New Epson 8350: No HDMI signal? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 12-23-2011, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I just bought a new Epson 8350. I ceiling mounted it, connected my 30 foot HDMI cable from my receiver to the projector. When I turned it on it says "no HDMI 1 signal found".

I troubleshot the set up, all cables are snug, etc.

I then tried a different HDMI cable and connected my laptop followed by my Xbox to this 20 foot HDMI cable -- the projector showed the images brilliantly.

Could the 30 foot HDMI cable either be defective (it's a new cable I bought from monoprice.com) OR could the HDMI cable be too long to send a decent signal to the projector from the receiver?

anyone have any ideas on what I should do?

appreciate it
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post #2 of 26 Old 12-23-2011, 10:03 PM
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I can't help with your particular situation, but I can say that I'm running a 25' 24awg HDMI cable to a HDMI coupler to a 15' 24awg HDMI cable from my AVR to my 6500ub. Both my cables and the coupler are from monoprice. Additionally, I initially had a 50' 22awg cable hooked up before I realized it was way too long. Both setups work fine.
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post #3 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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The cable i am using which appears to be defective is:


30ft 24AWG CL2 Standard Speed w/ Ethernet HDMI Cable - Black

should I have ordered another cable?
Projector Epson 3850
Pioneer receiver (last year's model)


any advice would be very helpful. The cable is now buried behind drywall... took me forever to get it there.. the last thing I want to do ishave to fish it out and put another cable in its place

please help, thanks
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post #4 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 08:14 AM
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That's too bad. It needs to be a high speed cable.

Get their inexpensive "equalizer" to see if you can salvage this situation without ripping the cable out or going wireless:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

or a fancier one might help too:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Both will require a very short HDMI male-male cable to go to the projector, the fancy one also requires a 5v power supply which is not included.

I used the cheap one between a 35 foot and 15 foot cable, but both are high speed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafart View Post

The cable i am using which appears to be defective is:


30ft 24AWG CL2 Standard Speed w/ Ethernet HDMI Cable - Black

should I have ordered another cable?
Projector Epson 3850
Pioneer receiver (last year's model)


any advice would be very helpful. The cable is now buried behind drywall... took me forever to get it there.. the last thing I want to do ishave to fish it out and put another cable in its place

please help, thanks

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post #5 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafart View Post

The cable i am using which appears to be defective is:


30ft 24AWG CL2 Standard Speed w/ Ethernet HDMI Cable - Black

should I have ordered another cable?
Projector Epson 3850
Pioneer receiver (last year's model)


any advice would be very helpful. The cable is now buried behind drywall... took me forever to get it there.. the last thing I want to do ishave to fish it out and put another cable in its place

please help, thanks

You might have got the wrong cable.

You got this
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...#specification

But you probably need this
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...#specification


Not sure if HDMI w/Ethernet is different than HDMI standard.
Give monoprice a call and find out.

2014
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post #6 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 09:51 AM
 
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Use a signal restorer, Ethereal and Spectrum Electronics make god ones but are not cheap. You can try the cheap ones at monoprice and if it works great. But sometimes cheap is just that.
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post #7 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

You might have got the wrong cable.

You got this
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...#specification

But you probably need this
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...#specification


Not sure if HDMI w/Ethernet is different than HDMI standard.
Give monoprice a call and find out.

Except for the net jacket listed in the specs, I'm not sure I see a single difference between those cables.

FWIW, I actually have the 25' non net version and the 15' net version. I obviously couldn't tell the difference when I ordered them months apart.
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post #8 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, frustrated with my projector problems I took another stab at it. The problem is more complex than I thought. Bear with me... I had done a lot of trouble shooting.

Projo: Epson 8350 (brand new)
Receiver: Pioneer VSX-921-k (brand new)
Xbox
test Acer laptop
test Acer 23" computer monitor (cheap, old crappy, has HDMI input)
30ft 24AWG CL2 Standard Speed w/ Ethernet HDMI Cable - Black (in drywall - from Monoprice)
20ft 24AWG CL2 Standard Speed w/ Ethernet HDMI Cable - Black (testing - from Monoprice)



---
The Desired Setup: Projo ceiling mounted at the back of the media room. Receiver, Xbox, other inputs at the front left of the room. I fished a 30 foot monoprice HDMI cable which is supposed to connect the receiver to the projector.


---
Problem:

When connecting the 30 foot HDMI cable to receiver and projector (using both the projector HDMI1 and HDMI2 ports) the respective errors: "Source: HDMI 1 No Signal" and "Source: HDMI2 No Signal" display from the projector.


---
Troubleshoot 1: Xbox and 2nd Monoprice HDMI cable (20 foot).
Direct Xbox and 20 foot monoprice HDMI connection to projector displays Xbox pictures using both Projector HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 ports.

Troubleshoot 2: crappy Acer laptop and 2nd Monoprice cable (20 foot)
Direct laptop and 20 foot monoprice HDMI connection to projector shows laptop desktop perfectly. Both projector HDMI 1 and 2 ports work with the laptop and 20 foot cable.

Conclusion: Projector isn't the problem.


---
Troubleshoot 3: connect buried behind drywall 30 foot monoprice HDMI cable to Xbox and crappy Acer 23" old computer monitor. Xbox displays on the computer monitor. This is a direct connection between the Xbox and the computer monitor using the 30 foot HDMI cable.


Conclusion: 30 ft monoprice hdmi cable isnt the problem


---

Troubleshoot 4: xbox to receiver to projo
xbox hdmi connected to pioneer receiver hdmi input - (you can hear the xbox UI sounds so it is connected correctly to the receiver) - a short hdmi cable from another store was used here
30 foot monoprice hdmi cable is connected from the pioneer receiver OUT port to either HDMI 1 or 2 ports on the projector: "No Signal" for either Source


Troubleshoot 5: xbox to receiver to computer monitor

xbox hdmi to pioneer receiver hdmi connection (definitely connected because can hear xbox UI sounds with controlling joystick)
30 foot hdmi cable from pioneer receiver hdmi OUT connected to HDMI in for computer monitor
Xbox images shows up on the computer monitor and works well

Conclusion: 30 ft monoprice hdmi cable isnt the problem

so what is the problem???

can someone explain to me what is going on here?
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post #9 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 01:44 PM
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Is it possible you damaged the cable behind the drywall somehow? Like I said, I'm running a 6500ub which I've got to imagine has pretty similar if not worse inputs and both a 50' single and a coupled 40' both work perfectly. So I don't think it's necessarily cable length. Plus, I read tons of reviews before I purchased and there's a lot of people using runs over 30'. I was really worried about 50' and 40' not working.
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post #10 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubwerks View Post

Is it possible you damaged the cable behind the drywall somehow? Like I said, I'm running a 6500ub which I've got to imagine has pretty similar if not worse inputs and both a 50' single and a coupled 40' both work perfectly. So I don't think it's necessarily cable length. Plus, I read tons of reviews before I purchased and there's a lot of people using runs over 30'. I was really worried about 50' and 40' not working.

if the 30 ft HDMI cable is damaged then troubleshoot #3 shouldn't work...

any other ideas?
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post #11 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 03:52 PM
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I don't think you were done with #3 when I posted.
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post #12 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 06:42 PM
 
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You can't troubleshoot the same way you do analog. Your logic is fine just not applicable to digital signaling. Your problem is the cable!

I've said this many times before on this forum, test all your equipment with short cables (2m or less). Set up your system like you normally would just using short cables. I know it can be a pain to temporarily move the projector close to the components but could save a lot of time. If it works with short cables and not long ones the problem is the cable, period!

It doesn't matter if some devices work with that cable and others don't. You have a signaling problem. HDMI has a small amount of variance in its specs and it is very easy for one device to be more tolerant of an out of spec signal than another.

It would be prudent to use a device as mentioned before to bring the signal back into spec or use another solution for long HDMI runs such as a fibre optic or Cat5 baluns.

If the system doesn't work with short cables, then it is time to start swapping components to find the problem piece. It could be a bad short cable but that is less common.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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post #13 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

You can't troubleshoot the same way you do analog. Your logic is fine just not applicable to digital signaling. Your problem is the cable!

I've said this many times before on this forum, test all your equipment with short cables (2m or less). Set up your system like you normally would just using short cables. I know it can be a pain to temporarily move the projector close to the components but could save a lot of time. If it works with short cables and not long ones the problem is the cable, period!

It doesn't matter if some devices work with that cable and others don't. You have a signaling problem. HDMI has a small amount of variance in its specs and it is very easy for one device to be more tolerant of an out of spec signal than another.

It would be prudent to use a device as mentioned before to bring the signal back into spec or use another solution for long HDMI runs such as a fibre optic or Cat5 baluns.

If the system doesn't work with short cables, then it is time to start swapping components to find the problem piece. It could be a bad short cable but that is less common.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Thank you everyone for your replies so far... this saga isn't over yet. I will post my progress.

BobL I took your advice and unmounted the projector and brought it closer to the other components. I tried my 20 foot monoprice HDMI cable (xbox to receiver via HDMI and then receiver to projector via 20 ft HDMI) and it works!

You were right! Going from 20ft HDMI cable to 30ft HDMI cable has killed the signal.

So based on what you and other were saying my options now are:

1) keep the 30 foot cable and purchase a signal booster -- I have to learn/read about these
2) "fibre optic or Cat5 baluns" <-- BobL suggested this, can you explain these solutions with my current setup? Are these just two additional cables that I can use instead of my HDMI cable but terminate with HDMI terminators?


furthermore, is this the Spectrum website?
http://www.spectrumelectronicsolutions.com/ <-- pretty old school looking, they are based in FLA, I am in Vancouver, Canada

What's the Ethereal website? Is this the place you are referring to?
http://www.etherealhometheater.com/

can you suggest actual boosters? (model #'s) that you have had good experience with that would work with my setup? thanks a tonne!






which solution is best? all of this is new to me and over my head... please assist/educate

Merry Xmas everyone!
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post #14 of 26 Old 12-24-2011, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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if I am reading correctly, this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

doesnt boost the signal, it just lets you connect to HDMI cables together... does nothing for my problem, correct?
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post #15 of 26 Old 12-25-2011, 07:29 AM
 
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Both those websites are correct.

Spectrum electronic Solutions: Model # DSR701++ MSRP $199

Ethereal Home Theater: Model HDM-SR1A MSRP $399 or Model HDM-SR1HS MSRP ???.

Both can be found for less with a little searching.

A balun stands for balanced/unbalanced and is a converter between those types of signals. However the term balun has become the term for almost any type of converter nowadays. With a Balun you will have a short HDMI cable going to a small powered box, the box will convert the signal to either a Cat5, coax or fibre optic. Near the projector will be another small box which converts the signal back to HDMI where you will use another short HDMI cable.

For your length a Cat5 or Cat6 balun would be fine and is the least expensive balun solution. The companies mentioned also make high quality baluns. The restorer might be easier for you if the wires are already run and would be a pain to change. If you use the restorer it usually works best when placed near the projector side, but you can try it near your equipment if that is easier to see if it works.

For long runs than I'd go fibre which is more expensive. The companies I mentioned design and make their products in the US. They are actually desinged by the same expert with minor differences. They are not cheap chinese knock offs that have mixed results.

Hope this helps.

Merry Christmas!
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post #16 of 26 Old 12-25-2011, 09:52 AM
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I simply don't know if I buy that logic or not. There has to be a point where the signal will not pass with a longer cable. Testing it with a 2m cable isn't going to tell me where the limitation is with my cable in regards to length.

I've had problems with 6' cable before where switching the cable to another 6' piece worked fine. Your troubleshooting certainly wouldn't have solved for that.
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post #17 of 26 Old 12-25-2011, 02:33 PM
 
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That is why we use cables that have passed DPL Labs testing and keep to 2m or under for testing. It is certainly possible to have a bad short cable it is just not as common as longer lengths. Because with longer lengths bandwidth becomes more critical. In fact lowering resolution is another way of testing, like the OP 30' cable might work at 480 but not at 1080.

Unfortunately with HDMI there is not any reasonably priced test equipment and it only leaves trial and error for the consumer to determine which component or cable is the problem. We know from testing with expensive equipment that more problems happen with longer lengths but believe me that isn't the only HDMI problem:-)

Good cables have always made a difference in signaling. The difference with digital is once a signal is degrade too much you no longer have a picture. With analog if the picture was degraded to say 950P few would notice.
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post #18 of 26 Old 12-25-2011, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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BobL, what do you think my chances are if I first tried one of the $12 cheaper solutions from monoprice? either the extender or the plug-in repeater?

think one of them will work? if so which has the higher chance of working? (I want to try the cheaper solutions first before I drop $200)
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post #19 of 26 Old 12-25-2011, 07:11 PM
 
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It doesn't hurt to try especially since it can easily be changed if it doesn't work. I am not sure what it equalizes but it probably refers to capacitance and by the description it appears to be a set amount of capacitance. So if your issue is capacitance and off near that amount then it will work. Being powered by the HDMI port might cause other problems. It is a crapshoot.

A better device corrects for a number of problems. They sense voltage and capacitance and apply the correct amount of each to restore the signal. They also re-clock and adjust timing errors. They are powered by their own power supply, when power to the device is from the HDMI bus you might be robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak.

It is worth a try. The only thing you are giving up is time if it doesn't work.
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post #20 of 26 Old 12-27-2011, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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After more failed attempts I have given up on HDMI OUT from this fricking receiver to the projector. I have run component cables as my video OUT from the receiver to the projector.



Now another problem needs to be tackled. Whether I connect my Xbox 360 to the receiver via HDMI or via composite (yellow/red/white) I can get audio but can't get any video. Anyone know how to solve this problem?

I started a separate thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=21404234

This media room setup has officially ruined my Xmas.. I am so frustrated right now...
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post #21 of 26 Old 12-27-2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafart View Post

After more failed attempts I have given up on HDMI OUT from this fricking receiver to the projector. I have run component cables as my video OUT from the receiver to the projector.



Now another problem needs to be tackled. Whether I connect my Xbox 360 to the receiver via HDMI or via composite (yellow/red/white) I can get audio but can't get any video. Anyone know how to solve this problem?

I started a separate thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=21404234

This media room setup has officially ruined my Xmas.. I am so frustrated right now...

Hi , dont think its the Pioneer . You said that worked fine with a 20ft cable to projector
correct ? You may want to try a splitter ( 4 in 2 out )run one to the projector itself for video and the second short one out to receiver for the HD codecs.
Sorry to hear about all your frustration that SUCKS ! ! !
PS - my Pioneer 92THX works fine with a long monoprice cable to my 8350 but it may not be a 30 footer possibly 25 I think.

Tom O.

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post #22 of 26 Old 12-27-2011, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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mcmountainman, can you elaborate on this splitter?

can you show me a link to a splitter you would suggest?

what is "4 in 2 out"??? I dont fully understand this, can you please explain more (or can anyone explain this solution more for me please?)
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post #23 of 26 Old 12-27-2011, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Monoprice got back to me explaining why the 30 foot cable from the receiver to the projector isn't giving a signal.

Quote from Monoprice:
"you are actually using a 24awg cables for the 30ft run. For any run past 20ft, we actually highly recommend using 22awg. On the fact you are running through an a/v receiver, this is also causing an issue as the gauge is not correct. What will fix the issue is using a 22awg 30ft cable."

do you guys agree with this? should I try the 22awg for a 30ft run?
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post #24 of 26 Old 12-27-2011, 08:15 PM
 
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No 30 foot cable has passed HDMI high speed spec yet. A better cable might work if your sources are Blu-ray and TV as these devices use less than half of max HDMI high speed bandwidth. If you are using an HTPC and want 1080P/120(60fps x2 for 3D) or higher bandwidth formats now or in the future then skip the better cable and use a solution designed for high speed at that distance. Currently, I would use a Cat5 solution and if you are not proficient at terminating cat5 cable then buy a pre-made one.

If you want an easy fix and not have to snake any more wire through the wall then try the signal restorer mentioned previously.
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post #25 of 26 Old 12-30-2011, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafart View Post

Monoprice got back to me explaining why the 30 foot cable from the receiver to the projector isn't giving a signal.

Quote from Monoprice:
"you are actually using a 24awg cables for the 30ft run. For any run past 20ft, we actually highly recommend using 22awg. On the fact you are running through an a/v receiver, this is also causing an issue as the gauge is not correct. What will fix the issue is using a 22awg 30ft cable."

do you guys agree with this? should I try the 22awg for a 30ft run?

i had the exact same problem as you...got the epson 8350 going to my vsx1021. got the HDMI cable that supports a transfer up to 10GBps usually the cable that supports the 3D TVs and it worked perfect!

i can't post links yet but go to mountdirect.com and look for SKU: 76060.

this is the exact one i just got today and plugged in.. My xbox360 and ps3 work perfect....thank gawd!! my holidays were sucking as well...hope this helps!
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post #26 of 26 Old 12-30-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafart View Post

Monoprice got back to me explaining why the 30 foot cable from the receiver to the projector isn't giving a signal.

Quote from Monoprice:
"you are actually using a 24awg cables for the 30ft run. For any run past 20ft, we actually highly recommend using 22awg. On the fact you are running through an a/v receiver, this is also causing an issue as the gauge is not correct. What will fix the issue is using a 22awg 30ft cable."

do you guys agree with this? should I try the 22awg for a 30ft run?

I did a lot of research on HDMI cables before I purchased - I needed a 40' cable. To summarize my research: a category 1 (i.e. not High Speed) may or may not work as a high speed cable - it depends on one's equipment, and the quality of the HDMI cable.

I bought a 40 foot 24AWG Tartan HDMI category 1 cable (a BlueJean cables product). It is between Yammy RX-V667 (pre/pro) and a PJ. Worked with a BenQ W1200, and I am currently using it with an Epson 3010. 1080p/60 (via HTPC) works without issues, as does 3D Blu Ray (player set to 1080p/24).

-T
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