Official Mitsubishi hc4000 ONLY Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 2859 Old 07-07-2011, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD_Bum View Post

Hey guys! First off thanks for all the input provided on this forum. After a whole lot of research I pulled the trigger on the HC4000. This is my first projector and so far I am very impressed. My small theater room isn't quite done so I set it up on a tan textured wall and think it looks great, can't wait to see it on a screen! Which brings me to some of my questions:

1. I am trying to decide what screen size to use so I placed the projector on its future shelve in the theater room (first picture). I was going to do the inverted shelve idea but used the packaging it came with to temporary place it. Well this packaging material seems to work perfect, no adjustments needed for height. Think this would work for a permanent placement? (I would trim it and paint it black to make it look a little nicer). It is a light plastic like material and concerns might be melting, settling, other?

2. The shelve puts the projector about 11' away and gives me a 113 picture with max zoom (second picture). I brought in one of my speakers I will be using to help size the screen and noticed a significant reflection off the veneer finish (third picture). The reflection really doesn't go away until it is zoomed down to well below 100. Will the reflection be less with a screen rather than the primed wall? Will it be distracting? Any ideas on reducing it? Love the sound and look of the Mirage speakers so really don't want to give these up. Also don't really want to wrap the speaker with velvet

3. I am thinking about going cheap and just painting a screen on the wall (it is already smooth). Would something like the Jamestown 1.2 gain 110 screen look better than a painted one? (I know, quite a subjective question)

4. Only going to be sitting about 11 - 12' away, is 110 too big? 100 be more appropriate? (would help with the speaker glare issue also).

Thanks for any advice!

Congrats on the purchase:

1) I might be worried about heat dispersion on that packaging. Its already in an enclosed space so I would get any extra material out of there.
2) If you made a screen with a velvet border or just made a wood frame and covered it with black velvet and put it on the wall you might get rid of the speaker glare. I bought white Wilsonart laminate and made a 128" screen for 150.00. Just an option.
4) If its too big you are too old. Seriously, it looks you are within the 2 1/2 times the screen height for seating distance so you should be good with 113 or 100.
3)
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post #722 of 2859 Old 07-08-2011, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Well, I haven't seen the 8350 in person, yet I can't imagine I would prefer it

In any case, the HC3800/4000's are close, the differences in black level are minor, I think a HC4000 owner can comment better if he's seen the 8350 in action....

I owned both the hc3800 and hc4000, so I guess I'll comment. Was trying to take a break from these forums for a bit after moving and everything. Going to get my other projector stuff going soon enough.

From my memory
----------------
Anyhow, the hc4000 has a tiny TINY bit of a sharper image, usually only noticeable in HTPC internet browsing or reading tiny text (even then it's miniscule), but more importantly I feel the hc4000 takes the bright SCENE POP even one step farther than the hc3800. I think the hc4000 has a clear advantage in mixed scenes, and a little bit of advantage in black levels. All this said, I never compared them side-by-side, so it's really hard to say for sure, but that's what my memory tells me.

RS35 vs. Mits hc4000
----------------------
Regarding the RS35 vs. the Mits hc4000, I'm confident the hc4000 will still easily beat an RS35 in bright scenes but the Mits will lose hugely in anything that gets close to evening time shots or darker, but the Rs35 is a really great projector in that it is unusually sharp for an LCOS, which is one reason they go for such a ridiculous premium. I've hardly ever seen a used one even under $5000. I've seen enough JVC's now in person to know they can't beat the Mits hc4000 at bright scenes, so even though the RS35 is sharper I have serious doubts. I would also be interested in seeing a Mits hc9000d vs. a Mits hc4000 as a bright scene comparison than another JVC, the Mits 9000d uses the Sony panels that have higher Ansi contrast, but it also has the magical Mits touch which produces a sharper image which should rival and possibly even surpass the RS35 in sharpness. That said, the Mits 9000d won't beat the RS35 in black levels or even come that close, but like many projectors it gets close enough for most scenes.



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post #723 of 2859 Old 07-08-2011, 03:54 AM
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Which should I mount first my HC4000 or our 120" electric screen? We have been falling in love with watching movies so far on our wall and we just can't imagine the image we will get once we have a screen. I decided that a 92" will not do so I ordered a 120" (go big or go home syndrome). Couple questions when I did the projector calculator my offset value was 19.8, is that 19.8 from the top of my ceiling down? I was just going to mount my screen at the top corner and call it dun. I need help Obi-wans!

Ceiling 106"
mount drop 4"

14'X22' room

Anyone wanna share their installation stories/tips? This would help me tremendously! Thanks in advance
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post #724 of 2859 Old 07-08-2011, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one4g View Post

Which should I mount first my HC4000 or our 120" electric screen? We have been falling in love with watching movies so far on our wall and we just can't imagine the image we will get once we have a screen. I decided that a 92" will not do so I ordered a 120" (go big or go home syndrome). Couple questions when I did the projector calculator my offset value was 19.8, is that 19.8 from the top of my ceiling down? I was just going to mount my screen at the top corner and call it dun. I need help Obi-wans!

Ceiling 106"
mount drop 4"

14'X22' room

Anyone wanna share their installation stories/tips? This would help me tremendously! Thanks in advance

I would def mount pj first and get it dialed in before screen. Your 20" offset looks correct but it is measured from the center of the lens to the top of screen so you have 4" for the mount + a couple of inches from the bottom of the pj to the center of lens so 6-7" from ceiling + 20" offset.

If you want the picture higher or lower on the wall you will have to tilt the pj up or down and use the Keystone correction button to adjust but don't use too much or the picture will get degraded. There is also a vertical picture adjustment in the menus that you can manipulate but I believe you may have to go with different aspect ratios such as 2:38 (scope) instead of the typical 16:9. There is detailed info regarding this if you poke around here.
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post #725 of 2859 Old 07-08-2011, 07:54 AM
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I installed my brand new HC4000 last night upgrading from an Epson 1080 Home Cinema. The change is fantastic. I am still struggling a little bit to get it perfectly aligned as I am a newbie with a ceiling mount. I have had a rear shelf with my previous LCD projectors. My biggest problem right now is light leaking from the bottom of the projector and showing on the ceiling. I have read differing views on this in a number of forums and have not seen any silver bullet fixes. If anyone has thoughts or help, it would be much appreciated.
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post #726 of 2859 Old 07-08-2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavebrad View Post

I installed my brand new HC4000 last night upgrading from an Epson 1080 Home Cinema. The change is fantastic. I am still struggling a little bit to get it perfectly aligned as I am a newbie with a ceiling mount. I have had a rear shelf with my previous LCD projectors. My biggest problem right now is light leaking from the bottom of the projector and showing on the ceiling. I have read differing views on this in a number of forums and have not seen any silver bullet fixes. If anyone has thoughts or help, it would be much appreciated.

Out of curiosity, what type of ceiling mount do you have?
I believe the light leakage thing is greater with some PJs than others...maybe high end PJs have none, but i got used to it on mine after awhile...
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post #727 of 2859 Old 07-08-2011, 03:54 PM
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What brightness setting do you all have your Mits set to....especially if you have a high-contrast gray screen? Just curious....
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post #728 of 2859 Old 07-08-2011, 05:35 PM
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Thanks everyone for such great information. I just (tonight) took my hc4000 out of the box and turned it on. It's got a great picture without any real set up. I chose between the mits and the Epson 8350 and, so far, I'm liking my decision.

Previously, I had an Infocus 7210. The mits is significantly quieter, which is important and has a much better picture than I expected compared to the 7210.

Greg
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post #729 of 2859 Old 07-08-2011, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavebrad View Post

I installed my brand new HC4000 last night upgrading from an Epson 1080 Home Cinema. The change is fantastic. I am still struggling a little bit to get it perfectly aligned as I am a newbie with a ceiling mount. I have had a rear shelf with my previous LCD projectors. My biggest problem right now is light leaking from the bottom of the projector and showing on the ceiling. I have read differing views on this in a number of forums and have not seen any silver bullet fixes. If anyone has thoughts or help, it would be much appreciated.

I just got a black cloth and hung it over the lens. Hang it over the area that the light spill is coming from. The majority of the lens does not have the actual image shooting through it.
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post #730 of 2859 Old 07-09-2011, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevhed View Post

What brightness setting do you all have your Mits set to....especially if you have a high-contrast gray screen? Just curious....

I use the standard lamp mode in my 106" gain 1.0 whate screen.
The CONTRAST setting of HC 4000 is default(0).



If you thought the image is too bright, you can use the low lamp mode.
If it is stall too bright in low mode, try to turm down the CONTRAT in the HC 4000 menu. Then view the white screen to check the brightness in your screen.

And "AVS HD 709" is a good way to do the adjustment.
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post #731 of 2859 Old 07-09-2011, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevhed View Post

What brightness setting do you all have your Mits set to....especially if you have a high-contrast gray screen? Just curious....

I am using my Mits 4000 with a 1.3 gain Stewart Firehawk gray screen. I run the lamp in low mode. Initially I used Cinema mode with Brilliant Color On. That seems to occasionally cause some blotchiness on peoples cheeks. I currently use Video mode with Brilliant Color Off, the picture is slightly brighter and the blotchy cheek problem goes away. Everything else is set to default. I use the projector for TV and Movies and do not change settings between modes. The picture looks great either way.
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post #732 of 2859 Old 07-09-2011, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John P View Post

I am using my Mits 4000 with a 1.3 gain Stewart Firehawk gray screen. I run the lamp in low mode. Initially I used Cinema mode with Brilliant Color On. That seems to occasionally cause some blotchiness on peoples cheeks. I currently use Video mode with Brilliant Color Off, the picture is slightly brighter and the blotchy cheek problem goes away. Everything else is set to default. I use the projector for TV and Movies and do not change settings between modes. The picture looks great either way.

Interesting.....do you even find dark scenes in movies "too dark" ie you have difficulty discerning details in shadows, etc., with the lamp on low power?

Also, while playing the Wii, too dark...but I need to dig up some settings advice from here for video games....
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post #733 of 2859 Old 07-09-2011, 10:43 AM
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I may try to make a DIY anamorphic lens, but I want to make sure this projector supports it. As far as I know it does, but let me know if I have this right.

Using an anamorphic lens...

Watching a 2.35:1 movie...
Image-->Advanced-->Screen Size-->2.35:1
Set Aspect to "Anamorphic 1"

This will vertically stretch the 2.35:1 image to the full 1920x1080 size, correct?

Using no anamorphic lens...

Image-->Advanced-->Screen Size-->2.35:1

If the aspect control is left alone, does the projector go into a 1920x817 mode? And as a result, a 16:9 image would be 1452x817?

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post #734 of 2859 Old 07-09-2011, 11:54 AM
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Is the hc4000 a worthwhile upgrade if your hd1000 is still running strong? I'm curious as to your impressions for those of you who have made the same upgrade.

Thanks
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post #735 of 2859 Old 07-09-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by statonj View Post
Is the hc4000 a worthwhile upgrade if your hd1000 is still running strong? I'm curious as to your impressions for those of you who have made the same upgrade.

Thanks
I have an HC3100 that just needs a new $220 bulb and I'm strongly leaning toward the HC4000. Just based off the numbers, you'll get better contrast, and a full 1080p image. Also, the DarkChip3 DMD has a finer pixel structure than the older variants, so less screen door effect.

For me, coming from an HC3100U, the upgrade makes sense. I'll probably buy an HC4000 if no reasonably priced 1080p LED projectors or inexpensive DC4 projectors are revealed at CEDIA. So sight unseen, I'd say the move from an HD1000 to an HC4000 makes a lot of sense.

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post #736 of 2859 Old 07-09-2011, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

For me, coming from an HC3100U, the upgrade makes sense. I'll probably buy an HC4000 if no reasonably priced 1080p LED projectors or inexpensive DC4 projectors are revealed at CEDIA.

Yeah, it seems very unlikely. Reasonable 1080p LED's seem to be a few years off.

So I pre-welcome you to the HC4000

Would be very interesting on how it stacks against the HC3100.
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post #737 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by statonj View Post

Is the hc4000 a worthwhile upgrade if your hd1000 is still running strong? I'm curious as to your impressions for those of you who have made the same upgrade.

Thanks

Easily the hc4000 is leaps and bounds past the hd1000. I briefly owned the hd1000 a few years before the hc3800 and hc4000. The hd1000 was good for its day, but it can't compete against a Mits hc4000, not even close.

So yes, it's a huge upgrade.



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post #738 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Yeah, it seems very unlikely. Reasonable 1080p LED's seem to be a few years off.

So I pre-welcome you to the HC4000

Would be very interesting on how it stacks against the HC3100.

Hmm, I may do a shootout. I'll probably get a new bulb for the 3100, because I'd feel bad if I sold it to somebody with a bulb way past it's life expectancy (like my current bulb)

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post #739 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevhed View Post

Out of curiosity, what type of ceiling mount do you have?
I believe the light leakage thing is greater with some PJs than others...maybe high end PJs have none, but i got used to it on mine after awhile...

I used this mount from Amazon. It is very low profile, took me about 20 minutes to install and adjusts in a variety of ways. I am pretty pleased: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TXNS6G
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post #740 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 09:24 AM
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I am interested in the Mits HC4000 and have been playing with the calculator but I'm not sure that I am doing it correctly. I have a 107" 16:9 screen right now that is 22.75" off the ground. I have 94" ceilings but the projector would have to be mounted about 12-14" off the ceiling to project below some HVAC conduit. If this is going to be ceiling mounted, will it work?
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post #741 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops10 View Post

I am interested in the Mits HC4000 and have been playing with the calculator but I'm not sure that I am doing it correctly. I have a 107" 16:9 screen right now that is 22.75" off the ground. I have 94" ceilings but the projector would have to be mounted about 12-14" off the ceiling to project below some HVAC conduit. If this is going to be ceiling mounted, will it work?

Is your 16:9 screen 107" wide, or diagonal?
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post #742 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 12:34 PM
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It is 107" diagonal, sorry about that.
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post #743 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops10 View Post

I am interested in the Mits HC4000 and have been playing with the calculator but I'm not sure that I am doing it correctly. I have a 107" 16:9 screen right now that is 22.75" off the ground. I have 94" ceilings but the projector would have to be mounted about 12-14" off the ceiling to project below some HVAC conduit. If this is going to be ceiling mounted, will it work?

Hoops give us some more dimensions, like how far does the HVAC hang down, and also how far behind the conduit are you/can you mount the projector. The reason for that is that the large offset may help you in the fact that you may not have to hang the projector that far down...

War Eagle!!!
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post #744 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Easily the hc4000 is leaps and bounds past the hd1000. I briefly owned the hd1000 a few years before the hc3800 and hc4000. The hd1000 was good for its day, but it can't compete against a Mits hc4000, not even close.

So yes, it's a huge upgrade.

Hey coder glad to see you bank in the swings of things, hopefully the move went well...

in vegas this week for a conference, not sure how much posting I will be able to get in...

War Eagle!!!
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post #745 of 2859 Old 07-10-2011, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopt View Post

Hoops give us some more dimensions, like how far does the HVAC hang down, and also how far behind the conduit are you/can you mount the projector. The reason for that is that the large offset may help you in the fact that you may not have to hang the projector that far down...

The HVAC hangs down about 12" from the ceiling and I have plenty of room behind it to mount the projector. My current setup has the projector mounted at 14' from the screen. The HVAC is 10' to 13'8" from screen (the HVAC conduit is just over 3' long when measured from the screen, after 13'8" the conduit ends and the height of the ceiling returns back to 94"). Hope that makes sense. As you can see with the above numbers, the current projector is mounted right behind the HVAC conduit. Let me know if you need any more info and thanks for the replies.
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post #746 of 2859 Old 07-11-2011, 05:03 AM
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I would like to ask a favor, play both video tests and look how much of Dynamic Resolution it has.

Link: Test 1.mp4


Link: Test 2.mp4


Please tell me what resolution the projector begins to mess the lines.


Thank you,
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post #747 of 2859 Old 07-11-2011, 09:12 AM
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I would like to ask a favor, play both video tests and look how much of Dynamic Resolution it has.

snip..
Please tell me what resolution the projector begins to mess the lines.


Thank you,
Peter.

So I would do tis but I am on the road...maybe someone else has some time can run these for you, although any dlp should be fairly sharp....

War Eagle!!!
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post #748 of 2859 Old 07-11-2011, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bishopt View Post

So I would do tis but I am on the road...maybe someone else has some time can run these for you, although any dlp should be fairly sharp....

Thank you for the quick reply. I believe that any DLP projector can handle just fine any fast motion picture, but I am coming back to projector from a LCD TV, so this problem is quite common to me. And I don't wanna see any kind of ghost anymore.



Peter
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post #749 of 2859 Old 07-11-2011, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I went to the movies today (new room isn't setup yet), man the picture was horrible.
It was a cinemark, saw the movie "Super 8". Movie starts out ok then gets real dumb about halfway through.

Anyways, the projector they were using was bad, it looked blurry and I kept seeing blue tracers next to certain lights.

I'm sure there are some great commerical movie theaters, but so far I'm not impresssed. I guess it's because they have to be so bright for such giant screens that they are engineered to not maximize contrast. The color was pretty good I guess, obviously calibrated, but the actual sharpness and detail was bad. Too much 35mm film grain as well, was annoying.

It's funny how movie theaters look so much worse than HT projectors, at least the ones I've seen lately.



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coderguy is offline  
post #750 of 2859 Old 07-11-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bishopt View Post

Welcome to the thread and congrats, I think you mad a good decision, well you are in the mits thread , while the blacks are the weak point along with the placement flexibility I think you will be amazed for the price point...please post back when you get it setup with your thoughts...the one hdmi port while seems lacking, most have a switching receiver that will upconvert and pass everything via HDMI..for the price point they had to make concessions and that is one of them..If they didn't see RBE's with the 02 projector then I think you will be good, the old ones were much worse than the new ones...one more thing, I calibrated mine with HCFR and an i1 LT, the mits are pretty close OTB with just a few settings, one thing to note is from my experience and curttard, you can't really trust the FL readings from the i1 LT, for some reason it's just not accurate....at least that was my experience...once again, please post back with thoughts after you have watched some material...

Got the PJ Friday but only got a few hours to mess with it late Saturday night. Impressions so far:

* Good god I can't believe how bright new projectors are. My room is small by this forum's standards, ~13x11 with 98" screen. Black front wall and ceiling, dark blue walls, dark grey carpet. Screen is just white wall paint. The white menu page for the AVS REC709 disc nearly blinded me. A quick brightness cal with i1 to ~14fl had me knocking contrast down to -12 I think, which was still plenty bright. That's in low lamp, cinema mode.

* As advertised the PJ is very well calibrated out of the box. Using cinema mode my measured luminance curve was dead nuts on and gamma was flat and almost perfect from 10-100 IRE. RGB levels were just a touch off with red being the main offender. That was quickly rectified. Colors were off a tad but with CMS I could get all but blue and yellow under 10 deltaE. I was actually a bit disappointed by my ability to make adjustments with CMS... I really wasn't able to dial the colors in the way I though I would be able to. That's all just anal retentive specmanship though, everything is close enough that it looks great and I have the piece of mind that I can point to a number and say, "See, it's right!" Plus every 6 months I have an excuse to go tinker with stuff and a metric that tells me when it's time to upgrade.

* Black level... not sure what to say. I think I need to study this more. So far none of my demo material would be considered black level torture testing. The black bars are certainly brighter than my black painted wall. How could they not be unless the room were completely absent of light? It's front projection after all. I did have to raise the brightness a few notches so I could see the 2% above black bar on the REC709 disc, so obviously that doesn't help. I don't think I should be crushing blacks then, and with properly calibrated gamma I shouldn't be losing shadow detail. The issue should just be that blacks aren't black enough, but obviously in bright scenes blacks look black. I will say that when I do get the feeling I'm missing shadow detail it's due to my eyes, not the PJ (neither this one or others I have seen). Typically there's a dark object in the foreground of an otherwise bright scene and my eyes just can't resolve black level differences in the presence of all the nearby light. Again I think I need to spend some time with some material that will stress black level, but I know not to expect the best blacks. My problem is I don't really know how much improved black level really can be because I've never seen a supposed "best of breed" PJ for blacks. Again a lot of this is specmanship, the material I've watched so far looks fantastic.

* Sharpness seems as good as one would expect from a single-panel display. It did take me longer than I would have thought to align the projector and get it focused, but I just have it on some stacked boxes that probably aren't level. Even so there is a slight difference in focus from left to right but I don't know yet if it's from the optics or I'm still not aligned. I haven't connected a computer source yet, I'm just going by the sharpness of the menu which you can move to all 4 corners of the screen. I can focus perfectly in any 1 location but I can't get 2 opposite corners to have identical sharpness. It's only slight, from viewing distance it's hard to tell without moving the focus or moving the menu around to compare. With movie content it isn't visible. I didn't really look for CA, which I assume would produce some color fringing around white pixels?

* I'm not overly RBE sensitive and as a former DLP owner I have learned how to tune them out. I wouldn't say that I see them per se, but I get a vague impression of them usually in my peripheral vision. I personally don't find the effect objectionable.

* When up close I did notice the vibration people here have mentioned, but again the PJ is on top of a somewhat wobbly stack of boxes. I'll have to experiment with this more but I'm assuming a sturdy mount will take care of this. If I can find a stable single-piece table top that is the correct height I'll switch to that until I can get a mount. It isn't noticable at viewing distance and I'm assuming I can correct it.

* My general perception of the PQ is very good... the main thing I kept thinking was how bright the image was and how it looked just like a giant direct view TV. That was something that I wasn't sure was possible by the way based on my previous projector experience and now several years of getting used to bright, direct view LCD displays.

I watched bits of Casino Royale, Dark Knight, and the new Return of the King EE, all on Blu-Ray via HDMI from a PS3, which I also used for calibration. Honestly, everything looked superb. It really did seem like I was watching a huge direct view TV, like it was just painted on the wall. A couple of times in Casino Royale I got an impression of a "video-y" look, but I suspect that's from the encode itself. A 1080p image from just over 1 screen width away is probably going to show blemishes. It's a hard effect to describe, my recollection is some foliage in the background just looked kind of blotchy which distracted from the otherwise crisp image. I can see how fine detail like that might not always encode right, but I could just be making excuses. Time will tell.

So far it's a keeper. There's a lot more to test out, like video content, gaming and HTPC usage although honestly I don't really mess with HTPC anymore. I need to have the rest of the family check it out, particularly for RBE. Looking forward to playing around with it more when I can get the time!
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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Mitsubishi Hc4000 300 Inch 1080p Front Projector
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