Help with distance vs. light vs screen size! Epson 8350 vs. 5010. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 01-22-2012, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I have looked at the calculator on projector central and read a bunch of threads here but I am a totally confused...

I have a 20' deep room, the screen will be on the far wall with 2 rows of seating, likely at 11' and 17'. Ceiling height is 7'10", the back row will be on a riser no taller than 12". I will be using a 126-120" diagonal screen with Center Stage XD AT material with a 1.2 gain. I planned on ceiling mounting projector 16' back and about 2' off center but could move the projector as far forward as 15' perhaps even 14' forward, not sure if that would then be in field of view for people in row 2 on a 12" riser. Light can be totally controlled for movie viewing. I may watch some sports with minimal ambient light when family is around.

The two units I am looking at are the popular and inexpensive Epson 8350 vs. the new, supposedly brighter/more contrast/3D Epson 5010. The price difference is about $1800. Both could be in budget but I sure could use that $1800 for other things in my basement build. The 5010 also seems to be having quite a few complaints on build issues and lag time in the official thread.

1. My primary concern is BRIGHTNESS. I don't *need* 3D, figured it would be a novelty but I could buy the cheaper unit now and upgrade in a few years when 3D is cheap and brighter. Is the 8350 BRIGHT ENOUGH from back in the 17'-15' throw range? Is the 5010? This on a 126-120" diagonal 1.2 gain screen?

2. Is the brightness difference between these great enough (2000 vs. 2400 lumens) to really see a difference?

3. What is the opinion of folks on mounting a projector on the ceiling FORWARD of a seating row? I can avoid that by mounting at 17', but for max brightness should I move the projector to 15' maybe 14' a few feet forward of the 2nd row to get better brightness?

4. Is the contrast differences between the 8350 and the 5010 super noticeable, will I be disappointed in a washed out experience from the cheaper unit?

5. Do we suspect that just a few years from now there will be sub-$1500 3D projectors with much brighter, better contrast?

Thanks... so confused if I should go with the expensive projector or just get the cheaper well reviewed one and wait for the cost of 3D to drop. The key is BRIGHTNESS/CONTRAST comparison on my biggish screen when throwing from 17'-15' back.
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post #2 of 11 Old 01-22-2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basementdweller1 View Post

Ok, I have looked at the calculator on projector central and read a bunch of threads here but I am a totally confused...

I have a 20' deep room, the screen will be on the far wall with 2 rows of seating, likely at 11' and 17'. Ceiling height is 7'10", the back row will be on a riser no taller than 12". I will be using a 126-120" diagonal screen with Center Stage XD AT material with a 1.2 gain. I planned on ceiling mounting projector 16' back and about 2' off center but could move the projector as far forward as 15' perhaps even 14' forward, not sure if that would then be in field of view for people in row 2 on a 12" riser. Light can be totally controlled for movie viewing. I may watch some sports with minimal ambient light when family is around.

The two units I am looking at are the popular and inexpensive Epson 8350 vs. the new, supposedly brighter/more contrast/3D Epson 5010. The price difference is about $1800. Both could be in budget but I sure could use that $1800 for other things in my basement build. The 5010 also seems to be having quite a few complaints on build issues and lag time in the official thread.

Well let's brook no mistake. The 5010 is an exceptional improvement over the 8350 in every dept. save lag time. (...an issue for Gamers only...) I appreciate the 8350 for all that it is...having been "associated" with 14 or so since Sept '10. But I've pleasured myself with both the 5010 & the 6010 as well, and for providing a dynamic & Contrasty image...with real impact, on low lamp.........the 5010/6010 are at a level as far above the 8350 and the latter was above the Panny 4000U. The 8350's Blacks are not sufficient to go "Toe to Toe" with the 5010. (...the 3010....that's different. )

Quote:


1. My primary concern is BRIGHTNESS. I don't *need* 3D, figured it would be a novelty but I could buy the cheaper unit now and upgrade in a few years when 3D is cheap and brighter. Is the 8350 BRIGHT ENOUGH from back in the 17'-15' throw range? Is the 5010? This on a 126-120" diagonal 1.2 gain screen?

Fact: 5010 @ 15' Throw to 126" diagonal 1.2 Gain surface = 21 Fl. Very sufficient for 3D in light controlled environs.

Fact: 8350 @ 14' Throw to 126" diagonal 1.2 Gain surface = 21 Fl.


Quote:


2. Is the brightness difference between these great enough (2000 vs. 2400 lumens) to really see a difference?

The 5010 vs 8350 ?....easily so. The 8350, in any direct and identical "distance / screen size / Gain" match-up, will come up short in the Lumen/Foot Lambert Depts..

Quote:


3. What is the opinion of folks on mounting a projector on the ceiling FORWARD of a seating row? I can avoid that by mounting at 17', but for max brightness should I move the projector to 15' maybe 14' a few feet forward of the 2nd row to get better brightness?

First off, you keep bouncing back and forth between Far & Close Throws. Simple rule. Placing a PJ at but no closer than with 10-15% of it's shortest Throw distance (...as per Lens Zooming parameters...) will always be optimal as far as delivering the highest degree of output to the selected surface....at any given possible size.

But you said your ceiling is just 7' 10" Riser is 12" Either PJ with a "very short" Ceiling mount will add another 9". That leaves just 6' clearance between the Riser Floor and the bottom of the PJ.

With the 6010 being Black...you'd have a chance at having a discreet installation is an OK one....If you place it directly over the rear seats.

The 5010 and 8350 have White Casings. And they would be hanging right down there for the Rear seat Patrons.

Don't give a Hoot about 'em? We can move on. Otherwise, the further back you decide to mount the PJ, the more better a choice the 5010 becomes. Your room's situation call out for a Rear of the Room installation.

...that was another "Fact: "

Quote:


4. Is the contrast differences between the 8350 and the 5010 super noticeable, will I be disappointed in a washed out experience from the cheaper unit?

Yes.
In a well designed Light Controlled Room? I'd venture to say no...and feel perfectly justified in saying so. Anything else and the differences between the two units and their performance potential is too wide to not consider.

Price does matter if your willing to look at the equation as a "Upgrade-oriented" affair. Cop a 8350 for $1000.00 (less mount) and you'll be fine until 2013 or so.

Quote:


5. Do we suspect that just a few years from now there will be sub-$1500 3D projectors with much brighter, better contrast?

Thanks... so confused if I should go with the expensive projector or just get the cheaper well reviewed one and wait for the cost of 3D to drop. The key is BRIGHTNESS/CONTRAST comparison on my biggish screen when throwing from 17'-15' back.

A few years? We don't extend wait times beyond 2 around here. And in that time, it's more likely it will be the case that prices will be lower.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #3 of 11 Old 01-22-2012, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the great response. The seat backs of my last row to get exact will be 16.5' back and the room is 20' deep. I need that last 3.5' as a walkway. My current idea is to place a 5010 (6010 is just pushing the budget too much) directly over the 16.5 point which shouldn't affect standing on the riser but like you said that will be less than 6' from people's ears to the PJ, is your point that the noise will be really bad? That row is sadly the sweet spot with the first row being around 10.5' and a bit too close. I hope the price drops at least a little when I am ready to purchase in 6-8 weeks.
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post #4 of 11 Old 01-23-2012, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basementdweller1 View Post

Thanks for the great response. The seat backs of my last row to get exact will be 16.5' back and the room is 20' deep. I need that last 3.5' as a walkway. My current idea is to place a 5010 (6010 is just pushing the budget too much) directly over the 16.5 point which shouldn't affect standing on the riser but like you said that will be less than 6' from people's ears to the PJ, is your point that the noise will be really bad? That row is sadly the sweet spot with the first row being around 10.5' and a bit too close. I hope the price drops at least a little when I am ready to purchase in 6-8 weeks.

Noise is not a factor, especially if your Screen's gain will allow for Low Lamp mode operation.

I wouldn't count in very much change in the price of the 5010, as you'd find from most sources. But who knows but some nice Epson Dealer whose Kids are already out of College just might hook you up with a killer deal.

Stranger things happen daily.

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post #5 of 11 Old 01-23-2012, 08:10 AM
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Have you considered other projectors? If you are not locked into 3D, there is the BenQW6000 which has a great picture and can be had for under $1400. It is also plenty bright. If you really want 3D, then I would have the 5010 at the top of my list if the budget allows and if you want to save some money look into the Acer 9500 which is what I have. I started out with the Epson 3010 and swapped it out for the Acer and could not be happier. More contrast, and better for sports. The only factor to consider with DLP is whether or not you are susceptible to rainbow effect (RBE). Nobody I personally know is, but some folks that post here are.
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post #6 of 11 Old 01-23-2012, 09:14 AM
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I have a similar sized room with a ceiling even lower (7.5')... my initial design had the projector ceiling mounted with a compromise riser only 4" tall and another 4" platform under the rear seats. Clearance was still tight enough that I moved the projector further back eventually putting it in the room behind the theater and opening a projection window.

So the bottom line is my 8350 has a long (18'4") throw but is plenty bright (depending on the mode) in the fully light controlled theater. I would still look at the 5010 if I was replacing it.

Do pay attention to the clearance issue over your platform considering moving the projector to a platform on the back wall above the seats.
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post #7 of 11 Old 01-23-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basementdweller1 View Post

...

The two units I am looking at are the popular and inexpensive Epson 8350 vs. the new, supposedly brighter/more contrast/3D Epson 5010. The price difference is about $1800. Both could be in budget but I sure could use that $1800 for other things in my basement build. The 5010 also seems to be having quite a few complaints on build issues and lag time in the official thread.

1. My primary concern is BRIGHTNESS. I don't *need* 3D, figured it would be a novelty but I could buy the cheaper unit now and upgrade in a few years when 3D is cheap and brighter. Is the 8350 BRIGHT ENOUGH from back in the 17'-15' throw range? Is the 5010? This on a 126-120" diagonal 1.2 gain screen?
...

You have gotten some good answers and probably don't need this one more, but here goes. It seems to me that if you are considering the 8350 but are concerned about brightness, and are ceiling mounting anyway, then the Epson 3010 is the logical alternative. It matches the 8350 in most aspects of 2D viewing but adds a lot of brightness, plus gives 3D to boot. Then you don't have to anguish over how much 3D projectors will improve over the next couple years, as you are not sinking so much $ into it.

(or, as ack_bk notes, the Acer 9500)

Yet, for 2D viewing only, I think the 8350 should be bright enough on a 120" screen with 1.2 gain in a light controlled setting. We need extra brightness for 3D but not for 2D.
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post #8 of 11 Old 01-23-2012, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

You have gotten some good answers and probably don't need this one more, but here goes. It seems to me that if you are considering the 8350 but are concerned about brightness, and are ceiling mounting anyway, then the Epson 3010 is the logical alternative. It matches the 8350 in most aspects of 2D viewing but adds a lot of brightness, plus gives 3D to boot. Then you don't have to anguish over how much 3D projectors will improve over the next couple years, as you are not sinking so much $ into it.

(or, as ack_bk notes, the Acer 9500)

Yet, for 2D viewing only, I think the 8350 should be bright enough on a 120" screen with 1.2 gain in a light controlled setting. We need extra brightness for 3D but not for 2D.

Yep, looks like the 3010 would work even without lens shift. And you definitely don't have to worry about it not being bright enough
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post #9 of 11 Old 01-23-2012, 03:51 PM
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The 3010 does NOT have any significant improvement over the 8350 as far as Contrast. Nada. Zilch. In fact, the 8350 trumps the 3010. It lacks Len Shift. End of that discussion.


It's really just a brighter, similar in performance PJ in a nicer looking case. And it's higher brightness can work against it.

A 5010 with a ND Filter is a prodigious leap forward. Low Lamp + ND Filter = a very long life at producing a dynamic, contrasty image.

A 8350......great performance at a considerably lower price point.

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post #10 of 11 Old 01-23-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The 3010 does NOT have any significant improvement over the 8350 as far as Contrast. Nada. Zilch. In fact, the 8350 trumps the 3010. It lacks Len Shift. End of that discussion.

It's really just a brighter, similar in performance PJ in a nicer looking case. And it's higher brightness can work against it.

A 5010 with a ND Filter is a prodigious leap forward. Low Lamp + ND Filter = a very long life at producing a dynamic, contrasty image.

A 8350......great performance at a considerably lower price point.

As someone who owned the 3010 for a month, I agree with you on the contrast. The problem is I think Epson put too much of a premium on the 5010. It is like $1200-1300 more than the 3010 and that is not even factoring in the glasses. If the 5010 was in the $2000-2200 range I would have jumped all over it. It is pretty much twice the cost of the 3010 when you factor in the glasses. Kinda ridiculous if you ask me. I could understand the 6010 being twice the price, but the 5010 should be like 50% more at the most.
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post #11 of 11 Old 01-23-2012, 11:17 PM
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The 5010 is really good, I saw one. I still prefer the image of the JVC RS-45 for movies, but the 5010 beats it in everything else for the most part (3D of course, way brighter in the dynamic modes, etc..).

The 5010 is edgier and less film-like than the JVC, but overall still very good. The best modes are pretty close to the JVC RS-45 and Sony hw30, close enough to where all 3 of these projectors given lamp variances could practically come out to the same lumens POST-CALIBRATION for a best mode at the same throw distance. That said, the Espon 5010 is FAR FAR brighter in dynamic modes, it has lumens out the wazoo if you want to see what a TORCHED light canon can really do, and this REALLY helps for 3D.

I watched the 5010 about 5 hours total is all, didn't get to A/B it to the JVC, but did watch duplicate content on both devices.

Anyhow, the projector choices this year are really good, the $3000 space is the best it has ever been in any year ever, but I do agree the choices this year between $1800 to $2500 were kind of lacking.



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