Official Mitsubishi hc4000 ONLY Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Can't wait to get this on blu ray...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvZgwtpPmLY

I with you ...that will be a good one to watch again...."we are on a mission..."

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post #1532 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post

WellI can get a used SP8602 for 950 UK pounds which is about $1700 I can sell my HC3800 for $1200 if am lucky

My only worry though is being able to fill my screen at my sitting distance with the SP8602

I have a 120 inch 2.35.1 screen with anamorphic lens and my sitting distance is exactly 13ft but as the SP8602 is so large that would come down quite abit

Any ideas if I can fill it ? with the zoom

I've seen guys do it with mirrors, that will increase the focal length...and since you have brightness to spare..might be something to consider...I've seen posts in the forum detailing how to....just an idea..

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post #1533 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoey67 View Post

Im sure it is but it's really hard to tell how good image quality against anything else with animation or gaming images. Could you post up with some from say dark of the moon or another movie

The screen shots made me dig out Despicable Me and watch a few scenes on my new projector. Image quality is indeed stunning, it does really show how much better th the HC-4000 is compared to my old Optoma HD70.

I'm not sure a CGI heavy movie like "Dark of the Moon" would be more informative regarding standard movie PQ.

I don't have any screen shots, but we did watch some regularly filmed material this weekend. We've been watching "Mad Men", which is shot on film. PQ is excellent compared to 720p. While it looks sharper overall, there's lots of subtleties that make the image excel. I've been noticeing small details in clothing not apparent before. I've also noticed more blemishes in the actors' complexions. Also, this is almost a negative, but it's easier to tell when there's a slight misfocus on some shots.

We also watched "Inspector Lewis" on PBS from an OTA signal. It looked great, coming close to BD quality.

The one slight negative is I noticed the lack of resolution in standard DVD's more than I used to. I'm uprezzing upstream, so that's not the point of difference. I wonder if it's uprezzing from DVD all the way to 1080 that's making the difference.
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post #1534 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMac View Post

snip..

The one slight negative is I noticed the lack of resolution in standard DVD's more than I used to. I'm uprezzing upstream, so that's not the point of difference. I wonder if it's uprezzing from DVD all the way to 1080 that's making the difference.

Good point, thought I'd pass this along...I have 2 players, don't laugh but one HD-DVD and one panny blu player. So I noticed this also, since I'm pretty picky about picture quality so you might try this. My HD-dvd player will only do 1080i, so I decided to try setting that player to 720p and I notice that the picture from DVD's is much better than when scaled to 1080p, I have actually watched quite a few DVD's once I did that and they look great, mind you the 1080p will look much sharper but I can watch DVD's and not think about it...the only thing that I can think is that the scaling to 720p is easier vs 1080p....so the one player I watch blu's on and for DVD's and HD-DVD I throw in the other player and I don;t have to mess with any settings that way...give it a shot and see if you can see any difference...

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post #1535 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 11:17 AM
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A lot of movies from the 70s etc look really great. Lots of closeups, grain, and more even lighting than today's extreme contrast look. Two I watched recently that looked very nice were the original Straw Dogs and an 80s sci-fi called The Quiet Earth (the latter in particular).
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post #1536 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 11:55 AM
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the real question is
is the HC4000 better than the epson 8350?
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post #1537 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos1965 View Post

the real question is
is the HC4000 better than the epson 8350?

That is funny, you do realize your in the Mits thread....

In any case, by all accounts except maybe lumen output, and placement flexibility, the mits is heads and shoulders better above the epson....without a doubt

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post #1538 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMac View Post

The one slight negative is I noticed the lack of resolution in standard DVD's more than I used to. I'm uprezzing upstream, so that's not the point of difference. I wonder if it's uprezzing from DVD all the way to 1080 that's making the difference.

Well, now that you have a native 1080p PJ, it HAS to scale the DVD to 1080p before it can project it at 1080p.

The question is whether the scaler in the HC4000 is better than the scaler in your player?

If you have something like a Oppo blu ray player, then it will be better, have the Oppo output 1080p.

Either way you can test it with your own eyes; Player outputting 1080p = player scaling dvd to 1080p. Player outputting 480i/p = HC4000 doing the scaling.
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post #1539 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 01:20 PM
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I know keystone will correct vertical distortion, but is there something to correct a horizontal distortion? The top of the image is arching a bit instead of being straight. Perhaps a defect with my unit? The bottom is straight though.
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post #1540 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitzBasicMan View Post

I know keystone will correct vertical distortion, but is there something to correct a horizontal distortion? The top of the image is arching a bit instead of being straight. Perhaps a defect with my unit? The bottom is straight though.

Nothing to correct that 'if' it's the PJ.

I assume you ruled out the screen? By either physically turning the PJ upside down (from what it is now) to see if it's now on the bottom of the screen? Or projecting on a flat wall, etc.?

How bad is this arch measurement wise?

Also, are you using keystone in your setup?
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post #1541 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Nothing to correct that 'if' it's the PJ.

I assume you ruled out the screen? By either physically turning the PJ upside down (from what it is now) to see if it's now on the bottom of the screen? Or projecting on a flat wall, etc.?

How bad is this arch measurement wise?

Also, are you using keystone in your setup?

I'm pretty sure it would not be the screen. I had my old projector set up exactly the same without any issue like this with the same screen.

The measurement is around 1-1.25" at the crown.

I'm using no keystone.
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post #1542 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I would try it in another room on a wall just to be sure, but yah it could have been dropped in shipping knocking part of the assembly out of whack or just bending something. Could also just be a MFR defect.

Any visible damage on the PJ?


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post #1543 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would try it in another room on a wall just to be sure, but yah it could have been dropped in shipping knocking part of the assembly out of whack or just bending something. Could also just be a MFR defect.

Any visible damage on the PJ?

Hmm. At 16:9 I precisely measured it and it was actually only a 1/4 inch taller in the middle and it is actually concave on the bottom too. It seemed much more pronounce on a 2.39:1 movie for some reason, but not concave on the bottom. I do have the PJ pitched slightly. Will that cause this? Seems like if the screen is truly flat, then there should be no concave or convex behavior of the top or bottom regardless of whether it is pitched or not correct?
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post #1544 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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The pitching is your issue, doesn't matter if the screen is level, you cannot pitch the projector unless you use keystone.

You get an unevenly distorted trapezoid if the projector is pitched vertically (the bottom wider than the top or vice versa) if pitched uneven horizontally you get uneven sides.

If your problem is just trapezoidal, there are ways to handle this, you need to re-align your projector properly. Also, if you have run out of room to do so, there are some tricks, I will post them later after you investigate it more and if you think you still need help.


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post #1545 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 06:44 PM
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It seems he doesn't have a trapezoid issue. He seems to be complaining of a pin cushion effect. If so, it won't be fixed by aligning to the screen.



Again, I would project on a flat wall, and upside down, and with/without the internal test grid (in the HC4000 menu) to rule out everything except the PJ. Once that is done, call Mits support.

Another possibility is that he might be at the extremes of the zoom range, which can increase pin cushion distortion on some PJ's. If he has a very large screen/image and the distortion is only 1/4", and he's at the extreme of the zoom lens, then that possibly could be within spec. I would try testing at the mid-zoom range to see if it goes away/lessens.
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post #1546 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

You get an unevenly distorted trapezoid if the projector is pitched vertically (the bottom wider than the top or vice versa) if pitched uneven horizontally you get uneven sides.

If your problem is just trapezoidal, there are ways to handle this, you need to re-align your projector properly. Also, if you have run out of room to do so, there are some tricks, I will post them later after you investigate it more and if you think you still need help.

No it shouldn't be a trapezoidal issue. A trapezoid will still have straight lines. Even with the PJ pitched vertically, the sides will be slanted a bit but the top and bottom will be straight. I'll have to take it off the mount & play around with it some more as suggested.
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post #1547 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

It seems he doesn't have a trapezoid issue. He seems to be complaining of a pin cushion effect. If so, it won't be fixed by aligning to the screen.



Again, I would project on a flat wall, and upside down, and with/without the internal test grid (in the HC4000 menu) to rule out everything except the PJ. Once that is done, call Mits support.

Another possibility is that he might be at the extremes of the zoom range, which can increase pin cushion distortion on some PJ's. If he has a very large screen/image and the distortion is only 1/4", and he's at the extreme of the zoom lens, then that possibly could be within spec. I would try testing at the mid-zoom range to see if it goes away/lessens.

Close Fleaman, except that the top is convex not concave. - I do have it mostly to one extreme of the zoom.
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post #1548 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitzBasicMan View Post

Close Fleaman, except that the top is convex not concave. - I do have it mostly to one extreme of the zoom.

Honestly, it sounds like a combo-effect to me, not just one distortion.

A convex quadrilateral is a trapezoid if and only if it has two adjacent angles that are supplementary, that is, they add up 180 degrees. Another necessary and sufficient condition is that the diagonals cut each other in mutually the same ratio (this ratio is the same as that between the lengths of the parallel sides). A convex quadrilateral is also a trapezoid if and only if the diagonals form one pair of similar opposite triangles...

That is from the Wiki, not from my brain, didn't want to scare any of you


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post #1549 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Honestly, it sounds like a combo-effect to me, not just one distortion.

A convex quadrilateral is a trapezoid if and only if it has two adjacent angles that are supplementary, that is, they add up 180 degrees. Another necessary and sufficient condition is that the diagonals cut each other in mutually the same ratio (this ratio is the same as that between the lengths of the parallel sides). A convex quadrilateral is also a trapezoid if and only if the diagonals form one pair of similar opposite triangles...

That is from the Wiki, not from my brain, didn't want to scare any of you

I'm rubbing my head after that one. lol. I like "pin cushion" better.
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post #1550 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitzBasicMan View Post

Close Fleaman, except that the top is convex not concave. - I do have it mostly to one extreme of the zoom.


I'd also add that i'm running a 7ft wide screen. So not that big.
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post #1551 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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It's not a pincushion effect I dont think when the top is extruding outward, for pincushion you need a somewhat equal cave-in like the picture he posted.

Try what fleaman said, although I think your problem is a combo-effect.


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post #1552 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitzBasicMan View Post

I'd also add that i'm running a 7ft wide screen. So not that big.

Well, try it at mid-zoom and the other suggestions before calling mits....
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post #1553 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopt View Post

Name a movie, we already have lots of posts, kind of hard anyway to tell from a picture...if you search on my username, curttard, fleaman...we all have lots of pics...but if you want anything in particular, if I have it on hand I will try to get you some shots...

Anything really except for animation or games. I mentioned Dark of the moon in my post since it's the flavor of the month but I guess you don't have it... anything else you have decent on blu ray is fine.
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post #1554 of 2860 Old 10-11-2011, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopt View Post

I with you ...that will be a good one to watch again...."we are on a mission..."

I couldn't wait for amazon to lower the price. Finally got it today for $9.99 on their 'upgrade and save' deal (trade in any used retail dvd for a $5 coupon on blu's on their list)>

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstempl...s&nrp=25&iht=n

I already had in in DVD, but traded a much crappier dvd movie in instead
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post #1555 of 2860 Old 10-12-2011, 08:22 AM
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[Transformers: Dark of the Moon] Blu-Ray on HC 4000.

PHOTO FOR REFERENCE:





























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post #1556 of 2860 Old 10-12-2011, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by len1978 View Post

[Transformers: Dark of the Moon] Blu-Ray on HC 4000.

PHOTO FOR REFERENCE:

Snip...


Thanks Len, that saves me from having to do it and they look good


I watched Hanna last night...really I think most folks will never notice the black levels, I do on certain scenes in certain movies but that is the weakest point...for most movies it just looks great!

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post #1557 of 2860 Old 10-12-2011, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Do I smell a Mitsubishi hc4000 or hc7800 vs. a JVC RS-45 shootout coming, just maybe!
I'll need a bullet proof vest if I do that comparison in these forums


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post #1558 of 2860 Old 10-12-2011, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Do I smell a Mitsubishi hc4000 or hc7800 vs. a JVC RS-45 shootout coming, just maybe!
I'll need a bullet proof vest if I do that comparison in these forums

I would love to see a RS-45 vs HC4000 shootout!
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post #1559 of 2860 Old 10-12-2011, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by contentedbloke View Post

I would love to see a RS-45 vs HC4000 shootout!

Well the RS-45 will smoke it on the blacks but I think everything else in brighter scenes would be very close...in fact I think most would prefer the HC4000 for most content...but I am biased

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post #1560 of 2860 Old 10-12-2011, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Yah, I'm not sure how the comparison would come out. The RS-45 would be much sharper than the previous LCOS I owned (Sony vw70), so this is going to make it tougher.

I expect the Mits may win in bright scenes. I really don't even need to own the Mits hc4000 when I do the shootout, the image is forever etched into my memory as long as I watch the same content I have always compared with. It would be helpful if I had one to compare directly, but don't really need it, I have so many reference points I can use.

One thing the JVC might ride away with is in the color department, I noticed the LCOS technology has more vivid colors sort of. The Sony beat the Mits in this, but the problem was the Sony's sharpness couldn't hang on when it needed it the most, not to mention all the artifacts in the Sony's processing. No idea if the JVC has any of these same artifacts, possibly as the JVC driver is said to have MUCH more image noise than DLP, this might make me not really like the JVC.

The Mits to date has the cleanest image I've seen yet, but the Sanyo came pretty close, so I am guessing if LCD can be that clean, LCOS should be able to as well, even if the older Sony failed in that department.


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