The Official Acer H9500BD Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

My understanding is that the "blurring" via HDMI would happen on all HDMI sources. But what you have to keep in mind is that you are most likely not going to notice this in real life unless you are sitting uber close to your screen (and in that case you may have bigger issues). Too be clear, the 9500 is sharper than the 3010, but could be even sharper it appears.

Well maybe there is something in the video processing or the unit itself from a design standpoint. Seems kfor observed this a month ago and I thought he may have had a faulty unit. Maybe not so much anymore.

Let me expand on my thoughts for a moment. If it is absolutely sharp using the analog processor it must be in the HDMI circuit and ought to be able to be corrected. That may be better news than such things as faulty/cheap lens or overall design flaw but the question remains as to what the culprit is.

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Originally Posted by kfor View Post

I tried to tweak the zoom . lens shift , focus , everything but I still cannot get the sharpness of my H7531D . Don't get me wrong , even the little text is clearly readable , but comparing to my previous projector this one is less sharper.I just removed my border tape and found that the 3D is more impressive without it.It's like you have no limit on the window and the pop up effect is more effective

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post #902 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 04:32 PM
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Just finished watching the rest of 3D POTC On Stranger Tides that I started last night on the 9500. I was going to look for blurred images but got so sucked into the movie I forgot about it. It looked super sharp and solid to me again. I did bump up the saturation to 57 and Degamma to 1, this setting looks best to me on the 3D movies I have watched so far on the Acer 9500 including Thor, Drive Angry, Capatain America, and POTC Stranger Tides. I have not experienced any eye strain or nausea some others have talked about (other PJ), don't see any flicker, rainbows, or ghosting. I don't think 3D is a gimmick at all rather it gives so much more depth to the movie and takes you in to the experience, the pop outs are little gimmicky, I did duck for cover though when the shield comes flying at you in Captain America, wasn't expecting that. And I did duck once in POTC Stranger Tides, but mostly its the depth that I'm enjoying. I think the Acer 9500 does a fine job with BR 3D, really enjoying it. Shadow detail in the dark scenes of POTC was great I thought, much better than my Epson 8100 which can look purple in these dark scenes. And the bright scenes look spectacular. Have not watched a 2D movie on the 9500 since I started watching 3D.
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post #903 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdfrost View Post

Yes. I don't believe it to be a pixel mapping problem as such but an image processing issue. On HDMI each pixel in the source is represented uniquely on the display, however the color value of that pixel is not what the source sends. On VGA each pixel is unique and is also the correct color value.



Yes. You won't get strange moire problems, at a first it will look just fine, but upon closer inspection you'll see the colors are wrong.


I can confirm the same problem happens with an XBOX 360.


I can't confirm this, but I expect it to be the case.


The only way I can really decribe the problem is that there appears to be some kind of softening happening on the whole image. It's not too obvious looking at photos or watching video, but with text and games that are supposed to have clean edges it's a right mess.
If you play with the 'sharpness' setting you'll notice the problem more as the setting gets lower, when you go above around 12 it goes the other way, individual pixels are still smudged but it then applies sharpening to the image by changin the colours. So a black line on a white background blurs to grey, then goes to white, and the white background becomes a light grey.

Something that's gone quiet on this thread for a while; has anyone else encountered the severe lag in 3D mode? Not a problem for the movie watchers out there but it's causing me real problems with gaming and standard Windows use.



I share exactly the same findings with you.

Tried connecting a Phillips 9k series bluray player direct to projector and true enough sharpness at 13 (max setting w/o introducing too much undesirable artifacts) give it a "smooth" look on the subtitles, not as sharp compared to a vga connection using same pc, software, disc.

Have tried settings on nvidia graphics n projector to turn off scaling/ overscan etc, but to no avail..

Anyone knows after decrypting the bluray using makemkv software, 3D can be played on VGA w/o need for hdmi?

Many thanks!
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post #904 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engkiat View Post


I share exactly the same findings with you.

Tried connecting a Phillips 9k series bluray player direct to projector and true enough sharpness at 13 (max setting w/o introducing too much undesirable artifacts) give it a "smooth" look on the subtitles, not as sharp compared to a vga connection using same pc, software, disc.

Have tried settings on nvidia graphics n projector to turn off scaling/ overscan etc, but to no avail..

Anyone knows after decrypting the bluray using makemkv software, 3D can be played on VGA w/o need for hdmi?

Many thanks!

Is this with acumotion on or off? Did you try the different settings like standard or presentation?

Also what about image detail? Could you see any difference there ? You mention subtitles. Maybe this only affects text, like a font smoothing thing.
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post #905 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post

Just finished watching the rest of 3D POTC On Stranger Tides that I started last night on the 9500. I was going to look for blurred images but got so sucked into the movie I forgot about it. It looked super sharp and solid to me again. I did bump up the saturation to 57 and Degamma to 1, this setting looks best to me on the 3D movies I have watched so far on the Acer 9500 including Thor, Drive Angry, Capatain America, and POTC Stranger Tides. I have not experienced any eye strain or nausea some others have talked about (other PJ), don't see any flicker, rainbows, or ghosting. I don't think 3D is a gimmick at all rather it gives so much more depth to the movie and takes you in to the experience, the pop outs are little gimmicky, I did duck for cover though when the shield comes flying at you in Captain America, wasn't expecting that. And I did duck once in POTC Stranger Tides, but mostly its the depth that I'm enjoying. I think the Acer 9500 does a fine job with BR 3D, really enjoying it. Shadow detail in the dark scenes of POTC was great I thought, much better than my Epson 8100 which can look purple in these dark scenes. And the bright scenes look spectacular. Have not watched a 2D movie on the 9500 since I started watching 3D.

Wait till you watch Avatar, you will feel like your running through the pandora forest, least I did. Like you said the 3D is great and emersive.
I started this 3D stuff with my Panasonic VT20 50", though the eye strain isn't too bad it is there. Watching for periods more then 3 hours is asking alot of me with the VT20. But watching 3D content with this Acer and DLP link I could watch it all day probably, no eye strain, just perfect 3D.
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post #906 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4mopar View Post

Wait till you watch Avatar, you will feel like your running through the pandora forest, least I did. Like you said the 3D is great and emersive.
I started this 3D stuff with my Panasonic VT20 50", though the eye strain isn't too bad it is there. Watching for periods more then 3 hours is asking alot of me with the VT20. But watching 3D content with this Acer and DLP link I could watch it all day probably, no eye strain, just perfect 3D.

Don't have Avatar 3D yet, look forward to seeing it on the Acer 9500. Did see it at the theater in 3D and thought it looked awesome. Went back today and watched some 2D POTC Stranger Tides on the Acer 9500 and thought wow this looks great also.

I messed around with the Overscan setting on the Acer 9500 and could not tell any difference between Underscan, Overscan, and Autoscan as far as the blurred images. There is no setting for Off on HDMI Scanning. The video looks sharp on all the settings. One thing that surprised me, on my Oppo 93 setting the sharpness to +1 introduced a halo on text and on zero setting there is no halo. The sharpness setting the the Acer even all the way to 15 there was no halo so it works differently and very well apparently.
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post #907 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post


Don't have Avatar 3D yet, look forward to seeing it on the Acer 9500. Did see it at the theater in 3D and thought it looked awesome. Went back today and watched some 2D POTC Stranger Tides on the Acer 9500 and thought wow this looks great also.

I messed around with the Overscan setting on the Acer 9500 and could not tell any difference between Underscan, Overscan, and Autoscan as far as the blurred images. There is no setting for Off on HDMI Scanning. The video looks sharp on all the settings. One thing that surprised me, on my Oppo 93 setting the sharpness to +1 introduced a halo on text and on zero setting there is no halo. The sharpness setting the the Acer even all the way to 15 there was no halo so it works differently and very well apparently.

Has anyone tried the dvi input ..does it show the same issue?
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post #908 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasim Pathan View Post

Has anyone tried the dvi input ..does it show the same issue?

I would suspect similar results from that too using the HDMI circuitry. I could be wrong but doubt it. I can't help but going back to the service menu pics mopar posted and trying to figure out what is going on with the digital circuitry. Oh well, without the unit in hand I am unable to play with it. Perhaps Acer knows something we do not and optimized the digital side such that nobody will suffer from ultra sharp viewing of crappy content. IDK.
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post #909 of 4744 Old 01-02-2012, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdfrost View Post

I do indeed own a H5360, this exhibits neither the blurriness or lag. It also changes mode a lot quicker than the H9500BD. Just a shame it's only 720p.

So, at this point would you suggest a buyer looking for a 3D projector for gaming only to buy the H5360? The H9500BD is a stretch on my budget ($1200 total), but I could save a bit more if it was worth it. But it seems to me the H5360 is an all-around better gaming monitor for a much nicer price
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post #910 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasim Pathan View Post

Has anyone tried the dvi input ..does it show the same issue?

Yep, exactly the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miahallen View Post

So, at this point would you suggest a buyer looking for a 3D projector for gaming only to buy the H5360? The H9500BD is a stretch on my budget ($1200 total), but I could save a bit more if it was worth it. But it seems to me the H5360 is an all-around better gaming monitor for a much nicer price

I'd definitely suggest going for the H5360 at the moment. The H9500BD is a mess for gaming at the moment (for me anyway) because of the blurry image and the lag when in 3D mode. Either go for the H5360 or hold off a bit until there's an official explanation (and hopefully a workaround) from Acer.
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post #911 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 04:30 AM
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I've had a chat to Acer support on the phone. They've acknowledged that it sounds faulty and it will be picked up tomorrow to go away for a repair. Fingers crossed!
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post #912 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdfrost View Post

I've had a chat to Acer support on the phone. They've acknowledged that it sounds faulty and it will be picked up tomorrow to go away for a repair. Fingers crossed!

Good luck with that.
I have an Acer 9500BD still boxed at my home.
Not sure if I should test it with my HTPC or return it without testing.
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post #913 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 06:07 AM
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Hi Tomdfrost,
can pls keep us posted on the repair as i can't get the correct clarity even using DVI..

Thanks!
EK
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post #914 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

Is this with acumotion on or off? Did you try the different settings like standard or presentation?

Also what about image detail? Could you see any difference there ? You mention subtitles. Maybe this only affects text, like a font smoothing thing.

this is with acumotion on/off

I am afraid the smoothening affects the whole picture being displayed and not just the text, when using HDMI connection..

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post #915 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 07:00 AM
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Regarding the sharpness issue. Those of you that are having issues, if you have a PS3 can you hook it up via HDMI and compare to Art's pics here:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/imag...laystation.jpg

Compare to other projectors here:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/acer...erformance.php

My Panasonic 210 BD player looks every bit as sharp as this image that Art posted (actually sharper to me in real life) and my experience with this projector regarding sharpness is that it is sharper than the Epson 3010.

It sounds like some of you are seeing a blurriness that is much more extreme as to what Art posted.
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post #916 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 07:38 AM
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Just sent mine back to acer repair center this morning to address the three issues I was having (SBS content tearing, sporadic shutdowns, and image sharpness over hdmi and dvi connections). I will post again in a few weeks when I get it back. Hopefully they can provide confirmation that these issues can be fully addressed with a firmware update. Time will tell...
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post #917 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Regarding the sharpness issue. Those of you that are having issues, if you have a PS3 can you hook it up via HDMI and compare to Art's pics here:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/imag...laystation.jpg

Compare to other projectors here:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/acer...erformance.php

My Panasonic 210 BD player looks every bit as sharp as this image that Art posted (actually sharper to me in real life) and my experience with this projector regarding sharpness is that it is sharper than the Epson 3010.

It sounds like some of you are seeing a blurriness that is much more extreme as to what Art posted.

Yeah those reviews are what I was seeing too.

> I know when I had the Windows 7 screen up I was not concerned of the sharpness, looked sharp to me (did not approach screen to see pixels though)
> Input lag useing windows didn't seem odd to me either. Mouse arrow reacted with movement with little to no lag noticed.
> Gaming off my PS3 mind you in 3D was awsome very nice picture and easy on the eye's for long game time use.
> Gaming in 3D off a PS3 I did not notice much input lag by feel. I did add the same audio delay I added to the movie watching to fix lip sync with movies. No lip sync issue noticed in gameing since games are not that accurate with that anyway. But expected sounds etc came when expected.

Input lag is by feel mind you but by feel and by audio lip sync it is around the 30ms testers have noted. The area I have most input lag is when playing a 3D movie with TMT 5 off the laptop, which TMT 5 is aware they induce audio lag so TMT 5 is most likely the culpret there. 3D off the PS3 the lip sync stays the same 2D or 3D content.
> All my connections where into a Pioneer VSX-30 reciever single HDMI out to projector. Have not compared to a VGA input.
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post #918 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4mopar View Post

Input lag is by feel mind you but by feel and by audio lip sync it is around the 30ms testers have noted.

I find this encouraging, on mine it was 300-350ms, which is a substantial differance. I'm really hoping mine is just broken and will come back fixed and perfect.
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post #919 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdfrost View Post

I find this encouraging, on mine it was 300-350ms, which is a substantial differance. I'm really hoping mine is just broken and will come back fixed and perfect.

Yes. I measured the lag only in 2D mode, but our playing Batman in 3D found the lag to be better than on the 3010, so I think a 300ms lag means a broken machine or bad cables.
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post #920 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdfrost View Post

I find this encouraging, on mine it was 300-350ms, which is a substantial differance. I'm really hoping mine is just broken and will come back fixed and perfect.

Then something was way off here. Definitely sounds like you have other issues. Here are the numbers with Accumotion off, on high, and on low:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/proj...t-results.html

You should be getting around 30ms with everything off. I know this same reviewer had much worse results initially and then swapped HDMI cables and everything started working again. For those of you having issues, have you tried a good quality HDMI cable? I typically only use Blue Jeans Cables or the higher end Monoprice cables.
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post #921 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Then something was way off here. Definitely sounds like you have other issues. Here are the numbers with Accumotion off, on high, and on low:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/proj...t-results.html

You should be getting around 30ms with everything off. I know this same reviewer had much worse results initially and then swapped HDMI cables and everything started working again. For those of you having issues, have you tried a good quality HDMI cable? I typically only use Blue Jeans Cables or the higher end Monoprice cables.

I assumed that at first too, but I tested it with 3 different cables, including the one that came with the projector which you'd think would be ok. I also had no lag on the H5360 using the same cables.

I believe the tests done on proctorreviews were in 2D mode, I'd say my 2D mode results are pretty similar, it's just 3D where it all goes wrong.
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post #922 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdfrost View Post

I assumed that at first too, but I tested it with 3 different cables, including the one that came with the projector which you'd think would be ok. I also had no lag on the H5360 using the same cables.

I believe the tests done on proctorreviews were in 2D mode, I'd say my 2D mode results are pretty similar, it's just 3D where it all goes wrong.

Gotcha
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post #923 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 01:48 PM
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Before boxing up the projector to send back I did some final testing.

2D input lag (compared to LCD monitor) 70ms
3D input lag 209ms

I also took some more photos of a test pattern. 1 pixel lines next to 5 pixel lines, on VGA, HDMI 2D and HDMI 3D. (Apologise for the shadow of the camera, I didn't spot it till after I'd boxed up.)

HDMI 2D


HDMI 3D


VGA


I think these highlight the problem much more than my previous picture, you can really see the difference in colour between VGA and HDMI.
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post #924 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 02:01 PM
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i forgot the other person who was having the same HDMI issue, were they in the UK also?
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post #925 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 03:24 PM
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When in 3d mode the 3d user menu always goes back to default every time i shut down the projector and start it again. Is this normal on other acers? For example i usually up the contrast and put the accu motion to low from the default of middle. It stays that way through the movie. If i exit 3d mode and go back in later the menu is back at the defaults.

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post #926 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 03:40 PM
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I noticed this too. Very annoying.
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post #927 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4mopar View Post

The Digital Black/Iris is being used in 3D. It is also adjustable, memory is slipping on me but if it is not adjustable in the regular menu it is available in the hidden menu. With content playing press power, left, left menu and it will pop up. Will have regular off, medium and high or can start adjusting the range yourself if one liked.

For me I use medium across the board. I like others notice the pumping on high. Medium I noticed it very rarely and was subtle so unless looking for it most wouldn't even notice it in my opinion.

Tried this in 3D mode and couldn't get service menu to pop up, didn't do anything.

Press power button, then left cursor twice on the menu is that right?
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post #928 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 03:59 PM
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Power, left, left, and then menu to get in service menu. Went back and looked again.
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post #929 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post

Power, left, left, and then menu to get in service menu. Went back and looked again.

You got it, did you get it to work?
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post #930 of 4744 Old 01-03-2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasim Pathan View Post

i forgot the other person who was having the same HDMI issue, were they in the UK also?

I bought my projector from Newegg..
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