Panasonic PT-AR100 MSRP$ 1,999 - 4000U replacement... kind of - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1009 Old 11-01-2011, 02:59 PM
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So would the w6000 be a better buy then the 8350 or hc4000? I have seen the w6000 at most places now days for 1499.

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post #182 of 1009 Old 11-01-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesVG81 View Post

So would the w6000 be a better buy then the 8350 or hc4000? I have seen the w6000 at most places now days for 1499.

IMO yes it would. I remember a good friend buying one for $2500 not long after it was released. He's still happy with it. Being the only dlp with lens shift and a iris, it's tough to match in this price class as far as 2D goes.
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post #183 of 1009 Old 11-01-2011, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

IMO yes it would. I remember a good friend buying one for $2500 not long after it was released. He's still happy with it. Being the only dlp with lens shift and a iris, it's tough to match in this price class as far as 2D goes.


What about W6000 vs 8700UB?

Would this be correct?

W6000 - Bit more lumens for day mode, more pop, better for gaming than 8700UB, can be had for $400 less than 8700UB

8700UB - Bit better blacks for very dark scenes, more "film" like picture, more lamp life, free spare bulb, Epson's great customer support.


Thanks for the help....I think I am down to these two now for my top picks.
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post #184 of 1009 Old 11-01-2011, 05:00 PM
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Trying not to sound ungrateful or anything but why the heck can't projectorcentral have a just few sample images like Art does on his website. I mean is it that big of a deal to post a few images so we can get a feel how it looks. I don't expect them to put tons on like Art but c'mon shees..
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post #185 of 1009 Old 11-01-2011, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slennon View Post

Having read that I'm still undecided 8350 vs AR100. I am planning to use the PJ in a living room type environemnt so seems teh Panny fits teh bill, but here in Canada I will pay about $1100 for the 8350 and around $2000 for the Panny. MSRP on it here is $2499 . Given the price difference I'm leaning towards teh 8350. Local AV shop will have them side by side in a week or two.

Yep, I'm there too. Even at the same price, I think the 8350 would be better for my living-room setup. I only have about a 95" diagonal 16:9 screen. Not too hard to light that. Brightest light I deal with is a streetlight that hits my clearstory window and the screen. It kills absolute black level, but not tht much. The 8350 should be planety bright. My hope was the new panels would provide a bit better brightness and a bit better contrast. I'd probably run the 100 on Eco while the 8350 on full-brightness, so the review sure didn't indicate this was a must-have for me.
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post #186 of 1009 Old 11-01-2011, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

Yep, I'm there too. Even at the same price, I think the 8350 would be better for my living-room setup. I only have about a 95" diagonal 16:9 screen. Not too hard to light that. Brightest light I deal with is a streetlight that hits my clearstory window and the screen. It kills absolute black level, but not tht much. The 8350 should be planety bright. My hope was the new panels would provide a bit better brightness and a bit better contrast. I'd probably run the 100 on Eco while the 8350 on full-brightness, so the review sure didn't indicate this was a must-have for me.

Bang for the buck-wise, it's hard not to like the 8350. Lot of projector for a grand.....
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post #187 of 1009 Old 11-01-2011, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

Yep, I'm there too. Even at the same price, I think the 8350 would be better for my living-room setup. I only have about a 95" diagonal 16:9 screen. Not too hard to light that. Brightest light I deal with is a streetlight that hits my clearstory window and the screen. It kills absolute black level, but not tht much. The 8350 should be planety bright. My hope was the new panels would provide a bit better brightness and a bit better contrast. I'd probably run the 100 on Eco while the 8350 on full-brightness, so the review sure didn't indicate this was a must-have for me.

Shouldn't you consider the 8700Ub as well? Can be had in Canada for $1999, plus free bulb, so really cheaper than the AR100.
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post #188 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HingisFan View Post

Shouldn't you consider the 8700Ub as well? Can be had in Canada for $1999, plus free bulb, so really cheaper than the AR100.

It was on my review list. I don't have perfect light control - I do need extra light, but the AR100 doesn't look like the right trade-off. I thought it was going to be, but it has to hit the black levels of the last generation to work for me.
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post #189 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 07:58 AM
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I was hoping that the AR-100 would be the AE7000 minus the 3D capability, which I have zero interest in. Unfortunately that is not the case, with the AR-100 being aimed at TV watching and gaming , with super brightness but with poor black levels. I want a projector for movies in a dark room on a 115ins wide 2.35 screen. The AE7000 would totally fill my requirements, but the 3D capability has driven the price beyond what I am willing to pay. Why on earth did'nt Panasonic offer a 2D only version of the AE7000 at about a $2000.00 price point? I feel Panny have missed an opportunity to sweep the $2000.00 price point field, just like they did with the AE700. The AE700 was a winner in every way for Panasonic, and me, but I am still looking for my next Panasonic projector, and so far I do'nt see it.
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post #190 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 08:14 AM
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So what are the advantages/disavantages of the 4000, w6000, 8700UB? Price, C/R, brightness, detail, motion, lag, color, filmlikeness, etc?
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post #191 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 09:56 AM
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Well....now I am really unsure of what to go with. I found a small local dealer who only deals with Epsons and had an 8700UB on demo in a nice dark room. Slight ambient light coming in, but not much. We watched about 20 minutes of Iron Man 2 blu-ray on a 96" screen. Film was very clear and sharp, nice colours, very film-like picture, very nice blacks......BUT, some of the motion scenes looked very un-natural. Honestly, it looked kind of like my buddy's 120hz LCD with that auto-motion crap turned on. Not exactly sure what that effect is called, if it's soap opera effect or what, but I don't like it. We went through the menus of the 8700UB and there didn't seem to be a way to adjust it or turn it off like there is on LCD TVs. So, if this is how it is all the time on LCD PJs, I think I am going DLP all the way.

Can anyone clarify this for me???
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post #192 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

It was on my review list. I don't have perfect light control - I do need extra light, but the AR100 doesn't look like the right trade-off. I thought it was going to be, but it has to hit the black levels of the last generation to work for me.


remember that review was done from very close distance (PJ & screen),if you go with telezoom, your black level will increase greatly. Also,from what I read in that review going to Eco mode in cinema 1,you getting about 600 lumens,which is just perfect for living room.
Tom
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post #193 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomek1 View Post

remember that review was done from very close distance (PJ & screen),if you go with telezoom, your black level will increase greatly. Also,from what I read in that review going to Eco mode in cinema 1,you getting about 600 lumens,which is just perfect for living room.
Tom

Tom, If I may be so bold... how do you think the unit would perform in a completely light controlled room, from 21 feet away, shining on a 126" Carada BW (1.4 gain) screen?

I currently have a Panasonic AX200. I'd prefer not to have to move a new projector any closer as it will bring it 'into' the theater room (it shines through an opening in the wall at the moment).

I really want this unit to work, but if it won't... It won't. I'll keep looking. I have not interest in 3D, but I do want at least as good as black levels and picture quality as I have now. I would think going from 720p to 1080p would certainly offset any shortcomings of

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post #194 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTiVo View Post

Tom, If I may be so bold... how do you think the unit would perform in a completely light controlled room, from 21 feet away, shining on a 126" Carada BW (1.4 gain) screen?

I currently have a Panasonic AX200. I'd prefer not to have to move a new projector any closer as it will bring it 'into' the theater room (it shines through an opening in the wall at the moment).

I really want this unit to work, but if it won't... It won't. I'll keep looking. I have not interest in 3D, but I do want at least as good as black levels and picture quality as I have now. I would think going from 720p to 1080p would certainly offset any shortcomings of

I have a very similar setup ; over 19' from screen,100" diagonal,living room with 9 skylights (screen is placed in the darkest part of that room...) and in the evening I don't like to seat and watch my movies in complete darkness. Lens shift is a must ; shelf installation. In my opinion , AR-100 is gonna be perfect. That excessive brightness is coming down with Eco mode engaged and increased distance from screen,same for black levels. What I need ,is the light power of that PJ to make good PQ and nice pop. But,this is my setup,others may differ in opinions.
Definitely I'm going with that purchase. Now,I'm waiting to finish a nest for my new PJ (building a shelf...),and for another reviews ; from Art,and regular users in AVS forum. In about a month,I be ready to order. Then,I will post my own impressions,but I know now,I be not unhappy camper...
Tom
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post #195 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 12:48 PM
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one more thing ; according to ProjectorCentral review, epson 8350 is designed for almost completely dark room ( black levels), and ar-100 is designed for living room with constant presence of ambient light,even in the evening...

Tom
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post #196 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 12:51 PM
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Thanks for the detailed response, Tom. You've just about convinced me again. I was waiting this unit to become available, but then the Projector Central review kinda set me back. They do mention that the shortcomings they do mention are SLIGHT, so based on your thoughts and my requirements, I think this projector is back at the top of the list for me.

I'm waiting on nothing other than some more feedback... I'll probably pull the trigger in a couple of weeks. I'll be sure to post my observations.

As for the lighting, that was my concern about the AR100. It's designed for brighter environments, whereas my theater is as dark as I want it. If I need to, I guess I can always turn the lights up a bit.

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post #197 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 01:47 PM
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I went and saw the 8350 and the Ar100 head to head today at my local store. Keep in mind I am a complete noob and have not interest in being a video file. For what its worth I didn't think the panny was worth the $1000 premium compared to the Epson here in Ottawa Canada. It was very bright, so bright in fact that the sales guys were kind of dissapointed in it. After playing with it for a couple of days they felt it's best suited to a great room that's open to other parts of the house with lights on all the time or to a highrise condo wth lots of windows you cant close. More of a niche projector and not as much an all rounder as they had hoped.

We also looked at the 8350 in a variety of ligt conditions from full on "office" bright to some ambient lighting. Picture was fine for me with all the lights on. Not absolute black, but not washed out either. Keep in mind that I'm talking a BRIGHT room with all the lights on full, no window shade down. This room is much brighter than my current room. Even with those condiions I was happywith teh PQ. When the lights were lowered I became more impressed. So, for me it's a no brainer. I'm picking the 8350 and spending the difference on speakers! BTW the place I dealt with was great. If any of you in Eastern Ontario want the name feel free to PM me.
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post #198 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 02:14 PM
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i was kinda excited about the PT-AR100 as a replacement for my 4 year old Panasonic AE1000 in my livingroom theater. Since there is almost always some light on during my TV and movie watching, I was attracted by the high light output of this projector. But two issues stand out in my evaluation as less than ideal. The 29dB (eco power) noise lever is higher than any of the 5 previous projectors I have owned and is 7dBs higher that of my current projector that is table mounted right next to my seating position.

The second issue is the higher wattage (280W) lamp, that I expect will generate a good bit more heat than my current projector's (165W) lamp. I have grown accustom to the heat output from my projector, but I would not want to increase it by 65%.

I have generally been very satisfied with my AE1000, except that recently I upgraded the 40" LED flat panel in the same room and now I desire the greater contrast and light output provided to me by the flat panel and all of a sudden the 106" projected image seems a bit lacking.

For $1099, the Epson 8350 really looks like my best choice, as it will be much quieter, should be cooler and will only sacrifice a little in overall brightness. And compared to the AR100, it should provide as much contrast in typical livingroom lighting conditions and somewhat more in all lights off mode.
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post #199 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTiVo View Post

Tom, If I may be so bold... how do you think the unit would perform in a completely light controlled room, from 21 feet away, shining on a 126" Carada BW (1.4 gain) screen?

I currently have a Panasonic AX200. I'd prefer not to have to move a new projector any closer as it will bring it 'into' the theater room (it shines through an opening in the wall at the moment).

I really want this unit to work, but if it won't... It won't. I'll keep looking. I have not interest in 3D, but I do want at least as good as black levels and picture quality as I have now. I would think going from 720p to 1080p would certainly offset any shortcomings of

Joe,
My take on it was as soon as you said completely light controlled the AR100 became the wrong projector for the situation. The Epson 8700 or Panasonic 4000 are going to be better solutions - not sure which will throw long-distance better. You will not be running in Eco mode.
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post #200 of 1009 Old 11-02-2011, 07:33 PM
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I'm not so sure if pana 4000 is strong enough to throw light from 21' (that's only 9 fl with a new bulb...) but epson 8700 or 8350 is giving a decent 20 fl from the same distance,and that's good... So, in complete light controlled room I think that epson is gonna be a better choice for you,Joe. AR-100 is rather designed for a lot of ambient light.You have no need for so much light power....and you gonna save some money if it's going to be an epson 8350 ($900-$1100). Something to think about...
Tom
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post #201 of 1009 Old 11-03-2011, 05:52 AM
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Thanks guys... yeah, the throw charts on the 4000 have always lead me to believe I would be pushing it. I figured if I go with that projector, I'd have to move the unit into the theater room (which I don't wanna do).

The Epson is a possibility I guess. I'd have to see that in person first. I've always been very satisfied with the Panny projectors so before I change brands, I'd have to see it first.

I wonder what kind of return policy most of the online retailers have? It'd be nice to have 30 days or so to 'try it out'.

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post #202 of 1009 Old 11-03-2011, 06:01 AM
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This projector looks like it may be made for me. My current projector, panny ax100u, is my only tv. It's in my living room, I have a 145" screen and there is the kitchen at the back of the room. I do my best trying to control the light but can only do so much. Sports look fine on my current projector. TV in the daytime or with the kitchen light on is washed out.

We can watch a show or two or a movie in the evening with all lights off and the kids in bed and it looks decent then but most of the time we aren't watching under those conditions.

Very tempting.

HTPC: Intel e6300 2.8ghz, Intel DG45ID, 2gb DDR2, Radeon 5570, MCE IR receiver, Yamaha RX-V663 receiver via HDMI, panasonic ax100u, 145" S-I-L-V-E-R painted screen, 2x Roku 3's, chromecast, Amazon Fire TV, Vizio M602i-B3
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post #203 of 1009 Old 11-03-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

This projector looks like it may be made for me. My current projector, panny ax100u, is my only tv. It's in my living room, I have a 145" screen and there is the kitchen at the back of the room. I do my best trying to control the light but can only do so much. Sports look fine on my current projector. TV in the daytime or with the kitchen light on is washed out.

We can watch a show or two or a movie in the evening with all lights off and the kids in bed and it looks decent then but most of the time we aren't watching under those conditions.

Very tempting.



Yes,that's definitely very good scenario for entertainment type PJ, ar-100 it's not a typical home theater projector designed for dark,light controlled room. Just don't come to close with the mount to your screen....
Tom
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post #204 of 1009 Old 11-03-2011, 11:40 AM
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Can't you always turn the brightness down? I have an AX-200 and I always have some light around the viewing area even if there is no light on in the room. This looks like it may be a good choice for me also. I doubt the black level is as bad as some here have made it out to be.
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post #205 of 1009 Old 11-03-2011, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by iolmaster View Post

Can't you always turn the brightness down? I have an AX-200 and I always have some light around the viewing area even if there is no light on in the room. This looks like it may be a good choice for me also. I doubt the black level is as bad as some here have made it out to be.


you can get brightness down in a few different ways,and black levels are,naturally not that good like in home theater PJ...however that's not to say that ar-100 is bad in "black dept"... it's just not comparable with higher class devices. I'm not that picky about black levels,I need a pop and extra brightness is gonna deliver it from 19'.
Tom
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post #206 of 1009 Old 11-03-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomek1 View Post

you can get brightness down in a few different ways,and black levels are,naturally not that good like in home theater PJ...however that's not to say that ar-100 is bad in "black dept"... it's just not comparable with higher class devices. I'm not that picky about black levels,I need a pop and extra brightness is gonna deliver it from 19'.
Tom

It's all a trade off. I expect that all of them have a great picture. Many people fixate on certain things.
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post #207 of 1009 Old 11-03-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iolmaster View Post

Can't you always turn the brightness down? I have an AX-200 and I always have some light around the viewing area even if there is no light on in the room. This looks like it may be a good choice for me also. I doubt the black level is as bad as some here have made it out to be.

I agree, black level should be as good as your AX-200. I think the PT-AR100 looks like a very good projector for a particular use - decent sized screen with poor light control - or a really huge screen. It could be a good cheap option for a 200" screen in a school auditorium for example.
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post #208 of 1009 Old 11-03-2011, 02:52 PM
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I will say this, I still enjoy my Ax-200 and will probably continue to use it until it needs a bulb or something else goes. I have had it three years at this point and still think it has a great picture. 1300 hours on the lamp. No complaints here.
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post #209 of 1009 Old 11-04-2011, 09:10 AM
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From the PC review

"Frame interpolation. While the Motion Effect system does help to smooth out fast-moving scenes somewhat, it is no match for a true frame interpolation system like that on the AE7000. As the AR100U is a living room projector and sports programming benefits from FI more than just about any other type of content, this is doubly unfortunate. In addition, Panasonic has one of the smoothest, cleanest frame interpolation systems in production, so its presence is missed."

my point exactly. To the jacka$$ at Panasonic who decided to cut the $20 chip that would have provided FI from this pj, way to go buddy, you've cost you're company thousands of sales and the opportunity to win back many former customers who went to epson during your 2-years with no new products. Bravo.
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post #210 of 1009 Old 11-04-2011, 11:18 AM
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^^^^^
they removed smooth screen and added a lot of digital noise.

Paulmyla
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