New Optoma HD33 HD3300 1080p 3D Projector Review - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Wellywell View Post

So far I'm finding that I like DLP link over the RF. RF is better say vs IR for signal but my DLP Links just seem to look better in regards to PQ overall. I'm not getting the green tint with my DLP links where I am getting it with the RF.

I came across a post from someone (was it in this thread?) who stated that RF glasses had flicker, whereas DLP Link did not. Can anyone confirm that? It sounded suspicious to me.

As for your green tint, I'm wondering if it's mild enough that you could correct for it in a 3D mode preset?

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post #632 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgecrush View Post

What's up everyone. I'm not sure if this has been discussed already since the thread is so long...but...I may have a suggestion concerning the Blu-Ray audio issues people seem to be running into. I have a Rotel RSP-1098 processor. It does not have any support for HDMI at all. I am also into sound so I needed to have a Blu-Ray player that had 7.1 analog outputs in order to get full resolution audio such as DTS Master Audio.

Now, I ordered the HD33, like many of you. I should receive it Thursday...Can't wait! So, now, of course I need a 3d Blu-Ray player and really did not want to spend $500 on the Oppo in order to get the 7.1 analog outputs. I know many of you are going for the players with dual HDMI outputs but I do not have ANY HDMI switching in my processor. Samsung made the BD-C6900 which is now discontinued. I happened to walk into Best Buy over the weekend and run into an open box of this exact player. I walked out of the store with it for $100! All hooked up, with all the latest apps, 3d, and 7.1 analog outputs, I am a pretty happy man and all ready for the projector to arrive.

Again, I'm not sure if this has been suggested already but, Ebay, Videogon, Amazon, or Best Buy open box...You should be able to still snatch up 1 of these players and, as long as you have open 7.1 analog inputs on your processor or receiver, you should be good to go.

Edgecrush, please keep in mind that many receivers don't have bass management through analog outs/ins and you have to do the bass management in the BD player. In many cases, the players don't do a great job in this area. Just something to keep in mind.
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post #633 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellywell View Post

So far I'm finding that I like DLP link over the RF. RF is better say vs IR for signal but my DLP Links just seem to look better in regards to PQ overall. I'm not getting the green tint with my DLP links where I am getting it with the RF.

Guitarman, not sure if you tried both glasses options, but (if you did) can you comment on this please?

thanks

atabea
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post #634 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:26 PM
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Maybe there is a way to compensate for the green tint but if I'm not getting that with DLP Link so why adjust at all? Not sure on the RF flicker issue but I did notice it took longer for it to sync when VESA was turned where DLP Link synced very quickly.
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post #635 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:32 PM
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Just so's I know...what are the most popular DLP Link glasses available? And how do DLP Link glasses work? They're not RF, but they're not IR either, right?

Scott R
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post #636 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

I scourge a lot of 3D discussions and feel sorry for all those users who continue to see cross talk as its NON-EXISTENT on DLP (atleast on HD66). It feels very unfair for companies to make money in selling sub-par 3D solutions and almost all of the technologies seem to be suffering from this.....except for DLP. Crosstalk is an unacceptable 3D-killer and as the awareness and adoption of 3D matures, I hope all the sub-par technologies are eliminated...

Falafala, I believe you are correct!! I actually find it shameful that even reviewers are unwilling to state the facts as they are: It's either there or it's not!. I also believe there is a double standard (among professional reviewers) when it comes to anything LCOS or DILA (read JVC and SONY) vs DLP projectors. Specifically, every reviewer is willing to commit and state for the record that LCOS and DILA projectors produce much better blacks---and that is as it should be because they really do. However, if DLP projectors have no "ghosting" or "crosstalk" in 3D performance then it should also be stated as fact. Again, it's either there or it's not. With 3D becoming all the craze, I believe DLP projectors are (or will be) the holy grail in the 3D arena--just like LCOS and DILA in the 2D (Blacks) reproduction. It just needs to be acknowledged.
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post #637 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srauly View Post

Just so's I know...what are the most popular DLP Link glasses available? And how do DLP Link glasses work? They're not RF, but they're not IR either, right?

I have a set of 3DHeaven dlp link glasses. Haven't got a chance to use them yet but after researching dlp link glasses they seemed to be universally though of as the best performance vs cost DLP option.

Here's a link ( http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/uldlpliwi3dg.html )

Here is a nice cheat sheet for most Ed glasses out there.

http://www.johnkalnin.com/3d/3d-shutter-glasses.htm

Using DLP link the projector sends out a blank frame during movie/gameplay that the glasses picks up (buy your eyes cant) which controls the
Glasses.

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post #638 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srauly View Post

Just so's I know...what are the most popular DLP Link glasses available? And how do DLP Link glasses work? They're not RF, but they're not IR either, right?

you cant go wrong with Optoma BG-ZD101 DLP
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post #639 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post

Falafala, I believe you are correct!! I actually find it shameful that even reviewers are unwilling to state the facts as they are: It's either there or it's not!. I also believe there is a double standard (among professional reviewers) when it comes to anything LCOS or DILA (read JVC and SONY) vs DLP projectors. Specifically, every reviewer is willing to commit and state for the record that LCOS and DILA projectors produce much better blacks---and that is as it should be because they really do. However, if DLP projectors have no "ghosting" or "crosstalk" in 3D performance then it should also be stated as fact. Again, it's either there or it's not. With 3D becoming all the craze, I believe DLP projectors are (or will be) the holy grail in the 3D arena--just like LCOS and DILA in the 2D (Blacks) reproduction. It just needs to be acknowledged.

yea, this Epson thing messed up my mind now...I am now having second thoughts ! Are you saying it WILL have ghosting ? (just as HD33 DOEST NOT have ghosting)
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post #640 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srauly View Post

Just so's I know...what are the most popular DLP Link glasses available? And how do DLP Link glasses work? They're not RF, but they're not IR either, right?

There is a thread just on "how do DLP Link glasses work" ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1355299

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post #641 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

yea, this Epson thing messed up my mind now...I am now having second thoughts ! Are you saying it WILL have ghosting ? (just as HD33 DOEST NOT have ghosting)

I'd have switched to Epson 3010 - if it had lens shift. Without that - I see no major reason to go with Epson, though it is a little cheaper given free glasses and 2 yr warranty.

edit : I should note that we don't yet know whether 3010 will have lens shift or not. Low end EU models don't - but US models could be different.

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post #642 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 02:20 PM
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this pj too cheap

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post #643 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

you cant go wrong with Optoma BG-ZD101 DLP

Why go with DLP Link at that price compared to RF glasses from Optoma ? DLP Link will "pollute" the PQ with white (or was that blue) flashes.

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post #644 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

Guitarman, not sure if you tried both glasses options, but (if you did) can you comment on this please?

thanks

atabea

Nope just the 2 pair of Optoma glasses they sent with the machine can't help. I can say when watching 3D there's no green tint I saw, just natural and excellent vibrant color. I know someone said they had a slight green tint, you would clear that up with the advanced RGB control by pushing up the red and green gains and bias. Another way would be to lower the green gain and bias but that would lower brightness, do it my other way.

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post #645 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

Why go with DLP Link at that price compared to RF glasses from Optoma ? DLP Link will "pollute" the PQ with white (or was that blue) flashes.

atleast to my eyes, this white pollution is blocked by glasses and I felt that blacks were not compromised once you put on the glasses (compared to Nvidia 3D for example where there is no white-sync-frame that DLP-link needs)...but I dont have a dedicated HT setup that has everythingthing painted black....In such setups may be its more obvious.

Having said that, I will be trying RF glasses soon and can comment on the comparison.
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post #646 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

this pj too cheap

which PJ ? too cheap in price or quality ?
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post #647 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 03:21 PM
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Hey atabea...That is a good point. Luckily, I do not have that problem as the Rotel does allow for bass management on the Muli-Channel Input. Again, that is a very good point and I could see how that could become a deal breaker for someone. All of that aside, I was just hoping to give everyone out there another avenue to explore which may solve their audio problem.
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post #648 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

I don't want to create a rift between DLP and LCD 3D, but the new Epson has 480hz panels, which should virtually eliminate ghosting. I believe Art has implied this.

Didn't the Sony 3d pj's refresh at 240hz and still suffered bad ghosting? I thought I heard that refresh rate doesn't necessarily have a direct connection to ghosting or lack there of. The rs40 actually ghosted worse when run at 120hz versus 96hz.

With that being said, I do hope that lcd and lcos will be ghost-free soon as well. More choices the better!
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post #649 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 04:01 PM
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Its not so much the refresh rate, its the rise and fall times of LCD that are an order of magnitude worse than DLP. Even the response times listed in milliseconds is misleading and inaccurate, as its usually about 10 times worse than advertised for LCD. DLP is light and mirrors, there is no fall time at all, thus no ghosting.
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post #650 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

yea, this Epson thing messed up my mind now...I am now having second thoughts ! Are you saying it WILL have ghosting ? (just as HD33 DOEST NOT have ghosting)

Its not so much the refresh rate, its the rise and fall times of LCD that are an order of magnitude worse than DLP. Even the response times listed in milliseconds is misleading and inaccurate, as its usually about 10 times worse than advertised for LCD. DLP is light and mirrors, there is no fall time at all, thus no ghosting.

The statement above is absolutely true! LCD is inherently "slower" than any other technology (Plasma, DLP etc.) and therefore is not naturally able to handle motion as well as the others. Regardless of how much the refresh rate has been multiplied (in an effort to mask these shortcomings) in most LCD based Panels and projectors, it will always be a step behind in terms of ghosting and crosstalk. It's just the nature of the beast.
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post #651 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgecrush View Post

What's up everyone. I'm not sure if this has been discussed already since the thread is so long...but...I may have a suggestion concerning the Blu-Ray audio issues people seem to be running into. I have a Rotel RSP-1098 processor. It does not have any support for HDMI at all. I am also into sound so I needed to have a Blu-Ray player that had 7.1 analog outputs in order to get full resolution audio such as DTS Master Audio.

Now, I ordered the HD33, like many of you. I should receive it Thursday...Can't wait! So, now, of course I need a 3d Blu-Ray player and really did not want to spend $500 on the Oppo in order to get the 7.1 analog outputs. I know many of you are going for the players with dual HDMI outputs but I do not have ANY HDMI switching in my processor. Samsung made the BD-C6900 which is now discontinued. I happened to walk into Best Buy over the weekend and run into an open box of this exact player. I walked out of the store with it for $100! All hooked up, with all the latest apps, 3d, and 7.1 analog outputs, I am a pretty happy man and all ready for the projector to arrive.

Again, I'm not sure if this has been suggested already but, Ebay, Videogon, Amazon, or Best Buy open box...You should be able to still snatch up 1 of these players and, as long as you have open 7.1 analog inputs on your processor or receiver, you should be good to go.

That was a good tip because it got me looking. I found the Samsung 6800 model refurbed for $85 it has the 7.1 analogs and converts 2D to 3D. I'll go back to sending sound through my Arcam and video through Onkyo just a switcher. Best of both worlds, thanks for the heads up.

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post #652 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

Its not so much the refresh rate, its the rise and fall times of LCD that are an order of magnitude worse than DLP. Even the response times listed in milliseconds is misleading and inaccurate, as its usually about 10 times worse than advertised for LCD. DLP is light and mirrors, there is no fall time at all, thus no ghosting.

The statement above is absolutely true! LCD is inherently "slower" than any other technology (Plasma, DLP etc.) and therefore is not naturally able to handle motion as well as the others. Regardless of how much the refresh rate has been multiplied (in an effort to mask these shortcomings) in most LCD based Panels and projectors, it will always be a step behind in terms of ghosting and crosstalk. It's just the nature of the beast.

i hated the crosstalk on LCD TV's....worse than Plasma...but the lemon-plasma i got had worst crosstalk..i almost gave up om 3D till i stumbled into DLP world !

are you guys saying that the same limitations of LCD carry over to projectors ?
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post #653 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 07:32 PM
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DLP Link-based 3D VS. RF glasses. Anyone tried both and which one is better?
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post #654 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 08:19 PM
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Anyone found a good price for the Bit Cauldron or Optoma glasses? Ive only been able to find the Monster branded ones.. and like all monster stuff.. way over priced.
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post #655 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 08:21 PM
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guitarman -

what kind of onkyo video switching are you using? no matter which player i opt for (one of those samsung's with 7.1 outputs or an oppo, which i don't want to spring for but would love its sacd and dvd-a compatibility), i'll still need an hdmi switch since i'll need my main receiver's hdmi output (not 3d capable), the PS3's hdmi output for 3d video games, and the new BD player's output going to the projector. I figure the only solution is using an hdmi switch for the receiver's non-3d output and one of the samsung's 3d outputs, and then sending the ps3 straight to the projector.
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post #656 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 08:28 PM
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Just get the Oppo and be done with it. There is no other player to get if you can swing it. Get the best. I wouldn't part with my 93 for anything.
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post #657 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Wellywell View Post

Just get the Oppo and be done with it. There is no other player to get if you can swing it. Get the best. I wouldn't part with my 93 for anything.

Could you highlight what makes Oppo worth $500 ? I am seriously thinking getting a multi-region Bluray player as Amazon.co.uk has many Region-B 3D's that aren't released in US
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post #658 of 5306 Old 09-06-2011, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

guitarman -

what kind of onkyo video switching are you using? no matter which player i opt for (one of those samsung's with 7.1 outputs or an oppo, which i don't want to spring for but would love its sacd and dvd-a compatibility), i'll still need an hdmi switch since i'll need my main receiver's hdmi output (not 3d capable), the PS3's hdmi output for 3d video games, and the new BD player's output going to the projector. I figure the only solution is using an hdmi switch for the receiver's non-3d output and one of the samsung's 3d outputs, and then sending the ps3 straight to the projector.

I have a Onkyo SR608 it sounds very very good, but hey the Arcam is out of this world. Hench I'll use the 608 for HDMI switching.

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post #659 of 5306 Old 09-07-2011, 02:04 AM
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Because of the shutter glasses, part of the display chain is reliant on fast LCD switching. Perhaps this is the source of any 3D problems noted by the reviewers, and not the DLP part.
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post #660 of 5306 Old 09-07-2011, 03:36 AM
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Just got my hd33 today. Here are my impressions:

1) 2d: contrast and sharpness not as good a Mitsubishi hc4000. Not bad though.

2) 3d: 1080p big improvement in detail over 720p. Ghosting not an issue. There is an interesting black artifact that looks like it could be ghosting. See Guardian Owls at 49:58. Pretty sure I noticed this on my Acer too. The flames in that shot have a black ghost image, along with other things.

3) Frame interpolation: Might be the smoothest version of this I've seen. Looks pretty amazing on an animated 3d movie, especially on high.

Now for the biggest issue I've noticed: The keystone correction is broken. It will cause the image to
be compressed vertically, leaving black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. I know one of the first persons to get this pj noticed this issue.
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