My Epson 3010 projector just arrived! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2004 Old 10-26-2011, 11:28 AM
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didnt they say it was delayed because of bugs?
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post #362 of 2004 Old 10-26-2011, 11:31 AM
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exactly my point, and now it is not delayed and available.
but there is always more bugs, my receiver (Denon) has firmware updates, as well as PS3, and blu ray players.

My question is how do projectors get new firmware to address software bugs?
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post #363 of 2004 Old 10-26-2011, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael F. View Post

Is anyone getting a lot of noise from the auto iris? Mine sounds like a hard drive running sometimes. yuk

I'm getting a little sound from it, just like you say, sounds like a hard drive. I'm not sure if this is the loud version or the normal sound, he did say in the review of the second model it was audible but not nearly as much as the original he had received.
I notice it most when coming out of commercials when the screen goes black (which makes sense because it would be on full at that time) and there is no audio. However when watching a show or movie the sound covers it up.
Do you have it set to High Speed or Normal? I don't notice much difference in either setting.
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post #364 of 2004 Old 10-26-2011, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinwoodward View Post

exactly my point, and now it is not delayed and available.
but there is always more bugs, my receiver (Denon) has firmware updates, as well as PS3, and blu ray players.

My question is how do projectors get new firmware to address software bugs?

I think there is some confusion. The review projectors were shipped to reviewers some time back. These were not final production. Epson asked the reviewers to hold off on their reviews because they made a change for final production and shipped the revised projectors to reviewers. Art, one of the reviewers, had commented on the preproduction projector having a louder iris than the production projector. I would think that Epson is only shipping the revised quieter version. That said, Art did state that even with the revised projector there was some audible noise during silent scenes if the iris adjusts, so if you sit really close to this projector, this may be a deal breaker for people who want a silent projector.
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post #365 of 2004 Old 10-26-2011, 01:09 PM
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Is it time to start an "official 3010" thread?
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post #366 of 2004 Old 10-26-2011, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Without any reservations, the mount you need to consider is the Chief RPA 168. It's a "Epson PJ dedicated" Mount, exceedingly robust yet low profile, with multiple adjustment for all angles and a "lock down" capability that is the best in the Industry. It has a 1-1/2" Threaded opening tp accommodate a 1-1/2" ID Drop Tube that allows for Cables / 110 AC to run within it. Either Steel or PVC Tubing can be employed. Used with a Peerless AC570 Ceiling Plate, the combination is unbeatable.

So what led you to know that this RPA-168 will fit the Epson 3010?

I checked the Chief website, and their dropdown doesn't include the 3010.

So all I need is those 2 pieces and a pipe? Will it tilt enough sideways to accomodate if mounted on a sloped ceiling? I read in some specs it can only go 4 degrees in a certain direction.
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post #367 of 2004 Old 10-26-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

In selecting a screen, the combination of Color Correctness, Texture (lack of), screen Color, and the Reflectivity quotient (Gain) all should play a part in any decision. Inexpensiveness alone does not dictate a choice's worthiness. And inexpensiveness is relative to what one needs, expects, and can afford.

Many have recently stated that with recent PJ improvements, a plain white wall is approaching "good enough" status. That is far too oversimplified a statement. To be true, these things would have to be true.

1. The Wall's surface would have to be unnaturally smooth, almost perfectly flat, or made to be so.

2. The PJ would have to have the perfect balance of Brightness, uniformity of illumination, and deep "NATIVE" contrast.

3. The room itself must not distract from the performance of the Screen by itself being too reflective of light received by the Screen's own reflections.

4. Artificial & Natural Lighting would have to be held in check and thoughtfully planned for so as not to compete with / detract from image quality.

Now that's all a lot to ask of anyone who doesn't have a dedicated Theater room in mind, nor a wall that fits the needed criteria for smoothness and color.

A few budget Mfg Screens can fill that Bill, but they all pretty much are fixed Screens, and still represent an investment considerably more expensive than most DIY Screens.

Brook no mistake, the better overall a PJ is designed, the easier it is to accommodate "normal" circumstances.

But using a Wall is not normal in and of itself. Neither is expecting deep, saturated Colors and obsidian-level Blacks in rooms with excessive lighting of highly reflective surfaces.

Projector positioning adds another ingredient to the stew that is of our own making. Given all the varied selections available, a general lack of cooking skills, and all too often the need to make necessary compromises, it's no stretch to say that many do not always get the palatable end results they had hoped for.

Now along comes 3D, with a raft of new challenges to address. Most PJ Mfg are realizing that brightness is an essential key, but the unfortunate truth is that along with brightness comes a reduction in Native & Dynamic Contrast....both who are essential in determining the depth and saturation of any image under any viewing conditions or environment.

Now that is / has been changing. 4 years ago I would have done unmentionable things to have at my disposal an affordable 1080p unit with a true 5K:1 Native Contrast, 2400 lumens, Lens Shift, CMS and such. Now they are here, but all that is really evident is that Mfg Screen technology is lagging behind potential image quality. Certainly there are exceptions, options that run counter to that statement, but they all cost exceptionally more than what many "non-enthusiasts" can justify spending. When a Screen costs as much or more than a Projector....even 1/2 as much....it's a plain example of a regression back to the year 2000, when many expected the Screen to be the deciding factor....not the Projector.

Now anyone who knows what I'm all about knows where this is leading.
I have advocated DIY Screen making since 2001, when I realized that Mfg Screens I was willing to pay for (ie: afford) just were themselves inadequate and actually detrimental to image quality. It was a true revelation to see how good a smoothed, white wall could be under good conditions. And the cost difference? Up to 20x less expensive. No "Gray" areas to that thinking.

DIY has kept apace of Projector Technology because DIY was...and always will be perched on the "cutting edge" in it's application of known PJ values and viewing circumstances. It cannot always be a simple as rolling on a "out of the can" white or gray paint onto an existing wall, but advancements in PJ design and performance has made that more possible than it was in 2001, lemmie tell ya that!

But the more advanced DIY Screens can...and do take FP imaging potential to higher levels...and do so at ridiculously lower cost than any high performance Mfg screen.




The above pretty much sums it up. With 3D, the amount of gain a surface has is, and will remain among the most important of considerations. It's plainly obvious that with the rise in popularity of 3D, screen sizes have taken a nose-dive. While PJ Mfg are addressing the issue with higher lumen output, they are also accepting losses in the gains made over the last 2 years in PJ Contrast specifications. PJs that have better balances of brightness and contrast cost noticeably more, yet even they have precipitous drops in brightness when 3D is employed.

Screen Mfg who are "upping Gain" are doing so at the cost of "Screen Transparency" and they are charging out the kazoo for the privileged of dealing with the caveats such screen designs bring to the viewing equation. And...if their are no caveats to deal with....one can and must expect to pay even higher prices. Such is the way of things, unfortunately.

So we all are left to either accepting the imbalances we are dealt with and adjusting our plans and expectations accordingly, or spending excessively for Screens that accommodate our needs and desires.

.........or (here it comes) one can explore the realm of high performance DIY Screen making, if one has the work ethic (not always all that much), the need for something really good that is also really affordable (always the case with DIY screens) and who feels like they can justify the time and effort. (problematical for some until they actually give it a shot)

I and others like me exist on the DIY Screen forum to cater to the needs of those of you who are caught between the Rock (3D PJs) and Hard Place (Screen choices) of Front projection) There are very viable and inexpensive choices available, ones that are made to order for the newer PJs. I dare say they have been waiting for the PJs to catch up actually.

For those to whom DIY is not possible, or even downright repugnant, there are Mfg Screen solutions. But there are no giveaways as far as what is needed for acheiving decent all around 3D performance.

Right on man, this is exactly what I was wondering. Sounds like i'm the perfect candidate for a DIY screen(expects great results but doesn't want to spend the money) Great comments, and now I'm inspired to pick through the old DIY screen forum to see what I'd build, I think for a first time projector, I'm sure I'll be amazed no mater how much light reflection, or potential contrast i give up by going DIY over an expensive Mfg screen! I just wanted to know if 3D would still jump off the screen without a Stewart Firehawk or something similar (on my wish list). Sounds like it'll still be great as long as I'm pretty handy, which I think I am... As for "normal"? Who wants that?
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post #368 of 2004 Old 10-26-2011, 09:31 PM
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Ah, I looked up this "Peerless AC570" mounting plate. Found it as product ACC570, MississippiMan has dropped a C.

Anyhow looks like it's not suitable for either of my hanging points.

Location #1: beam, but this disk is nearly 8" across whereas the rafter is only 3.5"
Looking around most Chief plates are 4" wide, too wide for beam at location #1.

Location #2: ceiling with a gentle slope to it. It would just look weird with the pipe coming down at an angle. I'd need something with some sort of swivel joint so it could hang straight down.
What I need is a cathedral ceiling mount, so looks like Chief CMA395W should work.
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post #369 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 08:53 AM
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I get the Auto Iris noise in High speed and normal. I shut it off when using the projector with my computer or else it sounds horrible while web browsing.

Does anyone know how to switch the sound in on the projector to the Left & Right phono plugs while feeding the video from my computers DVI out into the HDMI input? It seems to be looking for sound on the HDMI and will not let me select a different source for the sound.

It works for the analog monitor input but the picture quality is worse than the digital HDMI input.

Thanks,


Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzul View Post

I'm getting a little sound from it, just like you say, sounds like a hard drive. I'm not sure if this is the loud version or the normal sound, he did say in the review of the second model it was audible but not nearly as much as the original he had received.
I notice it most when coming out of commercials when the screen goes black (which makes sense because it would be on full at that time) and there is no audio. However when watching a show or movie the sound covers it up.
Do you have it set to High Speed or Normal? I don't notice much difference in either setting.

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post #370 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 11:08 AM
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Well i took delivery of my Epson tw6000 today here in the uk, unfortunately i wont get a chance to set it up until tomorrow as my tv is going on a wall bracket and my PJ screen needs to be lowered and attatched to some mounts so it will clear the tv.
Does anybody know what screws are needed to mount the tw6000 to a vogels epw 6565 wall bracket
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post #371 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 11:55 AM
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Hey guys, sorry for the delay in update. I had surgery on my nose Monday (septoplasty, to be able to breathe better). Not supposed to be doing much of anything, so I had to get somebody to help setup my new 3100 enough to test it a little bit.

Right off the bat... THIS THING IS SO BRIGHT. It's in my family room with a ton of ambient light but good gracious it holds its own. Very impressed.

INPUT LAG: I know for many of you like me this is a biggie. So... yes it's there. But not as bad as I anticipated. It certainly does not feel like 60ms. Just real quick I tested out Battlefield 3 multiplayer, Geometry Wars, and The Impossible game. 3 games where you need good reflexes/timing to stay alive. Geometry Wars I did quite well on, lag was not bad. Not quite as good as my LCD tv, but not distracting either. Battlefield isn't really a good test probably, since it's a sluggish game anyways with a terrible framerate. I'll probably pop in MW2 here in a second and see what kind of speed I'm feeling. I'll let you know the results. But, from my subjective standpoint, the lag is there, but not distracting, and not as bad as many TVs. I remember trying to play Wii on a buddy's plasma TV. It was almost impossible when we played mario on the ice levels because by the time you tried to react to the sliding, you were already sliding too much the other way. This is far, far from that kind of lag.

Again, will post more as time goes on.
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post #372 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 01:40 PM
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I also picked up a 3010 last night. I am finishing my basement build so it will be a good month or so before I have it mounted, but I will project some Blu-Ray movies on the wall. Which also just reminded me that I still don't have a Blu-Ray player yet.
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post #373 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 02:41 PM
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3010 owners....can you please post some pictures similar to the ones posted at the HD3300 thread ? If its too much of a hassle, could you atleast cmment on how the quality looks to your eyes compared to the ones shown here

eg: 5thelement

others
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post #374 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

3010 owners....can you please post some pictures similar to the ones posted at the HD3300 thread ? If its too much of a hassle, could you atleast cmment on how the quality looks to your eyes compared to the ones shown here

eg: 5thelement

others

What are you hoping to see? My concern is that a picture of a projector image is just so vastly different than the image itself, especially depending on the camera/settings it's taken with. White balance, ISO, picture style, lens qualities, etc etc. You're not going to see what it look likes. The only way it could be helpful is if somebody took the exact same image with the exact same settings for multiple projectors to show differences. Even then there are still issues.

Anyways, what is it that you are trying to gather from the images? Impression of sharpness? Contrast? Color?
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post #375 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian.c View Post

What are you hoping to see? My concern is that a picture of a projector image is just so vastly different than the image itself, especially depending on the camera/settings it's taken with. White balance, ISO, picture style, lens qualities, etc etc. You're not going to see what it look likes. The only way it could be helpful is if somebody took the exact same image with the exact same settings for multiple projectors to show differences. Even then there are still issues.

Anyways, what is it that you are trying to gather from the images? Impression of sharpness? Contrast? Color?

agree its hard to convey what it looks like in person other than seeing it yourself....but too eager to see what it may look like and may be even hear your impressions on how it looks to you in all the above aspects...for example do you notoce the contrast drop between 2D to 3D mode ?
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post #376 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

3010 owners....can you please post some pictures similar to the ones posted at the HD3300 thread ? If its too much of a hassle, could you atleast cmment on how the quality looks to your eyes compared to the ones shown here

eg: 5thelement

others

Art has pictures of the 3100 vs 33 vs a bunch of other 2D projectors in his 3010 review. I would start there since the pictures are all taken using the same scene on the same camera, etc.
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post #377 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Art has pictures of the 3100 vs 33 vs a bunch of other 2D projectors in his 3010 review. I would start there since the pictures are all taken using the same scene on the same camera, etc.

already looked at them...they are very poor quality
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post #378 of 2004 Old 10-27-2011, 06:13 PM
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I sent a query to Chief about whether an RPA-168 mount would fit, their reply:


Good Afternoon,

Our RPA-U would fit your Epson projector. At this time, we do not have any model specific part numbers.

Kind Regards,
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post #379 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 09:28 AM
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Some more thoughts:

I watched Captain America on the 3010 last night. It looked really good, but I wasn't blown away. 3d looked good, but maybe it just wasn't quite as arresting as I hoped it would be.

Played some more Battlefield 3 on it. Starting to think maybe I won't be able to get used to the lag. It's just enough so that you sometimes have to struggle to get your gun on target. A lot of times I find myself over-correcting my aim, a common problem with lag because once you think you've aimed correctly and stop moving one way, it of course moves a little beyond because of the lag. I think this is just a little too annoying for me.

I really wanted to love everything about the 3010. I've been waiting more than a year for the right projector to come along and I thought this was it. It's got some strengths, and I know that at 1599 it won't be perfect, but I'm not sure if I want to deal with the weaknesses.

More thoughts as I continue to play with it.
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post #380 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian.c View Post

Some more thoughts:

I watched Captain America on the 3010 last night. It looked really good, but I wasn't blown away. 3d looked good, but maybe it just wasn't quite as arresting as I hoped it would be.

Played some more Battlefield 3 on it. Starting to think maybe I won't be able to get used to the lag. It's just enough so that you sometimes have to struggle to get your gun on target. A lot of times I find myself over-correcting my aim, a common problem with lag because once you think you've aimed correctly and stop moving one way, it of course moves a little beyond because of the lag. I think this is just a little too annoying for me.

I really wanted to love everything about the 3010. I've been waiting more than a year for the right projector to come along and I thought this was it. It's got some strengths, and I know that at 1599 it won't be perfect, but I'm not sure if I want to deal with the weaknesses.

More thoughts as I continue to play with it.

does the lag you describe include sound issues from say a receiver?

in other words would there be lip sync issues with lag introduced by the projector? (during movie playback)

can you describe for this newbie how this lag is effecting game play or other viewing?

thanks.
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post #381 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 10:35 AM
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How is the motion blur on the 3010? How does it compare to other models?

My Maelstrom-18" EGG build.
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post #382 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian.c View Post

Some more thoughts:

I watched Captain America on the 3010 last night. It looked really good, but I wasn't blown away. 3d looked good, but maybe it just wasn't quite as arresting as I hoped it would be.

Played some more Battlefield 3 on it. Starting to think maybe I won't be able to get used to the lag. It's just enough so that you sometimes have to struggle to get your gun on target. A lot of times I find myself over-correcting my aim, a common problem with lag because once you think you've aimed correctly and stop moving one way, it of course moves a little beyond because of the lag. I think this is just a little too annoying for me.

I really wanted to love everything about the 3010. I've been waiting more than a year for the right projector to come along and I thought this was it. It's got some strengths, and I know that at 1599 it won't be perfect, but I'm not sure if I want to deal with the weaknesses.

More thoughts as I continue to play with it.

I think to really be blown away by the 3D you should try watching a film that was created using IMAX 3D cameras. I bought Hubble 3D and Ultimate Wave Tahiti 3D. Both of those films have excellent and natural looking 3D that both pops out and recesses into the screen. If I were to pick one, I'd go with the Tahiti film first. It is not too expensive and has a nice mix of ocean scenery , underwater scenes with fish swimming out of the screen toward you , surfing footage with water droplets flying around and really sharp and well done computer animation describing how waves and volcanic islands are formed .

The problem with most commercial 3D live action features are that they are 2D converted to 3D and even if well done, can't match the true 3D effect obtained by filming with a two lens 3D camera. IMAX makes it even better because it is filmed using large format film , so it is exceptionally sharp.

http://www.ultimatewavetahiti.com/
http://www.imax.com/mobile/movies/hubble-3d/


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post #383 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansell View Post

I think to really be blown away by the 3D you should try watching a film that was created using IMAX 3D cameras. I bought Hubble 3D and Ultimate Wave Tahiti 3D. Both of those films have excellent and natural looking 3D that both pops out and recesses into the screen. If I were to pick one, I'd go with the Tahiti film first. It is not too expensive and has a nice mix of ocean scenery , underwater scenes with fish swimming out of the screen toward you , surfing footage with water droplets flying around and really sharp and well done computer animation describing how waves and volcanic islands are formed .

The problem with most commercial 3D live action features are that they are 2D converted to 3D and even if well done, can't match the true 3D effect obtained by filming with a two lens 3D camera. IMAX makes it even better because it is filmed using large format film , so it is exceptionally sharp.

http://www.ultimatewavetahiti.com/
http://www.imax.com/mobile/movies/hubble-3d/

Totally agree. I read several reviews about the Captain America Blu-Ray release and the opinions are pretty clear that this is not a good 3D transfer. So you can't really blame the PJ.
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post #384 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dfan View Post

already looked at them...they are very poor quality

But the point is that they are the same scenes using the same screen, lighting, camera, etc. So from that perspective I find them somewhat useful. I just don't trust too many user taken pictures that are posted online. You really need to see the projector for yourself before you judge.
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post #385 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinwoodward View Post

does the lag you describe include sound issues from say a receiver?

in other words would there be lip sync issues with lag introduced by the projector? (during movie playback)

can you describe for this newbie how this lag is effecting game play or other viewing?

thanks.

My AVR (Denon 1911) has lag in the audio, not sure of every model of AVR. It usually allows you to sync the video with the audio, especially if you put the video through the AVR. Movie watching is not an issue with lag since you don't need it to respond to you at all. The video could be playing 10 seconds late, but as long as the audio is also, it won't matter.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #386 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ian.c View Post

Played some more Battlefield 3 on it. Starting to think maybe I won't be able to get used to the lag. It's just enough so that you sometimes have to struggle to get your gun on target. A lot of times I find myself over-correcting my aim, a common problem with lag because once you think you've aimed correctly and stop moving one way, it of course moves a little beyond because of the lag. I think this is just a little too annoying for me.

You might want to look at the Acer H9500BD. It's $1700 (Newegg) with DVI input (3D 1080p 60Hz per eye possible?) and low lag (~10ms). This is still to be confirmed by users, but should be (either way) in the next day or so.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=acer+h9500bd
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post #387 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 07:15 PM
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post #388 of 2004 Old 10-28-2011, 07:37 PM
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My question is how do projectors get new firmware to address software bugs?

You probably will download the firmware onto a USB memory stick and plug it into the projector then turn it on. Thats how most things get firmware updates that aren't plugged into the internet.
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post #389 of 2004 Old 10-29-2011, 12:21 AM
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Finally decided on these ceiling mount parts:

Chief RPA-U
Chief CMA395W

Extension pipe still TBD, perhaps can use threaded PVC pipe?
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post #390 of 2004 Old 10-29-2011, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian.c View Post

Played some more Battlefield 3 on it. Starting to think maybe I won't be able to get used to the lag. It's just enough so that you sometimes have to struggle to get your gun on target.

Anyone know if the hd33 has less lag? GT750 is good but only 3x color wheel so rainbow city for some.

Edit: are you playing bf3 on pc or psx, xbox?
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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