Official Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5010 / 6010 thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 3384 Old 02-23-2012, 02:13 PM
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Just ordered the 5010, and was looking into calibration options. In research it is clear there will be more shift as the hours build up than the Plasmas I'm used to. So now considering a ChromaPure set up to keep things on track myself rather than a one time calibration. Question now is, is it worth throwing an outboard processor on there as well to make calibrations quick and easy every 100 hours or so, or is the onboard processor easy enough to use myself. To be clear I was looking at the ChromaPure standard with auto calibration capabilities, and possibly an Ancor Bay processor if going auto. Oh and then I need a screen too......
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post #1082 of 3384 Old 02-24-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motovet View Post

Question now is, is it worth throwing an outboard processor on there as well to make calibrations quick and easy every 100 hours or so, or is the onboard processor easy enough to use myself.

This may not be the best thread for your question. I'm also looking into calibration equipment (i've borrowed equipment in the past) but I'm guessing that most of the people on this thread use factory setting, or reviewer's settings, or calibrate by eye and test pattern discs.

I'm on my third projector spanning about 25 years and I think you'd have to be extremely picky to calibrate every 100 hours. The most change occurs in the first 100-200 hours of bulb life and then it is usually much more gradual after that. Since it a waste of time to accurately calibrate a projector with a new bulb, I suggest you live with your 5010 for awhile before investing in calibration equipment. You may find you don't need calibration equipment.

- David
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post #1083 of 3384 Old 02-24-2012, 08:44 AM
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Epson does send refurb units afaik. I don't see that as too bad though. Then you know they have looked at it and made sure it is good. The auto lens cover is cute, but I sure could live without it.
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post #1084 of 3384 Old 02-24-2012, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

The auto lens cover is cute, but I sure could live without it.

I wished that you could disable it.
I'm not found of the mechanical clankity door opening and closing activating every time I use the projector. On most projectors, it's a sliding single door/cover, not a 2 piece cover that collapses into the body.

2014
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post #1085 of 3384 Old 02-24-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

I wished that you could disable it.
I'm not found of the mechanical clankity door opening and closing activating every time I use the projector. On most projectors, it's a sliding single door/cover, not a 2 piece cover that collapses into the body.

I like the idea of a clean dust free front lens....so hey I deal with the star trek sounding opening and closing of the door
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post #1086 of 3384 Old 02-24-2012, 08:21 PM
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Ozer, I'm dying to hear your impressions of the 6010 with your BD Zero Edge (in a white room!) with ambient light, particularly day light. Thanks in advance.
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post #1087 of 3384 Old 02-25-2012, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhaneef View Post

Ozer, I'm dying to hear your impressions of the 6010 with your BD Zero Edge (in a white room!) with ambient light, particularly day light. Thanks in advance.

Hi there. Sorry i was too immersed in the newly adopted setup

As far the PJ goes, it is everything that everyone said in these threads and then some more. That's probably because it is my first ever PJ, but I love evrything about it.

Regarding the BD Zero Edge, mine is 1.4 gain, and it comes with purplish hue. I love how it looks even when the PJ turned off. You wont be disappointed IMO.

Now, getting to the performance, my room is completely white, and i have 16 feet of sliding doors right next the screen, and those doors are looking to South West. This means I get more than enough sunshine in the afternoon. As expected, even though it is watcheable (subjective), i wouldnt want to sit and watch movies during daytime. You can, knowing how amazing it looks when its dark, you dont want to waste the movie

Because my ceiling is white, i expected more of a reflection from the screen to the ceiling, but i guess One of BD's strengths is exactly that. It keeps the light on the screen. Viewing cone is also very good even though i will never need to view it even at 45 degree angle. But you can.

Once i get some shades to my sliding doors, i think i will be able enjoy it much better on the daytime weekends. Especially 3D is very tiring (you can see the shutter effect) when the sun is shining. Of course this it neither the screens or the PJ's fault i guess.

Overall, i am very content about this setup. Every time i watch something, i have this stupid grin in my face. it's time to enjoy some 3D content
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post #1088 of 3384 Old 02-25-2012, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozer19 View Post

That's probably because it is my first ever PJ, but I love evrything about it.

Overall, i am very content about this setup. Every time i watch something, i have this stupid grin in my face. it's time to enjoy some 3D content

I'm glad you're enjoying your first projector, they're pretty awesome aren't they.

I've had my 8500UB for two years now and I still smile every time I watch something...........I'm sure that grin will be there a while.
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post #1089 of 3384 Old 02-25-2012, 01:42 PM
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Thanks Ozer, I hope to have that grin soon!
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post #1090 of 3384 Old 02-25-2012, 07:21 PM
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Okay I have been noticing that every often the pj(EPSON 5010) goes out of focus. And I tend to adjust the focus ever so slightly, every time I fire up the PJ. Has anyone noticed this.Is this normal?
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post #1091 of 3384 Old 02-26-2012, 08:50 AM
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Hello guys,

I own a TW9000 (6010) for 10 days now and BTW I am an ISF and THX certified calibrator.
I already did a preliminary calibration and I was positively surprised by the gray scale tracking, gamma tracking and gamut. Especially since I had the TW5500 (9700UB) before that and had to squeeze average performances from it every 100 hours.

BUT this proj has undeniably a focus problem. Most of the time I have the feeling I am watching 720p material. But is it a focus problem?
I am reading a lot about its convergence problem too.

I am nearly at 35 hours and getting ready for my next and real calibration and I am asking the community here to share its thoughts and experience.
I also prepared the unit for LCD alignment. Any enlightenment here are welcome too.

Thank you
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post #1092 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkirangi View Post

Okay I have been noticing that every often the pj(EPSON 5010) goes out of focus. And I tend to adjust the focus ever so slightly, every time I fire up the PJ. Has anyone noticed this.Is this normal?

it's your head, unless something move it.
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post #1093 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 05:46 AM
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I wonder if it the lens cover opening and closing makes it go off focus. It is not the smoothest cover slide. Just a thought.
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post #1094 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkirangi View Post

Okay I have been noticing that every often the pj(EPSON 5010) goes out of focus. And I tend to adjust the focus ever so slightly, every time I fire up the PJ. Has anyone noticed this.Is this normal?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...s#post21493412

2014
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post #1095 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 09:51 AM
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xtrips, my alignment was way off and that certainly does make it look out of focus. It is super easy to fix though, and kind of fun. I recommend adjusting R and using the RG pattern, so you are aligning red to green, then doing blue seperatetly, with GB pattern. Then it should be good.
Also though, some of these projectors have lens problems, and you may need to return it.
There can be another problem. I know my green on the upper left has really fat pixels, where red and blue are sharp all over. It doesn't bother me at all watching content so I just live with it.
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post #1096 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 11:15 AM
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Has anyone so far, color uniformity problems. ?

In my city, between 2-3 people and I to purchase the same week, we had this problem.
Green color to the right of the screen about a palm thick.
The problem occurred at approximately 30 hours of operation.
And of course we all had our problem with the focus.
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post #1097 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemos View Post

Has anyone so far, color uniformity problems. ?

In my city, between 2-3 people and I to purchase the same week, we had this problem.
Green color to the right of the screen about a palm thick.
The problem occurred at approximately 30 hours of operation.
And of course we all had our problem with the focus.

Got any pictures ?
Only asking to see if you actually see during a movie or just on calibration screens, etc. I seem to see a bit in setup, yet during a movie I can't see.
This pic makes is worse than it is ?
I was wondering if this was jsut the calibration disk doing this, etc. ???
LL
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post #1098 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post

Got any pictures ?
Only asking to see if you actually see during a movie or just on calibration screens, etc. I seem to see a bit in setup, yet during a movie I can't see.
This pic makes is worse than it is ?
I was wondering if this was jsut the calibration disk doing this, etc. ???

Unfortunately I have no pictures and I have given for replacement, so I can not take pictures.

Green was the same in thickness and maybe a little more intense color.(I'm not sure I can not see the image well you post it)
It was visible even in a movie, where the edge seemed white or gray background.
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post #1099 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

xtrips, my alignment was way off and that certainly does make it look out of focus. It is super easy to fix though, and kind of fun. I recommend adjusting R and using the RG pattern, so you are aligning red to green, then doing blue separately, with GB pattern. Then it should be good.
Also though, some of these projectors have lens problems, and you may need to return it.
There can be another problem. I know my green on the upper left has really fat pixels, where red and blue are sharp all over. It doesn't bother me at all watching content so I just live with it.

That is good news. I have further questions though if you don't mind.
In the end, did you manage to get a real and noticeable improvement in convergence?
How was the overall quality of the picture after the alignment?
Can you confirm that you did first the 4 corners, then the inside of the frame?
How many positions did you correct inside the frame?
Is your projector ceiling mounted? If so, did you put it on its feet before the LCD alignment?
My screen is 116' 16/9. Do you recommend doing the procedure on a smaller portion of the screen?

Thanks for your help
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post #1100 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 02:11 PM
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Is there ANY reason that this projector (6010) should not be mounted completely parallel to ceiling/floor? (use of a lens, mounted above top edge of screen, etc) It seems that most people mount parallel but my installer seems to want to mount it on an angle and use keystone to correct the trapezoid that it creates.
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post #1101 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Jackals View Post

Is there ANY reason that this projector (6010) should not be mounted completely parallel to ceiling/floor? (use of a lens, mounted above top edge of screen, etc) It seems that most people mount parallel but my installer seems to want to mount it on an angle and use keystone to correct the trapezoid that it creates.

You need to get a new installer. Seriously. The only reason I can think that the projector shouldn't be parallel to the ceiling or floor is if the screen itself is slanted/tilted. The use of keystone correction will force the projector to scale the picture which will result in noticeable artifacts and deteriation of picture quality.

- David
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post #1102 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post

You need to get a new installer. Seriously. The only reason I can think that the projector shouldn't be parallel to the ceiling or floor is if the screen itself is slanted/tilted. The use of keystone correction will force the projector to scale the picture which will result in noticeable artifacts and deteriation of picture quality.

agree. Fire the guy. That is the craziest thing I ever heard. That is exactly why they invented lens shift, so you wouldn't have to do such a thing. How keystone correction works is by shrinking the image at the top down. so instead of 1920 pixels at the top it is say 1500. The next row down will be 1503 or such, etc. till it is 1920 at the bottom. The projector has to figure out how to squish the image to fit this way. It then shows black pixels outside the newly squished image. You can imagine there is no way this could be good.

Mine is shelf mounted just above the screen level.
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post #1103 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

That is good news. I have further questions though if you don't mind.
In the end, did you manage to get a real and noticeable improvement in convergence?
How was the overall quality of the picture after the alignment?
Can you confirm that you did first the 4 corners, then the inside of the frame?
How many positions did you correct inside the frame?
Is your projector ceiling mounted? If so, did you put it on its feet before the LCD alignment?
My screen is 116' 16/9. Do you recommend doing the procedure on a smaller portion of the screen?

Thanks for your help

It was a giant difference. My red was like 2 pixels off. I remote desktop to work a lot and before you could see colored fringing on letters very easily. It is perfect now. I just did the 4 outside corners and it was fine. It is high shelf mounted, just above the screen and to the right so I use a lot of lens shift. For sure get it mounted, shifted to position, and focused before you correct the alignment, it may shift while mounting and such.
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post #1104 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post

Pixel alignment (aka convergence) can result in blurred pictures. This has been noticed and stated by others on this and probably other forums. What many may not realize is that "perfect pixel alignment" on the Epson 5010/6010 usually results in a more blurred picture.

Epson 5010/6010 owners can easily see this for themselves. The two pictures below are blowups of the cross-hairs in the pixel alignment screen. I choose it because you can see single lines of pixels of just one color. However, if you look carefully, you can see the same effect on the lines as well.

The left-most picture is of red with 0 vertical and 0 horizontal offsets. It looks exactly like this, however, if you set in any multiple of 8. That is, -24, -16, -8, 0, 8, 16, and 24 offsets all produce the same single lines of pixels.

The picture to the right is with a vertical and horizontal offset of 4. Again, it looks exactly like this if you have any multiple of 8 (-20, -12, -4, 4, 12, and 20). Other values than these all result in some degree of double pixel blur.

Attachment 236921 Attachment 236922

The question is, which is more important, avoiding double pixel blur by using multiples of 8 values or ignoring that and getting best pixel alignment? If you don't use exact multiples of 8 you are lighting up two pixels so what is actually happening is that you are getting part of one red and blue pixel on one side of green and part of the second red and get pixel on the other side of green.

Therefore, as others have said before, you will have a sharper picture if you eliminate double pixel blur by only using exact multiples of 8. This goes for all grids including the corners. (I tested this hoping that the corners were an exception. No such luck.) The worst case if you use exact multiples of eight is that you will be off by half a pixel. If you are more than half a pixel, move to the other side of green by 8 counts and you will now be off less than half a pixel. Being off by at most half a pixel on one side is much better than being off on both sides which is what will happen if you use some value other than an exact multiple of 8.

Is the Epson 5010/6010 pixel alignment adjust feature useless? Being off at most a half-pixel at the grid points (it might get a little worse in-between) is certainly better than being off by 2 or more pixels which is not unusual in 3-panel projectors. It is not ideal but I doubt you can see the effect of 1/2 pixel misalignment at any normal viewing distance. Your 5 year old kid with 20/5 vision sitting 3' from the screen might.

In summary, if you want the sharpest picture from your Epson 5010/6010, only use pixel alignment offset values of -24, -16, -8, 0, 8, 16, and 24.

good info.


So if the pixel alignment is correct, you should see a perfect White Lines without color bleed on the side?
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post #1105 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 05:26 PM
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I don't have any crosshairs in my pixel alignement screen. I wonder if he has some other projector. It sounds like he is talking about some sort of digital pixel alignment. That would indeed be bad. Epson says the 5010 has motorized panel alignment. You should be able to exactly line up the lines. You can play with it by setting the Align color to red and pattern to R/G. Crank Red up and to the left and you will get a red grid and a green grid. You can move the red back on top of green. I don't see double lines like that picture. Just a solid yellowish line. I guess I could take a magnifying glass and verify, but it look plenty good to me.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/j...sku=V11H398020
"Amazingly sharp, crisp images — motorized pixel alignment"
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post #1106 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

I don't have any crosshairs in my pixel alignement screen. I wonder if he has some other projector. It sounds like he is talking about some sort of digital pixel alignment. That would indeed be bad. Epson says the 5010 has motorized panel alignment. You should be able to exactly line up the lines. You can play with it by setting the Align color to red and pattern to R/G. Crank Red up and to the left and you will get a red grid and a green grid. You can move the red back on top of green. I don't see double lines like that picture. Just a solid yellowish line. I guess I could take a magnifying glass and verify, but it look plenty good to me.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/j...sku=V11H398020
"Amazingly sharp, crisp images motorized pixel alignment"

If you do the last advance step, you will get this.
LL
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post #1107 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 06:47 PM
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The manual focus on my 5010 is driving me crazy. I might just all be in my head but I keep getting the itch that I'm always just slightly out of focus. I know most HD broadcasts are soft (compared to BR) but I must have mucked with focus 20 times in the 3 weeks I've had the PJ. The manual focus doesn't help either because I can't ever really get it dialed in perfect, the resolution of the dial just seems to move from extreme to extreme to quickly that I always feel like it's never perfect.

BAHHH!!!!
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post #1108 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 06:53 PM
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Thanks. I'll look into that store and find out some more details. I was hoping to find something closer than the East Coast so the projector wouldn't have to be bounced around in shipping 2000 miles. We have TheaterXtreme stores here in Utah, but they are selling the 6010 for around $4300. I'm not sure why some of their stores are selling it for $3500 while others are selling it for over 4K. Odd. Thanks for the tip though.
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post #1109 of 3384 Old 02-27-2012, 07:52 PM
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"If you do the last advance step, you will get this."
yes, that is not a red crosshair though, which that picture has.

and Yes, focusing sucks. So does the lens shift. I ended up calling them both close enough, without being quite right. It is still a ton sharper than my old panny 2000.
I have read to use binoculars to get the focus right. I might try that.
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post #1110 of 3384 Old 02-28-2012, 05:02 AM
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[quote=wnielsenbb;21706975]"If you do the last advance step, you will get this."
yes, that is not a red crosshair though, which that picture has.

QUOTE]

Ok, sorry, think I am confused...
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