6500UB to 3010 = Downgrading? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 02-19-2012, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi.

I was wondering if getting the 3010 or HD33 will be considered as downgrading from my current 6500UB. I like the 2D image on the 6500 but i really want the 3d effect.

Also what do you guys think about a side by side projector setup? The reason i want to do something like this is because the 5010 is a little to much for my budget but i don't know if the 3d from the 3010 is comparable with the 5010.

What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 11 Old 02-20-2012, 04:49 AM
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I would say that the 2d viewing would be similar, but the 6500ub might be a little better with contrast. As for downgrading thats not exactly true since you getting 3d. 3d on this projector is sweet! I love it.

You also have the option to purchase another 6500ub and mount it above your current one. Then you can put some filters on them, run a dual hdmi output with stereoscope player and now you have good blacks and 3d. Your even able to use those cheap glasses from the theater!

The last option requires a good amount of adjusting and stuff before it becomes perfect. If you prefer an easy setup, get the 3010. I swapped my 8500ub for the epson 3010 and I never regretted it. The blacks are lacking a little, but i barley noticed a difference between the two. I also have white walls and ceilings. I'm sure in a bat cave you would see a much greater difference.
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post #3 of 11 Old 02-20-2012, 11:31 AM
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The 3010 would be a significant downgrade in black level. The difference between the 6500UB and the 8350, when it comes to black levels, is massive. The terrible black levels of the 8350 are actually quoted as a slight advantage for the 8350 versus the 3010 according to Art's review. Having seen the grey that passes as black on the 8350 and having the incredible inky blacks of the 8700UB I would not consider a projector that had the same blacks, or worse, as the 8350.

Maybe if you had not spent so much time with an Epson UB unit you could be happy with the difference but if you care about black levels, and you do if you have owned the 6500UB, you will be terribly disappointed with that aspect. A 2-pj solution might work. I would use the 3010 for 3D and maybe daytime viewing if there is ever any light in the room but 2D theater viewing will be better on the 6500UB.
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post #4 of 11 Old 02-20-2012, 11:56 AM
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Maybe consider the Acer 9500HD, unless you are RBE sensitive on DLP projectors. Same price category as the 3010, but has black levels that may be more satisfactory if you are used to Epson high contrast UB/6500/8500/8700 projectors.
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Per projectorreviews.com:

"Let's start with the H9500BD's black level performance. Actually, the H9500 seems to have the blackest blacks of the new under $2000 projectors. I'll call it an ultra-high contrast projector. I suspect it comes close, but can't quite match the Panasonic PT-AE7000, but impressive nonetheless."
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post #5 of 11 Old 02-20-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper_Eye View Post

The 3010 would be a significant downgrade in black level. The difference between the 6500UB and the 8350, when it comes to black levels, is massive. The terrible black levels of the 8350 are actually quoted as a slight advantage for the 8350 versus the 3010 according to Art's review. Having seen the grey that passes as black on the 8350 and having the incredible inky blacks of the 8700UB I would not consider a projector that had the same blacks, or worse, as the 8350.

Maybe if you had not spent so much time with an Epson UB unit you could be happy with the difference but if you care about black levels, and you do if you have owned the 6500UB, you will be terribly disappointed with that aspect. A 2-pj solution might work. I would use the 3010 for 3D and maybe daytime viewing if there is ever any light in the room but 2D theater viewing will be better on the 6500UB.

Your also forgetting that ART reviews his projectors on extremely high quality screens and in a bat cave. If you duplicate his setup yes the black levels will be significant, but if you just use the projector in your living room and you have a white screen, white walls, and a white ceiling. Your not loosing much detail in black level at all since all that white causes the light to bounce all around drowning the black levels down.

I owned an 8500ub and the epson 3010. From someone who owned both and compared them I honestly have to say that there was a minimal about of black level lost with the 3010. I did see a difference, but it wasn't anywhere near as huge as the difference from my projector to my plasma.

If you have a bat cave. The 5010 would be a better choice. If you can live with a little less black, then the 3010 will be great. The best part is this projector is 3d! Avatar looks Amazing! On top of that its much brighter than my 8500ub. I'd take the 3010 over my 8500ub anyday. In a bat cave i probably wouldn't, unless it was the 5010.

I suggest purchasing the 3010 and testing it out. You get to use a max of 4 hours before you can no longer return it. You really only need 1 hour to decide if its a projector for you.
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post #6 of 11 Old 02-20-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

You also have the option to purchase another 6500ub and mount it above your current one. Then you can put some filters on them, run a dual hdmi output with stereoscope player and now you have good blacks and 3d. Your even able to use those cheap glasses from the theater!

How hard is this to do? Now this is something that really interests me.
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post #7 of 11 Old 02-20-2012, 04:00 PM
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Another consideration is to get a GT750 from Optoma. It can be found for $7-800, you can keep your current projector for 2D movies and fire up the Optoma for 3D, gaming, ambient light viewing etc. That way you preserve the life of your Epson's bulbs for more serious movie viewing. I tried a 3010 for a few weeks, but ultimately returned it and got a GT750. I was super dissapointed with the black levels on the 3010. The GT750 isn't that much better, but at half the price, it allowed me to spend my money elsewhere. I fired both on my screen simultaneously, and yes the 3010 looks a hair better when comparing paused frames, but in a blind test with moving images, I guarantee you most people wouldn't be able to see the difference. I had planned on using the money saved to get a refurb 6500UB for 2D viewing, but all the online retailers sold out right before I was ready to pull the trigger.
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post #8 of 11 Old 02-21-2012, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

Your also forgetting that ART reviews his projectors on extremely high quality screens and in a bat cave. If you duplicate his setup yes the black levels will be significant, but if you just use the projector in your living room and you have a white screen, white walls, and a white ceiling. Your not loosing much detail in black level at all since all that white causes the light to bounce all around drowning the black levels down.

I'm not forgetting the setup ART uses to review. I guess I assume that if someone has an Epson UB unit they likely have a room that takes advantage of its black levels since that is the biggest advantage usually attributed to them. That may not necessarily be true. My room is totally free of light, the ceiling is black, and the walls are a flat textured grey. The entire wall behind the fixed Carada screen is a black curtain-like material. So in my case the room was prepared for this purpose. The difference between the 8350 and the 8700UB was huge. It wasn't even close. The 8350 did not project black. It projected grey. When a scene goes dark on the 8700UB you can't see a single thing in the room and it looks like you could put your hand through the abyss that is black on the screen. If you are shopping for a dedicated room that is configured for a projector then the difference is big.

The OP didn't share any details about his room so this very well may not apply to his configuration.
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post #9 of 11 Old 02-21-2012, 06:43 AM
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You don't need a perfect room to appreciate a projector with dark black levels, that is something often misunderstood in this forum.

Once a room gets past a certain point in conditioning, you'll actually notice that bright scenes are benefiting more as the room gets darker, as opposed to how far those small improvements in the room help out the dark scenes. ANSI contrast is affected by room conditions more than on/off contrast or even the black floor. Sure in a better room the black floor is going to look lower, but the whites and blacks will both drop down, and projectors can only go so black, so a perfect bat cave helps, but saying you only need a projector with higher contrast if you have a perfect room or a perfect screen is definitely not right. The higher on/off contrast can be seen in a variety of different room conditions.

One reason for this phenomenon being seemingly backwards is that bright scenes are pushing more light off the screen which washes back into the room, so if you have a room that is 95% darkened but has a few reflective surfaces (like maybe a single piece of bright furniture), then it may show almost no reflection in a dark scene because not enough light is being bounced off the screen, but then in a bright scene the entire room lights up more, that is why ANSI contrast is washed out more in bright scenes from rooms with white walls and what not, even more than black levels. Now if the room is too bad, the entire image will look washed out and both bright and dark scenes look bad.

The Da-Lite High Power as well as some gray screens with positive gain will help preserve ANSI contrast for people with imperfect rooms. These are far from being expensive screens, you can get some HP screens at moderate sizes just over 100" for under $300.


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post #10 of 11 Old 02-21-2012, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper_Eye View Post


The OP didn't share any details about his room so this very well may not apply to his configuration.

I forgot to add this in and thanks for mentioning it. My theatre room is all light controlled, has dark walls and ceiling is painted black and can get it to where i wouldn't see anything if i had every light turned off so yes the blacks are important when viewing. I have a 110" screen that has a 1.4 gain that i use for 2 D viewing but i wasn't sure if the blacks on the sub $1500.00 projectors for 3D viewing would be lighter, or the same. I can always view 2D on the 6500UB and watch 3D on the 3D projector. Again i just want to view Blu-Ray 3D with average blacks and no greys and probably do some 3D gaming with it and from reading the reviews and doing a little research there isn't a projector out there in the 1500.00 range that can do this yet.

Thanks for the replies.
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post #11 of 11 Old 02-21-2012, 07:06 AM
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As mentioned before, the Acer 9500bd is the one that can do this, but it has some SBS gaming issues and a few other issues.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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