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post #91 of 4745 Old 11-06-2011, 12:04 PM
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Brightness is a big issue for LCD and LCoS since it makes the inherent "ghosting" of those technologies more evident. Take your pick -- RBE for DLP or "ghosting" for everything else.[/quote]

I have thrown tons of 3d material at the 3010 and have seen zero ghosting..if it has any..I have never seen it..I have seen ghosting on my mitsu dlp.
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post #92 of 4745 Old 11-06-2011, 12:08 PM
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but..at the same time..I have never seen rbe on my dlp either..my experience must be different than yours! everyone is gonna see things differently..no eyes see the same..no brains are the same..people need to make their own judgements with their own eyes..
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post #93 of 4745 Old 11-06-2011, 09:46 PM
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Did Tim ever get that DVI cable?

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post #94 of 4745 Old 11-08-2011, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagameballa View Post

but..at the same time..I have never seen rbe on my dlp either..my experience must be different than yours! everyone is gonna see things differently..no eyes see the same..no brains are the same..people need to make their own judgements with their own eyes..

The quote about "ghosting" comes from Projector Central. PC has tested several 3D projectors and found "ghosting" or "crosstalk" to be particularly problematic with the 3010 unit they tested.

"Finally, compared to other recently released 3D projectors, the 3010 shows a lot of crosstalk, to the point where it became obvious even when we were not actively searching it out."
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post #95 of 4745 Old 11-08-2011, 02:53 AM
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I have thrown tons of 3d material at the 3010 and have seen zero ghosting..if it has any..I have never seen it..I have seen ghosting on my mitsu dlp.

DLP's don't have ghosting, you probably had a signal problem or the PJ had an issue or something.

The RBE thing just depends on the individual, really this decision is more of a personal choice for DLP vs. LCD, so my recommendation is for people to try to go see both if they can. They each have advantages/disadvantages.


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post #96 of 4745 Old 11-08-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

DLP's don't have ghosting, you probably had a signal problem or the PJ had an issue or something.

The RBE thing just depends on the individual, really this decision is more of a personal choice for DLP vs. LCD, so my recommendation is for people to try to go see both if they can. They each have advantages/disadvantages.

There are reports of cross-talk with DLP projectors. I think it comes down to the glasses as well. PC reported minor cross-talk on the Optoma projectors as did projector reviews and there are reports of cross-talk from users on some of the DLP thread.

That said, I don't think there is any denying that DLP offers the best 3D experience. So if 3D is your primary reason for buying a projector, DLP should be on your shortlist.
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post #97 of 4745 Old 11-08-2011, 08:30 AM
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The reports are most likely from misconfiguration or using glasses wrong, there are a lot of settings to get right in 3D it appears, but I have almost no experience in 3D so I'm not sure, but people I trust that do basically say it's impossible to have the problem on a DLP, unless there is something else causing it, but it's not a problem with the DLP itself.


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post #98 of 4745 Old 11-08-2011, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The reports are most likely from misconfiguration or using glasses wrong, there are a lot of settings to get right in 3D it appears, but I have almost no experience in 3D so I'm not sure, but people I trust that do basically say it's impossible to have the problem on a DLP, unless there is something else causing it, but it's not a problem with the DLP itself.

It could very well be the glasses or people are claiming "ghosting" or "croos-talk" when it is something else like the source material. I am just pointing out that there are reports of people seeing this in DLP.
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post #99 of 4745 Old 11-08-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

It could very well be the glasses or people are claiming "ghosting" or "croos-talk" when it is something else like the source material. I am just pointing out that there are reports of people seeing this in DLP.

There are lots of screenshots of "ghosting" taken using LCD and LCoS projectors, but I haven't seen any taken when using a DLP projector. It would be an interesting comparison -- the same scene from a movie that shows cross-talk on something like the Panny 7000 and then a shot of that same scene taken with the HD33 or another DLP projector. Strange that neither PC or Projector Reviews hasn't done this kind of screenshot comparison.
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post #100 of 4745 Old 11-08-2011, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

It could very well be the glasses or people are claiming "ghosting" or "croos-talk" when it is something else like the source material. I am just pointing out that there are reports of people seeing this in DLP.

I mean the actual experts in 3D stuff sound very certain to me that this problem absolutely does not exist on DLP's.

A lot of the reviewers are not experts at 3D and are newbs in it, but if you listen to people in these forums that own multiple technologies and have been using 3D for a couple years, then I am pretty darn certain it's a configuration or source issue and has nothing to do with DLP.


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post #101 of 4745 Old 11-09-2011, 01:40 PM
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Here is a link to some video of the 9500BD in action. It is in German. I don't feel like translating the comments. You can tell he is impressed with the 3d viewing experience without understanding what he is saying. At the one point he says it was right in his face, basically. He also said it displayed a 3d image that is as good as anything you can find in the theater. IOWs it does not get any better than this. He also says the 3d is flawless several times. Earlier on he talks about the lens shift which is very limited as you can see only going up. That jives with the manual so the offset will never be less than 5%. Kinda defeats the purpose of lens shift there. I need to watch it a few more times and their other videos. It has been a long time for me with German.
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post #102 of 4745 Old 11-09-2011, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Here is a link to some video of the 9500BD in action. It is in German. I don't feel like translating the comments. You can tell he is impressed with the 3d viewing experience without understanding what he is saying. At the one point he says it was right in his face, basically. He also said it displayed a 3d image that is as good as anything you can find in the theater. IOWs it does not get any better than this. He also says the 3d is flawless several times. Earlier on he talks about the lens shift which is very limited as you can see only going up. That jives with the manual so the offset will never be less than 5%. Kinda defeats the purpose of lens shift there. I need to watch it a few more times and their other videos. It has been a long time for me with German.

If you have seen the Acer H5360 720p 3D projector in action with 3D then you will realize what an amazing product it is. If the H9500BD has better contrast, slightly better real world resolution etc. then it may be another steal of the century product. Personally I feel the Mits 7800 is going to produce slightly better 3D at significantly more money. DLP does 3D right.
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post #103 of 4745 Old 11-09-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I mean the actual experts in 3D stuff sound very certain to me that this problem absolutely does not exist on DLP's.

A lot of the reviewers are not experts at 3D and are newbs in it, but if you listen to people in these forums that own multiple technologies and have been using 3D for a couple years, then I am pretty darn certain it's a configuration or source issue and has nothing to do with DLP.

i used to think in absolutes about abour DLP not ghosting...until I read many many reports on HD3300 thread where people cannot tune out teh ghosting even with the RF glasses

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21190949

I found very minor ghosting using Optoma-DLP-link on HD33 (the end titles of Stepup-3D is a good source to test ghosting as even the mighty DLP showed the ghosting)
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post #104 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by falafala View Post

i used to think in absolutes about abour DLP not ghosting...until I read many many reports on HD3300 thread where people cannot tune out teh ghosting even with the RF glasses

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21190949

I found very minor ghosting using Optoma-DLP-link on HD33 (the end titles of Stepup-3D is a good source to test ghosting as even the mighty DLP showed the ghosting)

I guess I should stick with 720p 3D DLP -- no ghosting with Stepup-3D (which I own) or any of the many other titles I've seen in 3D. I'm using the Nvidia glasses, so that may have something to do with it. I've seen ghosting on other displays and have little to no tolerance for it.
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post #105 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 11:08 AM
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@falalal
If some glasses do not work right with some DLP's or cause ghosting, but that same DLP can have other glasses used for it that have zero ghosting, then that in my view is not the DLP, that is the glasses.


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post #106 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I guess I should stick with 720p 3D DLP -- no ghosting with Stepup-3D (which I own) or any of the many other titles I've seen in 3D. I'm using the Nvidia glasses, so that may have something to do with it. I've seen ghosting on other displays and have little to no tolerance for it.

the scene i am talking about is the beginning of closing ttiles where a HUGE shoe with green-neon laces pops out of screen (incredible isn't it ?)

i saw similar level of ghosting on HD33+Optoma-DLP-link and 3010-Espon-glasses
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post #107 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 12:30 PM
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Sounds like a problem with the content itself.


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post #108 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 12:48 PM
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Is there another review out there? I was hoping for more comments from the OP.
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post #109 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falafala View Post

the scene i am talking about is the beginning of closing ttiles where a HUGE shoe with green-neon laces pops out of screen (incredible isn't it ?)

i saw similar level of ghosting on HD33+Optoma-DLP-link and 3010-Espon-glasses

That is not ghosting because of the equipment. I just examined that scene multiple times and come to the conclusion that it is caused by the original source content, period. I do not think the double image of the end of that shoe lace would be clear on any equipment as it seems that is the way it was generated. In short that is the way it is. My TV does not ghost unless it is in the content already. The double image was so subtle I about missed it and rewinded several times and paused it, sure enough, there it was. And before anyone asks, I only saw it when the end of the shoelace/tip stops by the shoe.

Of course I never saw it before because by then I was probably ridding myself of adult beverages. Oh, and while I had the BD in I also had to enjoy some of the good 3d it has, especially the first dance competition. That chick just comes out of the screen with those gloves lol. Not my favorite movie but good 3d in it for sure.

Edit: whoops, I almost forgot to post on topic here. I thought I saw a post by someone who stated this is basically a 7531 with 3d. If this is correct, it did not fare too well in reviews. Any thoughts on this?
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post #110 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

That is not ghosting because of the equipment. I just examined that scene multiple times and come to the conclusion that it is caused by the original source content, period. I do not think the double image of the end of that shoe lace would be clear on any equipment as it seems that is the way it was generated. In short that is the way it is. My TV does not ghost unless it is in the content already. The double image was so subtle I about missed it and rewinded several times and paused it, sure enough, there it was. And before anyone asks, I only saw it when the end of the shoelace/tip stops by the shoe.

Of course I never saw it before because by then I was probably ridding myself of adult beverages. Oh, and while I had the BD in I also had to enjoy some of the good 3d it has, especially the first dance competition. That chick just comes out of the screen with those gloves lol. Not my favorite movie but good 3d in it for sure.

Edit: whoops, I almost forgot to post on topic here. I thought I saw a post by someone who stated this is basically a 7531 with 3d. If this is correct, it did not fare too well in reviews. Any thoughts on this?

It seems the only way the content itself can have ghosting is when Left image itself has small amount of right image (and vice versa) in the source material ....and the only way to tell if this is the case is if your PJ allows you to display L or R image only in 2D mode and you see the double image

did you try this or are you just guessing ?

BTW, yes the red-glove-chick and other dancers poking thier hands at you is very disconcerting I almost sucked my tummy in when they do this so as not to get poked !
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post #111 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by falafala View Post

It seems the only way the content itself can have ghosting is when Left image itself has small amount of right image (and vice versa) in the source material ....and the only way to tell if this is the case is if your PJ allows you to display L or R image only in 2D mode and you see the double image

did you try this or are you just guessing ?

Or if the generated, read not filmed but generated 3d image has left and right images that are not in complete/proper alignment. I do not know how generated 3d imaging works but this would seem to explain what I saw because my tv does not ghost on anything filmed, just that generated image. And yes, I am guessing here because I do not believe I am able to display just the left or right image on my checkerboard TV unless I get to playing with it on the PC. Then I am fooling around with Nvidia again which gets my blood pressure up.

Would you disagree that a generated 3d image that was not perfectly aligned on the screen would have the image of the left eye slightly off from the image the right eye is seeing and therefore appear as ghosting that has nothing to do with the display or the glasses. Again, yes I am guessing, theorizing because filmed 3d content is 100% ghost free when done properly. When not done properly it is less sharp, deep, but still ghost free. So how to explain this what I call cartoon ghosting business? Yes I call most generated content cartoon. This topic is probably better addressed in a different forum. I say it is in the source material whether my explanation is correct or not. And yes, I am still guessing.
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post #112 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry guys. Been traveling for work the past week. The dual link dvi is at home waiting for me to try out this weekend.
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post #113 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 07:50 PM
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Sorry guys. Been traveling for work the past week. The dual link dvi is at home waiting for me to try out this weekend.

No problem Tim. The folks at the Nvidia forum have pretty much discounted the 120hz 3d on this one. I am more interested in the PQ in 2d and 3d. This looks like a great unit except the low lamp life. I have always had good luck with acer products though. The monitor I am viewing this on is an acer. Sorry if I pulled this OT recently. I also realized that someone posted a link to the German video of this unit but somehow I missed that. He seemed impressed with it. He actually uses the acer 3d glasses for his HD33 review lol.
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post #114 of 4745 Old 11-10-2011, 09:50 PM
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it would have been nice if this had a 3 pin 3D VESA connection for using your own emitter / glasses. I believe the Optoma GT750 has this.

are you forced to use DLP link or the NVidia 3D vision setup with this projector like the original Acer 5360?
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post #115 of 4745 Old 11-13-2011, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't been able to get 1080p at 120hz working yet. Haven't tried any edid hacks yet, just tried forcing the resolution via powerstrip.
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post #116 of 4745 Old 11-13-2011, 03:48 PM
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Tim, do you happen to have guitar hero to perform the input lag adjust and post findings?
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post #117 of 4745 Old 11-13-2011, 07:12 PM
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A program you can use for input lag is at the top of this link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1068844

Multi-Projector Edge-Blending & Geometry correction for games and simulations.
http://www.youtube.com/VanFS3K
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post #118 of 4745 Old 11-13-2011, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

I haven't been able to get 1080p at 120hz working yet. Haven't tried any edid hacks yet, just tried forcing the resolution via powerstrip.

Thank you for your time Tim, we certainly appreciate any info, by the way it appears you are the only source of info on this projector and Im on the fence between the acer and epson 3010. Can you comment on the 9500's black level in 2d and 3d. I am hoping the acer is on par with the 8350 in 2d. thank you!
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post #119 of 4745 Old 11-14-2011, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Snipe3000 View Post

A program you can use for input lag is at the top of this link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1068844

Only thing with that test and it is explained in that thread too is that it only tells you the lag difference from each display device. Example laptop has 20ms input lag and projector shows 40ms more then the laptop. Projector is actually 60ms input lag, but one may think it is only 40ms with that testing.
Guitar Hero has a input lag adjuster that some believe is more accurate a test.
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post #120 of 4745 Old 11-14-2011, 01:51 PM
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Thats why its preferred to dig out an old CRT monitor to use with this test.
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