Epson 8700UB Dust Blob? - AVS Forum

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Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
09:04 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 36
11-09-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
My pj is about 6 months old and for at least half of that (maybe more) there has been a fuzzy green spot about softball size in the center. From what I see in the forums it is probably a dust blob. When my kids even noticed the green spot, I decided I wanted to try and exercise my Warranty. I had already initiated the call to Epson and the first refurb was on the way when I started reading about the problems with convergence. Like others on the forums, my original pj seems to have very good convergence (I think, I am new to this).

So far the warranty process has gone like this:

First refurb had a smudge on the lens and the focus ring was jammed. Also the lens shift was very easily thrown off (seemed really loose compared to mine). I called this one in as DOA the day it arrived.

Second refurb has some light scratches on the lens but at least the focus ring works. Again the lens shift seems loose and thrown off much easier than mine. The convergence is quite a bit worse than mine from what my untrained eye can tell.

I also noticed that according to the serial numbers, I am getting units that are quite a bit older (at least in sequence) than mine.

Here are some pics.
LL
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LL
LL
LL
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
09:08 PM Liked: 10
post #2 of 36
11-09-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Here are 2 more shots. One is the green spot that started all this and the other I just though was interesting how much redder the black field is on the refurb. Does the new bulb make that much difference? Mine has a little over 400 hours on it.
LL
LL
jsil
10:11 AM Liked: 19
post #3 of 36
11-11-2011 | Posts: 1,649
Joined: Oct 2002
I would send it back it looks like you got a bad unit with lcd panel alignment. If it's more than 1 pixel off call them and see what happens good luck.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
10:18 AM Liked: 10
post #4 of 36
11-11-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Talked to them yesterday and they are sending another one which should arrive today. She was sending another refurbished so I asked if there was any way we could try a new one this time. She put me on hold for a second then said they could do that, so my fingers are crossed.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
09:22 PM Liked: 10
post #5 of 36
11-13-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
I am having a delima here between a little less sharp focus and not as good convergence on the brand new pj vs my old pj with the green spot/dust blob.

There is another difference between the new unit and my old pj that I have not been able to figure out. If I am on the "no signal" screen, the text on the new pj is considerably brighter and so is the "black" background. I switched the bulbs and it is not the bulb. The refurbs I tested also had brighter text and a lighter black backgroud. I cannot tell on a movie if the black bars are different between the two since I cannot run the same video signal to both at the same time but it seems that with a movie, both pictures are about the same brightness. Kind of has me wondering if there is a firmware difference that is handling the light differently when the pj is on the blank display.

Anyone noticed this? I will have to try and get some pics of the convergence/focus.
Bohanna's Avatar Bohanna
03:36 PM Liked: 24
post #6 of 36
11-14-2011 | Posts: 638
Joined: May 2007
I am not an Epson tech but I clean a lot of Sanyos and this "Dot" looks familiar. At first glance I would guess that somehow a bit of moisture has got on the backside of the front lens or on the front side of the LCD block. Because that doesn't look like a dust blob to me. It looks more like a water spot on a glass that has come out of the dishwasher. Either way to clean it you will have to clean the panels as if it were a dust blob. FYI The reason the newer unit is brighter is that the optics from the lamp to the front lens get a bit dusty over time and it dims the unit a bit. You may want to check and change your filter a bit more often.

Hope this helps

Bohanna
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
06:58 PM Liked: 10
post #7 of 36
11-14-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Well after closer comparison, and using the better convergence pattern, I do think my original pj is much better than this new one. When I very first turned on the new pj, I noticed that I could not get the focus dialed in as well. I think I am going to shoot these pics over to Epson as well so they don't think I am crazy (at least I don't think I am). What do those of you with a more trained eye think?

Here are 2 pics for the convergence on my original pj:



And these are of the new replacement:


FendersRule's Avatar FendersRule
11:36 PM Liked: 12
post #8 of 36
11-14-2011 | Posts: 1,699
Joined: Aug 2009
Send that back. That's unacceptable.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
11:51 AM Liked: 10
post #9 of 36
11-15-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Thanks for the confirmation. I am still waiting to hear back on the email I sent with the pictures. I will update here on what happens next.
FendersRule's Avatar FendersRule
11:54 AM Liked: 12
post #10 of 36
11-15-2011 | Posts: 1,699
Joined: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudsnowh2o View Post

Thanks for the confirmation. I am still waiting to hear back on the email I sent with the pictures. I will update here on what happens next.

That's more than 1 pixel off. The blue and red dots are at least two pixels apart. That's out of spec. That's all you need! The colors look correct, though.
jsil
01:37 AM Liked: 19
post #11 of 36
11-16-2011 | Posts: 1,649
Joined: Oct 2002
+1 on that's more than 1 pixel off send it back asap.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
09:55 AM Liked: 10
post #12 of 36
11-16-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
I never heard back on the email with pictures (besides the automated reply) So I called in this morning. They had me talk to level 2 support, who then had me talk to advanced technical support. He told me 1-2 pixels off on convergence is within spec and I told him that 1 was but 2 was not. He did not dispute that and said he would send out a new unit but have it pre-tested. Hopefully I can trust whomever is doing the testing (better not just be the guy that boxes them up) and they don't just give it the green light because it is "good enough". Granted most people would probably just fire up their new projector and be fine with it, because it did have a nice picture, but it was just not "sharp" like an HD display is expected to be and like my original is.

I really like my original pj but I am starting to have serious doubts about Epson QC.

Just curious, where is the spec of 1 pixel defined?

Fingers Crossed.
FendersRule's Avatar FendersRule
11:05 AM Liked: 12
post #13 of 36
11-16-2011 | Posts: 1,699
Joined: Aug 2009
You'll be fine. Epson is doing the right thing.
john wang's Avatar john wang
06:33 PM Liked: 10
post #14 of 36
11-17-2011 | Posts: 15
Joined: May 2011
I don’t understand….

mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
06:23 PM Liked: 10
post #15 of 36
11-18-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Got the new one today and I am on the fence right now. While I think we are much better on convergence, there is some yellow banding on the top and the bottom of a white screen. I don't know if this is common or not. I was not even looking for something like this, I just noticed while checking the contrast settings.

Also they actually put a smudge on the lens!

Here are the pics:

Original PJ (convergence images are earlier in the thread so I am just including the white field here)


New PJ #2




mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
08:55 PM Liked: 10
post #16 of 36
11-18-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
It looks like some actual video content looks pretty good though.
FendersRule's Avatar FendersRule
07:35 AM Liked: 12
post #17 of 36
11-19-2011 | Posts: 1,699
Joined: Aug 2009
Clean that lens.

I'm concerned about the banding. Maybe someone can chime in.
MississippiMan's Avatar MississippiMan
07:31 AM Liked: 272
post #18 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 15,428
Joined: Nov 2002
Fiji? I wish! (private joke)

Plainly stated, any "New" unit that comes to you with blatantly obvious issues should be returned. And "Always: a new unit should replace it.

The more times it happens that you get a lemon, the more right you have to squeeze Epson like a grape. It might get a bit frustrating, but in the end when you get a good 8700, you'll be enjoying some fine wine.
Laserfan
08:12 AM Liked: 18
post #19 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 3,776
Joined: Apr 2000
The lesson here should be: if your PJ is otherwise perfect, don't sweat the dust blob. Or clean it yourself.

Assuming the OP will ever get a PJ as nice as his first one, a new dust blob can appear on *it* at any time again.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
08:13 AM Liked: 10
post #20 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Thanks I guys, the opinions really help because I don't want to complain if any of these issues are considered typical for a pj. Since this is my first one, I am learning what are typical flaws and what aren't. I will contact them again today but I suspect they are going to be more hesitant since they inspected this last brand new one prior to shipping.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
08:50 AM Liked: 10
post #21 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

The lesson here should be: if your PJ is otherwise perfect, don't sweat the dust blob. Or clean it yourself.

Assuming the OP will ever get a PJ as nice as his first one, a new dust blob can appear on *it* at any time again.

Yeah, I hear ya. I did not realize mine was such a good unit (or QC at Epson has gone down hill) until I started comparing it against these replacements. I am also just assuming my issue is a dust blob from other posts I have read, but it could be something else. I was under the impression that dust blobs cannot really be cleaned without voiding warranty.

The only thing all of these replacements have beat out my original is on brightness. Not when actual content is being displayed, but when it is on the black "no signal" screen, the white text is much brighter on all of the replacements.
Laserfan
10:46 AM Liked: 18
post #22 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 3,776
Joined: Apr 2000
I really didn't want to add insult-to-injury with my comment, but yr Post 1 certainly describes a dust blob. And your warranty comment is certainly valid--wouldn't it suck if you cleaned the blob and then had a failure and they said "hey you opened it sorry Charlie" and wouldn't fix it.

Dust blobs are the bane of PJ existence. I have had two for a couple yrs now; very faint but I notice one of them every movie. The other seems to have faded as though the heat has done it in. I'm out-of-warranty I think and one day will take the thing apart (mine's a Mits HC4900) but among the concerns is finding a "clean room" around here. Wouldn't it suck if you took it apart and put it back together and there were MORE dust blobs if not other problems. I think we have some threads here where this has happened to folks.

The brightness thing is probably just a new bulb in every replacement you're getting, vs. a 6-mo old one you had. I think they can deteriorate pretty quickly.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
12:37 PM Liked: 10
post #23 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Yeah, I though about it being the bulb also, so I swapped my bulb, and the bulb in one of the replacements and the replacement pj was still the brighter one. The strange thing, is if I bring up an image, the brightness seems about the same. It just seems to be screens with no source content, that this difference occurs. Almost as if they have changed the firmware so there is more light output when not showing any source. Strange.
FendersRule's Avatar FendersRule
01:15 PM Liked: 12
post #24 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 1,699
Joined: Aug 2009
Provide them with pictures of the banding. Be polite, and they'll follow through. I'm not sure whether or not that is "acceptable" or "within spec." I know very little about banding, and if it's normal or not.

The convergence looks phenomenal with your current projector. You can't get better than that.

You can't self-clean the optical path on an Epson 8700UB. Even if it didn't void the warrantee, it's not a simple task that most people could even do.

That's why I'm trying to raise concern with the new Epson projectors. The optical path should be user-cleanable.

Dust Blobs are indeed a nuisance. It's best to probably live with it, to be honest. If the QC was better, I'd probably say differently.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
02:27 PM Liked: 10
post #25 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
I sent them an email this morning as I really won't have a chance to call them from work today. I told them that I had an issue with yellow banding on this one and that I would like to send the latest new replacement back. I let them know that I was getting a bit frustrated and unless they can schedule a replacement for a later date, I would like to hold off until after the Holiday. I was polite in the email but I mentioned the frustration so they realize this is not fun for me either. I also mentioned that it came with a smudge on the lens, and while I did not think it was a big deal, I also did not think they should be sending out a "quality checked" device with a smudged lens. There is every possibility that I may just end up keeping my original since I am becoming increasingly convinced they have a quality consistency problem.
FendersRule's Avatar FendersRule
02:37 PM Liked: 12
post #26 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 1,699
Joined: Aug 2009
Hopefully you've sent the pictures along with your email. Provide them with some evidence, and it'll go far.

With other companies, you wouldn't even get a response. That's what's so nice about Epson. They'll keep going until you're happy.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
06:23 PM Liked: 10
post #27 of 36
11-21-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
I sent the pictures and they just said I needed to call in. I went through level 2 support at which point they said they were going to have to have their advanced team investigate further because I had already been sent 4 replacements. I have remained polite and not given them any reasons to distrust me, but I can sense that they are getting reluctant.
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
01:53 PM Liked: 10
post #28 of 36
11-22-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudsnowh2o View Post

Yeah, I though about it being the bulb also, so I swapped my bulb, and the bulb in one of the replacements and the replacement pj was still the brighter one. The strange thing, is if I bring up an image, the brightness seems about the same. It just seems to be screens with no source content, that this difference occurs. Almost as if they have changed the firmware so there is more light output when not showing any source. Strange.

Haha, now I am going crazy, here I am quoting myself!

I think it is the iris causing the difference in brightness. After reading the official 8700UB thread, someone was mentioning you can test the iris by going from a bright screen to a black screen. This reminded me that I noticed on original pj, when I switch from a bright screen to the "no signal" black screen, at first it was the same brightness as the replacments, but as I heard the iris do it's thing, that is when the white text and black background would dim more that the replacements. Perhaps the iris on my original is stopping down the light level a little too much.

Anyway, still waiting for Epson to call me back. I have not decided yet if I am going to push for another new replacment, keep the new replacment with the slight yellow banding on the white field and not quite as good convergence, or keep my original with the "dust blobs" and lower light output on the "no signal" screen.
Laserfan
06:45 AM Liked: 18
post #29 of 36
11-23-2011 | Posts: 3,776
Joined: Apr 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudsnowh2o View Post

I have not decided yet if I am going to push for another... or keep my original with...

Through all of this they've not required that you send-back your original PJ??? Wow, maybe I will buy an Epson next time!
mudsnowh2o's Avatar mudsnowh2o
12:12 PM Liked: 10
post #30 of 36
12-08-2011 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2011
Update: The guy that called me back was very pleasant, and said he was going to call me back after the holidays to send out a new unit. He called as promised and set it out. I just hooked it up last night and The white field looks much better. There is a pink tint to about a 1" strip from top to bottom on the right edge and the same on the left edge that is slightly bluish, but my original had the pink on the right as well. Convergence might not be quite as spot on but this one is pretty good. I think I am going to keep this one because I don't think it has any issues that will be noticeable under normal viewing and I am as sick of sending units back and forth as they are.

Thanks for all all the input!

Kody
Tags: Epson Home Cinema 8700 Ub Projector

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