Ultimate 3D Passive under $3000 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 54 Old 03-10-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

FYI I have no affiliation with Omega. I owned a dual stack BenQ W6000 and tried out 3d with a Harkness silverscreen and cheap polarizers from polarization.com. I also tried using dolby lens as filters on a white screen. In my opinion the only reason to use polarization is if you get JVC projectors and filters matched to them and use a really large screen. I also think it is interesting that Runco switched from polarization on their dual stack system over to the Omega filters (Panavision).

Polarization:
-Pros: High trans% using SPAR or JVC POL filters, Wide range of comfortable glasses

-Cons: requires a silver screen, filters diminish after time, there will be ghosting and how much depends on your filters and screen

Omega 3D:
-Pros: No silver screen, minimal ghosting (should be better than any polarized setup but I will let RDJAM test that), Long life of filters, Cheaper than buying the best polarized filters

-Cons: 65% light loss (about the same as polarized unless you buy SPAR filters for 3LCD or JVC), uncomfortable glasses

Thanks jmcguire525 for very helpful information.
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post #32 of 54 Old 03-11-2012, 08:32 AM
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Here is how i re ground a pair of lenses to fit a more comfortable frame. you can see i heated the new frame to make the front more flat ( improtant for correct geometry ) used a diamond wheel glass grinder to re-shape the glass and them fit them into a new frame.
more comfortable but you will get more stray light if your in a lit room. this is just a DIY project for fun to find a more comfortable frame. i know there are better frames one could use. as long as the opening is slightly smaller than the original glass its not too hard to do,
LL
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post #33 of 54 Old 03-11-2012, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

Here is how i re ground a pair of lenses to fit a more comfortable frame. you can see i heated the new frame to make the front more flat ( improtant for correct geometry ) used a diamond wheel glass grinder to re-shape the glass and them fit them into a new frame.
more comfortable but you will get more stray light if your in a lit room. this is just a DIY project for fun to find a more comfortable frame. i know there are better frames one could use. as long as the opening is slightly smaller than the original glass its not too hard to do,

I like them, I'll have to go shopping when my kit gets here, take the lens out and go hunting for sunglasses
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post #34 of 54 Old 03-13-2012, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

I like them, I'll have to go shopping when my kit gets here, take the lens out and go hunting for sunglasses

if you get some frames you like i can give you some ideas on the geometry that helps make the lenses work right.

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post #35 of 54 Old 03-13-2012, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

if you get some frames you like i can give you some ideas on the geometry that helps make the lenses work right.

Found some oakley's for cheap that will fit, but they are wire frames and don't have changeable lens so idk
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post #36 of 54 Old 03-13-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

Found some oakley's for cheap that will fit, but they are wire frames and don't have changeable lens so idk

most lenses should come out with a heat gun to soften the frame. or put them in hot water to pop out the lenses. our lenses are anealed boro silicate glass and pretty hard. a wet diamond grinder like those used for shaping stained glass work great to re-form the shape. they wont be saftey hardened anymore but still good once you grind the edge. ive dont it to also fit them in several frames.

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post #37 of 54 Old 03-13-2012, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.6pm.com/oakley-mph-square...rome-vr28-lens

I want to try these, tell me what you think, lens size is listed
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post #38 of 54 Old 03-14-2012, 06:01 PM
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Dual polarized setups are a pain and the dual 3d-XL approach often locks up in daily use. There are single polarized projectors for under $3k now.
Have you seen the polarized edition of the optoma HD33?

IT IS AWESOME and uses the same circular polarized glasses as RealD and pretty much everyone else noteworthy.
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post #39 of 54 Old 03-14-2012, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 3DGURU4Life View Post

Dual polarized setups are a pain and the dual 3d-XL approach often locks up in daily use. There are single polarized projectors for under $3k now.
Have you seen the polarized edition of the optoma HD33?

IT IS AWESOME and uses the same circular polarized glasses as RealD and pretty much everyone else noteworthy.

Have you had a dual stack system? I've used 3DXLs without them locking up once, they do take a little bit to get into the right mode but that could also be bc of the cheap HDMI wires I use (love monoprice but when switching modes the cables can cause it to take longer). If you have a dual stack system have you put it side by side with the modulator polarized HD33? I ask because with a dual stack HD33 vs modulator HD33, the dual stack should win every time. With Omega filters you don't need a silver screen and the ghosting is almost non existent compared to a polarized system. The polarized modulator is also acting the same way active glasses would therefore you are still cutting brightness in half, and since the HD33 is 120hz no extra black frames can be added so you are increasing the chance of ghosting even more. The only single projector system that may beat a dual stack for under 3k are the projectors with 480hz panels like the AE7000. Honestly I see no reason to buy the modulator for the HD33 unless you are worried about breaking active glasses to the point that you spend a ton of money on the modulator and a silver screen. I also saw you mentioned a polarized epson 5010 in another thread, do you know if the modulator is able to do 480hz with it and if so how much more does it cost than the 120hz modulator?
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post #40 of 54 Old 03-15-2012, 08:32 AM
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Anyone looked at this solution?
http://www.tru3d.com/Complete_Systems/All_In_One_3D.php

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #41 of 54 Old 03-15-2012, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Metric View Post

Anyone looked at this solution?
http://www.tru3d.com/Complete_Systems/All_In_One_3D.php

^what I said above, unless you are doing a true dual projector passive system why would a modulator be any better than using active glasses? If I am wrong someone please correct me but it seems like a waste of money to buy the modulator and a silver screen just to use cheap glasses unless you are going to have 20 people over watching 3D. Active systems already have ghosting and by adding a polarized modulator to the equation you can only add more ghosting! If you want passive projection buy 2 projectors, IMHO a modulator is half passive and half active and not the way to go.
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post #42 of 54 Old 03-15-2012, 01:06 PM
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Most cross talk would be from active glasses surely? keeping two projectors exact would also introduce issues?

I dunno, just asking, as I would love to use the free glasses from the theater.

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #43 of 54 Old 03-15-2012, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Metric View Post

Most cross talk would be from active glasses surely? keeping two projectors exact would also introduce issues?

I dunno, just asking, as I would love to use the free glasses from the theater.

The same crosstalk caused by active glasses would be present in the modulator polarized setup, the modulator is getting the same signal active glasses do and just switching from L to R polarization.
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post #44 of 54 Old 03-16-2012, 02:16 PM
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Maybe Omega needs a partnership with vendors like Ingriahl (http://www.ingridahl.com/collections/) or Dimensional Optics (http://www.dimensionaloptics.com/) that already offer stylish custom polarized glasses, I would buy some fashion Omega/Panavision glasses.

In the next few years I'm sure we'll see Panavision theaters pop up in our local neighborhoods. Owning these would be just as practical as the RealD style glasses are now.
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post #45 of 54 Old 03-19-2012, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Has anyone done intensive comparisons to a single 3D projector like the Epson 5010 vs. these types of setups, I'm sure some did a couple years back, but wonder how it fairs from recent projectors.

Also, I'd worry about uneven lamp aging between two projectors, as well as uneven gamma and stuff like that (and maybe even just getting it lined up perfectly could be tough, although that isn't a deal-breaker)...

I'll be testing my dual projector set up (Epson 9500 and 7500, which are virtually identical projectors) against my 6010. I'm not even slightly worried about the lamps aging at slightly different rates etc. This new setup will have DI and FI in 3D and the brightness from 2 lamps.
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post #46 of 54 Old 03-19-2012, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I'll be testing my dual projector set up (Epson 9500 and 7500, which are virtually identical projectors) against my 6010. I'm not even slightly worried about the lamps aging at slightly different rates etc. This new setup will have DI and FI in 3D and the brightness from 2 lamps.

I can't wait to see what you think, seems like brightness would be about the same but there should be less ghosting with the dual setup and easier on the eyes since both eyes are getting a constant image.
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post #47 of 54 Old 03-26-2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I'll be testing my dual projector set up (Epson 9500 and 7500, which are virtually identical projectors) against my 6010. I'm not even slightly worried about the lamps aging at slightly different rates etc. This new setup will have DI and FI in 3D and the brightness from 2 lamps.

And??!!!
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post #48 of 54 Old 04-10-2012, 01:24 PM
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Sorry to bump. Any update on this?
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post #49 of 54 Old 04-10-2012, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to bump. Any update on this?

Most users are reporting back on the Omega kit in the Ultimate 3D thread in the +$3000 forum...

There have been very positive reviews and some problems, ghosting is not an issue but some using LCD projectors were having color balance problems. The designer of the filters (Motorman) is active on the forums and has already said he has a redesigned filter in the works to correct the LCD color problems and will exchange the filters for anyone who has already made a purchase. I would not hesitate to order the filters (I already have them too)

Motorman has been very helpful and is answering every question I have seen, even showing his data as to why the LCD projectors were having color problems and what he is doing to fix it. Wolfgang, who has dual Barco 4K projectors, has compared the filters to Infitec's newest filters and the filters they make for Dolby and says they do not need color adjustments for his DLP. He also has LUX numbers showing that the brightness is slightly below both Dolby and Infitec but these test were done with no color correction. I know for a fact Dolby needs color correction and they use it in theaters, after correction the brightness will be lower than Omega. The newest Infitec filters I can't speak for, they do allow a brighter image but may also have ghosting. Even if the Infitech filters are ghost free and brighter, you can't buy them for under $3000, until then I don't think we should compare the two for this discussion.
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post #50 of 54 Old 04-11-2012, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

Most users are reporting back on the Omega kit in the Ultimate 3D thread in the +$3000 forum...

There have been very positive reviews and some problems, ghosting is not an issue but some using LCD projectors were having color balance problems. The designer of the filters (Motorman) is active on the forums and has already said he has a redesigned filter in the works to correct the LCD color problems and will exchange the filters for anyone who has already made a purchase. I would not hesitate to order the filters (I already have them too)

Motorman has been very helpful and is answering every question I have seen, even showing his data as to why the LCD projectors were having color problems and what he is doing to fix it. Wolfgang, who has dual Barco 4K projectors, has compared the filters to Infitec's newest filters and the filters they make for Dolby and says they do not need color adjustments for his DLP. He also has LUX numbers showing that the brightness is slightly below both Dolby and Infitec but these test were done with no color correction. I know for a fact Dolby needs color correction and they use it in theaters, after correction the brightness will be lower than Omega. The newest Infitec filters I can't speak for, they do allow a brighter image but may also have ghosting. Even if the Infitech filters are ghost free and brighter, you can't buy them for under $3000, until then I don't think we should compare the two for this discussion.

Thanks for the update. It looks like promising technology. I'll go a hunt down the other thread.
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post #51 of 54 Old 04-11-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

There is an ultimate 3D thread in the +$3000 forum so I thought I would add one here that details a cheaper setup.

What you will need:
-2 identical projectors with high lumen output (2000+ lumens would be ideal)
-2 3DXL boxes from optoma or a computer graphics card and software
-Omega 3D filters (look on ebay for the complete beta kit)

My recommendation
-2 Acer H7531D $850 each (rated at 2000 lumens)
-2 3DXL boxes $250 each (after selling included glasses)
-Omega 3d kit $350 (includes filters, 5 glasses, and 3D computer software)

Total Cost: $2,550

*This is a passive 3D system based on separating the color spectrum each eye sees and thus doesn't require a special silver screen.

From my understanding of the original thread of Passive 3D, when 2 optoma 3DXL's are used there is no need for PC software. i only bring this up because I want to use passive 3D with my gaming consoles.

EDIT: Nevermind I just noticed that you mentioned above that 2 3DXL's OR a computer graphics card and software. I originally thought it said you needed both when I knew that was wrong. Sorry for the dumb question.
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post #52 of 54 Old 02-28-2013, 08:41 AM
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From my understanding of the original thread of Passive 3D, when 2 optoma 3DXL's are used there is no need for PC software. i only bring this up because I want to use passive 3D with my gaming consoles.


EDIT: Nevermind I just noticed that you mentioned above that 2 3DXL's OR a computer graphics card and software. I originally thought it said you needed both when I knew that was wrong. Sorry for the dumb question.

old thread but new stuff makes a dual projector passive 3d system under 3k even better. i now have a 201 high quality demultiplexer, all in one box unlike the 3d-xl and i will bundle it with the omega 3d optics for under 1000$, you just need two DLP projectors and you ready to game in true passive 3d.

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post #53 of 54 Old 03-07-2013, 04:05 PM
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the ar100u looks like a good deal even at $1000. a pair of these, a demux set or high end HTPC and the right optics and room and you have a system as good as the Runco high end home cinema imho.

I am thinking of buying 2 of the Panasonic AR100's for a passive 3D projection system. Any idea if there is any polarization and how this would affect circular and linear and omega polarization set ups?
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post #54 of 54 Old 03-07-2013, 05:26 PM
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the AR100's are polarized but i cant remember if the green is different that the red and blue. this was talked about in the over 3000$ thread for passive 3d. the omega filters are not polarizers and are not effected at all by either.

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