The Three 1280x800 LED Clones - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Manamb >>> How exactly did you arrive to the conclusion that according to those numbers the NEC comes second to the Acer for HT applications ?
The NEC has higher FO/FO contrast and ANSI lumen output, whereas the Acer has higher ANSI contrast; Colors from both pjs should look similar onscreen, however the reviewer did point out the excellence of colors from the NEC.
From my point of view, the NEC slightly edges out the Acer pj performancewise, keeping in mind the fact that it appears to run somewhat hotter than the Acer and has a msrp of $800 vs. $700.
BTW guys, i downloaded the NEC L50W product sheet from the company's website and when i noticed the spec for "contrast ratio 2.500:1" i had to smirk and think how refreshing, for a change, to see a spec that is actually too conservative according to an external test reporting of the product ?
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post #242 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 07:45 AM
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I wounder how long before we see leds pj designed for movies
would love one instead of the bulk of a flat screen in my bedroom
but the noise would kill all pleasure
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post #243 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 10:32 AM
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However, the K330 is the only pj with 29dB in eco mode.
NEC eco mode is 32dB.

Full brightness K330 = 35dB / NEC = 38dB

And ML 500?
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post #244 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 10:38 AM
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I hope they're not so noisy that I might as well get a Casio XJ-Axxx instead!

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post #245 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Manamb >>> How exactly did you arrive to the conclusion that according to those numbers the NEC comes second to the Acer for HT applications ?
The NEC has higher FO/FO contrast and ANSI lumen output, whereas the Acer has higher ANSI contrast; Colors from both pjs should look similar onscreen, however the reviewer did point out the excellence of colors from the NEC.
From my point of view, the NEC slightly edges out the Acer pj performancewise, keeping in mind the fact that it appears to run somewhat hotter than the Acer and has a msrp of $800 vs. $700.
BTW guys, i downloaded the NEC L50W product sheet from the company's website and when i noticed the spec for "contrast ratio 2.500:1" i had to smirk and think how refreshing, for a change, to see a spec that is actually too conservative according to an external test reporting of the product ?

Well, IMHO between brightness, color uniformity and saturation figures it could be either the Acer or the NEC, even with the big step up on the FOFO for the NEC, I believe that the brightness, ansi contrast and operation temperature that "could" translate into Fan noise are important characteristics for an HT setup that tips the scale towards the Acer.

So many ideas, so little money!
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post #246 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 10:56 AM
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Under 29dB would be very nice for HT
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post #247 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 11:14 AM
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I believe this will be decide until we get our hands on them, being everything so close it is very difficult to decide only based on these figures which one would be the best for our individual needs and preferences. I guess is still anybody's game. Regardless, thank you for gathering all this valuable information.

So many ideas, so little money!
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post #248 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 11:36 AM
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MCaugusto,
Do you think it would be good to add to the Matrix the Fan Noise for both Dynamic and ECO modes?

So many ideas, so little money!
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post #249 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 11:51 AM
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Optoma ML500 already being sold from 6 sellers and in stock for 650$

http://www.amazon.com/Optomas-ML500-...4988539&sr=8-1

The 29DB ACER K330 and 38DB ML500 is enough to make me wait for the Acer
Different in noise level is huge imo

in case you guys didn't know each extra 10db~ is equal to "twice as loud" of the previous DB, so in short ML500 is almost about twice as loud as the acer k330

Some people already bought the ML500 so I'm waiting for their opinions about the ML500 Noise and image quality
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post #250 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seph22 View Post

Optoma ML500 already being sold from 6 sellers and in stock for 650$

http://www.amazon.com/Optomas-ML500-...4988539&sr=8-1

The 29DB ACER K330 and 38DB ML500 is enough to make me wait for the Acer
Different in noise level is huge imo

in case you guys didn't know each extra 10db~ is equal to "twice as loud" of the previous DB, so in short ML500 is almost about twice as loud as the acer k330

Some people already bought the ML500 so I'm waiting for their opinions about the ML500 Noise and image quality

Are those 38dB of the ML500 in Brigth or Eco mode? becasue the Acer in Bright mode is 35 dB.

So many ideas, so little money!
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post #251 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 12:46 PM
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It looks like the difference between the Acer and the NEC is pretty marginal as far as picture is concerned. If that's the case, I won't bother waiting and paying the extra and I will proceed with the Acer. I think the unit looks better as well so far. Don't like the business look of the NEC.

Things I'm looking out for and are deal breakers with the Acer, is the noise factor and if there's any start up focus issues ala Qumi.
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post #252 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manamb View Post

Are those 38dB of the ML500 in Brigth or Eco mode? becasue the Acer in Bright mode is 35 dB.

To me difference between 35db and 38 is still noticeable
however i have not seen anywhere Optoma ml500 being listed with ECO MODE with lower DB anywhere at all

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-ML500.htm

If you look at other optoma projectors many of them got an Eco mode
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Opto...Time_GT360.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine0 View Post

It looks like the difference between the Acer and the NEC is pretty marginal as far as picture is concerned. If that's the case, I won't bother waiting and paying the extra and I will proceed with the Acer. I think the unit looks better as well so far. Don't like the business look of the NEC.

Things I'm looking out for and are deal breakers with the Acer, is the noise factor and if there's any start up focus issues ala Qumi.

It does look that Acer is making their projector toward home theater setup friendly , if you look at ml500 here http://www.amazon.com/Optomas-ML500-...4994052&sr=8-1
They list that it's not for gaming or home setup focused like their other projectors but more toward Business presentations.

Acer was suppose to be the first to release their 500lumens projector but don't know what happend, its MSRP too is only 650$ vs optoma ml500 with 699$ msrp.
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post #253 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 01:09 PM
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So is the Acer only available in white? The black prototype(?) looked nicer.
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post #254 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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That variance of 10dB between these clones is a little suspect considering these four pjs have essentially the same innards, which begs the question : are these manufacturers measuring fan noise using the same distance from port to microphone ? I doubt it, and from my experience that makes a huge difference; Moving the microphone even a few inches away drops measurement levels considerably, so who are we to know if the ACER K330 was measured 20" away from port versus 12" for the Optoma ML500 ?
On the other hand if these pjs do use the exact same internal components layout, why is there such a difference in the way hot air is exhausted ? According to these tests the Viewsonic's hottest port is the one next to the lens while on the NEC the hottest port is the one located on the left side of the case.
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post #255 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 06:48 PM
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I guess in a day or so a lot of fundamental questions will be answered, and more, when blee0120 get his hands on the Optoma.

Fingers crossed on the noise issue and the start up focus issue and whatever else. Hopefully these pjs would meet and exceed our expectations!
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post #256 of 429 Old 09-02-2011, 08:58 PM
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I have to say regarding noise, its a personal preference but when I owned LG HX300g which is rated 23db/29db/35db I found 35db setting too noisy for regular use. So to me it’s a deal breaker with these new LED pj. I would much rather get Casio aj and run it on Eco mode.

Mac Mini HTPC (Win7)
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post #257 of 429 Old 09-03-2011, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDudley View Post

So is the Acer only available in white? The black prototype(?) looked nicer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as i know the ACER K330 will be available in the USA in the two colors shown, white/silver edges and flat black/glossy black trim.
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post #258 of 429 Old 09-03-2011, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

That variance of 10dB between these clones is a little suspect considering these four pjs have essentially the same innards, which begs the question : are these manufacturers measuring fan noise using the same distance from port to microphone ? I doubt it, and from my experience that makes a huge difference; Moving the microphone even a few inches away drops measurement levels considerably, so who are we to know if the ACER K330 was measured 20" away from port versus 12" for the Optoma ML500 ?
On the other hand if these pjs do use the exact same internal components layout, why is there such a difference in the way hot air is exhausted ? According to these tests the Viewsonic's hottest port is the one next to the lens while on the NEC the hottest port is the one located on the left side of the case.

The Acer's case is actually taller than the viewsonics.
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post #259 of 429 Old 09-03-2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine0 View Post

I guess in a day or so a lot of fundamental questions will be answered, and more, when blee0120 get his hands on the Optoma.

Fingers crossed on the noise issue and the start up focus issue and whatever else. Hopefully these pjs would meet and exceed our expectations!

also curious if focus is more stable than on my QUMI once it warms up. I generally focus on cold boot and once again 15 mins later, then i'm good for as long as I use it for that session. This really doesn't bother me since I don't have it mounted, just stick it on a shelf or table.

My Acer 5360 shifts during cold -> warm and have to adjust it at least once. others I know said they didn't have the problem, so maybe it's just my projector.

looking forward to hearing Blee's comments, I'll grab the Optoma this week if comments are positive.
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post #260 of 429 Old 09-03-2011, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


also curious if focus is more stable than on my QUMI once it warms up. I generally focus on cold boot and once again 15 mins later, then i'm good for as long as I use it for that session. This really doesn't bother me since I don't have it mounted, just stick it on a shelf or table.

My Acer 5360 shifts during cold -> warm and have to adjust it at least once. others I know said they didn't have the problem, so maybe it's just my projector.

looking forward to hearing Blee's comments, I'll grab the Optoma this week if comments are positive.

I'll be back hopefully by 2pm tomorrow. At least my seeing a lot of cool 3D stuff at universal studios and Disney world with the family
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post #261 of 429 Old 09-03-2011, 11:18 AM
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Jaysus Blee, enjoy urself and don't mind us for now!

Don't worry, we're all set and ready to ravage u tmr!!!
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post #262 of 429 Old 09-05-2011, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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blee0120 >>>So, besides the very audible fan noise issue you reported on the Optoma ML500 thread, have you noticed any other issues so far, specifically focus problems at start-up ? If you place your hand on the ML500 after it's been turned on for about one hour, how warm does it feel ? How noticeable is that diamond pattern pixel grid when displaying white fonts on black background during end credits of a movie ?
Thanks a bunch....
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post #263 of 429 Old 09-05-2011, 08:37 AM
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I read his first impressions review of the Optoma ML-500.
One quote that might get many people's notice " Watching G.I. Joe, didn't know 720p could look so good. It look better than my Marantz VP8600. I guess that's going up for sale " interesting indeed.
Macgo ? I never had a native 720 or 1080 P projector before, so if I do decide to get this projector it would be a whole new experience ? correct ?
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post #264 of 429 Old 09-05-2011, 09:23 AM
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36DB

hear it for yourself.

[url="http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tecar.html"]
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post #265 of 429 Old 09-05-2011, 12:21 PM
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Thank you Ir bass,
Great way of comparing the audible level differences.

So many ideas, so little money!
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post #266 of 429 Old 09-07-2011, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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For Y'all Information >>> ZOL.com has just reviewed the Optoma ML500 and i added the figures of the test report to the comparison chart located on page 4 of this thread; So, all four clones have been tested by the publication under the same test conditions which should give us a good means of comparison between these clones...
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post #267 of 429 Old 09-07-2011, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

For Y'all Information >>> ZOL.com has just reviewed the Optoma ML500 and i added the figures of the test report to the comparison chart located on page 4 of this thread; So, all four clones have been tested by the publication under the same test conditions which should give us a good means of comparison between these clones...

Am I reading the chart right that the Acer is starting to look and look MOST awesome? :P
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post #268 of 429 Old 09-07-2011, 07:56 AM
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Is it ok to post a link to the review here? I can't seem to find it.
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post #269 of 429 Old 09-07-2011, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonWolf View Post

Am I reading the chart right that the Acer is starting to look and look MOST awesome? :P

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Well, the ACER and the NEC seem to have an edge in contrast ratio and display stronger color saturation whereas the Viewsonic and the Optoma have measured lumen output that is closer to specs.
According to thermal figures the Viewsonic and Optoma have hottest exhaust air temperature on the port right next to the lens whereas on the NEC it is the port located on the left side of the case away from the lens, if that even matters considering that blee0120 reported that his Optoma feels cool to the touch after eight hours of continuous running.
The remote control for the Viewsonic appear to be different than the others and looks like it uses AAA batteries, again, if that matters.
Also, i appreciate the look of that sliding lens cover on the NEC, but i am not sure if it's worth a higher list price of $800.
I wonder why the test report on the ACER was pulled out from the website; Perhaps some enterprising PR rep from the company complained to ZOL.com that the measured test result for maximum lumen output put the product in a "bad light" vis a vis its specification of 500 lumens, which turned out to be considerably less, and ZOL.com decided not to offend/antagonize/displease ACER China, one of the largest manufacturer of computers, monitors, presentation pjs, accessories, etc, in the world ? Hmm...
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post #270 of 429 Old 09-07-2011, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manamb View Post

MCaugusto,
Do you think it would be good to add to the Matrix the Fan Noise for both Dynamic and ECO modes?

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Unfortunately ZOL.com did not publish noise figures and i think it would be meaningless to add the manufacturers' specs for fan noise considering each one uses different microphones, measuring distance, pj location, etc.
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