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Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP > My Epson 3010 projector just arrived!
falafala's Avatar falafala 06:07 PM 02-20-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankhan View Post

Just for your info........3D crosstalk/ghosting shall never be eliminated from 3D projectors.............

Is that true???

http://www.highdefforum.com/3dtv-har...ans-terms.html

Thats full if BS....DLP 3d has ZERO cross talk....even 3010 has Zero cross talk with monster glasses

mankhan's Avatar mankhan 01:51 AM 02-21-2012
What about using 3010 with Epson glasses??? There is crosstalk, right?? Is it because it is relatively cheap projector in 3D, what about Optoma HD33, it is DLP and has no crosstalk and is cheaper then 3010 then why to buy 3010. What is the difference and what is the reason that customer should prefer 3010 over HD33.
latexii's Avatar latexii 05:27 AM 02-21-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankhan View Post

What about using 3010 with Epson glasses??? There is crosstalk, right?? Is it because it is relatively cheap projector in 3D, what about Optoma HD33, it is DLP and has no crosstalk and is cheaper then 3010 then why to buy 3010. What is the difference and what is the reason that customer should prefer 3010 over HD33.

LCD 3010 vs DLP 33 ... also source material counts what comes to ghosting in 3010

dlp zoom sucks, that's why i bought 3010 instead optoma hd 33 fits better for my purpose.
xhonzi's Avatar xhonzi 10:38 AM 02-21-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

Thats full if BS....DLP 3d has ZERO cross talk....even 3010 has Zero cross talk with monster glasses

There's cross talk and then there's cross talk.

They will also never make a projector (of any kind) that has perfect blacks. That's just the way it is.

Part of the problem with cross talk is not the display, but the glasses. There isn't an LCD screen in existance that can block out 100% of a bright light. It might be able to block out enough to deliver low enough light that it doesn't bother you, or is below your level of perception. But it's not blocking out all of it. Again, since this flaw is in the (shutter) glasses, it doesn't matter if it's LCD, DLP, or film.

Polarized is similar. If you shine an intense light at a pair of linearly polarized lenses offset at 90 degrees (theoretically blocking all light) you might be surprised at how much still gets through. That, and everything that happens to a polarized lightwave tends to depolarize it at least a little bit (especially the "reflecting off of a screen" bit)... you're going to have cross talk.

The goal is not to eliminate it totally, because that isn't possible... just to get it below the level of detection/give a crap.
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 02:03 AM 02-22-2012
Guys, I just got a copy of Lichtmond 3D Blu-ray and you wont believe, it looks fantastic musical journey in 7.1 DTS-HD with amazing 3D imaginary animated concepts. I highly recommend this to everyone. Here is the link:
http://www.lichtmond.com/index_en.php
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 07:57 AM 02-22-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post

There's cross talk and then there's cross talk.

They will also never make a projector (of any kind) that has perfect blacks. That's just the way it is.

Part of the problem with cross talk is not the display, but the glasses. There isn't an LCD screen in existance that can block out 100% of a bright light. It might be able to block out enough to deliver low enough light that it doesn't bother you, or is below your level of perception. But it's not blocking out all of it. Again, since this flaw is in the (shutter) glasses, it doesn't matter if it's LCD, DLP, or film.

Polarized is similar. If you shine an intense light at a pair of linearly polarized lenses offset at 90 degrees (theoretically blocking all light) you might be surprised at how much still gets through. That, and everything that happens to a polarized lightwave tends to depolarize it at least a little bit (especially the "reflecting off of a screen" bit)... you're going to have cross talk.

The goal is not to eliminate it totally, because that isn't possible... just to get it below the level of detection/give a crap.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. So how can we achieve the goal that least crosstalk appears to our eyes, like any settings in PJ or anything else? But still as per my experience, not every movie shows crosstalk. AVATAR and FD 5 do not exhibit any crosstalk, which means that if 3D BD is made good it shall deliver good and vice versa.
xhonzi's Avatar xhonzi 08:54 AM 02-22-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankhan View Post

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. So how can we achieve the goal that least crosstalk appears to our eyes, like any settings in PJ or anything else? But still as per my experience, not every movie shows crosstalk. AVATAR and FD 5 do not exhibit any crosstalk, which means that if 3D BD is made good it shall deliver good and vice versa.

Contrast is a big deal, as is separation. Two things you can't really control. If one eye is supposed to see the blackest black and the other eye the whitest white, then you'll see some crosstalk. Especially when you look through the LCD shutter glasses at low intersecting angles. A lot of movies don't show this since the comparative contrast is so low.

The other thing movies do is have the thing you're looking at be at the neutral plane that the screen is on. That way there is no cross talk, because both eyes are seeing the same thing. If there is a little crosstalk on an out of focus background element, you won't notice it so much.

As far as what you can do at home, I'm not an expert... but you can sit further back, which narrow the angles coming into the glasses... you can reduce brightness. And Falafala has reported that the Monster glasses can be tuned to have less crosstalk by playing with the timing. In theory, adjusting the timing would improve the crosstalk on any pair of LCD shutter glasses... but sadly the emitter on the 3010 doesn't allow for this kind of tuning. It would be nice if Epson would release a firmware update that allowed it. Perhaps it's buried in an advanced menu somewhere. The tuning is related to how long each shutter is open.
falafala's Avatar falafala 02:37 PM 02-22-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post

Contrast is a big deal, as is separation. Two things you can't really control. If one eye is supposed to see the blackest black and the other eye the whitest white, then you'll see some crosstalk. Especially when you look through the LCD shutter glasses at low intersecting angles. A lot of movies don't show this since the comparative contrast is so low.

The other thing movies do is have the thing you're looking at be at the neutral plane that the screen is on. That way there is no cross talk, because both eyes are seeing the same thing. If there is a little crosstalk on an out of focus background element, you won't notice it so much.

As far as what you can do at home, I'm not an expert... but you can sit further back, which narrow the angles coming into the glasses... you can reduce brightness. And Falafala has reported that the Monster glasses can be tuned to have less crosstalk by playing with the timing. In theory, adjusting the timing would improve the crosstalk on any pair of LCD shutter glasses... but sadly the emitter on the 3010 doesn't allow for this kind of tuning. It would be nice if Epson would release a firmware update that allowed it. Perhaps it's buried in an advanced menu somewhere. The tuning is related to how long each shutter is open.

the following will go down in history as greatest blunders committed by 3D industry (by not implementing them on their 1st generation offerings) that could lead to it demise

1) Give users ability to adjust cross talk from day one like Monstor does

2) Give the users ability to switch their glasses to 2D mode (similar to Simulview)
webblogger4's Avatar webblogger4 10:56 AM 02-23-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

the following will go down in history as greatest blunders committed by 3D industry (by not implementing them on their 1st generation offerings) that could lead to it demise

1) Give users ability to adjust cross talk from day one like Monstor does

2) Give the users ability to switch their glasses to 2D mode (similar to Simulview)

The Panasonic 3rd gen glasses allow you to switch to 2D mode...
old corps's Avatar old corps 07:26 PM 02-23-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by webblogger4 View Post

The Panasonic 3rd gen glasses allow you to switch to 2D mode...

+1

Ed
falafala's Avatar falafala 08:58 PM 02-23-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by webblogger4 View Post

The Panasonic 3rd gen glasses allow you to switch to 2D mode...

I know

What I am saying is they should have standardized these damn glasses to make it easier for consumer
vincentfox's Avatar vincentfox 10:20 PM 02-23-2012
This thread hasn't had much technical stuff lately. Epson has published the serial command set and WOW there's a lot in there. The Excel sheet is long.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/s...odoid=63091961
xhonzi's Avatar xhonzi 10:55 AM 02-24-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfox View Post

This thread hasn't had much technical stuff lately. Epson has published the serial command set and WOW there's a lot in there. The Excel sheet is long.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/s...odoid=63091961

Dang, was hoping for some Shutter Glasses tuning options.
xhonzi's Avatar xhonzi 11:01 AM 02-24-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post

Dang, was hoping for some Shutter Glasses tuning options.

And maybe an option that turns off lag.
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 02:02 AM 02-25-2012
While watching 3D or when the 3D display is on, press menu and the menu shall appear. I am noticing that there is crosstalk in my 3D menu itself. Is it same with you guys or it is normal to have such light crosstalk. If it is only with me which means i have issues with my unit and should go to service center, right?
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 09:35 AM 02-25-2012
one question, I have noticed that by using Epson glasses the brightness of picture cuts down almost to half. Does that also happen with for example Panasonic 3rd generation or Sony playstation 3D glasses?
wazzul's Avatar wazzul 01:35 PM 02-25-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankhan View Post

one question, I have noticed that by using Epson glasses the brightness of picture cuts down almost to half. Does that also happen with for example Panasonic 3rd generation or Sony playstation 3D glasses?

Sony glasses are definitely a little darker. If you're in a room with ambient light I'm not sure they're they best option. But on the flip side if you're in a light controlled environment, I favor the PS3 glasses over the Epsons.
All 3D glasses are going to darken the picture a little just by nature of the technology. No way around that, but the Epson light cannon is probably your best projector to provide extra lumens in 3D mode.
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 03:59 PM 02-25-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzul View Post

All 3D glasses are going to darken the picture a little just by nature

That is so correct but but with my Epson i feel much more then "a little just by nature". Actually I watched my friend's SAMSUNG LED TV with 3D and i just noticed that by wearing its glasses i just felt a maximum of 10% reduction in overall brightness but with 3010 and with Epson glasses i am feeling 40-50% reduction. Is there any thing wrong with my case?
charlievoviii's Avatar charlievoviii 03:15 AM 02-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

The lag is there in 1080p 3D...

We played some Crysis 2 in 3D with my cousins SLi'd 580 pc and while the 3D looked great the lag is there. It's probably not enough to bother most people, especially those that only play games that are not First Person Shooters. The lag is not horrible but it is easily detected if you test it (quick flick of the controller and watch the screen for the delay).

Also the 3010 is not 100% with Nvidia 3D Vision, we had to use the faked EDID monitor inf to get it going. It worked fine with the PS3 (did not test the 360, sorry).

* Nvidia 3D vision would not run at 1080p 60Hz on the 3010, but would run at 1080p 59Hz for some reason.

Jason


funny, cause I didnt have do the fake EDID. I just plug in my Epson 5010 and the Stereoscopic option check enable and it works. lol
fundugy's Avatar fundugy 06:29 AM 02-28-2012
So after 3 weeks of toying with 3010, it has gone back to the retailer. Noticed more quality issues and the dreadful "error in auto-iris". Can't believe Epson dropped the ball on quality on the new projectors. Really liked all the features, but now debating to get the 8350 to replace it. Friends have 8350 and swear by its black levels and great picture quality for the price.
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 10:35 AM 02-29-2012
Can anyone please share its custom settings for 3010 for 3D view on 135" screen from a distance of 15 feet.
mflanagan's Avatar mflanagan 04:18 PM 03-02-2012
I'm Planning on Replacing my Epson 8350 with the 3010. I really want to get into 3D but don't want to skimp on 2D performance in the same breath. So that said, will I be sacrificing anything by going with the 3010 from the 8350?

* Is it possible for Epson to fix the Lag Issues on the 3010 with a firmware update?
* Is the Contrast ratio noticeable with the 3010 vs 8350 on a 130" Screen?

* Any Issuse running 3D on an ATI 5700 based HTPC with PowerDVD 11 or TotalMedia Theater 5?

Just wondering if this is a dumb move or not?

Thanks!
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 12:08 AM 03-03-2012
Does Epson post firmwares on their website so that customer can update their unit's firmware by themselves or one must have to send unit to service center. Please advise. When should we expect that a new firmware for 3010 shall be posted?
WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD 12:19 AM 03-03-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprocket360 View Post

I just received my Epson 3010

so................what do you think of your Epson 3010 unit at this point? Very happy with it?
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 12:28 AM 03-03-2012
If you are into 3D then 3010 is definitely a best choice money vise. Just have a demo of 3010 and 5010 side by side and then make your final choice. I have found 3010 is an excellent choice but the only issue perhaps crosstalk and iris noise as some are complaining on this. Rest is all great. 8350 has contrast ratio of 50000:1 and 3010 has 40000:1 so in reality it is not much noticeable to human eyes.
vincentfox's Avatar vincentfox 01:18 AM 03-03-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mflanagan View Post

* Is it possible for Epson to fix the Lag Issues on the 3010 with a firmware update?

I don't think anyone on this forum has inside knowledge. My personal opinion is that there were design choices made, and this projector fit those. Perhaps the panels used to generate the image just take 80 ms to do that job, but they fill the bill on every other front for cost & image etc well some executive might pick them and then you're stuck. You can't just "fix" that kind of choice later with mucking around in the firmware. Responses to emails to the company on this topic haven't given reason to think there's any magic lag reduction in the pipe.

Personally I'm happy with my 3010, and if at some point I decide I need a projector with 5 ms lag to play FPS games on, well I'll go buy one that promises that.
WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD 09:21 PM 03-03-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankhan View Post

If you are into 3D then 3010 is definitely a best choice money vise. Just have a demo of 3010 and 5010 side by side and then make your final choice. I have found 3010 is an excellent choice but the only issue perhaps crosstalk and iris noise as some are complaining on this. Rest is all great. 8350 has contrast ratio of 50000:1 and 3010 has 40000:1 so in reality it is not much noticeable to human eyes.

thaks for your input! Yeah, at this point I want to have 3D capability, since this format seems to be only getting more popular. I have a 2nd living room system using a Denon AVR-2112CI/Oppo BDP-93/Samsung UN40D6420 LED Smart TV (3D capable), I'm still waiting to try 3D for the first time this week (Hugo).
xhonzi's Avatar xhonzi 02:34 PM 03-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

the following will go down in history as greatest blunders committed by 3D industry (by not implementing them on their 1st generation offerings) that could lead to it demise

1) Give users ability to adjust cross talk from day one like Monstor does

2) Give the users ability to switch their glasses to 2D mode (similar to Simulview)

Someone can correct me if they know better, but does the "3D Brightness" control on the 3010 actually affect the shut period on the glasses? It seems to me that it does. Higher brightness=glasses are open more=more crosstalk. Less brightness=glasses are shut more=less crosstalk.

Or is it actually affecting how much the brightness is boosted by the PJ in 3D mode?
falafala's Avatar falafala 06:23 PM 03-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post

Someone can correct me if they know better, but does the "3D Brightness" control on the 3010 actually affect the shut period on the glasses? It seems to me that it does. Higher brightness=glasses are open more=more crosstalk. Less brightness=glasses are shut more=less crosstalk.

Or is it actually affecting how much the brightness is boosted by the PJ in 3D mode?

yes that's correct...it trades off brightness with cross talk....i see Medium is a good balance with Epson glasses...with Monster vision, this setting does not matter as you can tune them independent of this setting and often with vastly superior results than this coarse control offers
mankhan's Avatar mankhan 01:19 AM 03-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post

Someone can correct me if they know better, but does the "3D Brightness" control on the 3010 actually affect the shut period on the glasses? It seems to me that it does. Higher brightness=glasses are open more=more crosstalk. Less brightness=glasses are shut more=less crosstalk.

Or is it actually affecting how much the brightness is boosted by the PJ in 3D mode?

You are very very right. High brightness = more brightness but more crosstalk as well. But this is brightness as increased by projector or these are the glasses which increase the brightness. it same with 5010/6010?
Tags: Epson , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 3010e Full Hd 1080p 2d And 3d Home Theater Projector With Integrated Spe , Projectors
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