AVS Forum banner

The Three 1280x800 LED Clones

66K views 428 replies 58 participants last post by  DLPProjectorfan 
#1 ·
It appears that coming August/September we'll be able to get three clones of the same native 1280x800 "Pico" LED projector spec'ed at 500 lumens : the Optoma ML-500, the Viewsonic PLED-W500 and the Acer K330.

From the pictures i've seen, the Optoma and the Viewsonic have the same inputs/outputs - detachable AC power cord, HDMI, USB, Mini USB, VGA, Composite Video, S-Video, A/V IN, Audio Out - with the control buttons located on top of case to its left (as seen from behind) and offering different designs; Aesthetically speaking, i thought the design of the control buttons on the Viewsonic PLED-W500 looked better than the "diagonal" look of the same set of controls on the Optoma ML-500 and both cases look shiny black.

On the lookalike Acer K330 the S-Video Input has been taken away and the same set of controls described above has been moved toward the center rear of the case (as seen from behind), displaying a smaller rectangular design look of "silver-metal buttons control station" completely surrounded by combination of glossy/flat black case, giving it a much nicer look, i thought.

Interesting enough, Acer claims a contrast ratio of 5.000:1 while the other two manufacturers state 2.000:1 for their products, so i think that's hyperbole from Acer.

The Optoma msrp is $700 while the Viewsonic and Acer appear to be $650.

The Acer is supposed to be available in August and the other two in September.
 
See less See more
#177 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k /forum/post/0



that review of the Optoma and Acer seemed like there was a fair amount of differences in IQ (for HT use) in comparison to one another. It looks like Acer and Optoma are cooking the firmware / calibration different than one another.


The Acer seemed to stand out as the projector that was more oriented for HT use. Is there different information available since that review?

Can you send me that link? I remember a comparison between the acer and viewsonic
 
#178 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 /forum/post/20871223


Can you send me that link? I remember a comparison between the acer and viewsonic

I'll have to look around, I can't recall what thread it was in, but the guys reviewing seemed like knowledgeable and were able to point out obvious differences between the Acer and Optoma, to the point where I wanted to hold off for the Acer.
 
#179 ·
You're comparing apples to oranges. It is indeed true, that you get more resolution for less money with televisions, and they are indeed more practical.


However, coming from a television, I can tell you right now that there is something weird about watching movies on a projector relative to a television. It's just better, simply put. This is my experience thus far after having used the HX350t for two or so months now. And really, it's not about the size. Put a 55-inch LED HDTV and a 55-inch pj image, watching a movie on a 55-inch PJ would still look better. With HDTV, you got to put up with all the crap like artifical smoothness, and if you disable that "feature", you have to deal with ghosting, etc. After all, remember that all "LED HDTVs" are still essentially LCD HDTVs with LED backlighting.


My two cents.


About noise (you might have mentioned it in the previous post), what other devices are connected to the PJ? In my setup, I can't even hear the PJ running because the PS3 is like a horse with a soar throat moaning constantly.


Lastly, it's true that televisions offer a better "picture quality". But I personally consider "picture experience" to be more important.


Quote:
Originally Posted by colafan /forum/post/20870232


Like i said, when just talking about the screen size, i would love to use a led projector. But i had issues with the fan noise and admitted, a 120inch screen size with the aviable led projectors does not offer the same picture quality like a tv of the lowest price category.


I think thats why most people choose a smaller tv screen over a home cinema projector. And really not everyone has that much large rooms that it is still fun to watch a 120inch screen. I guess most people are very happy with a maximum screen size of 60-80 inch. Everything beyond is a bit too much for the average users home. Thats why most people in cinemas prefer seats farer away from the screen, because there is a point where it is simply too big and you cannot see the full picture anymore and get stressed with moving your head from one to the other corner.


Thats the failure the manufacturers do, they try to push home projectors on a level same as projectors for audiences up to hundreds of people. But how many people have such big living rooms, not to speak about the hot air from the cooling and the more and more increasing power costs. The advantage of LED was the less power usage, but they get closer and closer to bulb projectors power consumption.


LED would be perfect for smaller dimensions, with acceptable power consumption and tolerable fan noises. But cinema projector in a hamburger box, that is just the worst of both worlds in a home users room. A bit less with more quality would hit the market, because big screen is an argument. But thats the only argument so far, as resolution and picture quality of TVs is way higher for less money.
 
#180 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k /forum/post/20871020


that review of the Optoma and Acer seemed like there was a fair amount of differences in IQ (for HT use) in comparison to one another. It looks like Acer and Optoma are cooking the firmware / calibration different than one another.


The Acer seemed to stand out as the projector that was more oriented for HT use. Is there different information available since that review?

I doubt that any of the three 500$ dollar DATA PJ,s are going to be tuned to bring out nuances for the HT crowd...It more probably just what it appears (Occam's razor), a bid to sell more pjs to brand haters/brand loyal .I cant think of any data pj that was rebadged that has done this.you also have to ask yourself why would they. I could be wrong.
 
#181 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k /forum/post/0



I'll have to look around, I can't recall what thread it was in, but the guys reviewing seemed like knowledgeable and were able to point out obvious differences between the Acer and Optoma, to the point where I wanted to hold off for the Acer.

I got that too from the review, but I'm sure I will get the first one that comes out first. I just want countless hours of use on my big screen for football season. All the games except for the eagles game will be on the led projector
 
#183 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto
afineman >>> Nice to hear from you again and please don't be so coy !
Like you i was wowed by the HS201 the minute i set it up to the moment i sold it to get the HX300G.

I don't expect to be wowed the same way (we've been spoiled, i'm afraid) going from the HX300G to the ACER K330 but i do expect to be able to sit even closer to my screen than i presently do without seeing any pixels, and since the largest screen size i can fit in my HT room is "only" about 96" diagonal i figure any increase in perceived size would be a welcome addition.

BTW, i don't know if you guys noticed it but there is a link on the LG HW300T for the owner's manual and indeed it has similar CMS and grey-scale tracking as used on the HX300G, PLUS what appear to be some extra calibration "goodies".

PS : afineman, please tell us more about your experience with the Qumi; Appart from the start-up focus issue (did it happen only during start-up and then did it stabilize completely?), was it about as bright as the HS-201, were you able to sit much closer to screen without noticing pixels, did you notice those darned "diamond-shaped" pixels, how noisy was it, etc,etc ?
Macgo ? the thing is with the new 500 lumen projectors is that you can expand the screen to up to 120 " and if you are running it at 100 " no worries of the picture being out of focus.
 
#184 ·
Macgo ? I never really had a problem with the LG HX-300 with seeing the pixals for most of the time I am sitting at least 11 to 12 feet away from the screen.

The thing I don't like about it is the dull look of it, yes, I can turn up the brightness but that does not always work in all the seen in a movie.

Don't even bother to use it for games if you think your going to get a clear image like on a computer monitor or CRT HD TV.

The LG HX-300 is adequate for movie watching.
 
#185 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonZA
1024x768 should be able to fit inside 1280x800. Black bars will be at the top,bottom,left and right sides. Or am I wrong?


To test if the Qumi is doing 1:1 mapping we should maybe create a test pattern where we alternate black and white pixels for all 1280x800 pixels and check if every one of the displays correctly.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure you could fit 1024x768 inside 1280x800 but why would you want black bars all around the image ?

Personally i'd rather not get any black bars on top/bottom of image when displaying native 4:3 content from a 16:10 image ratio chip that has 1280x800 pixels, OR if the image doesn't appear too distorted horizontally or vertically and i am not doing any "critical" viewing (blu-ray, dvd, etc) i'll probably let the built-in scaler do its job by using the full 1280x800 pixel grid and damn that image distortion !

I guess it's a matter of choice : by using 1024x768 it would mean thin black bars on top/bottom of image each consisting of 16 horizontal pixels AND wider side black bars each consisting of 128 pixels; By using 960x800 it would mean NO top/bottom black bars BUT each side bar would consist of 160 pixels.

Choices, choices, choices, but, believe me, when i get one of these pjs i'll definitely be playing around with both of these resolutions, notwithstanding my protestations to the contrary.

Insofar as this new HD Pico chip being capable of doing 1:1 mapping, did you see the diagrams posted on the Qumi thread by member anomaly123 and others ? Very illustrative and eye-opening...
 
#188 ·
US distributor claims ML500 will be in stock at the end of this week.
 
#190 ·
Well guys, i managed to download the manuals for the Optoma ML500, ACER K330 and LG HW300T and, as i expected, the manuals for the Optoma and ACER (two of the three clones) are almost identical without any options for CMS and grey-scale tracking adjustments.

The Optoma appear to have three more adjustments under "advanced menu" than the ACER pj has, for "BrilliantColor", "color space" and "inputs" and i think that "BrilliantColor" might be even disabled as it applies only to DLP pjs with standard color wheels; I can only surmise that the Viewsonic PLED-W500 clone will have the same set of adjustments, which is a disappointment to me.

The LG HW300T, being a totally different "beast" on the other hand, offer even more adjustments than my current HX300G, including almost full CMS controls for primary/secondary colors (saturation and tint included, no brightness) and that amazing grey-scale tracking adjustment from 0-IRE (black) to 100-IRE (white) divided in 10 individual controls from 0-IRE to 100-IRE for each primary R/G/B color ! On top of that you have adjustment for lowering/raising black level, just like my HX300G, AND similar control for the white level, as well as dynamic contrast, etc, etc, etc.

I am beginning to wonder if the HW300T is better geared toward home environment users and "cheapstakes videophiles" such as ourselves than business users and that its description of being a "presentation pj" more a virtue of its size, portability, features and pricing.

As far as we've been all able to investigate/search/knitpick, all these pjs appear to be still using the PT-54 LED chipset from Luminus Devices (not the Qumi, which appear to use the PT-39 chipset) and differences in lumen output could be related to the ability of the LED chipset of being driven "harder/hotter" depending on the design wishes of each manufacturer.

However, having pointed out the differences in menu controls for these pjs, i must also point out that the HX300G did not test nearly as well as the Optoma ML500 and Viewsonic W500 on the ZOL.com site for FO/FO contrast and ANSI contrast, so before i make my final decision, which now includes the LG HW300T, i would really/really like to see its test report on the same site for comparison's sake.

I realize i've been hedging this purchase back and forth, left and right, up and down, etc, etc, etc, but it's just that i like to make my purchases of electronic equipment without any equivocations and if after all of that i still have to return the item due to poor performance at least i tried my best to avoid returning it, to the best of my abilities...
 
#193 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 /forum/post/20871737


I got that too from the review, but I'm sure I will get the first one that comes out first. I just want countless hours of use on my big screen for football season. All the games except for the eagles game will be on the led projector

The translated review was for Acer vs Viewsonic I thought? Is there a review somewhere stating that the Acer > Optoma as well?


I might pull the trigger on an Optoma tonight if not.
 
#194 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by parawizard /forum/post/20882752


The translated review was for Acer vs Viewsonic I thought? Is there a review somewhere stating that the Acer > Optoma as well?


I might pull the trigger on an Optoma tonight if not.

There was a comparison that would lead you think that the Acer was better off as a HT projector when comparing color, contrast. Someone will hopefully post the link again.


I am holding off until the Acer arrives since the comparison was relatively convincing (they had them side by side) with a preference leaning towards the Acer for HT duty.
 
#195 ·
That was I was thinking when reading through some posts saying that the Acer and Optoma models went head to head somewhere. I must of somehow missed that completely.



The only comparison I've seen was the Viewsonic against the Acer. I haven't heard anything about the Optoma yet.


zombie10k, are u getting the Acer as soon as it arrives? Or are you waiting for some more reviews on it first? Just to be sure.
 
#196 ·
Even if it wasn't the acer vs Optoma, its safe to say that the acer looked ok as a HT projector. Think I might just order the Optoma tomorrow, but its too bad because I'm out of time until next week. At least it will be there when I get back
 
#197 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine0 /forum/post/20882931


That was I was thinking when reading through some posts saying that the Acer and Optoma models went head to head somewhere. I must of somehow missed that completely.



The only comparison I've seen was the Viewsonic against the Acer. I haven't heard anything about the Optoma yet.


zombie10k, are u getting the Acer as soon as it arrives? Or are you waiting for some more reviews on it first? Just to be sure.

Nah, no waiting.. just jump right in.
I have the QUMI and it's a great little portable projector just to carry around for quick videos on the 32GB internal card, but I need something with more lumens to use as a TV projector for my 142" 2.8 high power screen. The QUMI works, but I need most of the lights out. I think the lumen measurement of the new Acer LED will be perfect for this task. Right now I use my Acer 5360 and will let that thing burn for hours on end since the lamp is inexpensive. About 1/4 the cost of my JVC lamps.


Is there any rumors to the Acer's US release or are we weeks away?
 
#198 ·
Nah, the testing done by ZOL.com was for the Viewsonic W500 and the ACER K330 but i imagine the results already gave us a pretty good idea of what to expect from the Optoma ML500, ANSI contrast between 1.500:1 ~ 2.300:1 and ANSI brightness between 295~370 lumens.

I posted the results for the tests including the Vivitek Qumi on page 4 of this thread.

No US release date for the ACER K330 yet but i imagine it should happen within the month of September.
 
#199 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto /forum/post/20883845


Nah, the testing done by ZOL.com was for the Viewsonic W500 and the ACER K330 but i imagine the results already gave us a pretty good idea of what to expect from the Optoma ML500, ANSI contrast between 1.500:1 ~ 2.300:1 and ANSI brightness between 295~370 lumens.

I posted the results for the tests including the Vivitek Qumi on page 4 of this thread.

No US release date for the ACER K330 yet but i imagine it should happen within the month of September.

thanks for the info. So there was no comparison of the Optoma and Acer? I wonder how close they will be based on factory settings. There seemed to be a fair margin of difference in the zol.com report so each manufacturer must be cooking the firmware differently with default color settings.


Without CMS controls, it would be good to pick the model that is the closest for HT purpose. If it's the same comparison I am thinking of, it seems the Acer stood out over the Viewsonic.
 
#200 ·
Based on the ZOL.com review and comaprison, we have an idea on the Acer and Viewsonic models. But right now the Optoma is still a bit of an unknown quantity.


Sure the Acer, right now, seems the best/safest bet. But still, I would like to know a bit more about the Optoma before I part cash. Since I've waited for this long, I might as well get the best of the 3.
 
#201 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k /forum/post/20884026


thanks for the info. So there was no comparison of the Optoma and Acer? I wonder how close they will be based on factory settings. There seemed to be a fair margin of difference in the zol.com report so each manufacturer must be cooking the firmware differently with default color settings.


Without CMS controls, it would be good to pick the model that is the closest for HT purpose. If it's the same comparison I am thinking of, it seems the Acer stood out over the Viewsonic.

Anomaly123 explained some differences in one of his earlier posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by anomaly123 /forum/post/20808734


The brightness difference comes from the mixing of a white field in addition to the red/green/blue fields. If you look at the color saturation spec, Qumi shows 128%, Acer shows about 100%, Viewsonic shows about 60%. RGB LEDs usually form a 120%~130% NTSC gamut due to the green at 520nm wavelength. What white mixing does is turn on R/G/B at the same time when the panel is showing a white field. The drawback is one trades color gamut area with brightness because the RGB primaries on the CIE1931 chart shift towards the center.


It is likely the Qumi is not doing white mixing, the Acer is doing slight white mixing, and the Viewsonic is doing heavy white mixing. This is a pure electronics tuning issue and depends on the target specs of the projector.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top