My Epson 3010 projector just arrived! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2004 Old 10-22-2011, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by c-69 View Post

@jmalto
Epson shows the hours after 10 hours so you can test it without it showing.
After 11 hours you will have 11 hours on the counter.
As for the fine tuning especially shadow areas, you might find my blog useful
look for: Epson EH-TW3200 - the right adjustment
http://tw3200.blogspot.com/

this article tells nothing about optimizing. it says "Just read the blog and you will know how to optimize your projector too" How bout you provide a link to the optimizing page
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post #272 of 2004 Old 10-22-2011, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by c-69 View Post

@jmalto
Epson shows the hours after 10 hours so you can test it without it showing.
After 11 hours you will have 11 hours on the counter.
.

alot of these online stores allow upto 5 hrs of testing before the PJ can be returned w/o any restocking fees....if the abvove is true, does it mean you effectively have 10 hrs before the PJ records it the lamp life ?
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post #273 of 2004 Old 10-22-2011, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

alot of these online stores allow upto 5 hrs of testing before the PJ can be returned w/o any restocking fees....if the abvove is true, does it mean you effectively have 10 hrs before the PJ records it the lamp life ?

I think that's may be preety std...the same with my Mitsu....
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post #274 of 2004 Old 10-22-2011, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mariokrt64 View Post

I think that's may be preety std...the same with my Mitsu....

how will they know if you used 5 hrs or 9 hrs if the lamp shows 0 ?
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post #275 of 2004 Old 10-22-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

how will they know if you used 5 hrs or 9 hrs if the lamp shows 0 ?


For some reason that seems funny to me .


Sony hw30 I had for a test started at hour 1. My epson6500 UB does the 0 hours until 10.
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post #276 of 2004 Old 10-22-2011, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-69 View Post

@jmalto
Epson shows the hours after 10 hours so you can test it without it showing.
After 11 hours you will have 11 hours on the counter.
As for the fine tuning especially shadow areas, you might find my blog useful
look for: Epson EH-TW3200 - the right adjustment
http://tw3200.blogspot.com/

to check for flaws of the panels, create a black and a white 1920x1080 gif picture (no compression artifacts) and go in front of the screen and look.

If you want to take a good picture of the screen, freeze the frame, put the camera on a stand if possible in center of the picture and use the 2 sec self timer, measure the brightness only on the screen, you might need to use exposure compensation for fine tuning.
Crop of the non screen parts and resize to 1920 or 1280 wide.

thanks for sharing your finding especially the ghosting - or non ghosting thingy.

C,

Thanks but as mentioned it isn't there if there is color projected where the spot would be. I also tested an all-black background and it is not there. Interestingly enough it IS there in between loading screens for batman which tells me there may be something wrong but just minor. I am going to call Epson to see what they say. It is more annoying that I paid $1,600 for a brand new unit and it is there

Can anyone else confirm if they are seeing this?
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post #277 of 2004 Old 10-22-2011, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by counterbond View Post

is it just there when theres no signal? if so who cares, if it shows up during black scenes or better yet, open up paint on your pc and paint a black image, save it and open it full screen slideshow style. only way you'll be able to check it out. glad to hear you can see any ghosting so far, i know alot of people including my self were very pissed off when projector central dropped that bomb. good scenes that would show ghosting are black backgrounds with only white letters.

oh ya.. if it does show up, what i was told by epson to do was put my hand over the exhaust and put a vacuum cleaner up to the spot where the air filter goes.. at least that was with my 8350.. i dont think it was an epson recommended procedure, but thats what the guy in customer service told me lol

The letters in Resident Evil Afterlife during the intro against the rainy background ghost like crazy on my Plasma. There is no ghosting on the Epson at all and I did not notice any ghosting in the dark scenes towards the end of Monsters vs. Aliens, Space Hobble which is one of the darkest movies I've seen, or in THOR either.

If someone wants to give me specific movies and scenes to test I will be glad to.
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post #278 of 2004 Old 10-23-2011, 08:25 PM
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jmalto,

How does the 2D compared to HW30 in terms of blacks/contrast and motion ?
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post #279 of 2004 Old 10-23-2011, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post


If someone wants to give me specific movies and scenes to test I will be glad to.

Yeah, the Tridef 3D test screen if you would please. Seems this is where LCD/LCOS falls on its face.
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post #280 of 2004 Old 10-23-2011, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Seems this is where LCD/LCOS falls on its face.

WTH? Again, you state this, in spite of the evidence. Unless there's been some more pics posted in the last few days, the only basis you have for saying the LCD "falls on its face" with the tridef test screen are the pics *I* posted, and your statement is not consistent with them at all. The pics I've posted of BOTH SYSTEMS show VERY similar ghosting on DLP and LCD (possibly even more on the dlp). Why are you only able to pick up a portion of the information POSTED IN THE SAME POST??

DLP:



LCD:



If you don't like the results, of if you think they're somehow biased, that's fine - dismiss them outright. To only quote the portion of the results that supports your position, while ignoring the portion that does not, is not logically supportable.

All or nothing. Either these pics are valid, or they aren't. If the former, you'll note that in NEITHER pic can you make out the central "L" at all, so "falls on its face" is nonsense. If the latter, then you must ignore them all.
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post #281 of 2004 Old 10-23-2011, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post


WTH? Again, you state this, in spite of the evidence. The only basis you have for saying the LCD "falls on its face" with the tridef test screen are the pics *I* posted, and your statement is not consistent with them at all. The pics I've posted of BOTH SYSTEMS show VERY similar ghosting on DLP and LCD. Why are you only able to pick up a portion of the information POSTED IN THE SAME POST??

DLP:

LCD:

If you don't like the results, dismiss them outright. To only quote the portion of the results that supports your position, while ignoring the portion that does not, is not logically supportable.

All or nothing. Either these pics are valid, or they aren't. If the former, you'll note that in NEITHER pic can you make out the central "L" at all. If the latter, then you must ignore them all.

Did you see a huge jump in black level from the DLP projector to the LCD? Because your pics really seem to show much deeper blacks on the LCD.
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post #282 of 2004 Old 10-23-2011, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Did you see a huge jump in black level from the DLP projector to the LCD? Because your pics really seem to show much deeper blacks on the LCD.

Yes, blacks are deeper and DLP is not nearly as bright- but that's not surprising, since my DLP has 3000+ hours on the lamp and was a dimmer projector to start with. To clarify, though, this comparison is NOT an HD33, it's a pro350w (same as hd66). The hd33 will likely have far superior blacks and brightness. These pictures are testing the theory that DLP *in general* is superior in ghosting. Perhaps some specific models have an advantage, or perhaps not, but this stands as evidence that it's not a universal truth.

On top of that, from my testing, it really seems like the glasses are the source of the minimal ghosting that does remain, not the display at all.
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post #283 of 2004 Old 10-23-2011, 10:59 PM
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[quote=defiancecp;21118180]WTH? Again, you state this, in spite of the evidence. Unless there's been some more pics posted in the last few days, the only basis you have for saying the LCD "falls on its face" with the tridef test screen are the pics *I* posted, and your statement is not consistent with them at all. The pics I've posted of BOTH SYSTEMS show VERY similar ghosting on DLP and LCD (possibly even more on the dlp). Why are you only able to pick up a portion of the information POSTED IN THE SAME POST??

I do not know. This is the first time I saw those pics and quite honestly I do not know what is going on here. Is someone trying to Efff with me? Not happy how the pics now show ghosting in DLP and not LCD but wait a minute, nobody could see it anyway the way it is cropped in the LCD version. You know what, I don"t care enough to continue this argument. I just thought I could help a few folks in the 3D area. If you are truly happy with your unit and think the 3D is the bomb then giddyup. I know what works flawlessly for me.
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post #284 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

I do not know. This is the first time I saw those pics and quite honestly I do not know what is going on here. Is someone trying to Efff with me? Not happy how the pics now show ghosting in DLP and not LCD but wait a minute, nobody could see it anyway the way it is cropped in the LCD version. You know what, I don"t care enough to continue this argument. I just thought I could help a few folks in the 3D area. If you are truly happy with your unit and think the 3D is the bomb then giddyup. I know what works flawlessly for me.

Both pics show more ghosting than my eye can discern; the center of the image with the big "L/R" is consistent with what I see across the entire image for both projectors. Which is effectively non-visible (measurable in a black-on-white scene, but not visibly detectable under normal circumstances). I think that may have to do with distance from the camera lens to the glasses, or something like that - if you take active glasses and put them at a 45* angle to your face, you'll see they don't work properly, and I think by having the camera lens right up against the glasses lens I was making the outer edges of the image act the same way - especially with the camera stand being so close to the image - so I'm going to take some time to try and get more representative pics of both this afternoon, with camera lens about eye distance from glasses lens, and glasses normal seating distance and centered on the screen.


The side of the screen in the lcd pic is not cropped out, that's the nose of the glasses in the way (sorry!). I had a lan party this weekend, so I haven't had a chance to take the pics again. After work today I plan on getting those fixed. Sorry, I thought since you were referencing the tridef test screens you were referencing my screens as showing the LCD falling on its face, which it clearly isn't doing.
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post #285 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 06:25 AM
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FYI- I picked up a 3010 last night at Best Buy. Have not tried 3D yet but so far very, very good.
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post #286 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 06:26 AM
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Mike has some good points and I think he has added to this thread. I do think he is going a little overboard with the DLP being crosstalk FREE and if the 3010 isn't then it is terrible. He has given us well over 2 cents, in my opinion! All in good fun.

I think most of us are not looking for perfect 3D when <5% of our viewing will be 3D. If you are going to be 50% 3D you'll have to look into another solution that will probably cost more....and you will probably not get as many lumens for a big screen OR you'll have to make some other compromise. Let's face it, no PJ is perfect. DLPs have their advantages just like LCD and LCOS. All we need now is to have someone come to this thread and say the Epson is terrible because the black levels are not like the JVCs.

Also, you may see more crosstalk on the Epson just because the contrast and brightness are better. If the picture is dim, crosstalk will be even dimmer.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #287 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 07:09 AM
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Yep, agreed- sorry to go off a bit there, I thought he was selectively taking data from my tests and ignoring others bits, but it looks like I misread. My apologies. I'll try to improve my reading comprehension
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post #288 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 07:20 AM
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defiancecp: Love the pics of crosstalk you have posted. This makes me much more comfortable with the 3D performance. I'm still undecided about whether the 3010's black level performance is good enough for me in my batcave.

All this talk about crosstalk and I'm still baffled that all of these new 3D PJs can't do 1080 for games! I don't hear much talk of that. Makes a good case for a two PJ setup if you don't care about RBE and you don't need lens shift (for the 3D PJ) and are a gamer.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #289 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasMergner View Post

defiancecp: Love the pics of crosstalk you have posted. This makes me much more comfortable with the 3D performance. I'm still undecided about whether the 3010's black level performance is good enough for me in my batcave.

All this talk about crosstalk and I'm still baffled that all of these new 3D PJs can't do 1080 for games! I don't hear much talk of that. Makes a good case for a two PJ setup if you don't care about RBE and you don't need lens shift (for the 3D PJ) and are a gamer.

This is a great post and I could not agree more.

The Epson 3010 and Optoma HD33 are entry level 3D 1080p projectors. If you want deeper blacks, CI, etc you can get those features, but it looks like you have to spend 2-3 times more to get it. I am dissapointed in the lack of $1800-2500 projectors..
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post #290 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post


This is a great post and I could not agree more.

The Epson 3010 and Optoma HD33 are entry level 3D 1080p projectors. If you want deeper blacks, CI, etc you can get those features, but it looks like you have to spend 2-3 times more to get it. I am dissapointed in the lack of $1800-2500 projectors..

Then take a look at the Acer H9500BD!
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post #291 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 09:44 AM
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[quote=dave1969;21118439]
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post



stfu up already. Im here to read about the 3010. Not your version of whats better.

Not going to do it Dave. I am here for info on the 3010 as well. You may not like my method but have to admit it is bringing out good information on the 3010 which is what people are looking for when trying to decide between the Optoma and the Epson. I will try to tone down the DLP fanboy stuff but it has resulted in some good feedback from people who have had DLP and now the 3010. Defiancecp has posted some very interesting pictures and observations that have me reconsidering my whole position here.

Believe it or not I am still considering the 3010 as an option. I have not yet made up my mind. So if I have gone overboard or derailed the thread I apologize. I will try to improve my etiquette.

Defiancecp, what I was referring to is the picture of the DLP test pattern where I can see the L circle in the upper left corner. Obviously we should not see that. The LCD picture does not show the left side of the screen. Which PJ and type glasses were used for the DLP pic? At any rate that comparison looks pretty good for the 3010. Keep the good info coming.
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post #292 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by opeters View Post

Then take a look at the Acer H9500BD!

I see some info for Europe on this PJ, but cant find anything in the US about it? Any idea who is selling this in the US and the cost? The specs I am reading from Europe look solid.
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post #293 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post


I see some info for Europe on this PJ, but cant find anything in the US about it? Any idea who is selling this in the US and the cost? The specs I am reading from Europe look solid.

Sorry but I have no info on that, normal we European customers have to wait or order it from eBay
But I could order one for ya and send it to you in a nice gift box ( once I tested it off course ).
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post #294 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opeters View Post

Sorry but I have no info on that, normal we European customers have to wait or order it from eBay
But I could order one for ya and send it to you in a nice gift box ( once I tested it off course ).

Yeah.. Wow, looking over the specs, this Acer sounds exactly what I am looking for. Hope to hear more reports about it and how well it performs.
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post #295 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 10:56 AM
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"Also, you may see more crosstalk on the Epson just because the contrast and brightness are better. If the picture is dim, crosstalk will be even dimmer."

Wait a minute this is wrong. The 3010 doesn't have more contrast then the Optoma, it's just the opposite. They only advantage the 3010 will have is the Iris will close down the lamp in a very dark scene. That's not getting more contrast, 90% of the time the Optoma will be looking better because of the much higher native contrast.

Ok back to the ghosting. Actually it's looking good so far but what's this business as the lamp fades more ghosting appears with LCD tech? I may be wrong I thought I read that somewhere. lmk

I'm serious there's a BB nearby I was thinking of taking a look at one these maybe.

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Are you twisted also?

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post #296 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opeters View Post

Then take a look at the Acer H9500BD!

I don't see this as a 3D PJ. Is it? If not, then the Benq 6000 is a DLP with similar contrast, lens shift and dynamic iris for $1500.

I was thinking today....what is the least expensive 3D PJ with lens shift? All I can think of is the 5010, Panny 7000, and JVC RS-45 all around $3k. Am I missing some PJs?

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #297 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Wait a minute this is wrong. The 3010 doesn't have more contrast then the Optoma, it's just the opposite. They only advantage the 3010 will have is the Iris will close down the lamp in a very dark scene. That's not getting more contrast, 90% of the time the Optoma will be looking better because of the much higher native contrast.

Ok, maybe the Epson is just brighter....although if you check out the pics above posted the Epson looks a lot more contrast-y. Still, you'll see more ghosting when the image is brighter overall. I agree, I don't understand people saying there is more ghosting with an older bulb. The only thing I can think of is that users may be changing to a brighter mode which might change the timing of the 3D glasses to allow more light to come in and causing more ghosting. Otherwise, doesn't make much sense.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #298 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasMergner View Post

Ok, maybe the Epson is just brighter....although if you check out the pics above posted the Epson looks a lot more contrast-y.

Lets also remember that DLP pic is not of the HD33/HD3300 as he has stated several times. He's not trying to compare the two models in those pics.

Optoma has made some advancements just as Epson has in the newer 3D models, so as far as those pics...its just showing older 3D DLP vs. the newer Epson LCD. Im not even sure what the contrast rating of that DLP is, but the new Optoma has higher native 3D contrast than the Epson, so the newer Optoma's should have the more contrast-y look, if anything.

By the way, I'd really like to see the LEFT side of that LCD 3D shot through the glasses...you've done so much testing, cant you at least take another pic?
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post #299 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasMergner View Post

I don't see this as a 3D PJ. Is it? If not, then the Benq 6000 is a DLP with similar contrast, lens shift and dynamic iris for $1500.

I was thinking today....what is the least expensive 3D PJ with lens shift? All I can think of is the 5010, Panny 7000, and JVC RS-45 all around $3k. Am I missing some PJs?

It is 3D as well with some impressive features:
http://www.projectorshop24.co.uk/ace.../acer-h9500bd/

I agree with you. There is a lot lacking in the $2-3K range. Perhaps the BenQ W7000 and Mitsu 7800 will street for under $3K.

I am really leaning towards an Espon 3010 or Optoma HD 33/3300 and then buying something better in about 2 years as the technology improves for 3D and prices go down.
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post #300 of 2004 Old 10-24-2011, 11:19 AM
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Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

The Epson 3010 and Optoma HD33 are entry level 3D 1080p projectors. If you want deeper blacks, CI, etc you can get those features, but it looks like you have to spend 2-3 times more to get it. I am dissapointed in the lack of $1800-2500 projectors..

Quote:
Originally Posted by opeters View Post

Then take a look at the Acer H9500BD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I see some info for Europe on this PJ, but cant find anything in the US about it? Any idea who is selling this in the US and the cost? The specs I am reading from Europe look solid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opeters View Post

Sorry but I have no info on that, normal we European customers have to wait or order it from eBay
But I could order one for ya and send it to you in a nice gift box ( once I tested it off course ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Yeah.. Wow, looking over the specs, this Acer sounds exactly what I am looking for. Hope to hear more reports about it and how well it performs.

For shame on all ya all! Discoursin' 'bout an Acer on sprocket360's most popular Epson 3010 thread!

FWIW, I have a Custom Installer/ Dealer in the UK (London area) who installed that Acer in a Client's home and he's now switched over to Acer from his previous use of the Epson line-up.

Oops! Shame on ME!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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Epson , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 3010e Full Hd 1080p 2d And 3d Home Theater Projector With Integrated Spe , Projectors
Gear in this thread - 3010e by PriceGrabber.com

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