ACER K330 LED 1280x800 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 933 Old 10-01-2011, 06:18 PM
Senior Member
 
PoisonWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDudley View Post

I made a quick video of it pointed at a (not quite white) wall with about 75". Sound from the built-in speaker. All default settings. Sorry about the phone quality, it's not exactly an HD camera. You can see what I mean about MKVs in the second part. It's a shame, really.

Is it just me or is the first video constantly alternating LED colors?
PoisonWolf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 933 Old 10-02-2011, 12:11 AM
Member
 
HenryDudley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonWolf View Post

Is it just me or is the first video constantly alternating LED colors?

It's just the camera getting confused. It's certainly not something you can see.
HenryDudley is offline  
post #183 of 933 Old 10-02-2011, 01:24 AM
Member
 
andysm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
andysm is offline  
post #184 of 933 Old 10-02-2011, 06:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Raine0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HenryDudley, someone said of the Optoma that if it were 1 meter away from him and watching a movie with sound system, he wouldn't hear the pj noise. Can that be said abt the Acer as well?

Sorry for all the questions abt the noise guys. But it's a bit of a dealbreaker for me.
Raine0 is online now  
post #185 of 933 Old 10-02-2011, 07:22 AM
Member
 
HenryDudley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I can just about hear it with the sound volume reasonably loud, although you could probably ignore it as long as the movie wasn't too boring. If it was ceiling mounted you probably wouldn't notice it at all, but that kind of defeats the purpose of something this portable.

All my tests are in eco mode, of course. At full brightness you'd need an airliner at full throttle to drown it out. Slightly exaggerated, but I was surprised at how much louder it is compared to the small increase in brightness. Maybe the LEDs are driven way past their comfort zone.

I've also noticed that the fan speed doesn't seem to be exactly fixed when it's in eco mode. It seems to vary slightly, but never really quiet.

I don't know how to compare sound outside of having them next to each other. Maybe record it with the units playing the same file with the internal speaker at the same volume, although it would probably still be slightly dependant on the microphone.

I guess the blacks could have been slightly blacker too. Someone commented on it, but I can't find the post now.



I tried the display over USB function as well. It seems to work flawlessly apart from the fact that it for some reason disables the aero effects in Windows. Wonder what the wireless dongle is like. It doesn't seem to be out yet.
HenryDudley is offline  
post #186 of 933 Old 10-02-2011, 08:51 AM
Senior Member
 
PoisonWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Henry,

Based on all your comments, it does makes sense that when these PT-54s are driven to their "normal" capacity....it does indeed get pretty hot. This likely explains why earlier models used it under its normal specification. That is, to keep heat output down.

With the amount of RPMs needed to constantly cool this thing, I'm very skeptical about even reaching the 5000 hour mark in terms of LED life (based on afineman's deal with the HS201). I'm guessing that the fans will fail first before the LEDs.

I'm not sure if these batch of projectors are something you want to be running 10 hours a day constantly.

This is just my opinion though.

P.S. Do the diagonal pixels bother you or affect image quality too much?
PoisonWolf is offline  
post #187 of 933 Old 10-02-2011, 10:26 AM
Member
 
HenryDudley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't think so. It makes lines and text a little jagged up close but I can't see it from a distance. I would have prefered square pixels if I had a choice, but it doesn't bother me.



That's what they look like up close.
HenryDudley is offline  
post #188 of 933 Old 10-02-2011, 10:47 AM
Member
 
habakoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonWolf View Post

Henry,

Based on all your comments, it does makes sense that when these PT-54s are driven to their "normal" capacity....it does indeed get pretty hot. This likely explains why earlier models used it under its normal specification. That is, to keep heat output down.

With the amount of RPMs needed to constantly cool this thing, I'm very skeptical about even reaching the 5000 hour mark in terms of LED life (based on afineman's deal with the HS201). I'm guessing that the fans will fail first before the LEDs.

I'm not sure if these batch of projectors are something you want to be running 10 hours a day constantly.

This is just my opinion though.

P.S. Do the diagonal pixels bother you or affect image quality too much?

You also have to remember that those older LED projector did not have these new DLP HD Pico chips which are more light efficient. Fans tend to last for quite a long time, even these small ones. Usually the bearings start to scream in nasty way before they go completely bust. The projector would shut itself down if the core temp would rise beyond specificated safety limit. Even in this case replacing the fan is a very easy fix. I don't really see how this differs from other projectors.

What does differ though is the audial pitch of an operating fan. High-pitched sound is not as pleasing as the good old whoosh we're used to on bigger projectors. It would be helpful if people reviewing these projectors would compare the sounds to other older projectors they and other readers are familiar with. I shall do that tomorrow when I get my hands on the Acer.

Previous generation LED projector LG HX300G handles 30 000 hours of usage according to manufacturer while the Acer K330 is specced 20 000 hours (pretty careful estimate IMO.) I'm not scared to use my Acer 10 hours a day. It has warranty and at least in Europe it's pretty strictly regulated.
habakoski is offline  
post #189 of 933 Old 10-03-2011, 09:36 AM
Member
 
uanemabell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
thanx dude!
uanemabell is offline  
post #190 of 933 Old 10-03-2011, 11:07 AM
Member
 
travis_bickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDudley View Post

I don't think so. It makes lines and text a little jagged up close but I can't see it from a distance. I would have prefered square pixels if I had a choice, but it doesn't bother me.



That's what they look like up close.

on this picture it looks like the acer has massive problems with chromatic abberation too (green and purple edges). I start to believe the actual lineup its ****ep up because of the diamond pixels. after years still no satisfying led projector?
travis_bickle is offline  
post #191 of 933 Old 10-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Member
 
HenryDudley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis_bickle View Post

on this picture it looks like the acer has massive problems with chromatic abberation too (green and purple edges).

They're all the same projector. Same hardware, same software.
HenryDudley is offline  
post #192 of 933 Old 10-03-2011, 12:08 PM
Member
 
habakoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey guys. I received my Acer K330 today and I'm sad to to say that I'm disappointed. I guess my expectations were too high.

I don't find the picture bright enough with my Da-Lite High Power 2.8 (slightly off-axis) and it just looks pretty washed out, maybe because of the lowly ANSI contrast? I didn't realize that I'm a lumens whore but time spent with my Optoma HD67 and Epson 3200 projectors combined with Da-Lite screen has spoiled me.

I didn't spend too much tweaking the thing because out of box it should look at least decent but no. The image looks soft and dull and that's why I'm returning this baby first thing tomorrow. Too bad, I love the fact that it powers on and off blazingly fast and of course the non-lamp factor. Been watching only 1080p Blu-Rays with this.

I think it's not that noisy in ECO mode, pretty similar to my Optoma HD67, perhaps even quieter but the tonal pitch is definitely higher. In the brightest mode it's somewhat noisy but tolerable depending on where it's installed.

Sorry guys, I promised pictures and video but I don't think I will open that box anymore. I couldn't get satisfying picture watching it with my own eyes and the camera cannot do better job.

I was actually bit surprised reading Zombie's user experience with the Vivitek Qumi and comparing it with his Acer H5360 (pretty much the same machine my Optoma HD67 I believe) He found the Vivitek sharper looking and comparable in PQ to Acer H5360. I find this to be quite the opposite with my Acer K330. And this is supposed to be better projector?

This was my first dip into cheap LED projectors and I'll still wait couple of product generations for things to mature and stick with antique lamp projectors I'm afraid.
habakoski is offline  
post #193 of 933 Old 10-03-2011, 12:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Raine0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by habakoski View Post

Hey guys. I received my Acer K330 today and I'm sad to to say that I'm disappointed. I guess my expectations were too high.

I don't find the picture bright enough with my Da-Lite High Power 2.8 (slightly off-axis) and it just looks pretty washed out, maybe because of the lowly ANSI contrast? I didn't realize that I'm a lumens whore but time spent with my Optoma HD67 and Epson 3200 projectors combined with Da-Lite screen has spoiled me.

I didn't spend too much tweaking the thing because out of box it should look at least decent but no. The image looks soft and dull and that's why I'm returning this baby first thing tomorrow. Too bad, I love the fact that it powers on and off blazingly fast and of course the non-lamp factor.

I think it's not that noisy in ECO mode, pretty similar to my Optoma HD67, perhaps even quieter but the tonal pitch is definitely higher. In the brightest mode it's somewhat noisy but tolerable depending on where it's installed.

Sorry guys, I promised pictures and video but I don't think I will open that box anymore. I couldn't get satisfying picture watching it with my own eyes and the camera cannot do better job.

I was actually bit surprised reading Zombie's user experience with the Vivitek Qumi and comparing it with his Acer H5360 (pretty much the same machine my Optoma HD67 I believe) He found the Vivitek sharper looking and comparable in PQ to Acer H5360. I find this to be quite the opposite with my Acer K330.

This was my first dip into cheap LED projectors and I'll still wait couple of product generations for things to mature and stick with antique lamp projectors I'm afraid.

Ouch! Thanks for brutally honest review. Being straight to the point has helped my decision lots, Acer out the window.

I'm starting to think now that everything that was said in those ZOL.com reviews maybe pretty accurate after all. So going from those reviews the NEC might be king after all. But two unknowns still, is the exact price and esp the noise level. But I'm also starting to think that noise levels are very similar.

So I'll probably wait for the NEC. Probably best picture quality and good exhaust system that will probably/hopefully erase a lot of problems the Optoma is having.
Raine0 is online now  
post #194 of 933 Old 10-03-2011, 01:24 PM
Senior Member
 
PoisonWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine0 View Post

Ouch! Thanks for brutally honest review. Being straight to the point has helped my decision lots, Acer out the window.

I'm starting to think now that everything that was said in those ZOL.com reviews maybe pretty accurate after all. So going from those reviews the NEC might be king after all. But two unknowns still, is the exact price and esp the noise level. But I'm also starting to think that noise levels are very similar.

So I'll probably wait for the NEC. Probably best picture quality and good exhaust system that will probably/hopefully erase a lot of problems the Optoma is having.

Unlikely. Acer and NEC will have very similar internals. It's not going to be magically be king of the lot. Lawl.

I still recommend to just wait it out and wait for the next wave of TI's chipsets. Diamond pixel sucks.
PoisonWolf is offline  
post #195 of 933 Old 10-03-2011, 03:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Raine0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm just going by the ZOL.com review, cuz a lot of their points seems to be pretty accurate thus far. Wishful thinking? Maybe?

As in waiting for the new line of chipsets, I don't think I want to wait any longer tbh. I've waited long enuf. Don't want to wait another half yr - yr. Will hopefully get smth to satify me then sell it off when a must buy upgrade comes along, whenever that maybe. I'm pretty sure one of these models will satify my needs for now, not the Acer tho. The Optoma was getting favorable reviews early on, odd it's getting slated most recently.
Raine0 is online now  
post #196 of 933 Old 10-03-2011, 04:05 PM
Member
 
HenryDudley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I still don't think the K330 is bad, as long as you treat it as what it is - a fun portable projector and not the center of a permanent home theater. I think some people may have too high expectations, I guess maybe because you can get better bulb projectors at comparable prices. I personally find it bright enough even in eco on both walls and a 1.1 gain screen at 80". 100"+ might be pushing it.

As for waiting for the NEC, I don't know. It seems to be the model that appears the most different from the others on the surface, but I still think it's just the same hardware, optics and firmware as all the others.
HenryDudley is offline  
post #197 of 933 Old 10-04-2011, 12:27 AM
Member
 
alexandrs35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You guys got me confused, with the last not so positive review, however i do believe that from all of the clones this one is the best. Just check out the test numbers by ZOL.com. i believit was in the "three clones" thred where somebidy posted a very comprehensive table.
I think HenryDubley is right, it is a good pj as long as you don't exaggerate your expectations. It is data pj with LEDs thus the colors are good enough for an occasional movie in a dark room (a must for my cinema experiance) on a 100" screen.
This thing gave way to Optoma in terms of ANSI lumens, yet it had a considerably better contrast, which is very important IMHO.
One thing that does bother me though is the chromatic abberation... it can really spoil the whole thing.What's the use of good collors if the picture is not sharp enough and has that annoying glaze.

HenryDudley,
could you please take a few photos of still images where one could see the max extent of the chromatic abberation of this PJ?
Like it's done here for example:http://www.eskimo.com/~nanook/photog...berration.html

if you do notice traces of this effect please take a close up image so that one can see the pixels clearly, this will deffinately help a lot of folks make up their minds.
alexandrs35 is offline  
post #198 of 933 Old 10-04-2011, 12:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think what most think is CA is just the scaling algorithm resolving a edge.

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #199 of 933 Old 10-05-2011, 12:02 AM
Member
 
travis_bickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
so when looking to the optoma ml500 thread with a close up comparison of vivitek qumi and optoma ml 500 there seems to be a difference in terms of chromatic abberation / colored edges effect of the algorithm. in my eyes it seems to me more apparend on the qumi. is this because of the overall brighter optoma image or is the visibility concerned with something else? if theres a difference ... why not hoping that nec will do it right this time with the l50w?
travis_bickle is offline  
post #200 of 933 Old 10-05-2011, 07:20 AM
Member
 
Jartanyon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


I think what most think is CA is just the scaling algorithm resolving a edge

I beg to differ. With the extent of the aberration, that is from the cheap plastic lens. I don't think the scaling would produce something that extreme. Then again, what do you expect for a low cost projector - I have glass for my cameras that cost a lot more then the entire projector
Jartanyon is offline  
post #201 of 933 Old 10-05-2011, 10:49 AM
Member
 
RenStimpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

I think what most think is CA is just the scaling algorithm resolving a edge.

If this was scaling issue, the artifacts would have to be at least a pixel in width, since I believe there is no way to do sub-pixel rendering with a DLP device. I've included a crop of the CA on the Optoma ML500 below, where you can see that the red is off by 1/2 a pixel, blue is off by ~1/2 a pixel, and green is way off.



I say we need to call a spade a spade, as this looks exactly like your typical CA.

For comparison, here is a crop of the CA on the Vivitek Qumi, which at least in my room, had a much sharper projected image:



Note that both are shots from the center of the screen. You can see the diamond shape of the Qumi easier than with the ML500. I'm not an optics expert, so I can't say if this is primarily due to CA, the MTF of the lens, or something else. But there is no doubt that the Qumi lens is better, at least for the two units I looked at.
RenStimpy is offline  
post #202 of 933 Old 10-05-2011, 12:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was talking about that google G image.

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #203 of 933 Old 10-06-2011, 09:22 AM
Member
 
alexandrs35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Somebody who has the Acer k330 already, PLEASE post some photos similar to those posted on the ML500 thread. I'm about to pull the trigger on this one, it's just that the CA really bugs me.
alexandrs35 is offline  
post #204 of 933 Old 10-06-2011, 11:09 AM
Newbie
 
nonalcoholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Got it and like it!

Okay, its my first projector, but I'm a heavy duty cinema visitor (only 4k DLP projectors in our cinema ).


For a little projector this size, it's really nice.

Just thrown Transformers 2 on the blank white wall with 95". Its great!

Okay, if it's really silent, you can hear it very well. But in a normal Movie with many background noises, it's not that bad! And I didn't activate the eco mode.
nonalcoholic is offline  
post #205 of 933 Old 10-06-2011, 01:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Raine0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Congrats nonalcoholic! Glad you're enjoying your new pj!
Raine0 is online now  
post #206 of 933 Old 10-06-2011, 11:19 PM
Newbie
 
anachoret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello all. Could someone give his opinion about one of these new 500 lums compared to a LG HW300G or Qumit for example? What about parameters possibilities, video quality and ratio plz?
Thanks.
anachoret is offline  
post #207 of 933 Old 10-07-2011, 12:23 AM
Member
 
seph22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Looks like Acer will ignore USA market again
Their 3D monitors/projectors (5360BD) was available for half a year now in europe/asia but not America, the K330 will follow same steps, people should get ML500 at this point if they want cheap led 720p projector and deal with its lack of audio out/noise levels instead of waiting for something that probably will not be released in USA
seph22 is offline  
post #208 of 933 Old 10-07-2011, 10:40 AM
Newbie
 
3dwag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Would be a shame, if turns out to be true.

My interest in the K330 is as a very portable travel projector, for both presentations and still/moving media...for which I absolutely need audio out.
3dwag is offline  
post #209 of 933 Old 10-07-2011, 02:22 PM
Member
 
seph22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dwag View Post

Would be a shame, if turns out to be true.

My interest in the K330 is as a very portable travel projector, for both presentations and still/moving media...for which I absolutely need audio out.

Same story here, but K330 was suppose to be the first 500l led projector released (it was in china) but by now every other projector that was announced got released in usa expect the K330 in america

I know many people who waited for the 5360BD to be released in USA but it never did, people should import K330 or just forget about it at this point really (we don't even have a single reliable site for pre-order that thing let alone getting released if ever anytime soon)
seph22 is offline  
post #210 of 933 Old 10-08-2011, 01:12 PM
Member
 
HenryDudley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandrs35 View Post

if you do notice traces of this effect please take a close up image so that one can see the pixels clearly, this will deffinately help a lot of folks make up their minds.




If you want to know if it bothers me though, then that's a different question. It does not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by travis_bickle View Post

why not hoping that nec will do it right this time with the l50w?

Because there's no difference between the projectors. They quite obviously have the same optical assembly, the same hardware and are running the same software made by some (to me) unknown third party. Don't be fooled by the superficial differences.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nonalcoholic View Post

For a little projector this size, it's really nice.

Agreed. I like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonalcoholic View Post

Okay, if it's really silent, you can hear it very well. But in a normal Movie with many background noises, it's not that bad! And I didn't activate the eco mode.

You must like the volume really loud. I guess "not that bad" pretty much sums the whole projector up though.
HenryDudley is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Tags
Acer K330 Portable Home Theater Projector , Projectors , Led Hdtv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off