CES LED Observations - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 01-09-2012, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
JackB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Pauma Valley, CA USA
Posts: 1,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Please post any news, observations, etc. for anything you see at CES 2012 on the small LED projectors. I'm particularly interested in any conversations at the LG booth on them fixing the aspect ratio problem with the 300T.

Jack
JackB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 01-10-2012, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
JackB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Pauma Valley, CA USA
Posts: 1,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post

Please post any news, observations, etc. for anything you see at CES 2012 on the small LED projectors. I'm particularly interested in any conversations at the LG booth on them fixing the aspect ratio problem with the 300T.

I probably started this thread a day too soon. Perhaps some action today?

Jack
JackB is offline  
post #3 of 21 Old 01-10-2012, 11:05 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,326
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked: 1039
I'll be there tomorrow thru Friday. I'll keep my eye out but I have doubts that I'll see any decent sub $3k LED based projectors. Last time it was only pico sized projectors being shown off and those were pretty 'meh'.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #4 of 21 Old 01-10-2012, 02:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Russell Burrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: no mans land aka mexican dmz
Posts: 422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I'll be there tomorrow thru Friday. I'll keep my eye out but I have doubts that I'll see any decent sub $3k LED based projectors. Last time it was only pico sized projectors being shown off and those were pretty 'meh'.

Decent as in wow! factor? hardly.

In A.I. research we say its not how well the bear dances but the miracle being that it dances at all.

The danceing bear for 2011 was the Vivitek Qumi that was ok for what it was to watch TV shows and mobile/gameing theater.

Now if we can get better versions of this for 2012/2013 then call me a happy camper.

TIA for any new info on LED pico? projectors that improve on the Qumi performance.

I do hope that by 2013 we see a 1080p led pj at 700 lumens in a small form factor with a quiet fan.

DIY beats store purchased.
Russell Burrows is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 01-11-2012, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
JackB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Pauma Valley, CA USA
Posts: 1,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 18
There must be some announcements or demos that have been seen by now. Anyone? How about discussions with LG rep on 16:9 ratio problem on the 300T?

Jack
JackB is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 01-11-2012, 06:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
led has peaked pretty much- there are a few pjs that are geting small lumen/input upgrades -like the optoma pk310.some of you are hoping for a constant upgrade cycle/evolution like a 700 lumen 1080p pj...its not gona happen.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CGIQxBUwAA
whos gona buy some thing like this?
the new qumi looks like a non starter also price/spec wise.

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 01-12-2012, 10:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mobius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,908
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

led has peaked pretty much- there are a few pjs that are geting small lumen/input upgrades -like the optoma pk310.some of you are hoping for a constant upgrade cycle/evolution like a 700 lumen 1080p pj...its not gona happen.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CGIQxBUwAA
whos gona buy some thing like this?
the new qumi looks like a non starter also price/spec wise.


I don't give a rip about 3D, but that's just me. :-)

I would like a solid 1080p HD LED projector though. I'd jump onboard for that.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a...
mobius is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 01-12-2012, 10:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius View Post

I don't give a rip about 3D, but that's just me. :-)

I would like a solid 1080p HD LED projector though. I'd jump onboard for that.

get your wallet out-there are about 25 and they are not cheap

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15
there are more(like the vango sold a AVS store),there used to be about as many 1080p HD LED projectors as lcd 1080p projectors.

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 01-12-2012, 03:14 PM
Senior Member
 
reallynotnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

led has peaked pretty much- there are a few pjs that are geting small lumen/input upgrades -like the optoma pk310.some of you are hoping for a constant upgrade cycle/evolution like a 700 lumen 1080p pj...its not gona happen.

how can you make a statement like that? We have been seeing constant improvements for awhile now, who's to say that is going to stop?

I too was really hoping to see some 700 lumen and/or 1080p pico projectors this year. Even if they had to make the projector bigger, I wouldn't care too much if it can be brighter and higher res for the same ~$500 price.
reallynotnick is online now  
post #10 of 21 Old 01-12-2012, 03:43 PM
 
HiFiFun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
When you see a par30-38 LED put out 2000 lumens then you will see action in the backwater technology front projectors. Just screw the bulb in!
Today the brightest bulb only replace up to about 100watt incandescent.

Someone pull a good prank and go over to the >$3K forum in their LED projector thread and ask will not screw a par30 LED bulb in for their projector?
HiFiFun is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 01-12-2012, 04:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
klas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 754
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
wow no 1k lumens LEDs.... disappointing...

Mac Mini HTPC (Win7)
klas is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old 01-12-2012, 07:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post

how can you make a statement like that? We have been seeing constant improvements for awhile now, who's to say that is going to stop?

I too was really hoping to see some 700 lumen and/or 1080p pico projectors this year. Even if they had to make the projector bigger, I wouldn't care too much if it can be brighter and higher res for the same ~$500 price.

you have seen 1 new TI chip come out and its not even 1280x800(its 1140x912)and pico making for a few pocket pjs. wheres it gona go?Whos leds are you gonna use?the strongest led are used in the expensive 1080p leds (the pt120 led is 5 years old now).the 1080p led market is packed and even the huge (30lb avg)led projectors are only doing 700-1000 lumens.

would you buy the new 500 lumen q3 qumi for 700-800$.the 1000lumen samsung SP-F10M cost 1350$ didnt sell and seems to have a lot of refurbs for sale(problems?).
http://www.google.com/products/catal...wAA#scoring=tp

I just dont see whos gona make it for what market.There are no led HT pjs under 10000$ after all right?

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old 01-12-2012, 07:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

When you see a par30-38 LED put out 2000 lumens then you will see action in the backwater technology front projectors. Just screw the bulb in!
Today the brightest bulb only replace up to about 100watt incandescent.

Someone pull a good prank and go over to the >$3K forum in their LED projector thread and ask will not screw a par30 LED bulb in for their projector?

the pt-120 led chipset
Red: 1,360-2,225 lumens
Green: 2,700-4,300 lumens
Blue: 550-970 lumens

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old 01-13-2012, 02:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Luminus Demonstrates Latest Advances in LED Projector Technology at International CES
Company Exhibits a Full Spectrum of Projector Products Integrating Its LED Technology, Ranging From a 50 lm Pico Projector to a 4000 lm Hybrid Projector

LAS VEGAS, NV, Jan 11, 2012 (MARKETWIRE via COMTEX) -- Consumer Electronics Show -- Luminus Devices, Inc., developer and manufacturer of high light output Big Chip LEDs(TM), will be demonstrating the latest projector products illuminated by the company's projection chipsets. Invited visitors will get a chance to see a side-by-side demonstration featuring an LED projector with brightness comparable to a traditional lamp-based projector rated at 2200 ANSI lumens. Confirming its focus on higher brightness mainstream projectors targeted to business and education markets, the company will also display a 4000 lm hybrid LED/Laser projector based on its latest Red and Blue LED technology solutions.

casio must have some thing new in the works (ditching the wheel?)or some one else is working on hybrid stuff.

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 01-14-2012, 09:04 AM
 
HiFiFun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
HiFiFun is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 01-14-2012, 09:06 AM
 
HiFiFun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Most LED lights only have an efficiency of about 60 lumens/watt:
The latest CREE (not yet released) has 152 lumens/watt!
Note: 2800K lights (soft white!) are too yellow for my tastes
HiFiFun is offline  
post #17 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 11:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://ces.zol.com.cn/topic/2685533.html
http://projector.zol.com.cn/269/2693103.html
gona translate some of this

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 12:28 PM
Newbie
 
jeffers7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
or throw it into google?
http://translate.google.com/translat...3.html&act=url
(so acer k130, 300 lumens)
http://translate.google.com/translat...3.html&act=url seems the sites front page >.>
jeffers7 is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 01:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eat meat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffers7 View Post

or throw it into google?
http://translate.google.com/translat...3.html&act=url
(so acer k130, 300 lumens)
http://translate.google.com/translat...3.html&act=url seems the sites front page >.>

of course thats how i meant looks like a 300 lumen acer(Acer K130)
some other small led pjs.

__________________________________________
Are you classified as human? Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.

(fifth element)
__________________________________________
eat meat is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 01:20 PM
Newbie
 
jeffers7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
haha yeah i read "gotta" instead of "gonna", i couldnt see much useful on the site, but then im not sure what i was looking for except "led"
jeffers7 is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 02:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Russell Burrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: no mans land aka mexican dmz
Posts: 422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

you have seen 1 new TI chip come out and its not even 1280x800(its 1140x912)and pico making for a few pocket pjs. wheres it gona go?Whos leds are you gonna use?the strongest led are used in the expensive 1080p leds (the pt120 led is 5 years old now).the 1080p led market is packed and even the huge (30lb avg)led projectors are only doing 700-1000 lumens.

would you buy the new 500 lumen q3 qumi for 700-800$.the 1000lumen samsung SP-F10M cost 1350$ didnt sell and seems to have a lot of refurbs for sale(problems?).
http://www.google.com/products/catal...wAA#scoring=tp

I just dont see whos gona make it for what market.There are no led HT pjs under 10000$ after all right?

I also looked around for about brighter/cheaper led chips but I forgot who said what?? but I do remember somebody said OSRAM??

I asked and they said bigger wafers means per chip prices going lower.

Oh and they are also gearing up for 8 inch wafers!!



http://www.ecnmag.com/news/2012/01/O...ps-on-Silicon/

Thursday, January 12, 2012

Researchers at OSRAM Opto Semiconductors have succeeded in manufacturing high-performance blue and white LED prototypes in which the light-emitting gallium-nitride layers are grown on silicon wafers with a diameter of 150 millimeters (approx. 6 inches). The silicon wafers replace the sapphire substrates commonly used in the industry up to now, with no loss of quality. Already in the pilot stage, the new LED chips are being tested under practical conditions, meaning that the first LEDs on silicon from OSRAM Opto Semiconductors could hit the market in as little as two years.

Advantages of silicon
This is a pioneering development for several reasons. Silicon is an attractive and low-cost option for the lighting markets of the future. Due to its already widespread use in the semiconductor industry, the availability of large wafer diameters and its very good thermal properties, silicon is an attractive and low cost option for large-volume fabrication. Quality and performance data on the fabricated LED silicon chips match those of sapphire-based chips: the blue UX:3 chips in OSRAM's standard Golden Dragon Plus package achieve a record brightness of 634 mW at 3.15 volts, equivalent to 58 percent efficiency.

These are outstanding values for state-of-the-art 1 mm² chips driven at 350 mA. In combination with a conventional phosphor converter in a standard housing -- in other words as white LEDs -- these prototypes correspond to 140 lm at 350 mA with an efficiency of 127 lm/W at 4500K.

For these LEDs to become widely established in lighting, the component cost must come down significantly while maintaining the same level of quality and performance, says Dr. Peter Stauss, project manager at OSRAM Opto Semiconductors. We are developing new methods along the entire technology chain for this purpose, from chip technology to production processes and housing technology. Mathematically speaking, it is already possible today to fabricate over 17,000 LED chips of one square millimeter in size on a 150 millimeter (6 inch) wafer. Larger silicon wafers could increase productivity even more; researchers have already demonstrated the first structures on 200 millimeter substrates (approx. 8 inches).

OSRAM Opto Semiconductors has acquired comprehensive expertise over the last 30 years in the process of artificial crystal growth (epitaxy), the foundation for this milestone in the development of new manufacturing technologies. The German Federal Ministry of Education and Research funds these activities as part of its GaNonSi project network. Our investments in years of research are paying off, because we have succeeded in optimizing the quality of the gallium-nitride layers on the silicon substrates to the point where efficiency and brightness have reached competitive market levels, noted Dr. Stauss. Stress tests we've already conducted demonstrate the high quality and durability of the LEDs, two of our traditional hallmarks.

DIY beats store purchased.
Russell Burrows is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off