Official Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5010 / 6010 thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace27 View Post

Right now I have a Mits HD1000 and am waiting for the bulb to go. I was thinking of getting a plasma due to the darkness in the PQ from the Mits. I 'm sure over the past few years the Pq of the new units is much better but would they rival that of a good plasma? Love the big screen in my room but want a plasma like picture. The reviews seem to be good for the 5010 and price isn't much more than a good plasma!

I just made this exact upgrade, coming directly from the Mits HD1000U to the 5010, so I'll try to summarize my experience thus far. My initial impression was actually disappointment because my Mits was definitely sharper and had perfect convergence, thanks to DLP, of course. I was able to fine tine the focus on the Epson, and spent about an hour figuring out how to get the LCD alignment to work without softening the image (another topic entirely). Now it's still not as sharp as my Mits, but it's close enough that I think I can live with it.

The good news is that the 5010 is better in all other regards. Contrast, brightness, skin tones are all decidedly better. Another thing the Mits lacked was 24fps input, and the difference is significant for film. The image looks far crisper and generally more stable when watching BD movies.

I'm still evaluating my purchase, but so far I would say that it was worth the upgrade. I was in the same position as you in that I let my last bulb die (bulb #3) and then took the plunge instead of replacing it. Another motivator for me was that the genuine Mits bulbs are getting progressively more expensive on the HD1000.
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post #242 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 09:23 AM
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Does anyone know how to adjust the 5010's 3D Depth? When I go to Menu > Signal > 3D Setup, the 3D Depth option is grey'ed out and I can't select it. I can select the other 3D options.

- David
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post #243 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post

Does anyone know how to adjust the 5010's 3D Depth? When I go to Menu > Signal > 3D Setup, the 3D Depth option is grey'ed out and I can't select it. I can select the other 3D options.

I believe that is only for 2D to 3D Conversion.
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post #244 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 09:41 AM
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Drhankz,

I thought that might be the case so I enabled 2D-to-3D Conversion but I still couldn't select 3D Depth. Have you been able to do that?

- David
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post #245 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 11:21 AM
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3D Depth is only available when the projector is in 3D mode.

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post #246 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post

Does anyone know how to adjust the 5010's 3D Depth? When I go to Menu > Signal > 3D Setup, the 3D Depth option is grey'ed out and I can't select it. I can select the other 3D options.

I asked the same question on the 3010,5010,6010 thread because I was wondering what it does and hadn't heard from any reviews if it makes 3d movies better or worse.
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post #247 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

My 8350 was only off a 1/2 pixel on the red as well but the green was off a 1/2 pixel as well.
Since Epson indicates the pixel alignment is motorized, I assume it's not done via software but it's actually moving the panel.
I guess we'll find out when someone does more research on this feature.

I spent a few hours playing with pixel alignment last night, and I'm increasingly sure that all adjustments are performed via software only. I was hoping that it was motorized because I've seen hints of this previously, but based on my observations I seriously doubt this is the case.

For what it's worth, I was able to determine that moving 8 horizontal increments is the equivalent of one pixel, at least while adjusting in the "four corners" mode. Haven't verified if this is also true for vertical adjustments, but I imagine it is.

I found that if you want to avoid introducing image softness, you must stick to adjusting in multiples of 8 and apply the same adjustment to all four corners. Otherwise the software starts interpolating the image and you end up with regions that alternate between sharp and soft. This effect is most pronounced when displaying vertical / horizontal lines or text.

On a final note, as others have mentioned the on-screen alignment guide refers to the corner locations incorrectly when adjusting in front-facing ceiling mode. Hopefully Epson will address this in a future firmware release, though it's not really a big issue once you recognize and account for it.
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post #248 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubob800 View Post

I spent a few hours playing with pixel alignment last night, and I'm increasingly sure that all adjustments are performed via software only. I was hoping that it was motorized because I've seen hints of this previously, but based on my observations I seriously doubt this is the case.

For what it's worth, I was able to determine that moving 8 horizontal increments is the equivalent of one pixel, at least while adjusting in the "four corners" mode. Haven't verified if this is also true for vertical adjustments, but I imagine it is.

I found that if you want to avoid introducing image softness, you must stick to adjusting in multiples of 8 and apply the same adjustment to all four corners. Otherwise the software starts interpolating the image and you end up with regions that alternate between sharp and soft. This effect is most pronounced when displaying vertical / horizontal lines or text.

On a final note, as others have mentioned the on-screen alignment guide refers to the corner locations incorrectly when adjusting in front-facing ceiling mode. Hopefully Epson will address this in a future firmware release, though it's not really a big issue once you recognize and account for it.

Thanks, granted I havent spent a lot of time yet, but I couldnt even figure out how to get into pixel alignment mode on my 5010e. It would be great if someone could post a video on youtube or elswhere describing the process and the potential pitfalls.
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post #249 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubob800 View Post

I just made this exact upgrade, coming directly from the Mits HD1000U to the 5010, so I'll try to summarize my experience thus far. My initial impression was actually disappointment because my Mits was definitely sharper and had perfect convergence, thanks to DLP, of course. I was able to fine tine the focus on the Epson, and spent about an hour figuring out how to get the LCD alignment to work without softening the image (another topic entirely). Now it's still not as sharp as my Mits, but it's close enough that I think I can live with it.

The good news is that the 5010 is better in all other regards. Contrast, brightness, skin tones are all decidedly better. Another thing the Mits lacked was 24fps input, and the difference is significant for film. The image looks far crisper and generally more stable when watching BD movies.

I'm still evaluating my purchase, but so far I would say that it was worth the upgrade. I was in the same position as you in that I let my last bulb die (bulb #3) and then took the plunge instead of replacing it. Another motivator for me was that the genuine Mits bulbs are getting progressively more expensive on the HD1000.

Hey ubob800 good to find sombody who did this upgrade. Can I ask you what screen you use. I'm using a DIY, on a 106" Wilsonart Designer White. The Picture on the Mits is ok, but it just seems to be a bit dark. Did you notice a change with the Epson on the image brightness over the Mits. Also was there much of a change in the 720p to the 1080p? Thanks
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post #250 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubob800 View Post

I spent a few hours playing with pixel alignment last night, and I'm increasingly sure that all adjustments are performed via software only. I was hoping that it was motorized because I've seen hints of this previously, but based on my observations I seriously doubt this is the case.

For what it's worth, I was able to determine that moving 8 horizontal increments is the equivalent of one pixel, at least while adjusting in the "four corners" mode. Haven't verified if this is also true for vertical adjustments, but I imagine it is.

I found that if you want to avoid introducing image softness, you must stick to adjusting in multiples of 8 and apply the same adjustment to all four corners. Otherwise the software starts interpolating the image and you end up with regions that alternate between sharp and soft. This effect is most pronounced when displaying vertical / horizontal lines or text.

On a final note, as others have mentioned the on-screen alignment guide refers to the corner locations incorrectly when adjusting in front-facing ceiling mode. Hopefully Epson will address this in a future firmware release, though it's not really a big issue once you recognize and account for it.

Hello,

I'm a French guy and have the Epson TW9000W, which is equivalent to the 5010e I guess. Where is the pixel alignment menu ? Is it in a hidden menu ? It isn't available on the european version

Thank you...
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post #251 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 03:34 PM
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I have decided on getting this projector. Will match it to a 135" 1.2 gain mat white screen and a 17' viewing distance.

Dave.

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I listen to 50% HT and 50% 2 channel music.
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post #252 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegmund011 View Post

Hello,

I'm a French guy and have the Epson TW9000W, which is equivalent to the 5010e I guess. Where is the pixel alignment menu ? Is it in a hidden menu ? It isn't available on the european version

Thank you...

Its equivalent on 6010 ... 5010 = 6000eu
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post #253 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 03:51 PM
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I received it an hour ago. For those who asked, you use a standard network cable to connect it to the PJ. Power, apparently, is supplied by the PJ.

Bill
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post #254 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace27 View Post

Hey ubob800 good to find sombody who did this upgrade. Can I ask you what screen you use. I'm using a DIY, on a 106" Wilsonart Designer White. The Picture on the Mits is ok, but it just seems to be a bit dark. Did you notice a change with the Epson on the image brightness over the Mits. Also was there much of a change in the 720p to the 1080p? Thanks

Funnily enough I'm running mine on a 106" screen also, it's a DaLite 1.0 gain flat-white vinyl. I also felt that the Mits was slightly dark (I ran in low bulb w/ Brilliant Color off mostly), and a little ambient light always washed the picture out.

There is no doubt that the Epson is brighter...currently I'm running it in eco-mode with dynamic iris off. In that mode I find that the black-level floor is approximately the same as the Mitsu, BUT the brightness is much brighter, I'd guestimate in the 60-70% range. In full-power mode the brightness kicks up another notch or so but I think it's actually too bright on a screen of my size.

The difference between 720p and 1080p is definitely source-relative. HDTV seems marginally improved, but there is a downside in that I notice more of the compression artifacts / image noise than I did on the Mits (my provider is ATT U-verse). In other words, it seems like the 720p was masking some of the image noise by virtue of its reduced pixel count.

On BD the difference is much more dramatic...there I definitely see the benefit of the 1080p. As an example, I can actually see the grain of the film on some movies, which I never once witnessed using the Mits. I bet this is partly due to the 24fps input too, but either way the net result is really amazing.

So far I've done all my viewing at night but tomorrow I plan on an NFL marathon so I'll see how it performs under ambient light. Also, I plan on doing some gaming / web browsing this weekend so I think that will be a good test of the sharpness too.
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post #255 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegmund011 View Post

Hello,

I'm a French guy and have the Epson TW9000W, which is equivalent to the 5010e I guess. Where is the pixel alignment menu ? Is it in a hidden menu ? It isn't available on the european version

Thank you...

Under the Extended menu, there should be LCD Alignment.

2014
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post #256 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubob800 View Post

Funnily enough I'm running mine on a 106" screen also, it's a DaLite 1.0 gain flat-white vinyl. I also felt that the Mits was slightly dark (I ran in low bulb w/ Brilliant Color off mostly), and a little ambient light always washed the picture out.

There is no doubt that the Epson is brighter...currently I'm running it in eco-mode with dynamic iris off. In that mode I find that the black-level floor is approximately the same as the Mitsu, BUT the brightness is much brighter, I'd guestimate in the 60-70% range. In full-power mode the brightness kicks up another notch or so but I think it's actually too bright on a screen of my size.

The difference between 720p and 1080p is definitely source-relative. HDTV seems marginally improved, but there is a downside in that I notice more of the compression artifacts / image noise than I did on the Mits (my provider is ATT U-verse). In other words, it seems like the 720p was masking some of the image noise by virtue of its reduced pixel count

On BD the difference is much more dramatic...there I definitely see the benefit of the 1080p. As an example, I can actually see the grain of the film on some movies, which I never once witnessed using the Mits. I bet this is partly due to the 24fps input too, but either way the net result is really amazing.

So far I've done all my viewing at night but tomorrow I plan on an NFL marathon so I'll see how it performs under ambient light. Also, I plan on doing some gaming / web browsing this weekend so I think that will be a good test of the sharpness too.

You will have to give a short review of the gaming lag you find and how it does with a bit of light on!! One last thing, like I said in my first post, with a good BD source would there be any sort of comparison to a plasma?
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post #257 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 06:13 PM
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You will have to give a short review of the gaming lag you find and how it does with a bit of light on!! One last thing, like I said in my first post, with a good BD source would there be any sort of comparison to a plasma?

Yes! Please do a Lag test for games, I would love to hear some more opinions on this with the 5010. This is my deciding factor between this and the Panasonic.
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post #258 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post

Drhankz,

I thought that might be the case so I enabled 2D-to-3D Conversion but I still couldn't select 3D Depth. Have you been able to do that?

drhankz is correct, the 3D Depth is only adjustable while using 2D to 3D conversion.

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post #259 of 3411 Old 12-23-2011, 09:22 PM
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I received it today. For those who asked, you use a standard network cable to connect it to the PJ. Power, apparently, is supplied by the PJ. I want my 3d emitters firing out from the bottom of the screen into the
viewing area and not bouncing off the screen. I found this site and ordered one from them. Epson does not show it available on their site.

http://www.adorama.com/IES3DIR.html?...point0Product1

Bill
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post #260 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Under the Extended menu, there should be LCD Alignment.

Unfortunately, there is no LCD Alignment under this menu in the european version
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post #261 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegmund011 View Post

Unfortunately, there is no LCD Alignment under this menu in the european version

Hi Siegmund011,

Are you sure european versions of the 5010/6010 (TW8000/9000) don't have LCL Alignment ?

Do you know any other differences between the different versions ?

Here in Australia the TW8000/9000 comes with 2 pairs of 3D glasses but I thought the machines themselves are identical.
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post #262 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by curiousmurf View Post

Hi Siegmund011,

Are you sure european versions of the 5010/6010 (TW8000/9000) don't have LCL Alignment ?

Do you know any other differences between the different versions ?

Here in Australia the TW8000/9000 comes with 2 pairs of 3D glasses but I thought the machines themselves are identical.

Hello,

In fact, LCD alignement is in a hidden menu... Unfortunately, I don't know how to show this menu at this time. On a french forum (HCFR), some retailers have the manipulation to do to access this menu, but Epson told them not to tell how to do

In the french version, we also have 2 pairs of 3D glasses with it. I also think that the machines are identical.
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post #263 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegmund011 View Post

Hello,

In fact, LCD alignement is in a hidden menu... Unfortunately, I don't know how to show this menu at this time. On a french forum (HCFR), some retailers have the manipulation to do to access this menu, but Epson told them not to tell how to do

In the french version, we also have 2 pairs of 3D glasses with it. I also think that the machines are identical.

Ok. So there is Lcd alignment (motorized pixel alignment) but it is in a hidden menu.

Thank You. I will look into this....
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post #264 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegmund011 View Post

Hello,

In fact, LCD alignement is in a hidden menu... Unfortunately, I don't know how to show this menu at this time. On a french forum (HCFR), some retailers have the manipulation to do to access this menu, but Epson told them not to tell how to do

In the french version, we also have 2 pairs of 3D glasses with it. I also think that the machines are identical.

It must be in the Service menu.

If anyone obtains the key sequence to access the Service menu, please PM me.
Don't post it in the forum or there may be some manufacturer outrage.

2014
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post #265 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studlygoorite View Post

drhankz is correct, the 3D Depth is only adjustable while using 2D to 3D conversion.

Does it work? Can you see a difference?
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post #266 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

It must be in the Service menu.

If anyone obtains the key sequence to access the Service menu, please PM me.
Don't post it in the forum or there may be some manufacturer outrage.

If anyone knows the key sequence to access the service menu PM it to me and I will post it in this thread. There is no reason to keep it a secret - national security will not be compromised.

Karl S.
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post #267 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

It must be in the Service menu.

If anyone obtains the key sequence to access the Service menu, please PM me.
Don't post it in the forum or there may be some manufacturer outrage.


Noticed that sharpness has dropped out of the blue on my Aussie 9000w version.
Also now starts of with a green tint and eventually colours restored but colours don't look as good as b4 . Aussie 9000 is the US 6010 except we have the 5010 body colour scheme. Will be giving Epson a call after XMas.
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post #268 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post

if anyone knows the key sequence to access the service menu pm it to me and i will post it in this thread. There is no reason to keep it a secret - national security will not be compromised.

+1
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post #269 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by studlygoorite
drhankz is correct, the 3D Depth is only adjustable while using 2D to 3D conversion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedg8gt View Post

Does it work? Can you see a difference?

I got 3D Depth to work, thanks. It wasn't enough to just switch it to 2D to 3D conversion in the menu. I had to actually be in that mode as drhankz stated above "while using 2D to 3D conversion".

As to wickedg8gt's questions, I can see a difference, yes. Does it work? Well, I wouldn't say it worked well enough to be enjoyable to me based on my brief viewing. For a few minutes I viewed a nature program on African wildlife, and briefly scanned through several channels, mostly in the Medium level. Most of the time the effect was subtle. To me it isn't worth the downsides of 3D. In the Strong mode the effect was bizarre. Sometimes the image was flat and sometimes stationary objects that had been in the background jumped out at me. The effect quickly made me nauseous. Maybe on other types of material the effect is more realistic.

- David
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post #270 of 3411 Old 12-24-2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topend View Post

I have decided on getting this projector. Will match it to a 135" 1.2 gain mat white screen and a 17' viewing distance.

Dave.

If you have a completely light controlled room, yes, it should be a good match for that screen for 2D especially if you mount the projector near the closest range where the lens is brighter. You will get around 19 ft-L on a new bulb if you mount the project near the mid-range of the lens with the lowest brightness Color Cinema/Natural modes and the bulb in the ECO (low brightness) mode. IMO, that's ideal.

3D will be OK but not nearly as bright. You'll certainly want a completely light controlled room in this case.

I have a 133" 2.0 gain screen (Da-Lite High Power) and my new Epson 5010 is much brighter than my older Sony SXRD projector (and has much better contrast and blacks). 3D brightness is OK but not great. My projector, however, is mounted near the far end of the lens' range so your 1.2 gain screen should be about the same if you mount the projector closer to the screen.

- David
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