Official Mitsubishi hc4000 ONLY Thread - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Never seen the LG, but I think you'll be disappointed if I base it on what others that have seen it have told me. It might beat the 8350 for contrast, but not by as much as you think it would. It can't get to the Sanyo z4000 or Panny 4000's black levels, and without the IRIS the black levels are most likely very close to the Mits hc4000 black levels, maybe even worse.

Well I may be disappointed with it as a movie unit personally. Since I've experienced a better projector as a whole. You have many that are enamored with some of the entry level units..then again they haven't seen better in their homes.

They could be over joyed with the LG as an upgrade.
I doubt it would be a terrible back up unit for a main projector.
No worse than any other in this price range as a whole.
It would make a great living room projector,when you want a little light on.

In 2d viewing this unit will decimate the Epson 3010 and Optoma HD33. Both will look much worse in the mixed to darker scenes of movies.
If 3D isn't important I would choose it over them in this price range.
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post #1982 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

Well I may be disappointed with it as a movie unit personally. Since I've experienced a better projector as a whole.

They could be over joyed with the LG as an upgrade.
I doubt it would be a terrible back up unit for a main projector.

Yah, for RBE sensitive folks that want a bright living room projector, it's not bad. Although I'd just tell them to get the Optoma hd33 or hd3300 instead, the best mode brightness of each are basically the same as the LG. With the Optoma's 6x color wheel, I doubt RBE is really an issue for hardly anyone. I'm sure it still can be, but it's probably 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 at that point or something.

We cannot say the LG will decimate the Optoma in 2D mode, we have never compared them. I am actually fairly confident the Mits h4000 will destroy the LG, and the Optoma would beat it as well, but only lose to it in dark scenes.

The LG will beat the Optoma in black levels, but not enough for my tastes to warrant the other disadvantages it carries with it. The Optoma's do really awesome in 3D mode.


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post #1983 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Yah, for RBE sensitive folks that want a bright living room projector, it's not bad. Although I'd just tell them to get the Optoma hd33 or hd3300 instead, the best mode brightness of each are basically the same as the LG. With the Optoma's 6x color wheel, I doubt RBE is really an issue for hardly anyone. I'm sure it still can be, but it's probably 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 at that point or something.

We cannot say the LG will decimate the Optoma in 2D mode, we have never compared them. I am actually fairly confident the Mits h4000 will destroy the LG, and the Optoma would beat it as well, but only lose to it in dark scenes.

The LG will beat the Optoma in black levels, but not enough for my tastes to warrant the other disadvantages it carries with it. The Optoma's do really awesome in 3D mode.

Not sure about that my friend..being the LG is on the cusp of being considered an ultra contrast unit. Not quite there, but close.
None of the units you've mentioned are even considered near that point. It is also sharper than most LCD or LCOS projectors.
Without an iris neither DLP will match it contrast..that's a given.
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post #1984 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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The native contrast of the LG is not very high, if I remember correctly it was around 2000:1 to 3000:1, lower than the Mits hc4000. It is almost considered high contrast because of the IRIS, but still not quite there. Think about that for a second, even with an IRIS, still not quite there. Almost every other projector reviewed by Art that has an IRIS was considered High contrast, except for the 8350, but the 8350's IRIS was nerf'd.


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post #1985 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The native contrast of the LG is not very high, if I remember correctly it was around 2000:1 to 3000:1, lower than the Mits hc4000. It is almost considered high contrast because of the IRIS, but still not quite there. Think about that for a second, even with an IRIS, still not quite there. Almost every other projector reviewed by Art that has an IRIS was considered High contrast, except for the 8350, but the 8350's IRIS was nerf'd.

This is true! You have to admit though, the LG is a lot of projector for the money right now. I wouldn't have considered it at its former price, but now it is IMO a good option to other units at the 1.3k price, that is when you factor in the extra lamp.

Native is then at least as good as the Panasonic AE4000 without the Iris correct?
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post #1986 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Yah if someone is looking for a very bright projector with the best blacks at that price with no RBE, then I am guessing so. However, for me I'd rather just have a DLP to be honest. If someone doesn't mind RBE and wants the best "IRIS" blacks, the Benq w6000's IRIS works better than the LG's.

One thing is for sure, nothing will beat this Viewsonic Pro8200 at the refurb price, you can hardly even find 720p refurb units at the Viewsonics price, much less a 1080p with Dark Chip 3 and zoom capabilities for 16:9 screens. Still can't believe how good this projector is for its price. At this price, the occasional RBE doesn't make me feel bad either, hah.


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post #1987 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 08:59 AM
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Yup..I know you're diehard Mits and DLP fan. lol
Love DLP as well! If the JVC doesn't workout. I've got word of a SP8602 available at a great price . I also noticed a Digital Projection M-Vision Cine 230 near my budget. This should be a monster of a DLP! If it is still available after the JVC arrives, I may move on too it.
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post #1988 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

You are right, zooming gives better quality (and 16:9 content will also be sharper and brighter than they would be using the digital scaling method).

Unfortunately the Mits has no lens shift. So when you zoom out to make your 2.35 movies bigger, the image gets lower and lower. The only way to compensate for this is to do what I've done and actually have two shelves for the projector, and use the higher one for 2.35 movies and the lower for 16:9 movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

To be clear, zooming only positively affects 16:9 as you're using the same number of non-scaled pixels in 2.35 regardless, 1920x822. And while it's theoretically better to optically zoom to 16:9 in a 2.35 CIH setup, since the 16:9 image is smaller (at least width wise), it would in theory matter less.

Maybe curttard can elaborate more as I guess he might of tested this theory? Also curttard, do you find you have to refocus every time you optically zoom?

Though as curttard mentioned, with no lens shift you would have to reposition the PJ if you optically zoom, as he has done with 2 different shelf mount heights.

Curttard/Fleaman,

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm still considering a couple of projectors for a fairly small (15x16) but open room. I'd like to use a 96" wide CIH screen (103" diagonal). My highest priority is watching 2.35:1 movies in well controlled lighting which is why I'm intrigued by the HC4000, especially for the price.

In close second is being able to watch regular 16:9 programming in very moderately controlled lighting. For this I'm considering the Panny 4000 since with its CIH zooming, not only will 16:9 mode get true 1920x1080 resolution, but having all pixels available should improve brightness significantly. I guess in either case, having only a 84" diagonal display in 16:9 mode will also help.

I appreciate any thoughts.

-Darrell
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post #1989 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I would buy (2) DLP's and setup each one at a different zoom position before I would buy a Panny 4000, just my thoughts.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would buy (2) DLP's and setup each one at a different zoom position before I would buy a Panny 4000, just my thoughts.

Any word on how TI is doing on native 21:9 DLP panels?
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post #1991 of 2858 Old 11-13-2011, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would buy (2) DLP's and setup each one at a different zoom position before I would buy a Panny 4000, just my thoughts.

Dang
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post #1992 of 2858 Old 11-14-2011, 12:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Dang

Remember though, that's just me, not everyone feels that way. I don't think the Panny 4000 is bad, but I like DLP a lot better.


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post #1993 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 01:28 PM
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wow! I need some sleep after reading all the information regarding this projector!
My HC4000 arrives tomorrow, just in time for a weekend of projector fun! =)
I was really concerned about mounting it so I had to read the whole thread
to grasp what I was up against. The problem is that I can't mount the project
perfectly because my theater is already finished and has a fixed 106" DaLite
Cinema Vision screen (1.3 gain).

Ceiling is 8.8" and the screen is mounted at 36" (3') from the floor. So i'll be -.7"
for the ceiling mount. (using a 2.5" slim mountwish I could mount flush). I'm
so close to a 1:1 perfect install, but oh well.

@coderguy said 3" with tilt should be good.
@bishopt says his ceiling is about 8' (???) , 106" screen and he tilted it up 10-15" with only
two clicks of keystone.

with these facts I'm confident that my setup is possible and hopefully will only need at most two clicks of keystone

@bishopt he makes a good point about moving the projector back. wouldn't that effect the throw angle? seems like if its possible to move it back and use some of the zoom we can mitigate some problems
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post #1994 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johne_G View Post

wow! I need some sleep after reading all the information regarding this projector!
My HC4000 arrives tomorrow, just in time for a weekend of projector fun! =)

It's awesome, the first time I got my Mits, I never knew a projector could look that good, I am totally serious. I had seen movies and other projectors, but when I set it up, I was blown away, and I was a 4-year projector user already.

Since the Mits experience, I have not been able to be blown away again, maybe a JVC will change that, maybe not.

It is kind of funny I am using this Viewsonic 8200, I mean what I am doing, where is my Mits?!?!!
(well it was cheap, what can I say)


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post #1995 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 02:09 PM
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i'm upgrading from a HC4900, original bulb at 1800hrs. I've been disappointed with the contrast and dark levels lately so I figured waiting 3yrs is long enough for an upgrade. i've also lived with a dust blob since 2nd month of ownership...its in lower left corner and only noticeable during black pictures.

i'm hoping this upgrade is more than just incremental. its painful moving from a motorized zoom/lens shift projector to a fixed. I was very tempted by the 8350 and frankly I would have purchased it but I was very turned off by the white case. This thread makes me feel good about my HC4000 purchase as I have dedicated theater room without any windows.

I watch most of my media on a Windows 7 Media Center PC and a lot of .mkv files in XBMC. I notice the problems on dark movies in XBMC. While watching bluray on a PS3 I typically don't have any complaints with the picture and I was blown away with the picture while watching Transformers 3 a few weeks ago (bluray).
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post #1996 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 02:28 PM
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@coderguy GREAT work on the calculator. good design and easy to use. v.2 is a 1.0 beta IMO. looking at the source you have javascript skillz.
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post #1997 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I appreciate the comments on the app.

There are actually a few bugs, mostly graphically and in 2.35 modes. I just haven't motivated myself yet to get to the next version, haven't really worked on it lately, but eventually I'll get back to it.


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post #1998 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 03:17 PM
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@coderguy cool, i'm also a "coderguy", my first and only public work is a photo management app in apple's app store "photofuze"...daily job is coding. i'm working on an ebay competitor on my moonlight hours these day.
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post #1999 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johne_G View Post

wow! I need some sleep after reading all the information regarding this projector!
My HC4000 arrives tomorrow, just in time for a weekend of projector fun! =)
I was really concerned about mounting it so I had to read the whole thread
to grasp what I was up against. The problem is that I can't mount the project
perfectly because my theater is already finished and has a fixed 106" DaLite
Cinema Vision screen (1.3 gain).

Ceiling is 8.8" and the screen is mounted at 36" (3') from the floor. So i'll be -.7"
for the ceiling mount. (using a 2.5" slim mountwish I could mount flush). I'm
so close to a 1:1 perfect install, but oh well.

@coderguy said 3" with tilt should be good.
@bishopt says his ceiling is about 8' (???) , 106" screen and he tilted it up 10-15" with only
two clicks of keystone.

with these facts I'm confident that my setup is possible and hopefully will only need at most two clicks of keystone

@bishopt he makes a good point about moving the projector back. wouldn't that effect the throw angle? seems like if its possible to move it back and use some of the zoom we can mitigate some problems

Congrats on the getting the projector I think you will like it very much....any reason you don't want to drop your screen any besides being a major pain? 3' could be a little high but everyone has issues to deal with...but I have mine around 25" and it works pretty well but I don't have a back row of chairs..I'm actually wanting to replace my screen material and hccv was one of them that I was looking for, right now I have a neg .8 grey screen and would like to get a + gain screen, which the HCCV is rated @ 1.1 if I remember correctly...let me know what you think of the combination when you get everything set up..I would be curious to what you think about the HCCV and HC4000 combination...Thanks.

War Eagle!!!
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post #2000 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 03:39 PM
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I'm in the middle of doing an install for a friend, just did the uverse re-wire and working on getting all of the theater wiring run...but once all that is done I will be doing a full calibration, the one area that I never have done on mine is a saturation calibration to make sure the colors are right..my disk didn't have the panels to do it so I am looking for a disc, which I think the one in the avs calibration thread might have the saturation panels...if anyone can verify this or know of which ones do have the saturation stuff included let me know...probably 2 days away from doing that...using an i1 display 2 and HCFR which I think can do all that I need I know it can do the d6500 stuff since I have done mine...Curttard or anyone have any information I'd appreciate it

War Eagle!!!
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post #2001 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 03:56 PM
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I actually had some trouble with the color calibrations, maybe it's my sensor (3 years old or so), but I couldn't get the readings to budge most of the time, even if I cranked the settings all the way in one direction or the other. If I remember right, I gave up and put it all back at default.
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post #2002 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johne_G View Post

@coderguy cool, i'm also a "coderguy", my first and only public work is a photo management app in apple's app store "photofuze"...daily job is coding. i'm working on an ebay competitor on my moonlight hours these day.

Ahh good deal, well you'll love the projector, we are all sure about that.


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post #2003 of 2858 Old 11-17-2011, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I actually had some trouble with the color calibrations, maybe it's my sensor (3 years old or so), but I couldn't get the readings to budge most of the time, even if I cranked the settings all the way in one direction or the other. If I remember right, I gave up and put it all back at default.

Yeah that's the bad part of the meters is that they tend to go bad over time (especially if not stored properly).

Jason
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post #2004 of 2858 Old 11-18-2011, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopt View Post

Congrats on the getting the projector I think you will like it very much....any reason you don't want to drop your screen any besides being a major pain? 3' could be a little high but everyone has issues to deal with...but I have mine around 25" and it works pretty well but I don't have a back row of chairs..I'm actually wanting to replace my screen material and hccv was one of them that I was looking for, right now I have a neg .8 grey screen and would like to get a + gain screen, which the HCCV is rated @ 1.1 if I remember correctly...let me know what you think of the combination when you get everything set up..I would be curious to what you think about the HCCV and HC4000 combination...Thanks.

I have speakers installed in the wall. I can move it 3" down but then my speaker arrangement will look bad as the center channel would be up against the screen. I also have a 2nd row of seats on a 12" rise. I was really considering moving the screen but 3" probably isn't worth all the effort.
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post #2005 of 2858 Old 11-18-2011, 10:31 AM
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hey guys, I know how far back the projector calculator recommends as the minimum and i'm currently at 11' for the projector from the screen. isn't it true that (if possible) I should keep the zoom in at the optimal range in the middle of the zoom? 13.4' according to elitecalculator for 106". Is it correct that I get the best optics at that settings? But then I sacrifice some of the lumens output?

new question, at 500 hours do most of you make some adjustments to get more light output? what about 1000, 1500, 2000...
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post #2006 of 2858 Old 11-19-2011, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Sweet spots can vary a bit. I have seen a tiny bit of CA introduced on these DLP's when you are at or near closest throw, but it's not a huge amount. I would mount it wherever you think is best, mid-zoom should be fine. You can get a little bit more native contrast (darker blacks) by mounting it farther back, but then you lose some lumens, so have to decide on what trade-off you need. I don't think on this projector sharpness is too big of a concern even at closest throw, it's already so sharp, but it can help a little to back off a bit.

The last question on brightness is going to completely depend on how your lamp has aged, screen size, etc...

Eventually most of us have to put the lamp in high around 1000-1500 hours, and some may also have to enable BC and/or Sports Mode. However, if you have a smaller screen or a high gain screen, then you might make it even longer.


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post #2007 of 2858 Old 11-19-2011, 12:27 PM
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So, once i got the Mits all setup and looking good, i treated myself to a Audyssey DynamicEQ firmware upgrade for my Denon receiver......

Wow. This room kills !!!! I had to turn everything off and collect my thoughts hahahahaha
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post #2008 of 2858 Old 11-19-2011, 01:15 PM
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how common is it for there to be an Audyssey firmware upgrade? I have two Onkyo with it...think it needs an upgrade? (been 1 1/2 years)
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post #2009 of 2858 Old 11-19-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Johne_G View Post

how common is it for there to be an Audyssey firmware upgrade? I have two Onkyo with it...think it needs an upgrade? (been 1 1/2 years)

Not sure. This one has been available for a while, it was $100.00
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post #2010 of 2858 Old 11-19-2011, 10:46 PM
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hc4000 installed. I needed 2-4 of keystone correction but just left it at 2 because I don't want to distort image or lose resolution. My mount is actually 6-7" so I ordered a 2.5" mount which hopefully will fix a lot of the keystone. the picture is very bright in low lamp mode, BC off, cinema gama...I have a 1.3 gain screen.

Picture is stunning. I watched a little tonight. Tomorrow i'm excited to watch NFL. I'll also watch a bluray.

one major show stopper for me, which im afraid is probably common among all DLP projectors, is a high pitch sound. its the color wheel, right? I'm really hopeful that its not a common problem. It is very loud. It louder than the fan noise. If I put the projector in "standard" lamp mode the high pitch sound is the same as the fan noise. My previous hc4900 has a fan noise of 19db...it was silent. No noise from my old projector at all (also was LCD). I would be fine with fan noise. High pitch squeals are a deal breaker.

any advice?
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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