Panasonic PT-AE7000 vs Epson PowerLite 5010 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 02-26-2012, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know which one is better for 3D viewing?
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post #2 of 28 Old 02-26-2012, 06:01 PM
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Hey, I don't own either of these projectors but I am trying to decide between the two units as well.

I don't know if you've gone over to look at the Panny 7000 owners thread to do some research, but it seems like there are a few problems going on.
The biggest 2 being-
1) 3D Ghosting
2) Flickering

Now there have been rumors that the flickering issues might be able to be fixed via firmware.

As for the 3D Ghosting, they are doing a lot of tests in the owners thread to find out what the problem is. Right now the theory is temperature. If you pop in a 3D movie and start watching it right away there seems to be a significant amount of ghosting.
However if you put in a 3D movie and leave it paused for 10-15 minutes it reduces the crosstalk a great deal.
This is also dependent on pictures settings as well. It needs to be on Eco Lamp mode, Normal picture, etc. I highly suggest you head over to the owners thread and read up if you haven't already.

When the Panny is 'warmed up' the 3D seems to work like a charm. Something to keep in mind is there are people who claim that their 3D has no ghosting what so ever. Some people might be more sensitive to it than others so who knows for sure.

The Epson's have less picture settings/features while in 3D mode. And also have pretty bad lag from what I've read. So if your a gamer that might be something to test out.
To be honest I haven't really dug into researching Epsons quite yet.

Anyway just thought Id share what Ive learned so far. Hopefully some owners will come in and be more informative than I have been.
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post #3 of 28 Old 02-27-2012, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Axis343 View Post

Hey, I don't own either of these ...... in and be more informative than I have been.

Thanks for all the details!
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post #4 of 28 Old 02-27-2012, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 28 Old 02-28-2012, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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The more I read, the Epson seems to be the clear winner for 2D.
For 3D the Panasonic has an advantage since the Epson disables its auto-iris in 3D.
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post #6 of 28 Old 02-28-2012, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by virtualpaul View Post

The more I read, the Epson seems to be the clear winner for 2D.
For 3D the Panasonic has an advantage since the Epson disables its auto-iris in 3D.

But if the Panasonic is having technical problems with 3D...well....

For me there are pros and cons to both

Panasonic-
Pros
1) Lens shift - Really was looking forward to this feature
2) Reportedly better 3D due to the auto Iris and more picture controls
3) Has less lag than the Epson, which as a gamer is pretty important
4) I have a friend who has a 3D Panny Plasma, so that would cut down on the amount of 3D glasses Id have to buy
Cons
1) Screen flickering that *might* be able to be fixed via firmware
2) Ghosting in 3D possibly due to poor temperature control
3) Non uniform colors across the screen (Ive only seen 2 people complain about that personally)

Epson
Pros
1) Very bright- Brighter in eco mode than Panny is in normal mode. Should mean a longer bulb life. Also you can drive bigger screens.
2) Split Picture- Not something I'd use as much as Panny's Lens Shift I think but still pretty cool
3) Cheaper! The cost of the projector is cheaper as well as the cost of bulbs.
Cons
1) People seem to think the Auto Iris in 2D and fans while in 3D mode are too noisy.
2) Bad input lag. I've seen someone say it was around 100ms lag Make sure to test out games on this thing to see if you can deal with it. (if you are a gamer)
3) No Auto Iris and Less picture controls in 3D. - The Auto Iris part doesn't bug me that much, but only having 2 different picture modes kinda does.
4) Poor pixel alignment/ Convergence - Still reading up on this part. Like I said before I haven't dug into researching the Epson all that much yet.


These are all my personal takes on the projectors. Your pro and con list might be different.
I'm kinda surprised no owners have stopped by to help yet.
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post #7 of 28 Old 02-28-2012, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot for all the information.
In the end I guess nothing is perfect so we have to chose accordingly.
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post #8 of 28 Old 02-28-2012, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I called a store today and the guy tells me the Epson 6010 is not much more money and it has some new THX 3D modes.

Here is a review:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...6010/index.php
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post #9 of 28 Old 02-28-2012, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualpaul View Post

I called a store today and the guy tells me the Epson 6010 is not much more money and it has some new THX 3D modes.

Here is a review:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...6010/index.php

I have been debating between the 6010 and 7000. Just remember you put gaming down. Also, it's not mentioned, but from what I remember the 6010 is loud in 3D mode.

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post #10 of 28 Old 02-29-2012, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Is it the fan that is loud in 3D mode because the Iris is supposed to be OFF in that mode?
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post #11 of 28 Old 02-29-2012, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualpaul View Post

I called a store today and the guy tells me the Epson 6010 is not much more money and it has some new THX 3D modes.

Here is a review:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...6010/index.php

Most places I've seen the 6010 at have it for 1000 more than the other projectors Ive been looking at, which is a bit out of my budget for projector shopping. Which is why I haven't considered it
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post #12 of 28 Old 02-29-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis343 View Post

Most places I've seen the 6010 at have it for 1000 more than the other projectors Ive been looking at, which is a bit out of my budget for projector shopping. Which is why I haven't considered it

According to the store in Montreal (QuebecAcoustics), it is around $500. more but since it includes an extra lamp and 3D glasses, it comes out to a good deal for me.
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post #13 of 28 Old 02-29-2012, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Found this interesting comparative table (in French but easy to translate using google):
http://cinemamaisonquebec.proboards....ead=497&page=1
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post #14 of 28 Old 03-01-2012, 05:50 AM
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My friend bought the Panny AE7000, about a week later I bought my Epson 5010, he came over to watch Transformer Dark of the Moon in 3D, well he's returning his Panny AE7000 and eat the 15% restocking fee just to get the same Epson 5010 as my.
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post #15 of 28 Old 03-01-2012, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlievoviii View Post

My friend bought the Panny AE7000, about a week later I bought my Epson 5010, he came over to watch Transformer Dark of the Moon in 3D, well he's returning his Panny AE7000 and eat the 15% restocking fee just to get the same Epson 5010 as my.

According to most review the 5010 is the better choice of the two.

What do think about the noise while in 3D and the lag for gaming?
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post #16 of 28 Old 03-01-2012, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualpaul View Post

The more I read, the Epson seems to be the clear winner for 2D.
For 3D the Panasonic has an advantage since the Epson disables its auto-iris in 3D.

I guess it really depends on how much you watch 3D. You'll definitely lose contrast with the auto-iris disabled (specifically deep blacks), but on the other hand, 3D requires maximum light output. My dealer recommends the 6010, probably because he sells them. He's convinced me that the extra $700 is well spent for the extra years warranty, two pairs of glasses ($200), extra bulb ($300), anamorphic lens support and a ceiling mount ($50). The latter two mean nothing to me as I have a 16:9 screen and already have a chief ceiling mount.

But I own a DLP now and I've been told that DLP has a "pop" that LCD does not have (my dealer does not have an LCD demo). So I'm thinking about the BenQ W7000, but that seems to have some issues.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #17 of 28 Old 03-01-2012, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?

Video is no there yet but audio is pretty easy to be satisfied.

Some days I am thinking I should just buy a cheaper Optoma HD33 or the Acer H9500BD while the technology matures a bit...
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post #18 of 28 Old 03-02-2012, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualpaul View Post

According to most review the 5010 is the better choice of the two.

What do think about the noise while in 3D and the lag for gaming?

As far as noise in 3D while playing game, well i don't see any. I played a little bit of Need for Speed Shift with my Race simulated chair looking at 120" Stewart Studiotek screen. Looks great but input lag is retarded.
if you play a lot games, I wouldn't pick either. I highly recommend getting the better choice for gaming like BenQ W 7000. Or even better yet get the Optoma GT700, it's cheap and does great job even though it's only 720P.
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post #19 of 28 Old 03-03-2012, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlievoviii View Post

If far as noise in 3D while playing game, well i don't see any. I played a little bit of Need for Speed Shift with my Race simulated chair looking at 120" Stewart Studiotek screen. Looks great but input lag is retarded.
if you play a lot games, I wouldn't pick either. I highly recommend getting the better choice for gaming like BenQ W 7000. Or even better yet get the Optoma GT700, it's cheap and does great job even though it's only 720P.


Thanks for your reply! I also saw that the Sony VPL-HW30 has only 30msec lag in game mode.
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post #20 of 28 Old 03-04-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualpaul View Post

Thanks for your reply! I also saw that the Sony VPL-HW30 has only 30msec lag in game mode.

It's one of the best for gaming and more expensive than the Panny or Epson. It really come down to how much game you are playing and is it worth the extra couple hundred bucks to get faster input.


Lag time for gaming test/measurement

Ben Q W7000:

50 MS w/ No FI or DI

80 MS with DI on, but FI off.

200 MS with DI on and FI on.


JVC RS 45:

80 MS with no FI


Epson 5010:

80 MS with no FI


Sony HW30:

30 MS with 'Gaming Mode' preset

65 MS with no FI

70-80 MS with FI on low, medium or High
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post #21 of 28 Old 03-04-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlievoviii View Post

It's one of the best for gaming and more expensive than the Panny or Epson. It really come down to how much game you are playing and is it worth the extra couple hundred bucks to get faster input.


Lag time for gaming test/measurement

Ben Q W7000:

50 MS w/ No FI or DI

80 MS with DI on, but FI off.

200 MS with DI on and FI on.


JVC RS 45:

80 MS with no FI


Epson 5010:

80 MS with no FI


Sony HW30:

30 MS with 'Gaming Mode' preset

65 MS with no FI

70-80 MS with FI on low, medium or High

Has there been a lag test done with the Panny? I've heard that its around 30-40MS but haven't seen anything concrete.
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post #22 of 28 Old 03-04-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis343 View Post


Has there been a lag test done with the Panny? I've heard that its around 30-40MS but haven't seen anything concrete.

Try this: it's from projector central

"RESULTS: The fastest projector we have in house at the moment is the Panasonic AR100U, which clocks in at a screaming fast 1.5 frame delay. Right on its heels is the Mitsubishi HC7800, at 2.0 frames lag time. Next in line were the Acer H9500 and Panasonic AE7000, both of which measured 2.5 frames in their game modes. The BenQ W7000 comes in at 3.0 frames. And bringing up the rear is the Epson Home Cinema 5010, with a pokey 5.5 frame delay in its fastest mode.

Frame interpolation systems slow things down on all models as you would expect. With these feature on their low settings, the Acer 9500 and the BenQ W7000 dropped to a sluggish 9 frame delay. (Hey, you just don't use frame interp while gaming). The Epson 5010 dropped to 8.5 frames and the Mitsubishi dropped to 5 frames. The Panasonic AE7000 was least affected by frame interpolation, dropping from 2.5 in game mode to 4.0 in Cinema with FI on low."

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post #23 of 28 Old 03-04-2012, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by charlievoviii View Post

It's one of the best for gaming and more expensive than the Panny or Epson...

Great stuff, thanks!

My biggest issue is ghosting/crosstalk right now. I went to check out the Panasonic and saw a lot of ghosting in 2d to 3d conversion.

I would like to see other projectors to compare. I read that the DLP would probably have less ghosting than LCD/SXRD.
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post #24 of 28 Old 03-05-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualpaul View Post

Great stuff, thanks!

My biggest issue is ghosting/crosstalk right now. I went to check out the Panasonic and saw a lot of ghosting in 2d to 3d conversion.

I would like to see other projectors to compare. I read that the DLP would probably have less ghosting than LCD/SXRD.

yeah Panny have that issues even with movies. I posted in another thread. My buddy bought the Panny A7000 about a week before i got my Epson 5010. He came over and we watch Transformer Dark of the Moon in 3D. The next day he call his vendor and return his projector, they charge him 15% restocking fee. lol Now he got the Epson 5010E with wireless video.
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post #25 of 28 Old 03-05-2012, 04:16 PM
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Consensus appears to be that 7000 is better for gaming and has more features, but 5010 has better image.
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post #26 of 28 Old 03-05-2012, 04:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualpaul View Post

Video is no there yet but audio is pretty easy to be satisfied.

Some days I am thinking I should just buy a cheaper Optoma HD33 or the Acer H9500BD while the technology matures a bit...

The BenQ 7000 just dropped $300 at a forum sponsor, but owners have been sending them back up to three time for firmware upgrades. Optoma HD33 same thing. Acer is silent (but deadly).
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post #27 of 28 Old 03-05-2012, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

The BenQ 7000 just dropped $300 at a forum sponsor, but owners have been sending them back up to three time for firmware upgrades. Optoma HD33 same thing. Acer is silent (but deadly).

Interesting stuff.
Too bad the units have to go back for firmware upgrade, a USB plug can do so much these days.
Not sure what your comment on the Acer mean?
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post #28 of 28 Old 03-12-2012, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Does these new 3D DLP projectors (BenQ W7000, Optoma HD33, Mitsubishi HC7800D) show the rainbow effect?
I've never seen this artifact so I wonder if it is annoying.
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