My Epson 3010 projector just arrived! - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

Lets also remember that DLP pic is not of the HD33/HD3300 as he has stated several times. He's not trying to compare the two models in those pics.

Optoma has made some advancements just as Epson has in the newer 3D models, so as far as those pics...its just showing older 3D DLP vs. the newer Epson LCD. Im not even sure what the contrast rating of that DLP is, but the new Optoma has higher native 3D contrast than the Epson, so the newer Optoma's should have the more contrast-y look, if anything.

By the way, I'd really like to see the LEFT side of that LCD 3D shot through the glasses...you've done so much testing, cant you at least take another pic?

That is a good point. And both projectorcentral and projectorreview have stated there is minimal cross talk on the Optoma. Probably not even noticeable by most people on this forum, but clearly there is no such thing as cross-talk free at this point for any of these technologies. It will just come down to how sensitive you are.
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post #302 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

It is 3D as well with some impressive features:
http://www.projectorshop24.co.uk/ace.../acer-h9500bd/

I agree with you. There is a lot lacking in the $2-3K range. Perhaps the BenQ W7000 and Mitsu 7800 will street for under $3K.

I am really leaning towards an Espon 3010 or Optoma HD 33/3300 and then buying something better in about 2 years as the technology improves for 3D and prices go down.

We can also hope for some changes in street prices once all of these PJs are dumped in the around $3K market and there is some more competition.

The Acer 9500 has the Darkchip 2. I guess that is still good, but isn't that old tech?

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post #303 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 11:31 AM
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No 3010 opinion from Elmalloc (Elmo) yet???

He was expecting to get his a week ago. I figured he would chime in since he posted almost hourly before.
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post #304 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

Lets also remember that DLP pic is not of the HD33/HD3300 as he has stated several times. He's not trying to compare the two models in those pics.

You are, of course, correct. I apologize.

Can anyone answer why the 3010 would have less contrast than the 5010 when they use the same LCD technology? I know there is a filter used in the best mode for the 5010, but if that is the only difference, can't I put a filter over the lens and re-calibrate? I know people have been doing this already, but just wondering why the 3010's contrast is worse.

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post #305 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

By the way, I'd really like to see the LEFT side of that LCD 3D shot through the glasses...you've done so much testing, cant you at least take another pic?

Yep, as I said a few times, I was hosting a LAN party this weekend and everything I did before was very rushed and a little messy- I've since figured out several issues with the pics (glasses blocking part of the screen, external devices inline in lag testing, camera lens too close to glasses, camera stand too close and off center from screen, shutter speed not explicitly set, etc.etc.. I have actual time available starting after work this afternoon, and plan do do much more in-depth testing both of lag and ghosting. I'm a testing n00b, go easy on me But point out anything I'm doing wrong and I'll try again as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
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post #306 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

Yep, as I said a few times, I was hosting a LAN party this weekend and everything I did before was very rushed and a little messy- I've since figured out several issues with the pics (glasses blocking part of the screen, external devices inline in lag testing, camera lens too close to glasses, camera stand too close and off center from screen, shutter speed not explicitly set, etc.etc.. I have actual time available starting after work this afternoon, and plan do do much more in-depth testing both of lag and ghosting. I'm a testing n00b, go easy on me But point out anything I'm doing wrong and I'll try again as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

That sounds great, I hope your party went well.

Also, thanks for taking the time to do all of this, I really appreciate it. Even though I own the HD3300 (and I love it) I am always interested to learn more and keep my and my friends options open.
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post #307 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm glad to see there are a few other people getting their 3010's in, and contributing to the thread. Also happy to see that people haven't noticed any significant ghosting either. I downloaded a few free SBS 3d demo videos this weekend they look great no issues with any ghosting or artifacts. since my screen is 100" I don't have any problems with seeing the full screen with my glasses on.



For that pixel issue I read about earlier in this thread check the lens. I had a thumb print on mine (not my thumb I assume someone from manufacturing).
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post #308 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

For shame on all ya all! Discoursin' 'bout an Acer on sprocket360's most popular Epson 3010 thread!

who is sproket ? oh the guy who got everyones juices flowing but later chose not to give out any info that people are dying to hear ?

but seriously, credit goes to him to start this thread as there are many onther new 3010 owners who are much more forthcoming with info !
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post #309 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

That is a good point. And both projectorcentral and projectorreview have stated there is minimal cross talk on the Optoma. Probably not even noticeable by most people on this forum, but clearly there is no such thing as cross-talk free at this point for any of these technologies. It will just come down to how sensitive you are.

I think what most people forget is that HD3300 has a thing in its favor in the long run for 3D.

1) If you use DLP-link glasses, your glasses are synced to the actual image and will keep up with any ageing related changes in timing

2) If you use RF-glasses, you will have full control of the cross-talk behavior

3010 and all other 3D TV technologies that dont use either of the above are locked in to the glasses that come with the PJ/TV and offer very little control of whether you will or wil not see cross-talk (either acorss part to part variation or if this ageing related cross-0talk is indeed real or across different PJ settings). For example, there are several folks on the Panny 7000 3D PJ thread who saw cross-talk and they are out of luck as there is no way to tune it out.

Ofcourse one can alwasy spend the extra bucks to get the RF glasses for these as well....
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post #310 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LoudandClear View Post

No 3010 opinion from Elmalloc (Elmo) yet???

He was expecting to get his a week ago. I figured he would chime in since he posted almost hourly before.

Lets hope Elmalloc is not pulling a "sproket" on us.....
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post #311 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

Yep, as I said a few times, I was hosting a LAN party this weekend and everything I did before was very rushed and a little messy- I've since figured out several issues with the pics (glasses blocking part of the screen, external devices inline in lag testing, camera lens too close to glasses, camera stand too close and off center from screen, shutter speed not explicitly set, etc.etc.. I have actual time available starting after work this afternoon, and plan do do much more in-depth testing both of lag and ghosting. I'm a testing n00b, go easy on me But point out anything I'm doing wrong and I'll try again as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

who told you that your LAN party was more important than feeding us with new info on your PJ ?
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post #312 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

I think what most people forget is that HD3300 has a thing in its favor in the long run for 3D.

1) If you use DLP-link glasses, your glasses are synced to the actual image and will keep up with any ageing related changes in timing

2) If you use RF-glasses, you will have full control of the cross-talk behavior

3010 and all other 3D TV technologies that dont use either of the above are locked in to the glasses that come with the PJ/TV and offer very little control of whether you will or wil not see cross-talk (either acorss part to part variation or if this ageing related cross-0talk is indeed real or across different PJ settings). For example, there are several folks on the Panny 7000 3D PJ thread who saw cross-talk and they are out of luck as there is no way to tune it out.

Ofcourse one can alwasy spend the extra bucks to get the RF glasses for these as well....

I disagree on both counts.

1) Aging related timing changes? Do pixels get tired and slow down or something? LOL. Solid state electronics are locked into frequencies internally, and they fail rather than arbitrarily slowing down. If you're talking about the mechanical aspects of the actual display tech, either of them slowing down will lead to ghosting equally, but have you ever heard of a case of that happening? I've never heard of such at thing myself. Still, even if it is true, see #2:

2) The RF glasses work perfectly fine with the Epson. I'm using the RF glasses as well as the IR glasses that came with the projector, and honestly I think I prefer the IR so far. They match the best RF tuned settings out of the box, without any tuning at all. Further, I haven't been able to MAKE the IR glasses lose sync, so that's not really a disadvantage either. Given that both systems work with either projector just fine (you can get a 3-pin IR emitter for your optoma, I can get a monster vision kit for my epson), it's a complete wash either way IMO. (also, if there really are aging related timing changes, this means you're not 'locked in' to the problem, since RF glasses are available for either system to tune to the new timings).
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post #313 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

I think what most people forget is that HD3300 has a thing in its favor in the long run for 3D.

1) If you use DLP-link glasses, your glasses are synced to the actual image and will keep up with any ageing related changes in timing

2) If you use RF-glasses, you will have full control of the cross-talk behavior

3010 and all other 3D TV technologies that dont use either of the above are locked in to the glasses that come with the PJ/TV and offer very little control of whether you will or wil not see cross-talk (either acorss part to part variation or if this ageing related cross-0talk is indeed real or across different PJ settings). For example, there are several folks on the Panny 7000 3D PJ thread who saw cross-talk and they are out of luck as there is no way to tune it out.

Ofcourse one can alwasy spend the extra bucks to get the RF glasses for these as well....

Except nobody is reporting having syncing issues with the Epson IR glasses. Or any glasses from what I have read. So this appears to be a non-issue.

As for the Panasonic thread, the user that was reporting issues of cross-talk was using glasses (Xpand 103 I think?) that were confirmed to have issues with the projector. Folks using the 3rd generation Panasonic glasses are not reporting issues. And this is an Epson thread, so even if Panasonic users were having issues, I don't see why it would be pertinent here.

Some of you guys are just reaching with this DLP vs LCD stuff..

I have yet to see a single Espon 3010 user complain about cross-talk or syncing issues with the glasses. Two major concerns many of us had concerning the 3010.

My biggest concern with the 3010 is the lower contrast for 3D when the IRIS being closed. But it has more brightness than the Optoma 33, so it appears to be a tradeoff. For 2D, the Epson wins out in contrast. And that is important to me since 2D will still be used much more heavily than 3D.
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post #314 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk; View Post

For 2D, the Epson wins out in contrast. And that is important to me since 2D will still be used much more heavily than 3D.

I question this only as a broad, general statement. I understand the Epson is going to have better contrast in darker scenes because of the iris. Does this translate to also having better contrast when the iris is open?
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post #315 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

I question this only as a broad, general statement. I understand the Epson is going to have better contrast in darker scenes because of the iris. Does this translate to also having better contrast when the iris is open?

guitarman is the expert here but his explanation is the best I have seen....basically LCD's boast dynamic contrast (on vs off) thanks to IRIS which closes in all-dark scene...however they may have poorer ANSI contrast (bright vs dark material in same scene) and so will not be as good as DLP when IRIS is turned off. Again, Epson may be an exception to the rule...can any owner please confirm this ?
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post #316 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

I question this only as a broad, general statement. I understand the Epson is going to have better contrast in darker scenes because of the iris. Does this translate to also having better contrast when the iris is open?

Epson won't have better contrast when the Iris is open or closed. What it will have is better contrast comparing dark areas when the IRIS is small vs. bright scenes when the IRIS is wide open i.e. the On-Off contrast. Dynamic contrast of DLP, I believe is better.

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post #317 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 03:51 PM
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I know that Cine4Home tested the 5010 and found a 5500:1 native contrast. I don't know about the 3010.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
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post #318 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 05:41 PM
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Just grabbed a 3010 tonite at my best buy. Very excited and have done about 3 hours of viewing. I can't quite figure out what all the sniping is about on this thread. I know all I was wanting to do is figure out if I should go with the optoma or the epson. With that said, in a little bit of time with it I have tried several direct tv 3d shows and a few movies...I have noticed no crosstalk. If it is there..I just am not seeing it...which is good enough for me.

The picture is very bright in 3d on my 120 inch screen. In fact, if I had to guess, it is just about as bright in 3d mode as my hc3800 normally....or at least close. Will have to watch more in 2d, but I watched avatar and there is great color and depth...almost looked 3d itself.

I dont really have a bias towards dlp or lcd...in fact I have bothbut the epson seems pretty cool..and I wanted a bright 3d projector and was willing to sacrifice black levels if necessary...i should think anyone getting this would be pretty darn happy with the purchase.
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post #319 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 05:48 PM
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Also picked up a 3010 at BB, of 8 nearby stores 1 had it. Used the 10% off coupon easily found online. Unboxing tonight after children are in bed. If they'd had the 3010e I'd have bought it, but I get the feeling that unit will lag behind.
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post #320 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 06:17 PM
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Alright, I've been fighting this optoma to enable 3d mode for a few hours. Not sure what's up with it. Just got it going and did the crosstalk test gmichael2 linked.

For reference, I've included blackshark's test results from his passive polarized system (such as is used in theaters) as well.

Blackshark Passive:
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 15
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 15
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

One of the LG passives:
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 38
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 38
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Optoma pro350w:
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 65
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 62
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 3

Epson ir glasses:
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 62
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 57
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Epson with rf glasses:
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 70
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 65
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1



Ok, so the RF glasses are a touch better with crosstalk it seems. However, on every one of these, angling reduced effectiveness somewhat (for example raising your head and looking down your nose as an extreme example) - the RFs were a little more succeptible to this than the IRs as far as I could tell.



I'm going out for some dinner now, but I attached a few pics - updated pics with proper camera/glasses alignment of the DLP and of the LCD, and I honestly can't make out any ghosting in either of these. I also posted a pic of the stampede scene in the lion king, as I've heard it's supposed to be a ghosting trouble spot. (first pic is open, second pic is through left lens of IR glasses)
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post #321 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

For reference, I've included blackshark's test results from his passive polarized system (such as is used in theaters) as well.

Ok, so the RF glasses are a touch better with crosstalk it seems. However, on every one of these, angling reduced effectiveness somewhat (for example raising your head and looking down your nose as an extreme example) - the RFs were a little more succeptible to this than the IRs as far as I could tell.



I'm going out for some dinner now, but I attached a few pics - updated pics with proper camera/glasses alignment of the DLP and of the LCD, and I honestly can't make out any ghosting in either of these. I also posted a pic of the stampede scene in the lion king, as I've heard it's supposed to be a ghosting trouble spot. (first pic is open, second pic is through left lens of IR glasses)

Thanks defiance for your continued contribution with facts.....dont you think how laughable the cross-talk numbers are on that thread for many so called 3D technologies ? you can see many 3DTV's have such horrible numbers (compared to the 3010).....no wonder 3D has gotten such a bad rap !

When you get a chance please do post your lag numbers after you remove the receiver out of the equation...it would be good to nail that piece as well...it will make 3010 an allrounder with 2D, 3D, gaming !
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post #322 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 09:31 PM
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Picked up one of these tonight from Best Buy. It is really bright, but I'm used to watching an 8 year old Sony VLP HS-10 with a bulb past it's time. I almost wish I could lower the output a bit more, but it is a new bulb so in time that will happen. The 1080 p picture is so sharp , amazing. I checked out some 2d I had watched recently, looked really good. Then I popped in the Hubble 3D IMAX to get my first taste of home 3D.....

OH MY GOD!!!

When the IMAX countdown screen came on and the big blue numbers started coming out of my screen, I was sold . No crosstalk visible at all, and the shutter speed is so fast it does not bother me like it has when I looked at 2D TVs in the store. Absolutely amazing . I've always wished to be able to watch IMAX 3D at home, and this is it. This is better 3D than I've seen at a lot of commercial cinemas. Most actually. I usually notice some crosstalk in commercial cinemas , but there is none here. Totally amazing . I'm sold.
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post #323 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

When you get a chance please do post your lag numbers after you remove the receiver out of the equation...it would be good to nail that piece as well...it will make 3010 an allrounder with 2D, 3D, gaming !


Eh, looks like that may just be the Achilles' heel... Nothing I've done has yet got it under 60ms Direct connection, native resolution, all processing off still ends up 60ms delayed.

Still works great for me, just not perfect with that kind of lag.
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post #324 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

Eh, looks like that may just be the Achilles' heel... Nothing I've done has yet got it under 60ms Direct connection, native resolution, all processing off still ends up 60ms delayed.

Still works great for me, just not perfect with that kind of lag.

someone played games on 3010 and reported that they dont notice any lag...so may be this is just not a big deal
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post #325 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 10:06 PM
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How can I test out 3D features of 3010? Windows 7 PC, no BluRay in it. Don't have TV or cable, just wanted to use the 3010 to play movies off the PC. However now I'm stuck on how to feed it something so I can see the 3D effect. Google is failing me, and simple ideas like YouTube 3D looks like that's anaglyph so I get "the current input/image settings do not display in 3D". A little n00b help please?

[edit: video card is ATI 5750, hooked up by HDMI]
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post #326 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 10:17 PM
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What is your video card?

The first thing I ever did in 3d was download stereoscopic player and knights quest 576p. How to configure will differ slightly depending on your vid card though.


As for lag, I don't notice lag in some games, but the measurement is pretty much always at 60ms or so. So I guess it just comes down to what kind of games you play and how sensitive you are. I played a couple hours of killing floor tonight and didn't have any issues once i was adjusted (at first I kept over-compensating).
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post #327 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 11:17 PM
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Thanks Defiance!

Stereoscopic player set to "AMD" viewing method, and trailer for the The Eye got me the proof I wanted. One thing not mentioned explicitly in the reviews I've seen so far, is how it cranks up the noise level when the projector goes into 3D mode. Goes from a whisper to high power mode, and if you don't have audio going is definitely noticeable although probably not TOO much louder than the "silent" PC I built.

This forum has been a wellspring of info, although as a first-time projector buyer I don't feel qualified to contribute much other than "it's a KEEPER in my book".

I will make a comment on the glasses though, I wish it was clearer when they are off versus on. I worry about leaving them on accidentally, although I suppose they go to sleep on their own eventually neh?
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post #328 of 2001 Old 10-24-2011, 11:46 PM
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I agree, it's a keeper in my book too and has excited me about 3D again. Im going to start looking for great IMAX films on BRD though, because the Hollywood films I've seen so far just don't do the format justice.
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post #329 of 2001 Old 10-25-2011, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by vincentfox View Post

Also picked up a 3010 at BB, of 8 nearby stores 1 had it. Used the 10% off coupon easily found online. Unboxing tonight after children are in bed. If they'd had the 3010e I'd have bought it, but I get the feeling that unit will lag behind.

could you list the coupon code please
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post #330 of 2001 Old 10-25-2011, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

Alright, I've been fighting this optoma to enable 3d mode for a few hours. Not sure what's up with it. Just got it going and did the crosstalk test gmichael2 linked.

For reference, I've included blackshark's test results from his passive polarized system (such as is used in theaters) as well.



Ok, so the RF glasses are a touch better with crosstalk it seems. However, on every one of these, angling reduced effectiveness somewhat (for example raising your head and looking down your nose as an extreme example) - the RFs were a little more succeptible to this than the IRs as far as I could tell.



I'm going out for some dinner now, but I attached a few pics - updated pics with proper camera/glasses alignment of the DLP and of the LCD, and I honestly can't make out any ghosting in either of these. I also posted a pic of the stampede scene in the lion king, as I've heard it's supposed to be a ghosting trouble spot. (first pic is open, second pic is through left lens of IR glasses)

Thanks,

It's all starting to come together now. I am assuming that the numbers for the 5010e will be close or better than these. (I got an email from Epson today stating that the release date on the 5010e is today 10/25/11)
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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