UPS - Battery Backup 5010 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 02-05-2012, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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is anyone running a battery backup on a epson 5010? if so what wattage?

the epson manual says the projector is using 274 watts of power in economy. so I bought a cyperpower ups with double that power. after the superbowl I decided to test and WHAM, projector died instantly.

not even a second or two of power...

first I wonder if I damaged by bulb...oh well...no way to tell I guess.

secondly any idea what kind of power I really need?

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-05-2012, 11:23 PM
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Mine is running on an APC Smart-UPS 700XL I picked up in a salvage shop for $10.

So this is 700VA which is more than plenty. I don't focus on that however, what I focus on with UPS is, whether it's a good sine wave approximation or not. Lots of electronics REALLY don't like being fed the square wave you get from a cheap inverter. The Smart-UPS series AFAICT are a pretty good approximation of a real sine wave.

I also found an APC 2200 unit which is enough to run a refrigerator off of. I put new batteries in that one, the existing ones were shot.

IMO there are lot of great datacenter-grade UPS that are dumped into salvage because groups are on a 3-year replacement cycle, even though the very expensive hardware is still fine and will work for many years.
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post #3 of 24 Old 02-06-2012, 12:13 AM
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It's hard for me to believe that no professional review site/magazine has had one in their hands. It's tough waiting for this thing as it is. Why does JVC not wish to give their products in the hands of reviewers? Are they afraid they will find its faults therefore taking away sales?[img]http://www.******************/zhaojh.jpg[/img][img]http://www.******************/zhaoht.jpg[/img][img]http://www.******************/zhaogd.jpg[/img]
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-06-2012, 02:06 AM
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I use an APC 500VA that I had for the old projector. It worked fine for the old projector but I have not checked if it is big enough for the 5010 yet. It's mounted to ceiling drop pole above the projector. It's there so I can shut down during a power outage. I just put a new battery in it before the 5010 went up.

There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots. Me being one of them at times.

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post #5 of 24 Old 02-06-2012, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Mmm, perhaps I simply had a bad unit, meaning I should have had enough power.

Meaning, I have a 700VA device and the Epson 5010 just LAUGHED at it, so anyone with a less powerful unit, you better test it.

On a side note, do I really need a pure sine wave device, man those are fairly expensive. Not that I want to go on the cheap of course...

Also, I wonder if I should get a kill a watt meter, just to verify what watts are really being consumed before I try to buy another one. Anyone have any real world experience ?
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post #6 of 24 Old 02-06-2012, 02:10 PM
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Mine passes the line voltage straight through unless the power is interrupted. And if it is interrupted, I shut down right away. Mine is not a pure sine wave UPS. If I were going to keep running the projector, then I might worry about it. Though most electronics have a transformer so I don't think a true sine wave is that important. That's just my opinion.

Have you changed the battery in the 700VA UPS? The batteries go bad after a while. It's possible you just have a bad battery and that is why it quit so fast. I prefer the UPS with the large, common 12v batteries. You can buy those in any store that sells hunting equipment for around $20. Most people toss the UPS after the battery goes out.

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post #7 of 24 Old 02-06-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxarch View Post

Most people toss the UPS after the battery goes out.

Exactly. With large UPS, metal shells, and expensive inverters, it's a crying shame. I went into one salvage shop and they told me "yeah we had a bunch of those APC 2200 units come through we just pitched them in the electronics trash immediately". Arrggh.
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post #8 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxarch View Post

Mine passes the line voltage straight through unless the power is interrupted. And if it is interrupted, I shut down right away. Mine is not a pure sine wave UPS. If I were going to keep running the projector, then I might worry about it. Though most electronics have a transformer so I don't think a true sine wave is that important. That's just my opinion.

Have you changed the battery in the 700VA UPS? The batteries go bad after a while. It's possible you just have a bad battery and that is why it quit so fast. I prefer the UPS with the large, common 12v batteries. You can buy those in any store that sells hunting equipment for around $20. Most people toss the UPS after the battery goes out.

The unit and battery on the 700VA UPS was brand new...I tested it on "other devices" and the battery does work. However in economy mode, my 5010 overwhelmed it in less than a second...

Wonder if someone with a watt meter can really tell us the power these guys are consuming.
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by glenngac View Post

yes,i think so

not sure what you are posting...your spamming hyperlinks are not going to be allowed...at least I think that is what you are doing, please go to another site.
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post

However in economy mode, my 5010 overwhelmed it in less than a second...

Hang on a second, how precisely did you test it?

Flipping the circuit breaker while the PJ was already running?

Or some other way? It matters.

I have a Watts Up? meter. I recall hooking it up when I first got it, and I reported it in the main 3010 thread. I just checked again. It starts out low and slowly ramps up as the lamp starts drawing more. I didn't see any surge of startup usage. sure it can be 300-ish Watts, but now where near the alleged capacity of your UPS.
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post #11 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfox View Post

Hang on a second, how precisely did you test it?

Flipping the circuit breaker while the PJ was already running?

Or some other way? It matters.

I have a Watts Up? meter. I recall hooking it up when I first got it, and I reported it in the main 3010 thread. I just checked again. It starts out low and slowly ramps up as the lamp starts drawing more. I didn't see any surge of startup usage. sure it can be 300-ish Watts, but now where near the alleged capacity of your UPS.

Yep, exactly what I did...killed the power to the UPS aka circuit breaker while the projector was running...perhaps that was dumb, but I really wanted to verify it would work.
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 06:59 PM
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I have a Kill-A-Watt meter and will probably order the Epson 5010 in the next couple days (going to peruse the owners thread and see if anything scares me). So I can check, but it'll be awhile yet. I also have a 750 VA APC UPS on my desktop and a 550 VA APC UPS on my file server/router I could use to check, too.

Be aware that despite P=IV that we all learned in physics, a VA rating on a UPS is not directly comparable to W. EEs tell me this has something to do with a power factor and switching power supplies, but my eyes glazed over and comprehension never sunk in. For example, a 700 VA like this one is good for 450 W, which, granted, should be plenty if the unit doesn't draw more than 300-350.

A co-worker had a 350 VA UPS with his 27" iMac with an extra 37" monitor hooked up, and it died like you described the instant power was lost. We moved him up to a 700 VA unit, and everything is fine. So the behavior sounds exactly like overloading it.

Also, I test by unplugging the UPS from the wall.
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by icrf View Post

Also, I test by unplugging the UPS from the wall.

Bzzt. Then you are running ungrounded. Always better to flip the circuit breaker which leaves the ground line intact.
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post #14 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 09:02 PM
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I have an APC XS1000 VA rated at 600 watts and it handles my 5010, Blu-ray player and AV receiver just fine. It actually can run it for 15 or more minutes depending on the soundtrack.

I also shut off the AC to verify the UPS works.

2014
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post #15 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 09:33 PM
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Its difficult to diagnose completley but my guess would be either there is an issue with the unit or you didn't let the battery charge fully after unpacking and testing. The battery is not always at 100% out of the box. With that said, I would not test again on that UPS, your first test probably knocked a few hours of life off that bulb.

In fact, I would reccomend if you can return, it do so. The 5010 is not an inexpensive device, upgrade to a higher end Cyber Power which offers built in LCD and wattage readout. I own the Epson 8500UB, I paid $1,800 for it back in 2010. It has its own, 1000VA UPS which was less than $200. Good investment.
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post #16 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Gang thanks a ton on the feedback, I think I will get the 600 watt device mentioned above, that way I know it will work...

My guess is the unit I had simply did not have enough power....guess you always need to double the expected wattage to be safe...
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 07:21 AM
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I have a APC 550 rated at 360 watts for my Pany 4000 which is rated at 240 watts.I was thinking that since I only need a min or two for the fan in projector to cool it off that in a power failure, 360 watts would be enough because the projector is the only thing that I have plugged into it. Toofast is your projector ok?
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post

I have a APC 550 rated at 360 watts for my Pany 4000 which is rated at 240 watts.I was thinking that since I only need a min or two for the fan in projector to cool it off that in a power failure, 360 watts would be enough because the projector is the only thing that I have plugged into it. Toofast is your projector ok?

As for our rating, my APC was slighly bigger than yours, as the 5010 is around 300 watts on non eco mode...so I thought I was safe. As you have read, my test proves otherwise...hopefully you won't have the issue I had.

As for my projector...well it seems ok...I guess all that could have happened is that I did a bit of damage to my bulb...

But it did start back up and it ran ok after the failed test...guess there is no way for sure to verify...but I am sure this has happened before to others and no massive damage could really happen.
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 08:41 AM
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Not to be rude, but did you have the projector plugged into the correct socket on the back of the UPS? Some are battery backup sockets and others Are not.
If the UPS did not try and kick in, it is bad or you were were not plugged in correctly. I have a similar rated UPS that runs a projector, HD STB, Yamaha Receiver and an HDMI matrix with 20 minutes of run time..
Just saying.. no one mentioned it and neither did you.. it is easy to make the mistake... This is why we test stuff

And you did not damage the projector or lamp
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 09:27 AM
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The obvious testing method hasn't been said yet.

Gather up lamps from around the house, at least 300 Watts worth of plain old light bulbs.

Plug 'em in and test the UPS.

Now you'll know without impacting your expensive PJ.
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post #21 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Not to be rude, but did you have the projector plugged into the correct socket on the back of the UPS? Some are battery backup sockets and others Are not.

heh, forgot about that. I have done exactly that in the past, and know others who have, too.
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post #22 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vincentfox View Post

Bzzt. Then you are running ungrounded. Always better to flip the circuit breaker which leaves the ground line intact.

huh, that's something I hadn't considered. Is that really a problem? It had never been an issue in my testing. I'm usually testing in areas where I can't trip a breaker, like in an office setting up a new desktop computer around a bunch of people still working. Computers have always stayed on without issue, so whatever the UPS is using for a ground is sufficient for the computer's PSU.
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post #23 of 24 Old 02-09-2012, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Not to be rude, but did you have the projector plugged into the correct socket on the back of the UPS? Some are battery backup sockets and others Are not.
If the UPS did not try and kick in, it is bad or you were were not plugged in correctly. I have a similar rated UPS that runs a projector, HD STB, Yamaha Receiver and an HDMI matrix with 20 minutes of run time..
Just saying.. no one mentioned it and neither did you.. it is easy to make the mistake... This is why we test stuff

And you did not damage the projector or lamp

Don't worry, you are not being rude...great question.

Unfortunately I did have it plugged into the correct socket...

However, I really believe the unit I had MUST be defective...but I will to test (without my projector of course) and see if I can figure out the failure.

It just could be the unit SAYS it is rated at XX, but it really is not.
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-09-2012, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfox View Post

The obvious testing method hasn't been said yet.

Gather up lamps from around the house, at least 300 Watts worth of plain old light bulbs.

Plug 'em in and test the UPS.

Now you'll know without impacting your expensive PJ.

Great idea, I will try to find enought of these bulbs out and about...or other non critical electrical devices, like my wifes waffle maker perhaps ? That has gotta pull enough watts :-)
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