The Three 1280x800 LED Clones - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 429 Old 10-01-2011, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

I gamed on the Qumi in 3D at 1280x720 as well as 1280x800. While not the greatest with it's reported 172 lumens, it sufficed. So I would not say extremely, since the same .45 HD DLP chipset is used.

That's another product though. These clones seem to all have the same hardware in them, running the same software (just with a different interface skin).

I guess if anyone wants to know what the K330 will do, I can check if someone tells me how. Unless it's already out there, that is.
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post #362 of 429 Old 10-01-2011, 08:01 AM
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I'm not sure myself, I can't find anything posted in regards to 3D on the PLED-W500 other than where it mentions 3D at 120Hz. I do see it mentioned that it's slated for a mid-October launch. You can take and look at the EDID for the PJ and see what they have listed for supported timings. You can use a free program called Monitor Asset Manager http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

I posted the Qumi but I had to chop part of the descriptors off make it fit to post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post20774478

Look for the 120Hz listings such as

800 x 600p at 120Hz - VESA STD
1024 x 768p at 120Hz - VESA STD
1280 x 720p at 120Hz - VESA STD
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post #363 of 429 Old 10-01-2011, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

You can take and look at the EDID for the PJ and see what they have listed for supported timings.

640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768.
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post #364 of 429 Old 10-01-2011, 09:16 AM
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Well 1024x768 was to be expected, it was the spec released from the onset for 3D on these models. I simply do not understand why 1280x720 was not implemented as it was on the Qumi. I'm not sure if it's simply limited by fimware or some processing chip. But, if the Viewsonic does 720P 3D, I'd buy it for gaming, if positive reviews came back for it. BTW the Qumi was great for 3D movies, just a little dark in some scenes. Of course the room had to be fairly dark as well due to the low lumens. The thing with the Qumi was that I set it up on a tripod and never moved it, for 2 weeks the focus was dead on. Then slowly it got worse, to where the lower left quadrant would not focus clearly. Other than that I loved it, but opted for the refund due to it seeming to be a quality control issue.
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post #365 of 429 Old 10-01-2011, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDudley View Post

http://i54.tinypic.com/14ilvn8.jpg

20ms is a little more than 1 frame if running at 60Hz (1000ms/60 = 16.667ms). The Benq LCD is probably around 15~20ms slower than a CRT. So we'd get around 30~40ms lag, which is around 2-2.5 frames lag, not too bad at all.

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Originally Posted by Amber Ale View Post

So the older square (last years) led projectors would be faster for gaming?

I'm ready to just buy a Acer k11 or LG and be done with this wait and compare and wait some more.

Can't get away from the 1 frame delay because DLP is also converting a full color image in RAM to 3~6 fields (RGBCMY) for display. But as shown above, it doesn't looks all that bad. 2~3 frames of lag compared to a CRT is very good and I would think it probably only affects the most hardcore of gamers. Rhythm games like guitar hero would likely still work as intended for the casual gamer.

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Originally Posted by HenryDudley View Post

The K330 seems to perform the same or slightly better than my BenQ monitor that has a claimed "maximum response time" of 5 ms. I don't play any fast-paced shooter games though, so I can't comment on how well it does in practice.

Input lag and response time of a LCD are 2 distinct issues. Let say you had a 100ms (10th of a second) input lag, but have a 0ms response time. If you're watching movies, then its all good, you would never see ghost trails because the LCD is infinitely fast, but anything interactive would make the user feel "disconnected". ie. moving a mouse and seeing the pointer move 1/10th of a second later.
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post #366 of 429 Old 10-01-2011, 04:12 PM
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Thanks guys.

Especially HenryDudley for doing the test!!


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Originally Posted by anomaly123 View Post

20ms is a little more than 1 frame if running at 60Hz (1000ms/60 = 16.667ms). The Benq LCD is probably around 15~20ms slower than a CRT. So we'd get around 30~40ms lag, which is around 2-2.5 frames lag, not too bad at all.


Yeah I agree looks to be about 2 frames. Not bad, was hoping for 1 frame. If anyone has access to a CRT you can really see what the input lag is on these PJs.

Again big thanks. I am contemplating buying three of these for an eyefinity setup, that is why I asked before I drop some major coin on this setup.
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post #367 of 429 Old 10-02-2011, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Well guys, after all i contributed to this thread i guess i'll be out from posting relevant information any longer, the reason being that i just ordered a Runco Q-750D LED projector showroom demo model in like-new-condition (comes with outboard box for video processing/input selector) for less than 1/3 its msrp of $18,000.00 !
Call me crazy, but i couldn't pass that up : my "dream" state-of-the-art native 1920x1080P LED projector with best-in-class DMD4 chipset from TI, top of the line video processing, hardly used and sold by HT installer company for far less than $6,000.00...Well, that was just too good to let go and upon seeing the ad i was very surprised that no one else had snagged it before i did.
I am not too happy with its huge 22"x22"x9" size nor its 50 Lbs. weight, but i'll have to live with those "limitations"...Now, should i do some "movin' on up" over to the "Digital Projectors Over $3.000 USD MSRP" AVS section and forget about you all "bottom feeders", hah !
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post #368 of 429 Old 10-02-2011, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Well guys, after all i contributed to this thread i guess i'll be out from posting relevant information any longer, the reason being that i just ordered a Runco Q-750D LED projector showroom demo model in like-new-condition (comes with outboard box for video processing/input selector) for less than 1/3 its msrp of $18,000.00 !
Call me crazy, but i couldn't pass that up : my "dream" state-of-the-art native 1920x1080P LED projector with best-in-class DMD4 chipset from TI, top of the line video processing, hardly used and sold by HT installer company for far less than $6,000.00...Well, that was just too good to let go and upon seeing the ad i was very surprised that no one else had snagged it before i did.
I am not too happy with its huge 22"x22"x9" size nor its 50 Lbs. weight, but i'll have to live with those "limitations"...Now, should i do some "movin' on up" over to the "Digital Projectors Over $3.000 USD MSRP" AVS section and forget about you all "bottom feeders", hah !

Congrats on the mammoth purchase! Just one last question before you leave this side of the forum, since you started this thread about the clones, you might as well finish it... which one do you think you would've bought at the end?
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post #369 of 429 Old 10-02-2011, 06:00 PM
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Congratulations, and my condolences.

I hope you enjoy the purchase....but....I hope that wasn't an impulse buy....cause if it is.....no comment.

Bye bye MCaugusto, I guess it's time for you to join the upper class of AVS society.

P.S. What about your beloved HX300g? Letting that one go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Well guys, after all i contributed to this thread i guess i'll be out from posting relevant information any longer, the reason being that i just ordered a Runco Q-750D LED projector showroom demo model in like-new-condition (comes with outboard box for video processing/input selector) for less than 1/3 its msrp of $18,000.00 !
Call me crazy, but i couldn't pass that up : my "dream" state-of-the-art native 1920x1080P LED projector with best-in-class DMD4 chipset from TI, top of the line video processing, hardly used and sold by HT installer company for far less than $6,000.00...Well, that was just too good to let go and upon seeing the ad i was very surprised that no one else had snagged it before i did.
I am not too happy with its huge 22"x22"x9" size nor its 50 Lbs. weight, but i'll have to live with those "limitations"...Now, should i do some "movin' on up" over to the "Digital Projectors Over $3.000 USD MSRP" AVS section and forget about you all "bottom feeders", hah !

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post #370 of 429 Old 10-02-2011, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Raine0 >>> Of the four clones i think i would have picked the ACER K330 after seeing the results of the test reports from ZOL.com as well as the fact that its thermal analysis image shows it to be one of two clones where its hottest air exhaust port is the one located far from lens on the left side of case.
I still think that very poor ANSI contrast ratio must be a fluke or a misprint, perhaps ?
PoisonWolf >>> Thanks and, no, it wasn't an impulse buy, it was more like an opportunity that literally appeared out of thin air that i couldn't pass up as i put aside some $$$ years ago to buy a native 1920x180 projector that would LAST me awhile as i am a very heavy user, and now with LEDs available and seeing what those LED colors did for my beloved LG HX300G i figured i would wait a little longer to get my affordable "dream" pj with LEDs for illumination.
I think for now i'll keep the HX300G as a back-up projector, or maybe get me one of those heavy XXX-thick gold neck chain so that i can hang that tiny pj from my neck when "clubbing" and yet look totally cool, hah !
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post #371 of 429 Old 10-02-2011, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Well guys, after all i contributed to this thread i guess i'll be out from posting relevant information any longer, the reason being that i just ordered a Runco Q-750D LED projector showroom demo model in like-new-condition (comes with outboard box for video processing/input selector) for less than 1/3 its msrp of $18,000.00 !
Call me crazy, but i couldn't pass that up : my "dream" state-of-the-art native 1920x1080P LED projector with best-in-class DMD4 chipset from TI, top of the line video processing, hardly used and sold by HT installer company for far less than $6,000.00...Well, that was just too good to let go and upon seeing the ad i was very surprised that no one else had snagged it before i did.
I am not too happy with its huge 22"x22"x9" size nor its 50 Lbs. weight, but i'll have to live with those "limitations"...Now, should i do some "movin' on up" over to the "Digital Projectors Over $3.000 USD MSRP" AVS section and forget about you all "bottom feeders", hah !

You lucky dog, I had to decide on a 1080p led or a two projector set up. I'm on pre order for the RS55 and sold my RS40 3 weeks ago. I'm cool with the ML500 but when the price comes down for a 1080p led with at least 1000 lumens, I'm all over it
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post #372 of 429 Old 10-03-2011, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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You know guys, another reason why i jumped at this opportunity to buy a native 1920x1080 LED pj for such low price is that i estimated will be at least another two years or so until we see similar pjs selling for msrp of $5.000, and i figured why wait until then if i can get this Runco right now, and finally get to enjoy true HD in all its glory ?
Right now, afaik, the least expensive native 1920x1080 LED projector for sale is the recently announced Runco Q-650i with msrp of $9.999; How long do you think it will be until that price drops by half ? And then how much longer for price-breaking the next barrier of under $3.000 ?
blee0120 >>> That's a JVC RS55 you're talking about, correct ?
I am sure it throws an unbeliveably beautiful picture - i read countless test reports of JVC LCOS projectors over the years and they all shared that characteristic from inception - but personally i could not see myself spending that kind of dough for a lamp-based projector right now; Call me crazy but i am one of those guys who always looked at and used my projectors (CRT and pocket LED) over the years as if they were regular TVs, without any worries about lamp longevity, temporal color change, picture dimming, bulbs exploding, etc, and so i tend to run my pjs really hard, just like regular TV, 6~8~10 hours every day.
As far as lumen output i figured if i am so satisfied right now using a high-gain screen mated to a "pocket" LED pj that puts out less than 200 lumens, i imagine those 500~600 lumen from a calibrated Runco LED pj would suffice for my needs and screen size.
Just out of curiosity, before making your purchase did you consider looking around for used/demo top-of-line LED pjs in your price range ?
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post #373 of 429 Old 10-03-2011, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

You know guys, another reason why i jumped at this opportunity to buy a native 1920x1080 LED pj for such low price is that i estimated will be at least another two years or so until we see similar pjs selling for msrp of $5.000, and i figured why wait until then if i can get this Runco right now, and finally get to enjoy true HD in all its glory ?
Right now, afaik, the least expensive native 1920x1080 LED projector for sale is the recently announced Runco Q-650i with msrp of $9.999; How long do you think it will be until that price drops by half ? And then how much longer for price-breaking the next barrier of under $3.000 ?

It's really a no brainer. One of the best brands and its 1080p. You can't go wrong. Even tho I like my ML500, its not in the same league as my RS40 and definitely not your led Runco
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post #374 of 429 Old 10-03-2011, 06:00 AM
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Out of curiosity, I squeezed into the upper 3k forum...and I found THIS THREAD.

Now THAT, looks very interesting. LAWL.
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post #375 of 429 Old 10-04-2011, 02:42 PM
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As long as we're mentioning over 3K, the new JVC projector line up being promoted at the Cedia 2011 JVC Booth are rumored to have given the "Tin Man" wood. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=449qR-O49H0 Also a Cine4Home article on it http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...r=chr-devicevm
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post #376 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 07:40 AM
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Just curious, is anyone still waiting and gonna purchase the NEC?

I guess there's the people that've already bought the Acer or Optoma, the people that are still on the fence (me ) and the people that are giving them all the finger.

I'd say the NEC will be out and about in around 2 weeks to a month here. So I'm thinking should I order the Optoma now and return it if there's smth I don't like (ie. start up focus issues) and then wait for the NEC. Or just wait for the NEC and then make a decision. NEC will be a bit more expensive and I still dunno is it worth that premium price tbh.

I find it's very odd that owners of the Optoma are saying very differ things about it, from picture is great to picture is crap! It's either a QC or varying expectations issue.

Either way I'd say I'll be giving one of these guys a try. Still waiting for my first pj.
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post #377 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine0 View Post

Just curious, is anyone still waiting and gonna purchase the NEC?

Yes. I have the Optoma now, but im thinking of returning it and picking up the NEC when it comes out. The three big problems with the Optoma are focus drift, CA, and noise. I'm hoping the NEC will atleast do better in the focus drift department, but even if it doesn't, I really like that it has a lens cover and just enough zoom to make installation and adjustments much, much easier. The Acer doesnt sound like its any better than the Optoma, so im excited to see if NEC can make any improvements in the problem areas.
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post #378 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altdelete47 View Post

... I really like that it has a lens cover and just enough zoom to make installation and adjustments much, much easier...

where do you got the information it has a manual zoom?

the slide on top of the projector is for adjusting the focus
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post #379 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 01:03 PM
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Ok decided to wait some more and see what the NEC has to offer. Started a new thread specifically for it... let the hype begin!
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post #380 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 01:46 PM
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Personally I'm waiting to see if either the NEC or Viewsonic release with 1280x720P capabilities, if they do and have good reviews (no focus issues, etc...) I'd gladly buy one. I'm by no means holding my breath, but I see a glimmer of hope with the PLED-W500 listing the VP3D1 as an accessory. If not, 3D at 1024x768 rule these out for me and I'll look into other options.
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post #381 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 02:01 PM
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991$
http://www.amazon.com/Sonic-PLED-W50.../dp/B005LHM6OA

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post #382 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 02:12 PM
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Quote:

That is mighty up there in terms of cost.
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post #383 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis_bickle View Post

where do you got the information it has a manual zoom?

the slide on top of the projector is for adjusting the focus

Oh. Perhaps I am mistaken. The specs i've read say:

Zoom: 1 to 1.1
Zoom Type: Manual Zoom

And yes, I assumed that was what the slide on top was, but you're right. That is the focus. So the specs are referring to digital zoom, then? My bad.
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post #384 of 429 Old 10-05-2011, 10:27 PM
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Hopefully the reported "color saturation" of 62% from Zol as listed on MCaugusto's comparison table on page 4 of this thread for the PLED-W500 changes with the production releases. It's also listed for $733 atm at http://www.pcconnectionexpress.com/I...8a8d2672cb1fc9 Amazon will list manufacturers suggested retail a lot of times until the product becomes available.
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post #385 of 429 Old 10-06-2011, 02:01 AM
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I'm a bit confused by those 'saturation' figures. I assume they refer to the percentage of the NTSC colour gamut that the device can reproduce. In which case 62% sounds like a sRGB device (i.e. like a standard computer monitor) as opposed to a wide-gamut device.
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post #386 of 429 Old 10-06-2011, 06:15 PM
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Just wondering, with the high noise level coming out of these clones. Is it possible to buy one of these, pad it from the inside, cut a few holes in it and use it as a decent hush box? Will it fit? It would be a quick, easy and cheap job if it does.

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post #387 of 429 Old 10-08-2011, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine0 View Post

Just wondering, with the high noise level coming out of these clones. Is it possible to buy one of these, pad it from the inside, cut a few holes in it and use it as a decent hush box? Will it fit? It would be a quick, easy and cheap job if it does.

You would need to ensure the air intakes/vents were not covered. Unfortunately that is where most of the noise comes from.
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post #388 of 429 Old 10-08-2011, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altdelete47 View Post

Yes. I have the Optoma now, but im thinking of returning it and picking up the NEC when it comes out. The three big problems with the Optoma are focus drift, CA, and noise. I'm hoping the NEC will atleast do better in the focus drift department

I don't see the logic in people clinging to this belief as one clone after another "falls." Let's face it, they're all the same machine regardless of how different the casing looks. I would even bet money on the NEC having the exact same hardware, same cooling, the same software and the same optical assembly (including lens).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine0 View Post

Just wondering, with the high noise level coming out of these clones. Is it possible to buy one of these, pad it from the inside, cut a few holes in it and use it as a decent hush box? Will it fit? It would be a quick, easy and cheap job if it does.

I doubt it. Putting it in something padded that small would likely make it overheat.
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post #389 of 429 Old 10-09-2011, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDudley View Post

I don't see the logic in people clinging to this belief as one clone after another "falls." Let's face it, they're all the same machine regardless of how different the casing looks. I would even bet money on the NEC having the exact same hardware, same cooling, the same software and the same optical assembly (including lens).

Maybe it's time to take a second look at the (cheaper now) last years "square" led projectors. Was there a clear winner in that group?

Probably LG or the Acer?
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post #390 of 429 Old 10-09-2011, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
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Maybe it's time to take a second look at the (cheaper now) last years "square" led projectors.

Maybe, but I'm happy with the K330 apart from the fact that it could be quieter. I wouldn't trade it for an older less bright square model.
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