Did I talk myself into a mistake? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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So I finally bought my projector after about a year and half. I did a ton of research about a year and half ago then did a bunch more research recently and finally bought a Panny 4000u instead of the Epson 8700ub I was also considering. I made the decision mostly because I wanted the decreased lag for gaming and I liked the image a little better based on what my untrained eye liked.

Well I have the projector in my living room and have been watching movies on my wall every night. Before I ordered my screen I tried a ton of different sizes on my wall, measuring them out trying to find that perfect size for my room. My wife and I finally agreed that we liked the picture quality in Cinema 1 Eco Mode and that the image still looked good at a 134" 16x9 screen (bigger is always better right!?!..err maybe not). So I ordered a Carada Brilliant White screen and its in the mail.

I told myself that the image would only get better because the wall I'm using is a creamy white color so I would be increasing my brightness from my 1.4 gain screen and I'll be painting those creamy walls a very dark burgundy so less ambient light. I also plan to put up blackout curtains and reduce my artificial lighting to two canned lights 4 feet behind the projector on a dimmer switch. All of this sounded great to me and I figured "hey I'm gonna have pretty good ambient light control for a living room".

Well as I normally do with a purhcase I started second guessing myself and reading reviews. I came across these articles
http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...00/screens.php
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...00ub/image.php
http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...erformance.php
I had read all, but the ae7000 review before buying my projector and screen and everything seemed fine to me, but now I have two concerns.

My first concern is I never thought about the loss of light I would encounter as my bulb gets older. So I'm worried that though my image might look good now and might look even better once my screen arrives and my light control measure go into affect, it won't look good at the end of the bulb life.

The second concern I have is did I get the right screen and/or projector. I see these images in Art's reviews and it looks a lot like what I think my theater will look like when its done accept I'll have burundy instead of rust paint and I wont leave the shades open. According to these articles the Panny has 930 lumens in Calibrated Dynamic and the Epson has 1194. Now the image in the Dynamic Mode screen shots for the Epson look great, but those are on a 128" screen (I believe Firehawk) and my screen is bigger, 1.4 gain Brilliant White, and has less lumens so that makes me pretty nervous.

Granted currently almost 100% of my viewing is at night where I won't be getting any outside sunlight, but once I have my screen installed I'm guessing I'm going to want to invite people over on occassion for a Football/Video Game. The other variable is I hope to move in a few years and at that point build a dedicated theater room so I'd like the screen I buy to still be viable then in better lighting conditions.

In closing any input would be great. Technically I could return my screen and pay a restocking fee and the projector could probably be sold? Maybe? I got it for only $1,700 so I think I could get a big chunk of that back. I dunno. Thanks for reading my ramblings.
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post #2 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 06:02 AM
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Hehe, I have no answer for you, other than you and I did a similar thing. I spent a year researching, when I got my projector and screen...I read NEW stuff that made me second guess EVERYTHING !!
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post #3 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 06:08 AM
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Personally I don't know why you'd pick the 4000u over the 8700ub.

Reading through your post I think you worry too much about making a mistake. Everything is a compromise. Nothing is going to be perfect. Just enjoy your setup.

One way to ensure that you're satisfied with your setup is once you've completed your purchasing GET OFF THIS SITE !!!!!!!!!

I visit this site about every 2 years or so. When it's time for me to buy a new PJ or if I need some other piece of equipment. Sometimes I drop in to check out the latest toys but my finances won't allow me to be a regular visitor
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post #4 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 06:51 AM
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Relax. It will all be good. Very good. When the lamp starts to dim too much for your tastes, get a new lamp and it will seem like a brand new PJ. And I second the comment above, stop reading posts on this site,or any site about the subject unless and until you have a need to solve a problem or make a change.

Enjoy!
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post #5 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 06:58 AM
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Keep the screen for the extra gain with 3d and get an Epson 3010 or 5010 or the Panny 7000.
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post #6 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 06:58 AM
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You are definitely overthinking things and psyching yourself out. I'm quite confident you will be very happy with your new setup, especially since you can control ambient light. If the bulb dims too much over the years you can switch from ECO to Normal mode for a while before swapping out the bulb.
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post #7 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 07:04 AM
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Like noted do not worry about it. If you where happy with the results off a off color wall you will be very happy I am sure when shooting onto a screen.
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post #8 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 07:21 AM
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why are you worrying about a dim light bulb? Its not like it happens after 10 hours
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post #9 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 07:53 AM
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One thing i have learned over the years i've been in this hobby: When you read enough of this stuff, you'll get the impression that there are HUGE differences between things. But in reality the differences are actually quite small.

Let me qualify that a little bit:

With the setup you're thinking of getting, you'll get a long way towards perfection, let's say 85%. Compared to most "normal" people out there, your setup will be awesome. For a first time projector setup, you'll do just fine.

Many people on these forums have years of experience with this stuff, and they are looking to improve that last 15%. It's the never-ending hunt for perfection. And getting closer to that perfection takes lots of reading, lots of time, lots of trial and error, and lots of money. It's easy to get caught up in this. This is where small difference are discussed as if they are big differences. To the people who are trying to get a 2% improvement above the 85%, it may indeed be a big difference. But to a guy starting out on this journey, that 2% is really quite small in the grand scheme.

Part of this hobby is appreciating your setup and understanding the improvements you can make so that you can appreciate the changes and improvements. Start with something that's good. Then over the years learn about what you can and want to improve, and do it.

So: Keep things in perspective! Don't get caught in analysis paralysis.

"He who asks feels dumb for a few minutes, but he who does not ask remains dumb forever."

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post #10 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphx2 View Post

why are you worrying about a dim light bulb? Its not like it happens after 10 hours

No, but you could have 20-30% dimming within 200-500 hours or so. Depends on the PJ and bulb.

I watch a lot of TV on my PJ, and 200-500 hours does not take that long.

The other thing to consider is placement (max vs minimum throw distance). The closer you have the projector to the screen, the better your chance of having more lumens over time.
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post #11 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 08:40 AM
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All projectors have trade offs. However if you play games you will literally be cursing at your projector and getting very frustrated if you get something with too much lag. So in that regards I think you chose wisely.

The only thing I would second guess is the screen size. 134" is HUGE. Now if you had a fully light controlled room it would be workable but when you start talking about ambient light, it's going to wash things out a lot. Sunlight, there aren't really many options other than block it with shades/blackout curtains. Lights, i would suggest you invest in some led lights that point away from the screen. Led lights are much more directional than both CFL and incandescent. That can be annoying if you are trying to fill and area with light, but awesome if you are trying to fill the area with light except for a certain area (your screen).

I personally have a fully windowless media room, but like to watch tv with the lights on. It was somewhat manageable when my projector was new, but now with ~1500 hrs on the lamp, i switched to led lighting in the rear row of seats, and it made a big difference. I can see my beer and the tv just fine now . Try getting a free standing lamp and pick up an led bulb or 2 at your local hardware store, move it around, see what works for you. If you don't like it return it.
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post #12 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertjan View Post

One thing i have learned over the years i've been in this hobby: When you read enough of this stuff, you'll get the impression that there are HUGE differences between things. But in reality the differences are actually quite small.

Let me qualify that a little bit:

With the setup you're thinking of getting, you'll get a long way towards perfection, let's say 85%. Compared to most "normal" people out there, your setup will be awesome. For a first time projector setup, you'll do just fine.

Many people on these forums have years of experience with this stuff, and they are looking to improve that last 15%. It's the never-ending hunt for perfection. And getting closer to that perfection takes lots of reading, lots of time, lots of trial and error, and lots of money. It's easy to get caught up in this. This is where small difference are discussed as if they are big differences. To the people who are trying to get a 2% improvement above the 85%, it may indeed be a big difference. But to a guy starting out on this journey, that 2% is really quite small in the grand scheme.

Part of this hobby is appreciating your setup and understanding the improvements you can make so that you can appreciate the changes and improvements. Start with something that's good. Then over the years learn about what you can and want to improve, and do it.

So: Keep things in perspective! Don't get caught in analysis paralysis.

This has to be the best post and the best advice I have read in the forums in years. I just wish I had had the guts to say it myself. There is very little equipment on the market today that will not give a great picture. The discussions here tend to be about very minute differences. Although the people having the discussions will not agree that they are minute. The last sentence in the quote is great advice.
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post #13 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iolmaster View Post

This has to be the best post and the best advice I have read in the forums in years. I just wish I had had the guts to say it myself. There is very little equipment on the market today that will not give a great picture. The discussions here tend to be about very minute differences. Although the people having the discussions will not agree that they are minute. The last sentence in the quote is great advice.

I agree to a large degree. However, there are exceptions. When I went from the 8100 with 36k contrast to the 6500ub with 75k contrast there was a very noticeable (large) improvement in the picture quality. Blacks went from slightly gray to black. Even my wife was impressed and she usually doesn't notice the difference between equipment when I upgrade. Now I've read that there is much less improvement when you go from 75k to 200k contrast.

On the other hand, when I upgraded our receiver there was not that much of a noticeable difference. I could tell but she couldn't. (I upgraded the receiver because the old one died and I found a much higher end one for half price.)
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post #14 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertjan View Post

One thing i have learned over the years i've been in this hobby: When you read enough of this stuff, you'll get the impression that there are HUGE differences between things. But in reality the differences are actually quite small.

Let me qualify that a little bit:

With the setup you're thinking of getting, you'll get a long way towards perfection, let's say 85%. Compared to most "normal" people out there, your setup will be awesome. For a first time projector setup, you'll do just fine.

Many people on these forums have years of experience with this stuff, and they are looking to improve that last 15%. It's the never-ending hunt for perfection. And getting closer to that perfection takes lots of reading, lots of time, lots of trial and error, and lots of money. It's easy to get caught up in this. This is where small difference are discussed as if they are big differences. To the people who are trying to get a 2% improvement above the 85%, it may indeed be a big difference. But to a guy starting out on this journey, that 2% is really quite small in the grand scheme.

Part of this hobby is appreciating your setup and understanding the improvements you can make so that you can appreciate the changes and improvements. Start with something that's good. Then over the years learn about what you can and want to improve, and do it.

So: Keep things in perspective! Don't get caught in analysis paralysis.

Well said. This should be stickied at the top of every forum in AVS because it is almost universally applicable!
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post #15 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertjan View Post

One thing i have learned over the years i've been in this hobby: When you read enough of this stuff, you'll get the impression that there are HUGE differences between things. But in reality the differences are actually quite small.

Let me qualify that a little bit:

With the setup you're thinking of getting, you'll get a long way towards perfection, let's say 85%. Compared to most "normal" people out there, your setup will be awesome. For a first time projector setup, you'll do just fine.

Many people on these forums have years of experience with this stuff, and they are looking to improve that last 15%. It's the never-ending hunt for perfection. And getting closer to that perfection takes lots of reading, lots of time, lots of trial and error, and lots of money. It's easy to get caught up in this. This is where small difference are discussed as if they are big differences. To the people who are trying to get a 2% improvement above the 85%, it may indeed be a big difference. But to a guy starting out on this journey, that 2% is really quite small in the grand scheme.

Part of this hobby is appreciating your setup and understanding the improvements you can make so that you can appreciate the changes and improvements. Start with something that's good. Then over the years learn about what you can and want to improve, and do it.

So: Keep things in perspective! Don't get caught in analysis paralysis.

Thank guys tons of great advice and I feel better. I have to agree with everyone else though this advice quoted above is probably some of the best advice I've seen, should be stickied. Funny thing is two years ago I actually had a 60" plasma in my house and set up, but I ended up returning it because I read about something on the forums here that was an issue with that TV and once I looked and noticed the problem it constantly drove me nuts. I've tried to not allow that to happen with my recent purchase.

I think I was just worried I might have overdid it with the screen size and maybe shoulda grabbed a gray one instead. I love researching things and I think I let that passion carry over into buyers remorse more often than I should. Thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

No, but you could have 20-30% dimming within 200-500 hours or so. Depends on the PJ and bulb.

I watch a lot of TV on my PJ, and 200-500 hours does not take that long.

The other thing to consider is placement (max vs minimum throw distance). The closer you have the projector to the screen, the better your chance of having more lumens over time.

Oh and I wanted to respond to this as well. I am putting this projector and minimum throw distance so I have that covered.
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post #16 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 12:20 PM
 
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This site will ruin you. You have to just enjoy what your budget will allow. There will always be better and you can tweek to no end. I try very hard to just enjoy a movie without picking it apart. Its hard but when I do I find it to be a great experiance
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post #17 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by qx56 View Post

This site will ruin you. You have to just enjoy what your budget will allow. There will always be better and you can tweek to no end. I try very hard to just enjoy a movie without picking it apart. Its hard but when I do I find it to be a great experiance

I agree. It can be really hard though not to nit pick when you make such a huge investment. If you make mistake on something like what sandwhich to buy at Subway or some other small purchase its no big deal cuz you just go buy something else, but with HT's you are kinda stuck with it if you screw up. I think thats why its easy to over analyze and pick things apart.
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post #18 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 12:32 PM
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As they say "Ignorance Is Bliss "
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post #19 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 12:39 PM
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I also agree with everyone on here. Because this site and a couple review sites i've bought a new projector every year the last couple years and this year is no different. I bought the 8350 less than a year ago and now im in the process of getting an Epson 5010 and the same screen you have Carada B/W Criterion Series 134in screen 1.4 gain.
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post #20 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedg8gt View Post

I also agree with everyone on here. Because this site and a couple review sites i've bought a new projector every year the last couple years and this year is no different. I bought the 8350 less than a year ago and now im in the process of getting an Epson 5010 and the same screen you have Carada B/W Criterion Series 134in screen 1.4 gain.

I wasn't planning on posting anymore, but I have to ask. What are you doing with all your old projectors? I'm guessing you're selling them and I'm curious what kind of return you are getting compared to your original purchase price and how you sell them.

Unless of course you are independently wealthy and can just buy a projector every year then throw away the old one. Or perhaps you let your kids play with them and use them like building blocks??
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post #21 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 01:04 PM
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There is regular stuff popping up in the classified here and elsewhere. Some people find other uses (give/sell to family, make it the gaming pj, outdoor pj, whatever).
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post #22 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zergman View Post

I wasn't planning on posting anymore, but I have to ask. What are you doing with all your old projectors? I'm guessing you're selling them and I'm curious what kind of return you are getting compared to your original purchase price and how you sell them.

Unless of course you are independently wealthy and can just buy a projector every year then throw away the old one. Or perhaps you let your kids play with them and use them like building blocks??

Im definitely not wealthy. But i have managed to sell my old projectors either before or after I bought a new one. Plus Im a good salesmen. When I have friends over they always love my setup and what I have going on so it makes it easy. Plus I let my friends know for what they spend on a tv they can buy a projector and get more for there money. But I dont give them away. In fact I havnt been able to sell my 8350 yet.
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post #23 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedg8gt View Post

Im definitely not wealthy. But i have managed to sell my old projectors either before or after I bought a new one. Plus Im a good salesmen. When I have friends over they always love my setup and what I have going on so it makes it easy. Plus I let my friends know for what they spend on a tv they can buy a projector and get more for there money. But I dont give them away. In fact I havnt been able to sell my 8350 yet.

Good to know. If the market improves enough for me to sell my house in a couple years I'll probably sell this one or leave it with the house if thats what the buyers wants. Thanks.
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post #24 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zergman View Post

Good to know. If the market improves enough for me to sell my house in a couple years I'll probably sell this one or leave it with the house if thats what the buyers wants. Thanks.

Unless theres a projector that comes out next year thats so spectacular that I'll die if I dont get it then the 5010 will be my last for a couple years. Between that and the screen Im spent. I do really think tho that itll be good enough for a couple years and no major changes next year. Look at it this way, if you buy really good now then you dont have to upgrade for a while.
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post #25 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 02:11 PM
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Stop reading and start enjoying. You won't see a lot of problems until someone else points them out and you start looking for them. So until you see a problem, skip the projector section of the forum. In a few years when the second bulb is ready to go out, then decide if you want a new projector and start researching again.

There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots. Me being one of them at times.

My HT Website in progress.
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post #26 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 02:49 PM
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Have no doubt that an AE4000 and that screen is going to rock your visual world.

I mean, darn nice setup right there.
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post #27 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Have no doubt that an AE4000 and that screen is going to rock your visual world.

I mean, darn nice setup right there.

Haha thanks. Considering I've had a 32" LCD for the first 10 years of marriage its not like the bar has been set really high so I'm sure your right. I was just concerned about the occassional daytime viewing, but it sounds like I should be ok.
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post #28 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 08:00 PM
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Everything can be second guessed and technology continues to change rapidly. I have spent a small fortune by my measurement on this stuff. Unfortunately two of my closest friends that live in my neighborhood have spent large fortunes on their theaters. (Both in excess of $1m - no kidding). The only time I get down on my setup is when I go to their houses. The solution... I made new friends and I don't go to their houses very often. I feel much better now.
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post #29 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 09:06 PM
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It just comes down to picking a target as far as money/specs and being happy with that.

In my case I kept reading about folks not likeing paying for projector bulbs year after year so my target was a 720p projector without the need for an expensive bulb every year and my solution was the Vivitek Qumi and my Family and I were happy.

My plan is buy another Qumi with upgraded specs a year from now and sell the by then one year old Qumi to continue enjoying HT movies with no bulb worries.

Is it perfect? no but I really like the picture the Qumi delivers for 499.

So enjoy your setup and forget about what if I did this and what if I did that since the only important thing is to watch the movies!

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #30 of 30 Old 01-05-2012, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zergman View Post

Haha thanks. Considering I've had a 32" LCD for the first 10 years of marriage its not like the bar has been set really high so I'm sure your right. I was just concerned about the occassional daytime viewing, but it sounds like I should be ok.


The 4000 is decently bright. Now for me? I am a film lover, and I really like the way Panasonic projectors LCD presents film source over most all others.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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