Considering a projector, Question regarding Kinect - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello All,


I have a build thread in the construction forum, but thought I may get more responses in this forum.

Here are the purposed logistics of my projector set up:

a. Projector: None selected yet, Epson 8350 seems highly regarded though.
b. Ceiling height: 7'9"
c. Screen Size: 100inch
d. Primary Seating: Guessing 11-12ft
e. Projector Mount: Ceiling
f. Screen Height: Top of screen 6inches from ceiling.
g. Throw distance: ~13-14'
h. My Height: 5'8"


I have a question for those projector owners out there that game on the xbox 360 using the kinect. I want to be able to maximize gaming without "shadowing". Given the logistics noted would I be able to play kinect games without casting a shadow on the screen? Suggestions?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 08:39 AM
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if you ceiling mount it, shouldn't be a problem. i use kinect with mine and i have nearly identical dimensions.
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Grubadub.
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 02:15 PM
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You may want to put the projector as close as you can to the screen. I have mine at about the same dimensions as your describing and I get my head shadow on the bottom of screen. I am 5'11. Any taller people playing and its worse yet of course.
The solution is shorter throw and keep that projector as close to the ceiling as possible.. The LCD with lens shift will help.

Jonathan
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanG View Post

You may want to put the projector as close as you can to the screen. I have mine at about the same dimensions as your describing and I get my head shadow on the bottom of screen. I am 5'11. Any taller people playing and its worse yet of course.
The solution is shorter throw and keep that projector as close to the ceiling as possible.. The LCD with lens shift will help.

+1 on this

my projector is 12-13' back, 8' ceiling but pj is low due to a hp screen. Kinect is miserable experience with my pj. heads are in the way, people jumping around and arms etc in the way. Light issues, either not enough or too much. Honestly though, I am not a big fan of the kinect and do not wish to rearrange my theater for such a gimmicky and fussy device, I have another tv we can use it on anyways.

I would also pass on the 8350. Much better pj's out there. We have the 8700 after trying 3 or 4 8350's all with issues.
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 04:28 PM
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I used a HDMI splitter and send the Xbox signal to my receiver and another room for the kids to play the kinect. Lots of room there, leave the cinema for proper games that don't require the lights on.
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys. I have no familiarity with projectors. If the projector was directly above the seating area would the sound/noise (if any) be a concern?
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 09:10 PM
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Yeah, I'm in the don't do it camp. I did it for a while with a ceiling mounted projector with similar dimensions to your set up and it wasn't that comfortable. I'm 6 foot 5 for one, so I was always in the way. Kinect is better with bright, diffuse light, which is miserable for a projector screen. Also, the light from the projector itself sometimes caused problems. And then you'll keep needing to rearrange your chairs to make room, as the Kinect requires a lot of space, more if two people are playing. It's best in a large, brightly lit living room. Maybe if you had a projector mounted really high, like 12 feet up, and with a high gain screen it would be doable.
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post #9 of 20 Old 03-08-2012, 06:10 AM
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I totally disagree,
the kinect is even better in front of a 100 inch plus screen. I have also never seen anywhere that says you need bright light to use it.
While its true you do need space to move around, his seating is about 12' back so should be fine.
DukeBroadway, wait till you try a golf game in front of this huge screen. Its like having your own golf simulator in your house.
Don't listen to anyone that says not to do it, just realize that there could be shadows for the taller people playing.

Jonathan
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-08-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanG View Post

I totally disagree,
the kinect is even better in front of a 100 inch plus screen. I have also never seen anywhere that says you need bright light to use it.
While its true you do need space to move around, his seating is about 12' back so should be fine.
DukeBroadway, wait till you try a golf game in front of this huge screen. Its like having your own golf simulator in your house.
Don't listen to anyone that says not to do it, just realize that there could be shadows for the taller people playing.

I'm speaking from my own experience. Kinect does have an infrared camera so you can use it in the dark, but having done both tracking works much better in a brighter environment. There is less noise in the image so less jitter. Also, some games do need light, because they use an image of you and your surroundings.
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-08-2012, 01:15 PM
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Depending on how picky you are about the projector image optoma has 720p projectors that have a very short throw. I have the gt750 and for 100inches, the throw is about 5ft1in. If you ceiling mount it that close to the screen you shouldn't ever be in the way...unless you're like 8 ft tall and enjoy standing 4 feet away from 100in screen.

I bought this mostly for short throw and 3D capability. If you don't need the 3D the 720 or 700 are cheaper and I believe they are also short throw.

100in = 5ft 1in with 6.6in offset
120in = 6ft 1in with 7.9in offset

(I'm looking for a mount so I just looked up this info).

It is a budget projector so there are tradeoffs (2X color wheel instead of 4-6), blacks not as deep as more expensive projectors, color not as accurate. For a dedicated home theater for someone with midrange equipment, I wouldn't reccomend it. For a more budget user who wants it more for gaming, I think it's a pretty good buy.

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post #12 of 20 Old 03-08-2012, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info guys. Is projector fan noise noticeable? I definitely need to do a lot more research before getting serious on selecting one. The projector would be used for 70% gaming and probably 30% movies/TV.

Is it pretty common for people to "offset" the projector so its not center?

Thanks again.
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-09-2012, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Broadway View Post

Thanks for all the info guys. Is projector fan noise noticeable? I definitely need to do a lot more research before getting serious on selecting one. The projector would be used for 70% gaming and probably 30% movies/TV.

Is it pretty common for people to "offset" the projector so its not center?

Thanks again.

People with lens shift on their projectors might offset but it really depends on the setup and the space. Some people have lights/fans in their ceilings which mess up the ceiling mount so they have to mount off to one side or the other. Some don't want to ceiling mount so being able to offset, helps get the projector out of the way.

Any additional option is additional bucks. For me personally, I don't have a lot of extra money, so I'd rather spend money on the image/3D or other options over placement flexibility. It all depends on how much you want to spend.

Some questions to ask yourself:
1) Can I mount either on ceiling or table without lens shift?
2) How much do I care about 1080p over 720p?
3) Do I want 3D or not?

Answering these 3 questions will help you figure out what kind of projector to be looking at, it will establish a budget.

720p projector is approx 400-600, 720p with 3D 750-900, 1080p = 800-1000, 1080p 3D= 1500-3000.

These are very approximate but should give you a starting point.

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post #14 of 20 Old 03-09-2012, 08:47 PM
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Beware of using lots of image shift with some pj's as it can cause image quality issues. 8350 is one of those pj's. The comment about the light from the pj effecting the kinect is also true, I see this while playing darts all the time, makes the kinect jumpy.

the 8350/8700 are very quiet in eco mode.

..and yes, golf in front of a large screen is really cool.
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-11-2012, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank for the input. I havent thought that much about 3D. Sounds like a DLP projector is preferred over LCD for gaming. I have been reading up on the Optoma HD33, BenQ w6000, and the Mits hc4000. Looks like those would around my ~$1500 range. I think anything I get will need some vertical lens shift. If needed this would come in handy if my head got in the way of kinecting. Looks the projectors I have mentioned are long throw. Recommendations on short throw projectors?
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post #16 of 20 Old 03-11-2012, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Just read that the HD33 does not have any lens shift
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post #17 of 20 Old 04-11-2012, 09:45 AM
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Sorry guys, newbie here. Was hesitant to post but hey what the heck.
How about using one of those Epson Ultra Short Throw projectors? Such as EB-450w. Would surely eliminate shadows. Just not sure of quality for gaming. Planning to buy soon! Thanks
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post #18 of 20 Old 04-12-2012, 03:05 PM
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Any short throw or ultra short throw (not sure if there is some kind of real classification or companies just add in the ultra) should be fine for gaming with kinect from a setup perspective. Of course you want to check the lag cause a long lag time would be annoying for gaming.

If I am sitting next to my gt750 the picture would be way to big for the viewing distance. Short throw usually means the projector will be in front of the viewing audience.

As for the EB450w, for my setup I'd pass on it, no hdmi ports. Many receivers can take a s-vid, or component input and output the video through hdmi. But I don't think any receiver (due to copyright issues) can take an hdmi input and output the video with a different kind of connection.

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post #19 of 20 Old 04-20-2012, 05:34 AM
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thanks for the reply, @wyen78

i guess the EB-450w is a bad example. there are other Epson short throw projectors with HDMI (Epson EB-430) that i can use. im a bit cautious about the quality of the image -- are there any drawbacks about being a short throw projector?

here's my dilemma. im about to put up a shop filled with Kinect stations. thinkin whether i should get a 46" LED monitors or short-throw projectors (they go roughly the same price) to be used for each station. of course, bigger is better.. but then im not sure..

distance of user from projector/monitor is minimum 6 feet (as required by kinect), so im not too worried about the screen being too big for the user
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post #20 of 20 Old 04-23-2012, 01:00 AM
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Optoma short throw is best with Xbox or ps3.

I use a a ps3 move with no issue. You may want a USB extender if the connect uses USB.

A short throw puts the projector in front of you a ways, so you cannot get in front of it. Cats, however, can. Plus it's warm in front so they will.

I run a HD20 1080p for 2d movies, and use the GT720 for 3d movies and games, and 3d games.

The brightness on optima short throw is great, and having it for gaming means
Less wear on my movie unit.

I think the 720 got replaced by the 750
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