Projector Replacement Debate - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm seeking some input on a new projector. My BenQ PE7700 bought the farm so to speak after about 4.5 years. So I have a current dilemma. BenQ is offering me a refurbished W1000+ at a deeply discounted rate since they are out of parts on the PE7700.

Some factors:
A. Cost of any projector should be less than 3K.
B. Not really interested in 3D technology.
C. LCD is ruled out because of dust issues. Stick to DLP or LCOS.
D. Watch sports 60% and TV/movies 40% (The lion's share of sports watched is American football so I changed my viewing percentages when I thought of how football season is only about six months.) in an off white living room with some ambient light during the day on a Da-Lite High Power 118 inch screen. Direct sunlight can be shielded. Rear shelf mounted at about 14.5 feet at a height of 39" inches. (Not the best setup that's what I have to work with. )
E. Next projector after this one slated for 2015/16.

Here are two scenarios:

1. Take the BenQ deal now and wait to see what comes out of CEDIA. (Per mjg100 sounds like the W1000+ is out of the picture.)

2. Take the plunge and get a JVC HD250. This has solid reviews and fits into my price point.

3. Wait til after CEDIA.

What's the word on upcoming 2D LCOS and DLP projectors under 3K?

When do new projectors hit the stores in the fall? (Looking to own a projector for most of the football season.)

Will there be any that present a significant upgrade to the JVC HD 250?

Thanks for your input and I'd be open to other suggestions.
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post #2 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 01:03 PM
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Just keep in mind there are very few DLP projectors in the price range with the needed lens shift for you hp shelf setup. Just something to keep in mind as people make suggestions.
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post #3 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Just keep in mind there are very few DLP projectors in the price range with the needed lens shift for you hp shelf setup. Just something to keep in mind as people make suggestions.

Thanks for making the point, however I used the PE7700 with a little keystone due to the unique setup of the living room and it was livable in my opinion.
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post #4 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 03:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mrteacher View Post

Thanks for making the point, however I used the PE7700 with a little keystone due to the unique setup of the living room and it was livable in my opinion.

On a 118" screen the W1000+ has to be mounted 8.7" above or below the screen for a no keystone set up. Also you will not have very good black levels because the image will be so bright. Using economy lamp and the lowest lumen mode is still going to give you 23FL, assuming that you only get 2.0 gain from your HP screen. I just do not see how you can use the W1000+ mounted 39" above the floor. I think you either are going to have to change your projector mount or get a projector with lens shift.
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post #5 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

On a 118" screen the W1000+ has to be mounted 8.7" above or below the screen for a no keystone set up. Also you will not have very good black levels because the image will be so bright. Using economy lamp and the lowest lumen mode is still going to give you 23FL, assuming that you only get 2.0 gain from your HP screen. I just do not see how you can use the W1000+ mounted 39" above the floor. I think you either are going to have to change your projector mount or get a projector with lens shift.

mjg100

Thanks for you input. Will the JVC be suitable for my setup?
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post #6 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 06:31 PM
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The 7700 has a 0 offset, where w1000+ has a 'modest' offset. If the OP was originally using keystone correction, this would mean using a bit more. If you're only watching video material, and not desktops, then I doubt the old setup vs new would look much different. The increased resolution would probably counter the increased keystone. The OP already posted that he thought the use of keystone was liveable.

@mrteacher, perhaps you could ask BenQ if they're willing to give you a deal on a refurb W6000. It has lens shift.

Jonathan
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post #7 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 06:43 PM
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I would wait until after Sept. maybe, but either way is fine. The problem is even though some of this stuff comes out in Sept, sometimes models are delayed until XMAS or even longer before they have enough inventory.

Many brands should be coming out with some new models, but who knows if the improvements will be worthy.

If you want something better and want it now, take a look at the Infocus sp8602, but it's a bit at the upper-end of the price range.

I personally would not recommend a JVC for 75% sports viewing, JvC's do a lot of things well, but motion isn't their best strength and neither is bright scene POP necessarily. JVC's are also more expensive than some projectors to run regarding lamp time if you are a heavy user, it can almost pay for itself to get a second projector (like a DLP) for watching TV or sports.

Check out the Benq w6000 as well or the Mits hc4000. The Benq w6000 has lens shift, but the Mits hc4000 does not so the Mits would have to be repostiioned to a floor position, or you can raise the screen way up high and then use a bit of keystone.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #8 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 07:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrteacher View Post

mjg100

Thanks for you input. Will the JVC be suitable for my setup?

Yes a JVC HD250/350 would look very good on a 118" HP screen. I think that is a good match. As others said, CEDIA is right around the corner, if you can wait a couple of months.

Added
Forgot that you are mostly wanting to watch sports. The JVC is a great choice for movie watchers, but less so for sports. The W6000 would be good for sports, if it is not too bright. Great price if you can get a refurb.
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post #9 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

Yes a JVC HD250/350 would look very good on a 118" HP screen. I think that is a good match. As others said, CEDIA is right around the corner, if you can wait a couple of months.

He said Sports 75% though, that's a lot of sports for a JVC ...
Some people don't care about JVC motion issues for sports, some do, just depends what his eyes see. He had a DLP before though, so he really might not prefer a JVC for sports, who knows for sure though.

I think the Benq w6000 will work but it's going to be a bit too bright, so yah it's pretty bright but it can go darker. You can also force the IRIS to close down more by modifying a setting in the service menu on the Benq (well I know you can modify the IRIS in the service menu, but I'm not sure just how much more you can force it closed). Benq will lose quite a bit of lumens after 200 hours because the lamps are pushed pretty hard, it should be ok after that with the IRIS fully closed, but it could be a close call. Well he can always off-mount the Benq and reduce the HP screen's gain worst case scenario.

He also has some ambient light, which is going to make a brighter image more tolerable than say if he were in a pitch black room.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #10 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 07:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

He said Sports 75% though, that's a lot of sports for a JVC ...
Some people don't care about JVC motion issues for sports, some do, just depends what his eyes see. He had a DLP before though, so he really might not prefer a JVC for sports, who knows for sure though.

I think the Benq w6000 will work but it's going to be a bit too bright, so yah it's pretty bright but it can go darker. You can also force the IRIS to close down more by modifying a setting in the service menu on the Benq (well I know you can modify the IRIS in the service menu, but I'm not sure just how much more you can force it closed). Benq will lose quite a bit of lumens after 200 hours because the lamps are pushed pretty hard, it should be ok after that with the IRIS fully closed, but it could be a close call. Well he can always off-mount the Benq and reduce the HP screen's gain worst case scenario.

He also has some ambient light, which is going to make a brighter image more tolerable than say if he were in a pitch black room.

Yeah, I remembered that after I posted and I was correcting my post when you posted.
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post #11 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

Yeah, I remembered that after I posted and I was correcting my post when you posted.

Ahh my bad, do you know the mimimum lumens of the Benq, I think it was around 650 with IRIS fully closed, hmm I forget.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #12 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 07:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Ahh my bad, do you know the mimimum lumens of the Benq, I think it was around 650 with IRIS fully closed, hmm I forget.

He should be fine, 579 lumens. It was less than I remembered.
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post #13 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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coderguy and mjg100,

Thanks so much for your input. It's appreciated.

A. The BenQ W6000 was mentioned. Has BenQ improved their reliability? I loved the PE7700 but don't want to get stuck with another headache. A refurbished BenQ W6000 comes with a one year warranty and I'd be willing to pay for a more expensive projector for the additional one year of warranty. So I'm a bit gun shy about another BenQ. The incredible deal BenQ is offering me on the W1000+ makes the 1 yr warranty moot. The estimated deal price on the refurbished W6000 would make the reliability an issue since I wouldn't treat it like a disposable projector.

B. I've toyed with the idea of a the HC4000 but my setup would not change. I live in a a 2.5 level townhouse. The first level is the living room. The half level is a dining room where the projector sits behind is the floor. See attached picture. So I really can't change the projector setup. I don't mind a little keystone. The PE7700 had a little and it didn't noticeably degrade the image.


C. Regarding the JVC. I'm not a heavy projector user, I probably use one less than 1000 hrs a yr. What's the sports motion issue? It never came up in any of the online reviews. I know Magnolia has a JVC HD550 in West LA that can be viewed. Would the sports motion issue be similar to the 550?

Thanks for all your help/input.
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post #14 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrwhite View Post

The 7700 has a 0 offset, where w1000+ has a 'modest' offset. If the OP was originally using keystone correction, this would mean using a bit more. If you're only watching video material, and not desktops, then I doubt the old setup vs new would look much different. The increased resolution would probably counter the increased keystone. The OP already posted that he thought the use of keystone was liveable.

@mrteacher, perhaps you could ask BenQ if they're willing to give you a deal on a refurb W6000. It has lens shift.

Jonathan

Thanks for the suggestion.
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post #15 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 08:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrteacher View Post

coderguy and mjg100,

Thanks so much for your input. It's appreciated.

A. The BenQ W6000 was mentioned. Has BenQ improved their reliability? I loved the PE7700 but don't want to get stuck with another headache. A refurbished BenQ W6000 comes with a one year warranty and I'd be willing to pay for a more expensive projector for the additional one year of warranty. So I'm a bit gun shy about another BenQ. The incredible deal BenQ is offering me on the W1000+ makes the 1 yr warranty moot. The estimated deal price on the refurbished W6000 would make the reliability an issue since I wouldn't treat it like a disposable projector.

B. I've toyed with the idea of a the HC4000 but my setup would not change. I live in a a 2.5 level townhouse. The first level is the living room. The half level is a dining room where the projector sits behind is the floor. See attached picture. So I really can't change the projector setup. I don't mind a little keystone. The PE7700 had a little and it didn't noticeably degrade the image.


C. Regarding the JVC. I'm not a heavy projector user, I probably use one less than 1000 hrs a yr. What's the sports motion issue? It never came up in any of the online reviews. I know Magnolia has a JVC HD550 in West LA that can be viewed. Would the sports motion issue be similar to the 550?

Thanks for all your help/input.

If you can swing a good deal on the W6000, then buy an extended warranty. Since the warranty is based on price paid, it will not cost that much. That is what I did for a refurb that I bought a few years ago. My brother did the same for a refurb VW60. He paid $79 for three years (direct from Sony), so his refurb VW60 has a longer warranty than the VW60 had when sold new.
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post #16 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrteacher View Post

coderguy and mjg100,

Thanks so much for your input. It's appreciated.

A. The BenQ W6000 was mentioned. Has BenQ improved their reliability? I loved the PE7700 but don't want to get stuck with another headache. A refurbished BenQ W6000 comes with a one year warranty and I'd be willing to pay for a more expensive projector for the additional one year of warranty. So I'm a bit gun shy about another BenQ. The incredible deal BenQ is offering me on the W1000+ makes the 1 yr warranty moot. The estimated deal price on the refurbished W6000 would make the reliability an issue since I wouldn't treat it like a disposable projector.

B. I've toyed with the idea of a the HC4000 but my setup would not change. I live in a a 2.5 level townhouse. The first level is the living room. The half level is a dining room where the projector sits behind is the floor. See attached picture. So I really can't change the projector setup. I don't mind a little keystone. The PE7700 had a little and it didn't noticeably degrade the image.


C. Regarding the JVC. I'm not a heavy projector user, I probably use one less than 1000 hrs a yr. What's the sports motion issue? It never came up in any of the online reviews. I know Magnolia has a JVC HD550 in West LA that can be viewed. Would the sports motion issue be similar to the 550?

Thanks for all your help/input.

I watch 60% movies and 40% sports. The HD250 throws a beautiful, bright picture with no motion issues that I've been able to see.
Don
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post #17 of 39 Old 07-29-2011, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dswdallas View Post

I watch 60% movies and 40% sports. The HD250 throws a beautiful, bright picture with no motion issues that I've been able to see.
Don

I love my projector (HD250). I have been playing a lot of games (fast motion) and watching a lot of movies. I'm not a big sports fan, so this didn't play into my choice at all.

I can say I barely see any motion blur at all, but I do see a little from time to time. Fast motion games (socom, call of duty, gran turismo, madden) give me no noticeable issues at this time. I'll put on a sports game this week and give you my opinion on that.

IMHO, it's a great projector for the price. It's picture is nearly as good as my panasonic plasma, on a formica sheet screen.
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post #18 of 39 Old 07-30-2011, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eyeage30 View Post

I love my projector (HD250). I have been playing a lot of games (fast motion) and watching a lot of movies. I'm not a big sports fan, so this didn't play into my choice at all.

I can say I barely see any motion blur at all, but I do see a little from time to time. Fast motion games (socom, call of duty, gran turismo, madden) give me no noticeable issues at this time. I'll put on a sports game this week and give you my opinion on that.

IMHO, it's a great projector for the price. It's picture is nearly as good as my panasonic plasma, on a formica sheet screen.

eyeage30,

Thanks for looking into the sports issue. I will also be looking at a JVC HD 550 this week too for a comparison.
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post #19 of 39 Old 07-30-2011, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

If you can swing a good deal on the W6000, then buy an extended warranty. Since the warranty is based on price paid, it will not cost that much. That is what I did for a refurb that I bought a few years ago. My brother did the same for a refurb VW60. He paid $79 for three years (direct from Sony), so his refurb VW60 has a longer warranty than the VW60 had when sold new.

mjg100

I will definitely look into that.
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post #20 of 39 Old 07-30-2011, 11:27 AM
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Yeah definitely get out and view them. Some of us notice the motion blur more than others. Especially if you're accustom to not seeing it, it is more noticeable. I see it on LCD projectors all day long! If you can find a LCD or LCOS that uses CFI, it would help. If I can see it during movies, there's a greater possibility I'll see it with live fast moving sports.
DLPs are inherently better at the motion thing without frame interpolation.
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post #21 of 39 Old 07-30-2011, 04:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrteacher View Post

coderguy and mjg100,

Thanks so much for your input. It's appreciated.

A. The BenQ W6000 was mentioned. Has BenQ improved their reliability? I loved the PE7700 but don't want to get stuck with another headache. A refurbished BenQ W6000 comes with a one year warranty and I'd be willing to pay for a more expensive projector for the additional one year of warranty. So I'm a bit gun shy about another BenQ. The incredible deal BenQ is offering me on the W1000+ makes the 1 yr warranty moot. The estimated deal price on the refurbished W6000 would make the reliability an issue since I wouldn't treat it like a disposable projector.

B. I've toyed with the idea of a the HC4000 but my setup would not change. I live in a a 2.5 level townhouse. The first level is the living room. The half level is a dining room where the projector sits behind is the floor. See attached picture. So I really can't change the projector setup. I don't mind a little keystone. The PE7700 had a little and it didn't noticeably degrade the image.


C. Regarding the JVC. I'm not a heavy projector user, I probably use one less than 1000 hrs a yr. What's the sports motion issue? It never came up in any of the online reviews. I know Magnolia has a JVC HD550 in West LA that can be viewed. Would the sports motion issue be similar to the 550?

Thanks for all your help/input.

A lot of people do not notice a problem with motion using the JVC, but some do. With DLP motion is not a problem for anyone (RBE may be though) and that is why it is still slightly favored for fast motion. Every projector is a trade off. You just have to pick your poison. Personally, I would pick the JVC HD250 over the W6000, but that is because I am 90% movies and 10% HDTV/sports.
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post #22 of 39 Old 07-31-2011, 11:24 AM
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I just wanted to chime in. I've been using a HD250 since Oct of 2010. Prior to that I used a Sharp DLP projector for 4 years. Your mileage may vary, but I've not been affected my motion issues while watching college football & basketball, & pro football and basketball on the HD250. I'm using a grey screen that has a 1.8 gain. The brightness is great and I'm watching in a living room with the curtains open. Again, your mileage will vary but I can say for myself that it works great for sports, video games & blu ray.

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post #23 of 39 Old 07-31-2011, 11:28 AM
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Just an FYI..fellows in Germany are getting the SP8602 new for $1400 and some change. It would be worth a look! Jeez..,. that's as good as it gets for the money.
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post #24 of 39 Old 07-31-2011, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ahard View Post
I just wanted to chime in. I've been using a HD250 since Oct of 2010. Prior to that I used a Sharp DLP projector for 4 years. Your mileage may vary, but I've not been affected my motion issues while watching college football & basketball, & pro football and basketball on the HD250. I'm using a grey screen that has a 1.8 gain. The brightness is great and I'm watching in a living room with the curtains open. Again, your mileage will vary but I can say for myself that it works great for sports, video games & blu ray.
Thanks for your input. I'll be watching mostly football when it comes to sports.
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post #25 of 39 Old 07-31-2011, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Just an FYI..fellows in Germany are getting the SP8602 new for $1400 and some change. It would be worth a look! Jeez..,. that's as good as it gets for the money.
Wow. Wonder if deals like that could be had in the states for the SP8602?
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post #26 of 39 Old 07-31-2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mrteacher View Post
Wow. Wonder if deals like that could be had in the states for the SP8602?
I would certainly PM those guys and see where the deal is, if I were looking for one now. The best I've seen in the States was $2400. The model in Germany should work here as well. I thought these projectors were designed to switch voltage, but I'm not sure. I would use a power converter if necessary, if I could buy this projector for that price! lol

Shipping plus a power converter is still well below the $3000 you'll pay here in the states. A power converter is a $100 or less and shipping is nothing.
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post #27 of 39 Old 07-31-2011, 03:53 PM
 
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I would certainly PM those guys and see where the deal is, if I were looking for one now. The best I've seen in the States was $2400. The model in Germany should work here as well. I thought these projectors were designed to switch voltage, but I'm not sure. I would use a power converter if necessary, if I could buy this projector for that price! lol

Shipping plus a power converter is still well below the $3000 you'll pay here in the states. A power converter is a $100 or less and shipping is nothing.
WOW, 1.4k is a steal for that projector.
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post #28 of 39 Old 08-01-2011, 01:59 AM
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Waiting for Cedia can be overrated. Projector companies do not always deliver theor projectors when they say they will. For instance, last year I sold my panny4000 in august and my RS40 did not get to me until mid December. So, if you see a deal, go for it now. Or wait months for it to come
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post #29 of 39 Old 08-01-2011, 03:02 AM
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I would agree normally that waiting on Cedia is a bad idea, but this year might be different. Due to the 3D Hype being full blown now and the manufacturers just catching up, we might see a pretty substantial drop in price (well maybe at least on MFR refurbs) for certain NON-3D units from the previous years, maybe not, but maybe.

Also becuase of the dry spell on projector releases over the past 12 months, I have a feeling there will be quite a few new choices come out this year. Many of the MFR's have delayed their upgrades too long and need to catch up.

JVC has had some inventory stock issues pretty badly the past year, who knows if they will have the same issue this year or not.

Just my thoughts.


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post #30 of 39 Old 08-01-2011, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would agree normally that waiting on Cedia is a bad idea, but this year might be different. Due to the 3D Hype being full blown now and the manufacturers just catching up, we might see a pretty substantial drop in price (well maybe at least on MFR refurbs) for certain NON-3D units from the previous years, maybe not, but maybe.

Also becuase of the dry spell on projector releases over the past 12 months, I have a feeling there will be quite a few new choices come out this year. Many of the MFR's have delayed their upgrades too long and need to catch up.

JVC has had some inventory stock issues pretty badly the past year, who knows if they will have the same issue this year or not.

Just my thoughts.

I think 3D is just overrated and I have 2 3D projectors. I much rather have a good LED projector. I'll wait for an affordable 1080p LED projector
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