Input Lag: A Scientific Experiment (Epson 8350, 3010, 5010 & more) - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 330 Old 03-23-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

It's 18ms.

Following up on this - I've read the whole thread (it took a couple days haha), but unless I missed it, I didn't see where the projector settings to attain the 18ms lag were posted. Is that info posted somewhere?
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post #302 of 330 Old 03-30-2012, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyPrice44 View Post

Sorry guys, I had some unexpected family stuff come up. I have not forgotten about the test. I am trying to get it done as soon as I get a chance.

Andy

Haven't had the chance yet or are u the biggest troll on this forum ?
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post #303 of 330 Old 03-30-2012, 12:08 PM
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Of course he's trolling. His ramblings are some of the most illogical on AVS!

Stick a fork in this thread - it's done.

=Tommy v2=
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post #304 of 330 Old 03-30-2012, 01:09 PM
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I have had a good bit of time to spend with the PT-AE7000U now and I'm completely satisfied with its gaming performance. The motion is smooth and the input lag is practically undetectable when using gaming mode. I actually will only use gaming mode in particular games where fast response is an absolute necessity. In many games like RPG's, horror games, or slower single-player FPS games I will use my standard settings which are based on the Rec709 setting. Even with that the input lag is acceptable for these kinds of titles and, most importantly to me, the motion is good. Almost everything about the projector feels polished and high quality. The W6000 was very rough around the edges and this projector goes in a totally different direction. I do have some other issues with the PT-AE7000U that I am working through, much of them 3D related, but I am done with my search for a good gaming projector and that is the most important thing to me. I can now consider my IN76 properly replaced. What a relief.
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post #305 of 330 Old 03-30-2012, 01:30 PM
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I was just about to hit the purchase button for the epson when I started reading about it lag issues.

I had it all figured out so I thought.

I might go for a benq w7000 now. Biggest difference out of favor for the benq seems to be slightly worse black levels but i can live with that knowing I can use my xbox off and on on it without lagging. Gaming is about entartainment, not worrying and cursing.

Other projectors of note are of course Panasonic and Sonys hw30. They are however a deal more expensive than both benq and epson at the moment where I live so that how it is with that.

I am however saddened by the fact that most releases except Epson and also to some extent JVC are older models updated with 3d and touch more brightness for handling the latter. We're paying a lot of money for this experimental hoogieboogie, in fact in 2d theres very little / no difference between w6000 and w7000, sony hw20 and hw30 and Pana 4000/7000
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post #306 of 330 Old 03-30-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Spin View Post

I am however saddened by the fact that most releases except Epson and also to some extent JVC are older models updated with 3d and touch more brightness for handling the latter. We're paying a lot of money for this experimental hoogieboogie, in fact in 2d theres very little / no difference between w6000 and w7000, sony hw20 and hw30 and Pana 4000/7000

I don't see how the Epson doesn't fall into the same category. It got the exact same panel upgrade the Panasonic did (Panasonic uses the same Epson D9 panels), a new case, and 3D. That pretty much describes the difference between both Epson's 8700UB and 5010 and Panasonic's AE4000 and AE7000. For both the 3D projectors their 2D performance is similar to that of their predecessors. The W7000 obviously looks very much like the W6000. Pretty much all of these projectors offer the 2D of the units they are replacing with 3D added on.

Given the choice between the 5010 and the PT-AE7000 I obviously wouldn't choose the Epson as a gamer. Removing that from the equation you have the Panasonic with its remote controlled zoom and focus as well as lens memory and a more natural image versus the 5010 with its higher contrast, an advantage in black levels (though I would contend it is not as big an advantage as some make out), and a more processed image that tends to really pop on colorful scenes. When it comes to 3D I think the brightness of the Epson is a big factor because the picture really looks dark when using 3D. When I'm using it I can't help but feel that it is a feature that is not yet ready for prime time.
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post #307 of 330 Old 04-01-2012, 04:06 PM
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just to throw a stone into the mix, but the Mitsu 7800 is a great gaming projector too. If you are not sensitive to rainbows
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post #308 of 330 Old 04-03-2012, 09:39 AM
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Anyone know what the lag on an Epson 7500ub is? Also would it even be worth it as far as picture quality to buy a used one vs a newer projector?
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post #309 of 330 Old 04-04-2012, 03:41 PM
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In all honesty, I think the lag being reported on the Epson 3010 is Not as bad as being reported. We game on xbox live all the time with the 3010. Games like Halo, COD AND battlefield 3 with what appears be minimal to no noticeable lag. I'm not saying there isn't any because the only "test" I ran was to just play xbox live on the 3010 and see how it goes. For me and my K/D ratio crazy son, it plays just as good as our plasma or RPTV. I see no reason to eliminate the 3010 as a gaming projector.

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post #310 of 330 Old 04-04-2012, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown Fan View Post

In all honesty, I think the lag being reported on the Epson 3010 is Not as bad as being reported. We game on xbox live all the time with the 3010. Games like Halo, COD AND battlefield 3 with what appears be minimal to no noticeable lag. I'm not saying there isn't any because the only "test" I ran was to just play xbox live on the 3010 and see how it goes. For me and my K/D ratio crazy son, it plays just as good as our plasma or RPTV. I see no reason to eliminate the 3010 as a gaming projector.

lol the Epson 3010 is one of the worst gaming projectors you can buy and has been confirmed to have 100ms lag!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...068844&page=14

You must be used to playing on laggy displays, BUT, COD, Battlefield etc is not a game where you would be able to notice lag much anyhow.

Fighting games, such as Street fighter 4, Tekken dr, Tekken tag 2, Tekken 6 on a competitive level would be unplayable with 100ms lag, heck one punch in Tekken is 128ms.
Other games which would be heavily affected by lag would be rhythm games such as Guitar hero and Rockband
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post #311 of 330 Old 04-04-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bboy_jonno View Post

lol the Epson 3010 is one of the worst gaming projectors you can buy and has been confirmed to have 100ms lag!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...068844&page=14

You must be used to playing on laggy displays, BUT, COD, Battlefield etc is not a game where you would be able to notice lag much anyhow.

Fighting games, such as Street fighter 4, Tekken dr, Tekken tag 2, Tekken 6 on a competitive level would be unplayable with 100ms lag, heck one punch in Tekken is 128ms.
Other games which would be heavily affected by lag would be rhythm games such as Guitar hero and Rockband

Anyways....
There is NO LAG on plasma or RPTVs tool...
I'm telling you from FIRST hand experience how the 3010 games, not how a meter measured it! who ran this test and what were the conditions of said test. Mine are Real world test and not relying on a meter or what ever was used. I'll Flat promise you its NO where near 100ms lmao.. as evidenced by my +7000 K/D ratio in halo reach on xbox live. Which you reminded me, we also play rockband, GH and mostly (music game wise) rocksmith, again with no noticeable lag, at least not enough to change the game play. Maybe you've never used the 3010 for gaming and just acting like a parrot with what you've read about it. I think who ever conducted this test had majorly flawed conditions and equipment.

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post #312 of 330 Old 04-05-2012, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown Fan View Post

Anyways....
There is NO LAG on plasma or RPTVs tool...
I'm telling you from FIRST hand experience how the 3010 games, not how a meter measured it! who ran this test and what were the conditions of said test. Mine are Real world test and not relying on a meter or what ever was used. I'll Flat promise you its NO where near 100ms lmao.. as evidenced by my +7000 K/D ratio in halo reach on xbox live. Which you reminded me, we also play rockband, GH and mostly (music game wise) rocksmith, again with no noticeable lag, at least not enough to change the game play. Maybe you've never used the 3010 for gaming and just acting like a parrot with what you've read about it. I think who ever conducted this test had majorly flawed conditions and equipment.

And who exactly are you, Mr. Anecdotal Expert? There's lag on any type of display device! There are lots of plasmas with abysmal lag.

Your Epson 3010 has the worst lag of any projector on the market. If you're fine with it, good for you! You obviously haven't used a fast setup before. Go try an Epson 8350 and tell me you don't notice how awesomely fast it is... if you played Guitar Hero on it, you'd be totally tripped up by how responsive it is compared to what you're used to.

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post #313 of 330 Old 04-05-2012, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

And who exactly are you, Mr. Anecdotal Expert? There's lag on any type of display device! There are lots of plasmas with abysmal lag.

Your Epson 3010 has the worst lag of any projector on the market. If you're fine with it, good for you! You obviously haven't used a fast setup before. Go try an Epson 8350 and tell me you don't notice how awesomely fast it is... if you played Guitar Hero on it, you'd be totally tripped up by how responsive it is compared to what you're used to.

I actually have the very same qualifications as you do... Maybe more because I own and use a 3010 everyday on xbox live. I'm sure there are plasma tvs with bad lag but their 10 years old or very very cheap sets. I feel like I'm in the gaming section with a bunch of Friggen kids in here fighting who's gonna pown who... I'm terribly sorry I even spoke up with what was CLEARLY expressed as My Own Opinion! It won't happen again. Sorry I even bothered to try as you obviously are Way more intelligent then me and are the master of this thread... Enjoy talking to yourself.

P.S. I bought the 8350 first, black levels sucked on it and exchanged it for the 3010.

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post #314 of 330 Old 04-05-2012, 10:42 PM
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Guys, let's take it down a notch and get back to the thread's namesake of scientific experiments and hard data. Opinions and anecdotal feelings are not dismissed, but must take a back seat to measured facts. I for one really appreciate the work that some folks have done in measuring their projectors for lag. Keep 'em coming!
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post #315 of 330 Old 04-06-2012, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Miller View Post

Guys, let's take it down a notch and get back to the thread's namesake of scientific experiments and hard data. Opinions and anecdotal feelings are not dismissed, but must take a back seat to measured facts. I for one really appreciate the work that some folks have done in measuring their projectors for lag. Keep 'em coming!

I couldn't agree more! In my OP I was nothing but nice and explained my experience using a 3010 on xbox live. Not Once was I asked how I came to those conclusions or under what settings/inputs on either my projector or xbox I used to come to such conclusions, instead... I was flat out attacked. Maybe I stumbled across something that could make the lag better. I was trying to offer my opinion and help....

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post #316 of 330 Old 04-06-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown Fan View Post

I couldn't agree more! In my OP I was nothing but nice and explained my experience using a 3010 on xbox live. Not Once was I asked how I came to those conclusions or under what settings/inputs on either my projector or xbox I used to come to such conclusions, instead... I was flat out attacked. Maybe I stumbled across something that could make the lag better. I was trying to offer my opinion and help....

So... do you have any hard data?
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post #317 of 330 Old 04-06-2012, 04:52 PM
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Anyone tested the 7500ub?
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post #318 of 330 Old 04-10-2012, 06:28 AM
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Guys, I had a death in the family and projectors and AV stuff went to the back burner. I log back on here and see nothing but condescending talk and people calling me a troll. This thread rubbed me the wrong way from the start. I don't want to take the time to setup and run test for a bunch of people who do nothing but talk down on other members here. I belong to alot of other forums and this one by far is the most insulting place to spend time. I don't know you people or give a **** about you or what you think. Just keep sitting behind those keyboards and being internet tough guys. Last post I will ever make here....
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post #319 of 330 Old 04-11-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyPrice44 View Post

Guys, I had a death in the family and projectors and AV stuff went to the back burner. I log back on here and see nothing but condescending talk and people calling me a troll. This thread rubbed me the wrong way from the start. I don't want to take the time to setup and run test for a bunch of people who do nothing but talk down on other members here. I belong to alot of other forums and this one by far is the most insulting place to spend time. I don't know you people or give a **** about you or what you think. Just keep sitting behind those keyboards and being internet tough guys. Last post I will ever make here....

Ok, I started reading this thread from the beginning and reading your posts and the crowds dismissal I actually personally gave you the benefit of the doubt. And eagerly awaited your new post.

However, having read your pre-excuses over and over in a span of several months time and now reading your latest post....

Put yourself in us reading the content here. Not all of us just scroll up and down, we give a damn !

just dont bother anyone with intricate and elaborate findings if u dont care to deliver any sort of verification. That's trolling no matter the excuse.
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post #320 of 330 Old 04-11-2012, 12:26 PM
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Of course he's trolling, and now he's sore about getting caught. He came to AVS forums and forgot to bring the S...

=Tommy v2=
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post #321 of 330 Old 04-12-2012, 03:30 PM
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Real tests are needed for this, not some BS anecdotal evidence.

I have a LG plasma tv that I play games on regularly. Most games I'm fine with. When I got an optoma GT750 projector which was tested as having no lag

http://www.projectorreviews.com/game...projector.html

Strangely I sucked at the games I was playing normally before, and then I got used to it and the plasma tv seemed weird and a teensy bit out of synch. Your brain does get used to some lag. I was playing Mike Tyson's punchout on my computer the other night and there was some serious delay issues with the left D-pad button, I was still able to play up to the Great Tiger by pressing buttons early in anticipation. Alas the great tiger was too much for my screwy controller and I couldn't block his special punches with the delay.

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post #322 of 330 Old 04-13-2012, 11:47 AM
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I have now actually ended up purchasing a projector.

Mi first one, its a sharp xv-17000. Not too much discussion around it but there doesn't seem to be too much hassle around either.

Picture wise its fine when reviewed, seems to be somewhere in between pt4000 and the Sony HW20.

I'm moving soon so I'll set it up correctly then, it has however a "game" mode, which is appreciated I wonder how it will lag, having played fifa on the box for 30 Min I didn't notice anything but that means as much as a flie on a pile of **** considering my experience.

I will try to do the tests made here with hopefully some guidance from u if u care. Ill do normal setting and game and see if its any different and apart from that a score for this sharp projector which can be compared to other models.

Sometime in june though i will have it installed. Around the Eurocup
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post #323 of 330 Old 04-13-2012, 12:51 PM
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I've read through a bunch of this thread but have a bit of a different question. I already have a JVC X70 projector for everything but gaming. I would like to have a gaming projector with minimal lag for around $1000.00 The 16:9 area of my Scope Carada BW screen is about 120" diagonal and it's in a cave with no ambient light. Mounting distance is about 17ft. Not looking for a killer image but bright enough to fill that screen and with minimal lag. No 3D or Scope capabilities are required.
Anything out there to fill that bill?
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post #324 of 330 Old 04-13-2012, 02:18 PM
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Optoma gt700 can be found for around 570 or refurb for under 500.

http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.a...j&tab=descript

Biggest issues would be 720p (though most games are 720p), and placement flexibility. Namely, there is very little flexibility. It is short throw so it'd be in front of your other projector, but since your screen is already installed you'd have to make sure that the offset isn't too much or too little at 120inches. Also it's dlp and it probably shares the 2X wheel with the gt720 and 750 projectors so if you're sensitive to RBE then this would not be a good choice.

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post #325 of 330 Old 04-13-2012, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyen78 View Post

Optoma gt700 can be found for around 570 or refurb for under 500.

http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.a...j&tab=descript

Biggest issues would be 720p (though most games are 720p), and placement flexibility. Namely, there is very little flexibility. It is short throw so it'd be in front of your other projector, but since your screen is already installed you'd have to make sure that the offset isn't too much or too little at 120inches. Also it's dlp and it probably shares the 2X wheel with the gt720 and 750 projectors so if you're sensitive to RBE then this would not be a good choice.

Would the 750 be a better choice? Would it handle a 17ft throw? Really no way to mount anything in front of the JVC.
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post #326 of 330 Old 04-16-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt5094 View Post

Would the 750 be a better choice? Would it handle a 17ft throw? Really no way to mount anything in front of the JVC.

GT750 is the newer version. If you want 3D, then get the 750. If you have absolutely no plans for 3D then the 720 and 700 are very similar.

No you can't do a 17 ft throw with it or any short throw projector, it's simply too far. The short throw optoma gt projectors at 17 ft away will produce a picture that is 334 in diagonal, with an offset of 22inches.

If you can't put the projector in front of the other one you have, then you can't use short throw projectors.

If you don't have horizontal lens shift options on either projectors, one will have to go in front of the other and if you don't have vertical shift either, it might be a real pain to figure out how to set up everything.

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post #327 of 330 Old 02-25-2013, 09:21 AM
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Ok, so I know this article is old, but I have a question: How much does the normal TV have of lag in MS? I have a 3010 and am returning it because I can't stand the lag, so will I see that same sort of thing with the 8350? Thanks!
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post #328 of 330 Old 02-25-2013, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potpotsie View Post

Ok, so I know this article is old, but I have a question: How much does the normal TV have of lag in MS? I have a 3010 and am returning it because I can't stand the lag, so will I see that same sort of thing with the 8350? Thanks!
I bought the 8350 because I didn't want to deal with the lag of the 3010. I have no issues with lag, and I game on it frequently.

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post #329 of 330 Old 02-25-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by URPREY View Post

I bought the 8350 because I didn't want to deal with the lag of the 3010. I have no issues with lag, and I game on it frequently.

Same here. I really wanted the 3010 but wasn't willing to take the gamble with its reportedly high lag. From everything I've read, the 8350 has very low lag and I put my money on it. Loving every minute of it!
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post #330 of 330 Old 02-05-2014, 03:09 AM
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Hi guys,

 

Just received my 8350 and I want to use it mainly for gaming. I am in the process of finding the optimal settings for the lowest possible lag so I would be grateful if someone could help summarize those settings just to have them for reference. I guess they can be applied to any projector.

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