iris position or mode.


That being said, it was impressive that it could light up that whole screen. It wasn't 'bright', but it was watchable. At that size (and or lamp hrs) the blacks seemed ok. Contrast seemed ok. The movie was that animated owl flick, which I don't have to compare. But it didn't have the pop of a pixar blu ray, and at that screen size, I wouldn't expect it to.


I wouldn't of been happy with that image at home, but it would probably be a completely different situation on a smaller screen.


The other thing that shocked me was the size of the unit
I think it's 3x the size of the HC4000.
 
#479 ·
@Fleaman: Thanks for the info.


@Others:

The Benq review is suspended until further notice due to Benq being out of stock on the REFURBs...
 
#480 ·
Update:


I am working with Benq to get a formal review unit, but they said they only have a Benq sp890, however, I'll be just as happy to revew any units. The review correspondence person is going to call me on the phone sometime from Benq, I am also going to try to get a Benq w1100 or w1200 for review.


We'll see how it goes. So far they are at least willing to work with me, even though I am not a "professional" reviewer. I'll update everyone once I know more.
 
#481 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy /forum/post/20551906


I'm going to check out 5 showrooms at this place in 2 weeks as long as I have time between jobs:
http://star-power.com/


I don't know what projectors they have on display though, I'll find out when I get there. Just my luck it'll probably be 5 I've already seen.

Also going to check out a Runco in Denver next month, but the Runco is going to PO me cause I'll want it and it'll cost too much.

Coderguy, if you're running around Dallas to see Starpower you might try to get into Stereo East in Frisco (just north of Dallas). They have several projector rooms but its been a while since I saw what they had up.
http://www.stereoeast.com/?gclid=CNy...FQla7AodixSwMg

Good Luck

Don from Frisco
 
#483 ·
Well the good news is, Benq is hopefully signing me up as an official reviewer. I talked to them on the phone.

They don't have any w6000's right now, but think they can get me a w1200 to review or an sp890, but I'm waiting on her official emails.
 
#484 ·
That's cool, hopefully you'll get the chance to see a w6000 before it is replaced with a newer model. washed out? lol..you're killin me bro. When is the last time you saw a projector considered ultra high contrast washed out?



Per projector reviews the w6000 pretty much obliterates the Sanyo 4000. He did mention the Sanyo is quieter.. that's not surprising though.
 
#485 ·
I'll count on you guys in AVS for giving constructive criticism to help me develop a good review format, it may take a couple of reviews to get it down.

I also need to find a good camera, but I'll post that in a camera forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dswdallas /forum/post/20553681


Coderguy - Starpower's main location is on the tollway in Addison. Last time I was there they had JVC, Mitsubishi (2) and something else. They have good rooms to compare.

Don

Thanks for the info, definitely going to try to make it to all those places if I have time.


.
 
#486 ·
Ok, after playing around with settings on projector and trying all kinds of different material I am happy with image projector is producing now. One thing that was hurting sharpness was that the sharpness control got turned up to 7-8 at the beginning by mistake when I was trying to set something and I just left it and didn't 0 it back out. After setting it back to 0 the sharpness was actually better as it took out some noise that was actually hurting sharpness. The problem that I wasn't seeing the Ansi contrast I was wanting was that the HD material I watched on Directv just didn't stand out as far as the image popping. I watched some scenes from the movie 8 Mile on Starz HD tonight and it had some high ansi contrast scenes that really looked good. My projector does have 1 problem I just have noticed. The lamp counter isn't working. The projector probably has been run a total of 3 hours today and its still at 0. I can live with that as its not worth returning since everything else works perfect. So, this projector is a keeper.


Mike
 
#487 ·
I think the lamp counter starts after either 5 or 10 hours. That is normal I believe.

Good news that you got closer to the image you prefer, I figured something must have been wrong since so few have had negative views of the Mits, even when coming from other DLP's.


Note to others:

My eventual review site will be called "projectorshootouts.com", that is the domain I registered (I will alias it to pjshootouts.com as an ALT for less typing)...
 
#488 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy /forum/post/0


I'll count on you guys in AVS for giving constructive criticism to help me develop the format, it may take a couple of reviews to get it down.

I will try not to be as invisible as some of the other reviewers are, and I'll stay active in the forum.

I also need to find a good camera, but I'll post that in a camera forum.


I'll have to work on my writing style just a bit, Art is a great writer, he is probably the best. I am a really good technical person that is good with detail, so hopefully I can improve my writing style as I go (I'm sure I will). It will be a different thing doing it professionally though, I'm not used to that.

Congrats bro. Good luck
 
#489 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy /forum/post/20554577


I think the lamp counter starts after either 5 or 10 hours. That is normal I believe.

Good news that you got closer to the image you prefer, I figured something must have been wrong since so few have had negative views of the Mits, even when coming from other DLP's.


Note to others:

My eventual review site will be called "projectorshootouts.com", that is the domain I registered (I will alias it to pjshootouts.com as an ALT for less typing)...


Ahhh, that is good to know about the lamp counter. Yeah, my image was flat looking and I was like where is that DLP pop I remember seeing. I watched a variety of HD shows and never got the feeling I was watching a DLP projector and this is by me calibrating brightness and contrast, trying different modes, bc on/off, you name it I messed with that setting. The sharpness control definitely on my setup had a negative effect when not at 0. Now the only thing I will need to do is set grayscale once the lamp gets some hours on it but the whites already look pretty white and the blacks are pretty black so it might not need much of a calibration. I was judging the projector from firing it up right out of the box and calibrating right away as well and now after 5 hours or so the lamp actually appears brighter and image is more to my liking so I know they say lamp has a break in period but with all of the projectors I have had I have never had one where the image doesn't look that good out of the box but then after a few hours on it, it looks this much better.....or I could be crazy...lol


Mike
 
#490 ·
What you are describing sounds more like default calibration content favoritism. With any projector that isn't perfectly calibrated (and almost none are OTB, even if the Mits is close in some ways), it will introduce BIAS often only noticeable on certain content.


It is more than likely what you were watching then as compared to what you are watching now because of your calibration favoring one over the other. Although even a few hours on a new lamp can shift color quite a bit. The Mits generally has too much RED in the image initially.


For instance, I can create a dip on the gamma curve so that certain scenes are barely affected while others are affected greatly.


With the Mits OTB calibration, some content looks almost as good as D65, but other content will still show you that the Mits isn't quite perfectly accurate until you calibrate. Most, but not all, skin tones are pretty good OTB.


The point of a D65 calibration is so that content looks as it supposed to, for better or for worse, or more importantly so that NO content looks totally off-base.


For instance, if your projector has a yellow BIAS and you are looking at someone's face, someone with a lighter skin color is going to be affected more, but someone with a very warm face may in some cases look better with the yellow BIAS than even on a D65 calibration. That doesn't mean just because one face looked better with a weird calibration that the D65 calibration isn't right, the fact is usually that 9 out of 10 faces will look better at D65 compared to even a slightly off D65 image. Some people's skin tones just actually COULD in some cases look better with color BIAS added, but it's not the norm, it's the exception, and sometimes the reason is camera lighting and too much makeup (or a bad makeup job).


I've often said it's ok to go off D65 a little to get a little higher contrast on some projectors like LCD's, but this isn't necessary on the MITS, and it is only DO-ABLE on other projectors if you fix skin tone bias with CMS or other methods, and this makes for a VERY long and troubling calibration to do so (you really need to be very patient to be able to do stuff like this).


Skin tones are by far the most important thing to me for color accuracy, I can live with color shift on backgrounds usually, but not on skin tones.
 
#491 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air /forum/post/20554574


The problem that I wasn't seeing the Ansi contrast I was wanting was that the HD material I watched on Directv just didn't stand out as far as the image popping. I watched some scenes from the movie 8 Mile on Starz HD tonight and it had some high ansi contrast scenes that really looked good.

Is there any reason you haven't popped in some reference Blu rays?


I myself would never judge a PJ based on Sat/Cable HD content. At best it can still not get close to reference blu discs, and at worst it can look like a DVD



Either way, PQ is extremely variable with Sat/Cable HD content.
 
#492 ·
I bet it was a mixture of all that you are saying: calibration and content, especially when the majority of the content was Directv HD which does look better than our local cable HD service but we all know how HD service can vary and some content doesn't look good at all and then some of it sparkles. I didn't put in a blu-ray until later in the day and I put in the movie Just Go With It and it looked fantastic. Next time I won't rush to judgement so soon but I just thought I had gone over everything. The black level is impressive for a projector at this price point.


Mike
 
#493 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman /forum/post/20555768


Is there any reason you haven't popped in some reference Blu rays?


I myself would never judge a PJ based on Sat/Cable HD content. At best it can still not get close to reference blu discs, and at worst it can look like a DVD



Either way, PQ is extremely variable with Sat/Cable HD content.

Yep, we are both thinking the same thing as far as Sat/Cable HD content.


The reason I didn't put in any blu-rays until later on was that I only plan on using this projector for HDTV/Sports/video games. I might try an occasional DVD or animated blu-ray movie on the HC4000 but I have a JVC RS40 I use for movies.


Mike
 
#494 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air /forum/post/20555793


The reason I didn't put in any blu-rays until later on was that I only plan on using this projector for HDTV/Sports/video games. I might try an occasional DVD or animated blu-ray movie on the HC4000 but I have a JVC RS40 I use for movies.


Mike

Well, once you get your HC4000 dialed in I'd really like to hear how it compares to the RS40 (and the Samsung A900B, Optoma HD80) with movies, if you can at some point (no rush!).


Obviously the RS40 will rule on black 'levels', though an overall comparison would be cool.


I'd play with the gamma a little. Try sports gamma, readjust bright/contrast (to the sports gamma preset). Might have to back off on the green a little, maybe add a little red after 100hrs). It really boosts shadow detail on my HC3800 with gray screen. Might be different with the HC4000 and a larger white screen, but worth a try.
 
#495 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman /forum/post/20556133


Well, once you get your HC4000 dialed in I'd really like to hear how it compares to the RS40 (and the Samsung A900B, Optoma HD80) with movies, if you can at some point (no rush!).


Obviously the RS40 will rule on black 'levels', though an overall comparison would be cool.


I'd play with the gamma a little. Try sports gamma, readjust bright/contrast (to the sports gamma preset). Might have to back off on the green a little, maybe add a little red after 100hrs). It really boosts shadow detail on my HC3800 with gray screen. Might be different with the HC4000 and a larger white screen, but worth a try.

I definitely will post impressions of how it compares to the RS40 after I put about 100 hours on the HC4000. I will be just going from memory comparing it to the A900B and the HD80 and also I didn't have a i1 Display LT when I had the A900B or HD80 so those comparisons may be unfair. To get the RS40 dialed it close to perfect I had to go into service menu to change the gains there just a bit, do you know if this needs to be done with the HC4000 or are they close enough that it can just be done in the regular menu? If you don't know that is fine as I will find out when I do it but its just I was frustrated with calibrating the grayscale with the RS40 the first time I did it as it was a give and take process but I could never get an acceptable gamma along with a flat D65k calibration. I then read where u may have to go into service menu to adjust gains to get a better calibration, once I did that it was much easier.


Thanks,

Mike
 
#496 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air /forum/post/20556396


To get the RS40 dialed it close to perfect I had to go into service menu to change the gains there just a bit, do you know if this needs to be done with the HC4000 or are they close enough that it can just be done in the regular menu?

Mike

No need to go into the service menu on the HC4000. CMS can be dialed in on the regular menu.


Good luck on the Mavs! I'm not into sports, but I guess I just don't like the Heat. Sorta like a funny phrase I saw on a bumper sticker: "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants."
 
#497 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman /forum/post/20556626


No need to go into the service menu on the HC4000. CMS can be dialed in on the regular menu.


Good luck on the Mavs! I'm not into sports, but I guess I just don't like the Heat. Sorta like a funny phrase I saw on a bumper sticker: "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants."

Ok, that is good to know.


The Mavs will have 2 chances to win a game in Miami but it will be tough. Last year the Celtics were up 3-2 and went back to L.A. and lost both games so I hope Dallas can do it this year. I was a Lebron and D-Wade fan last year but Lebron and D-Wade are now a little too full of themselves for me. Plus Dirk is one of my favorite players and I hope he finally wins a championship.


Mike
 
#498 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman /forum/post/0



No need to go into the service menu on the HC4000. CMS can be dialed in on the regular menu.


Good luck on the Mavs! I'm not into sports, but I guess I just don't like the Heat. Sorta like a funny phrase I saw on a bumper sticker: "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants."

I want Mavs to win. Suck it up LBJ. I hope he has a 1 hr show after the game to explain how he sucked. Sorry to outtrack guys.
 
#499 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by srjune1101 /forum/post/20557033


I want Mavs to win. Suck it up LBJ. I hope he has a 1 hr show after the game to explain how he sucked. Sorry to outtrack guys.

Yeah if the Heat lose LBJ can have a decision to suck in the 4th quarter show....lol


Ok, back to the projector. I have watched it all of yesterday. It really does have a very good black level. From my memory the black level is better than Optoma HD80 and very very close to the Samsung A900B although I never calibrated it so maybe it could've been better. I also think the HD80 was just a tad sharper and the Samsung A900B was sharper as well but not by much. While the image is bright(projector is ceiling mounted and I have a 92" 2.4 HP screen) when sitting on couch, when I stand up and look at screen it gets that extra gain since HP screens work best when projector is hitting it dead on from a table mount and I like that extra gain and that is what I am looking for. So, I know I need a DLP I can table mount with my HP screen so I have once again(I'm very particular...lol) put this projector and ceiling mount up for sale on videogon(anyone that is interested shoot me a PM, I have it priced to move.). I have 20 hours on it now so I adjusted price accordingly. For this price range and heck for even the next price range up this is a great projector. I will continue to use it until I can sell it and if you can ceiling mount the picture this projector throws is great.


Thanks,

Mike
 
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