Epson 3010 vs Optoma HD33 - A user's perspective - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 366 Old 11-10-2011, 03:13 PM
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http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/mon...of-overdrive/1

As far as I understand this article... the "Overdriven" LCD panels that make time travel... er... fast LCD response times (and therefore 3D) possible are to blame for the high input lag. It looks like NEC might have a solution, though... whatever it is.

The bad news is that this is probably what we can come to expect from 3D LCD Projectors. The good news is that it only really affects gaming. The better news: there's always DLP. The worst news: unless you're as RBE sensitive as me.

sad face
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post #212 of 366 Old 11-10-2011, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vooswing View Post

Question about DLP "pop". I've been waiting for an inexpensive 3D option to replace my aging Optoma HD70 720p projector and with the HD33 on backorder in every B&M store near me I bought the 3010 yesterday and ended up returning it today.

I didn't really have any issues with the 3010 but I expected to be wowed by the difference between 720p and 1080p and although it looked better I wasn't wowed by the 2d and just couldn't justify $1700 for 3D. I've read posts where people have said DLP tends to pop while LCD tends to have a more cinema like image and maybe I'm just used to DLP. I thought the 3010s picture looked very good but seemed was just missing something, it just looked smooth and dull and just didn't have the crispness and sparkle I'm looking for, is that the pop people refer to?

I'm still planning on trying out the HD33 once a store near me gets it in stock but now I'm worried I'm just expecting to much of an improvement over 720p and won't be happy with the 33 either for the price. It was bittersweet returning the 3010 today because I loved the 3D on the 120" screen, I just want more crispness in the 2d.

I'm not sure about the HD33 but I would expect it to be much sharper and have way more detail and pop then your current 720p projector. At least that's the case with my Acer 5360 and a Infocus X10. No contest here, the X10s 2D image simply destroys the Acer.
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post #213 of 366 Old 11-10-2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/mon...of-overdrive/1

As far as I understand this article... the "Overdriven" LCD panels that make time travel... er... fast LCD response times (and therefore 3D) possible are to blame for the high input lag. It looks like NEC might have a solution, though... whatever it is.

The bad news is that this is probably what we can come to expect from 3D LCD Projectors. The good news is that it only really affects gaming. The better news: there's always DLP. The worst news: unless you're as RBE sensitive as me.

sad face

Hm... The article documents correlation, but not causation... Is there really some innate quality about overdriving pixels that causes panels using this technique to be laggy? The article admits it doesn't understand why... And I can't concieve of why a pixel would need an additional 40ms lead time to turn on/off quickly... I wonder if the issue is that the display must process a peak-and-hold pattern for the pixel output, which adds time in the form of pre-screen processing?

Also, are we sure this is how Epson is achieving their 480hz speeds?

It would make sense, I agree with that- just want to make sure there's enough evidence before we move from 'good theory' to fact ...

Also note that they did achieve lag-free results in a later version of one of the monitors in their test with a dedicated game mode. So there's still definitely hope.
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post #214 of 366 Old 11-11-2011, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

The measurement method is not 100% perfect, but it's well-established to be a "pretty good" method, and definitely serves as a fair way to compare different models.

Some points:

-While there is potential for some introduced lag due to video memory copying, memory bandwidth on any modern video card would make copying a two-dimensional desktop a matter of single-digit milliseconds. Further, the direction of bias would be completely unpredictable.

Thanks, yes this makes sense. I didn't know what this should be, however, I have noticed at least on my laptop hooked up either to an external monitor or to a data projector that there DOES appear to be NOTICABLE lag when cloning (and I'm not playing games on it). That said, I'll also admit that due to the native resolution of my laptop (1440x900), turning on cloning ALWAYS results in scaling since the monitors/data projectors (for work) I have tried never match that resolution. So this might be entirely due to that.

That said I do take your point that the memory to memory copy could very well be sub ms and thus be irrevelant then, especially after I thought of this further.

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Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post


-For testing validity, a monitor should be chosen with the same native display resolution as the projector, and the resolution sent should be that resolution. Thus, scaling would not come into play. (As a note, resolution scaling for this purposes would introduce lag in the reference, meaning numbers measured would be lower than actual - NOT inflated)

Point taken, but if the resolution of the primary screen is say 1024x768 and the cloned screen is 1920x1080, thus meaning that the screen is first rendered for 1024x768 and then scaled up when that frame buffer is copied, I could see additional lag appearing on the 2nd screen from the 1st due to this. I wouldn't think that the video driver would wait for both buffers to be filled before displaying the screen to either. Could be wrong of course. Been forever since I was involved with any driver development and dual screens was a rarity then (not to mention that the HW acceleration nowadays is VASTLY improved).

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Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post


-VGA splitter is not a good solution. VGA being an analog signal, it must be processed via a>d conversion in order to be displayed.

True - and would indeed also introduce error if comparing between CRT and projector I admit.

If one used VGA on two digital displays (ie: LCD monitor and LCD PJ), I could see it being roughly equiv (other than one having a slower A>D of course, which would introduce measurement errors). Point was just that splitting of a VGA signal typically is indeed easier than HDMI.

But I understand where you're coming from (definitely wasn't stating that splitting of VGA is a good solution for actually viewing, only that it might be an option for testing purposes). :-)

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Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post


In reference to your suggestions for testing:

-swapping the cables is a good way to eliminate mirroring bias, but we're talking nearly-immeasurable differences. No way copying from one page in vram to another is even 1ms. Worth a try to confirm, but if there's any difference your video card manufacturer REALLY screwed something up.

Point taken, upon furhter thought, fully see your point on this being (most likely) insignificant.

[quote=defiancecp;21195025]

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Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

-Definitely turn off all enhancements, but I think everyone here who has done the test started out by doing this. I know I spent hours searching for different enhancements to turn off, but nothing helped.

I haven't had a chance to play around with the settings much, and just assumed that some of them could be disabled. As some have said, it would be great if Epson did have another "Game" setting that turned off all the enhancements (or most) to reduce lag. At least two of the TVs in the house have this (a Sony and Vizio, don't think my Philips does).

BTW - I did play a couple of games last night just to see what lag i might experience. Halo 2 on the 120" screen did "seem" to have lag (though its been a long time since I played it), but when I zoomed to make the screen far smaller I didn't notice it any. Guess some of that comes from getting used to playing on a 120" screen vs my old 42". So that might have just been me. Then I downloaded the Star Wars II demo, and played some of it, did not notice any lag at all, even at 120".

Of course neither did I do multiplayer, etc.

I'm not a big gamer (anymore), so don't think this will bother me. So long as it doesn't add so much lag to the Kinect games (that me and my kids play more), don't think it will matter. My guess is that I won't notice a difference here anyway - especially since the Kinect has a bit of a lag in itself anyway due to the technology.
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post #215 of 366 Old 11-12-2011, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I got a replacement from BestBuy for my 3010 as the earlier one had 3 problems all of which seem to be much much better

The new one has

1) better pixel convergence when viewed up close
2) IRIS is not audible anymore, except when signal switches...even then its barely audible just like Art said (Yeah!!!!!)
3) the faint ghosting in 3D is pretty much non-existent....to my "trained eyes" i could occasionally see very very little of it....but practically non existent

so i will be testing it more on known sources to see if this is a keeper

only disappointment i am having is that it looks like its been opened before...i noticed that there is prior sealing tape on the box that has been cut on top of which another tape has been put...i noticed this only after coming home...somebody has done a great job in putting the 2nd layer f tape as its not very obvious. Other reason that makes me suspect if its a used unit is the projector lens has some marks from some kind of residue of a cleaning solution and the projector body has ever so slight micro scratches...all other things look intact like power cord, glasses etc

first thing i did is to check lamp hours and it shows 0....but we all know that epson shows 0 hrs for 1st 10 hrs.....i want to catch this later point by logging my exact usage and see if the PJ shows 10 hrs sooner than my logs...this is a long shot as its very easy to reset the lamp hours by a prior owner

any suggestions on how i can determine this has been opened before ? BTW bestbuy guys claimed its a new unit
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post #216 of 366 Old 11-12-2011, 11:03 AM
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Ok, I think my final choice between choosing between the HD3300 and 3010 will be mounting.

I have a small townhouse so if anybody walks upstairs, it will shake the heck out of the basement ceiling. Do you think if I ceiling mount the 3010, that the vibrations will destroy the projector?

My screen is 4" from the ceiling and 19" from the floor. So I can either ceiling mount a 3010 or floor mount an HD3300, but not vice versa...
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post #217 of 366 Old 11-12-2011, 02:45 PM
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There are ceiling mounts with rubber isolation pieces to reduce vibration problems. I don't think it really matters what projector you pick, it's a mounting issue.

If you have elephants upstairs or an earthquake though you are in trouble no matter what you do.
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post #218 of 366 Old 11-12-2011, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21140400

SUMMARY: the replacement unit resolved 3 issues I didnt like about original 3010 and now IRIS is barely audible, much better cross-talk performance and near perfect RGB convergence yielding very sharp image.
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post #219 of 366 Old 11-13-2011, 07:20 AM
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So what's the deal? Will vibrations from the ceiling create an early demise for the 3010 projector?
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post #220 of 366 Old 11-13-2011, 01:42 PM
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Took the plunge and scooped up the 3010...

This thing is freaking BRIGHT. It's almost too bright @ 17 feet throw with low lamp and cinema mode on a 133" screen.

It certainly looks different (brightness aside obviously) from my old DLP Mitsubishi HD1000U. I will play with this projector for a week to see if I'm ok with LCD instead of my old DLP.

Also I don't know how I feel about the iris click-clacking away. I can quite clearly hear it when the volume is muted...
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post #221 of 366 Old 11-16-2011, 10:05 AM
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I wanted to update my 3010 review a little bit.
It's still going back- I'm returning it this Saturday. Which is really too bad. It's been a lot of fun.

RE: Games.
I played through Tron Evoltuion (PS3, Framepacked 720p@60hz), an hour or two of Gears of War 3 (360, SBS 1080p@60hz) and an hour or so of Arkham City (360, Framepacked 720p@60hz). First I have to say that I thought the 360 couldn't do framepacked. Plainly it can. I've also heard the consistent opinion that SBS 1080p@60hz would look better than Framepacked 720p@60hz. This hasn't been my experience at all, but it could be the source material. Both Tron and Batman looked much better than Gears. Gears still looked good, but it had a lot of jaggies and the text was obviously half horizontal resolution. Gears also uses the "reprojection" method instead of a true second camera and the 3D, while still good, didn't look as good to my eyes.

I said this more or less before, but it's worth repeating- My 3010 didn't detect the SBS for Gears, but it obviously detected the framepacking for both Batman and Tron.

All three games had good depth, with maybe a slight edge to Batman. It was also disappointing that Tron's cutscenes were in 2D only.

Hopefully xbox gets an update soon that makes the OS a little more 3D friendly. When wathcing SBS videos through it, the menu or other information appear across the bottom of both sides, so each eyes sees half the menu. When in framepacking mode, the friends list and other things look split top and bottom. You have to shut one eye to keep from going MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

RE: lag. The driving scenes in Tron were punishingly difficult due to the input lag, but the combat was largely unaffected. Sniping in Gears was a lot harder, but everything else seemed okay. There wasn't anytime in Batman that I was aware of the lag. It's sad because this projector is so close to being awesome.

RE: Ghosting. The longer I've had this PJ, the more aware of ghosting I've been. I don't know for sure though that it's not the glasses to some degree. I've had a really hard time keeping them clean and even after wiping them (one side at a time, or so I've been told) it seems that certain parts of the glasses are more susceptible to ghosting than others. It's not a deal breaker the way the lag is for me, but it's something I'd look to improve if possible.

RE: Fan and iris noise
Since my long review, I've listened more for fan or iris noise. I have now heard the iris, but only when there is no sound whatever. The start of a trailer for example. This doesn't really bother me, but it's there. The fan: I'd have to say it's still louder than I'd like. I thought 8 years of projector tech would have brought the noise down lower, but I'd still say it's lower than either my old Panny AE500 or the HD33.

That's maybe it.
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post #222 of 366 Old 11-29-2011, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post


RE: Fan and iris noise
Since my long review, I've listened more for fan or iris noise. I have now heard the iris, but only when there is no sound whatever. The start of a trailer for example. This doesn't really bother me, but it's there. The fan: I'd have to say it's still louder than I'd like. I thought 8 years of projector tech would have brought the noise down lower, but I'd still say it's lower than either my old Panny AE500 or the HD33.

Has anyone built a sound enclosure for their projector?

I used a projector for TV use for a while, and I went back to using a regular TV, because I got tired of the fan noise. I do miss the larger screen, though.

Michael
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post #223 of 366 Old 11-30-2011, 06:02 AM
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I would love to see more reviews of direct comparisons between these two units, especially after some of the bugs are worked out of the first production units (3010) and software is up to date (HD33). I do not have a place locally where I can see either in action. I'm reading all the threads that are related to both units and am really at an impasse. My main concerns are lag for gaming on the 3010 and possible RBE on the HD33. I do not know if I'm sensitive to RBE since I haven't had the chance to watch DLP. I do have a friend who claims high sensitivity...
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post #224 of 366 Old 11-30-2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtlots View Post

I would love to see more reviews of direct comparisons between these two units, especially after some of the bugs are worked out of the first production units (3010) and software is up to date (HD33). I do not have a place locally where I can see either in action. I'm reading all the threads that are related to both units and am really at an impasse. My main concerns are lag for gaming on the 3010 and possible RBE on the HD33. I do not know if I'm sensitive to RBE since I haven't had the chance to watch DLP. I do have a friend who claims high sensitivity...

You're pretty much right where I was before I bought both the HD33 and then the 3010. I bought both at Best Buy and have now returned both to Best Buy. In the end, it cost me nothing (except emotional damage). Is this an option for you? Frankly, it's something you'll have to see/play for yourself to see if either problem is an issue for you.
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post #225 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post

You're pretty much right where I was before I bought both the HD33 and then the 3010. I bought both at Best Buy and have now returned both to Best Buy. In the end, it cost me nothing (except emotional damage). Is this an option for you? Frankly, it's something you'll have to see/play for yourself to see if either problem is an issue for you.

Yes, I do have a BB within 30 miles. Perhaps I'm in a good situation. My 65" rear projection TV is on it's last legs but still holding out. Once the TV dies or is in it's final death throes, I'll have to make a quick decision. If it's 6 months or a year from now, there might be other options. BUT if it's tomorrow, I will be making a trip (or two) to BB & follow your plan of attack. Thanks.
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post #226 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 10:42 AM
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It's interesting that the Epson 3010 on Amazon has only 4 reviews and the Optoma HD33 has 21. If I were to buy today and had only the reviews on Amazon to go by, it would be a slam dunk for the HD33. It's killing the 3010.
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post #227 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtlots View Post

It's interesting that the Epson 3010 on Amazon has only 4 reviews and the Optoma HD33 has 21. If I were to buy today and had only the reviews on Amazon to go by, it would be a slam dunk for the HD33. It's killing the 3010.

The Optoma was released like 3 months before the Epson. The Epson just has not been around very long, and I am not sure how much stock techies place on Amazon reviews.
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post #228 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 11:17 AM
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The Optoma was released like 3 months before the Epson. The Epson just has not been around very long, and I am not sure how much stock techies place on Amazon reviews.

Amazon reviews are a mixed bag. Some of the people are discerning, and others not so much. You have to decide what kind of person is doing the reviewing. They tend to be good all around for things that break, however.

Michael
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post #229 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

Amazon reviews are a mixed bag. Some of the people are discerning, and others not so much. You have to decide what kind of person is doing the reviewing. They tend to be good all around for things that break, however.

Michael

Agreed. My biggest concern about Amazon has just been companies using shills to write positive or negative reviews. When it comes to home video/audio, I would trust AVS reviews anyday over Amazon.
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post #230 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 12:28 PM
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I finally gave up on BestBuy ever getting the Optoma in stock and ordered it on sale from Amazon over the weekend, it showed up today and after a few hours playing around with it I'm blown away.

I should note I'm upgrading from a Optoma HD70 720p DLP and may be biased because I've had that projector for about 5 years, am used to the DLP look, and never had a single problem with the HD70 so I'm already an Optoma fan.

There is definately a difference between the overall look of LCD and DLP. I think the best way to describe the difference to me was the 3010 felt like watching in a movie theater on a 120" screen while the HD33 feels more like watching a 120" HDTV. I don't know how to describe it but to me the LCD looked muted while the DLP looks crisp. They both look great but there is definately a difference and IMHO you have to experience both to see which you prefer. My only complaint with, and the reason I returned, the 3010 was the 2d didn't wow me, the 2d on HD33 does.

Hopefully my glasses will arrive later today because it's brutal to have a new 3d projector and not be able to test the 3d. I loved the 3d on the 3010 so hopefully the 33 will not dissappoint.
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post #231 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 12:46 PM
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Hey just a ? for you, I have the 3010 now and know exactly what you mean when you say it looks like the movie theater and not a hdtv..... I have the optoma hd20 and much prefer that 2d over the epson.... although for watching a actual movie and not like sports, tv or video games I would prefer the epson..... but anyways I saw a lot of ghosting on the epson 3010.... like two images of each person, lots of flickering shining outside edges when playing killzone 3.... so you didn't notice this, I also ordered off of amazon the hd33 when that comes in I will return the epson to best buy, just hoping that the crosstalk on the hd33 is significantly less then on the epson because my eyes are strained form it..... also will note did play batman and assains creed in 3d and didn't notice any double imaging.
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post #232 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

Amazon reviews are a mixed bag. Some of the people are discerning, and others not so much. You have to decide what kind of person is doing the reviewing. They tend to be good all around for things that break, however.

Michael

all 3010 owners, lets add our 5star reviews to Amazon
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post #233 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey just a ? for you, I have the 3010 now and know exactly what you mean when you say it looks like the movie theater and not a hdtv..... I have the optoma hd20 and much prefer that 2d over the epson.... although for watching a actual movie and not like sports, tv or video games I would prefer the epson..... but anyways I saw a lot of ghosting on the epson 3010.... like two images of each person, lots of flickering shining outside edges when playing killzone 3.... so you didn't notice this, I also ordered off of amazon the hd33 when that comes in I will return the epson to best buy, just hoping that the crosstalk on the hd33 is significantly less then on the epson because my eyes are strained form it..... also will note did play batman and assains creed in 3d and didn't notice any double imaging.

replied to you in HD33 forum....i think you got a lemon....my first 3010 had other issues including ghostng, once i swapped it the replacement is 10 times better....no ghosting, bright, vibrant colors in 2D and 3D, whisper quite IRIS...

if anything, i find it too bright at times and am looking to get a gray screen to improve blacks by giving up some lumens ....also i am learning how to calibrate a PJ (lot of fun, very inexpensive) and I clearly see the picture quality looks superb beyond out of box settings (which were very good to begin with)


having owned both, i can tell you that 3010 brightness and color in 3D is almost an essential for long terms 3D enjoyment as lamps dim over time !

highly recommend you swap it at best buy before your 14 days is up before making up your mind

also dont get me wrong, i absolutely loved HD33 and would have kept it if not for the fact that I got very jittery about crappy customer service (read this)....

Epson on the other hand s giving 2 year replacemen service on 3010....I will add my own personal testimonial by saying that I called epson before swapping my 1st 3010 at BB and they said that they are very sorry to hear the issues and were eager to do a 2-day swap if BB didnt come through for some reason. And they assured me that they will send me a brand new one if its within 1st 30 days and after that a refurb with new bulb....i didnt go this route because BB return was flawless as well, but I rest assured now that I can count on Epson for next 2 years !

if you really care about hassle free experience for DLP, the you should seriously consider HD3300 but be prepared to shell out another $300-400 above 3010
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post #234 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 05:35 PM
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cuse... I didn't test any games on the 3010 so I can't comment on that but i didn't notice any ghosting on the handful of 3d movies I sampled.

Unfortunately my glasses didn't arrive today so I can't comment on the 3d on the HD33. Once they arrive I'll post my thoughts on the 3d and when I get a change I'll give a couple of games a try to comment on that also.

I also ordered an Onkyo TXNR609 last weekend since my current receiver isn't 3d ready, it's amazing how things snowball when you start upgrading.
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post #235 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 07:46 PM
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vooswing... thanks would appreciate your thoughts on it. I am suppose to get the hd33 from amazon with two pairs of dlp link glasses on monday. Will update my comparison of the two pj next week sometime. Fortunatley I bought the epson 3010 from bb during holiday period so I have until Jan 24th to return it for full refund. I don't believe my reciever is 1.4 compatiable either, however with the epson 3010 everything worked fine even with 1.3 hdmi cables so maybe you wont have too. If the optoma requires it which it sounds like it will, instead of getting a new reciever you could just run direct video to the projector via hdmi then analog audio via rca cable out from your source saving you money. I am not that anal when it comes to audio so whatever the cheapest way around things if I have to get up and switch cords i don't care if its going to save me a couple hundred dollars. Also does anyone know of any wirless speakers that work where you just use rca to plug from source to transmitter? So that it wil work with tv/pc/ps3/xbox360? Thanks to anyone with info on that.

As far as the ghosting goes with the epson 3010 I will say this,

1. I migt just not really like 3d, or my eyes don't, the only experience I have of it prior to this pj is when I saw avatar 3d which I was blown away by, it was like going from black and white to a hd color new age tv. The 3d with this is in no way similar.

2. Like falfal sry best attempt of remembering ur s/n said maybe I have a lemon. The ghosting is so bad that I Feel like I am crosseyed while watching it. The only grand experience I have had is from 3d gaming batman/gow3/ac/and uncharted which was awsome. As far as movies go i found them difficult to watch. Granted the only really legit movie I viewed was captin america from the ps3 store and it was the best, but still had ghosting. I downloded avatar, green latern, and harry potter from torrent sites and all where terrible in 3d i also spent much time trying to tweak the settings none of which helped. I really hope that the hd33 is a big improvement if not then I just wasn't cut out for 3d.
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post #236 of 366 Old 12-01-2011, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cuse25 View Post

2. Like falfal sry best attempt of remembering ur s/n said maybe I have a lemon. The ghosting is so bad that I Feel like I am crosseyed while watching it. The only grand experience I have had is from 3d gaming batman/gow3/ac/and uncharted which was awsome. As far as movies go i found them difficult to watch. Granted the only really legit movie I viewed was captin america from the ps3 store and it was the best, but still had ghosting. I downloded avatar, green latern, and harry potter from torrent sites and all where terrible in 3d i also spent much time trying to tweak the settings none of which helped. I really hope that the hd33 is a big improvement if not then I just wasn't cut out for 3d.

you either got a very bad lemon or may be you need to just try a frame invert in the 3D menu (especially when you say cross-eyed, it may be that your L and R frames are inverted....something BTW i never had to do on my unit)

either way, i assure you that 3D on 3010 is nothing short of spectacular.....

even if you dont swap it, be assured that 3D on HD33 will please you beyond words...so don't give up
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post #237 of 366 Old 12-08-2011, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cuse25 View Post

vooswing... thanks would appreciate your thoughts on it. I am suppose to get the hd33 from amazon with two pairs of dlp link glasses on monday. Will update my comparison of the two pj next week sometime. Fortunatley I bought the epson 3010 from bb during holiday period so I have until Jan 24th to return it for full refund.

I'm really looking forward to your review of the HD33. After everything I've read so far, I'm leaning that direction.

Quite a few AVS owners have added reviews on Amazon for their Epson 3010's but they have been countered by several owners who added reviews for their HD33's.
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post #238 of 366 Old 12-08-2011, 07:06 AM
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I lost faith in Amazon reviews many years ago when I read review after review on how good Bose Cinemate systems were... I had a challenging family room for speakers and decided to pick up one of the Bose systems.. Wow. What a piece of crap.. I have heard speakers that cost a fraction of the price that could blow away the Bose. They were distorted, had no bass to speak of, and were headache inducing. I returned it the same day I bought it and picked up some small RBH Sound bookshelf speakers and a small subwoofer I could hide in the corner.

I simply put little faith in Amazon reviews for tech gear.
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post #239 of 366 Old 12-08-2011, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cuse25 View Post

vooswing... thanks would appreciate your thoughts on it. I am suppose to get the hd33 from amazon with two pairs of dlp link glasses on monday. Will update my comparison of the two pj next week sometime. Fortunatley I bought the epson 3010 from bb during holiday period so I have until Jan 24th to return it for full refund. I don't believe my reciever is 1.4 compatiable either, however with the epson 3010 everything worked fine even with 1.3 hdmi cables so maybe you wont have too. If the optoma requires it which it sounds like it will, instead of getting a new reciever you could just run direct video to the projector via hdmi then analog audio via rca cable out from your source saving you money. I am not that anal when it comes to audio so whatever the cheapest way around things if I have to get up and switch cords i don't care if its going to save me a couple hundred dollars. Also does anyone know of any wirless speakers that work where you just use rca to plug from source to transmitter? So that it wil work with tv/pc/ps3/xbox360? Thanks to anyone with info on that.

As far as the ghosting goes with the epson 3010 I will say this,

1. I migt just not really like 3d, or my eyes don't, the only experience I have of it prior to this pj is when I saw avatar 3d which I was blown away by, it was like going from black and white to a hd color new age tv. The 3d with this is in no way similar.

2. Like falfal sry best attempt of remembering ur s/n said maybe I have a lemon. The ghosting is so bad that I Feel like I am crosseyed while watching it. The only grand experience I have had is from 3d gaming batman/gow3/ac/and uncharted which was awsome. As far as movies go i found them difficult to watch. Granted the only really legit movie I viewed was captin america from the ps3 store and it was the best, but still had ghosting. I downloded avatar, green latern, and harry potter from torrent sites and all where terrible in 3d i also spent much time trying to tweak the settings none of which helped. I really hope that the hd33 is a big improvement if not then I just wasn't cut out for 3d.

I think you have a bad unit or perhaps your video sources are bad. Pick up the Tahiti Wild Wave 3D Blu Ray . You should see no ghosting and the 3D should look amazing.


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post #240 of 366 Old 12-08-2011, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you have a bad unit or perhaps your video sources are bad. Pick up the Tahiti Wild Wave 3D Blu Ray . You should see no ghosting and the 3D should look amazing.

AMEN !

I watched this and a lot of movies and games in 3D on both HD33 and 3010 and can honestly say that 3010 gives much brighter and colorful image than HD33. Sure HD33 has better black levels but they come at the cost of brightness.

Atleast for Avatar-3D-PS3 game, I had ot switch to 2D mode as its very dark on HD33. On 3010 its bright and vivid and this game takes on a whole new dimension (pun intended) !

I am a cross-talk freak and absolutely hated it on my Panasonic Viera 3DTV....so even though HD33 is the best in this department (with optoma-dlp-link glasses), on 3010 I rarely see it and even in those occasional cases, its so minor that it doesn't bother me.
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