The split is a bad idea - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I read the statement from Alan and failed to buy into the logic.

He said “We have done this due to the cheaper presentation projectors that have over run the forum†and “These are great little projectorsâ€. Taken together, these are very patronizing statements.

Later he said, “What has driven us to do this is the dealers that have come along with this growth and their tactics and use of the forum for sales.†So the answer is to divide the forum into smaller groups so resellers can target members better - shouldn't it be the opposite?

Helping resellers is fine as I can control the MPs. Lets not further split the forum into “High End Cables†and “Cat 5 Cables†or “Stewart†and “DIY Parkland screensâ€. It really borders on promoting snobbishness.
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post #2 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 03:08 PM
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Why not just consider it a just another thread...?
they have digital projectors, crt projetors, rptv, home theatre construction..
why not projetors over 5000 and projetors under 5000? its just a couple of clicks ether way.
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post #3 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 03:29 PM
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I must say that I strongly agree with cyborge1. I simply cant understand all the fuzz about the spilt. I find it the most reasonable thing to do, when the post amount came over a certain level.
Honestly I dont care about if Alan thinks that the Panny AE100 or other PJs are budget presentation PJ or not and I also dont think you should put to much interpretation into this.

What Im worried about is something Steve mentioned in an other thread about the AVSforum is going to move to some kind of subcription (money) solution.

/Lennart aka lenny100
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post #4 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PSue
It really borders on promoting snobbishness.
And a lot of these threads border on ingratitude. AVS spends the bucks and the time to provide the forum and they do their best to strike a fair balance--but they aren't perfect. When you start running your own board then you can decide on how it's run. I haven't always agreed with every decision Alan and David have made in the past but I support them nonetheless.

It's easy to be thankful when someone makes a decision that goes your way. Much less so when that decision runs counter to your wishes. A genuine show of support is made when you appreciate that someone struggled over a difficult decision and made one--doing the best they can as a falable human being.

Too many of you are internalizing these statements. What exactly do you hope to accomplish here? Are you looking for an appology? Will it really make your day and help you feel better about yourself if you get one? I'm sure that worse things have happened to you than having someone you don't know upset your delicate sensibilities.

--Jerome
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post #5 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 03:38 PM
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Lenny read the message in purple at the top of the forum "A brief history" I think what he is saying is that there will be a way for people to make voulentary contributions if they so wish it..

I for one do not mind paying for something that gives me my moneys worth! I have gotten alot from this forum so if they did make it a subscrition service I would pay any reasonable price... Heck I pay for Cable, AOL, My phone bill so people can call me all hours of the day and night and try and pressure me into buy stuff... why not pay for usefull tips, advice, helping hand....etc all that have been found here!

Don't get me wrong I always want to pay as little as I can but am willing to pay for what I get! as long as its worth it.
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post #6 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 03:46 PM
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To cyborge1

My concern about the subcription is that a forum are a user to user communication, much like the newsgroups. I cant see myself paying for access to a forum.
But if a subcription AVSforum includes professional reviews and etc, a fee based edition is okay.
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post #7 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 04:24 PM
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This forum will remain open for free just as it is.

We will be adding a pay section or new forum where anything goes including dealers being able to participate and post sales or let members know they are a dealer for a certain brand. Dealers posts or links will not be pulled. members can post links where to buy something or what they paid through who.
This is what everyone wants.

The fee will be small for this area.

By giving the dealers a place to participate it will help to keep the rest of the forum run by the rules.
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post #8 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 04:34 PM
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I don't know about that.. you pay for Internet access right? that lets you get out on to the Internet and look around do things, look up reviews buy things. along with that fee your paying your ISP is money that is paying for the news service after all some one has to pay for all of the servers and connections that allow people to post and read replies.

I used to run a BBS in the 80s so I know alittle about what AVS is going thru.. Its very hard to make everyone happy( some times its hard to make anyone happy!! lol ) and I am sure it takes a lot of time, effort, and MONEY to keep this forum running. If your choice was to pay a small fee to keep this forum running so people can share with each other or let it wither away and die what would you choose?

I for one don't want to have to browse this forum and have lots of annoying popup advertisements fill my screen! I am afraid that if this system gets too big that might be the only way for them to afford to keep it running.
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post #9 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 04:45 PM
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Did you really need to start another thread to make this statement? This was the whole problem from the start! People not using existing threads! The thing that bothers me now is we have this other "preferred" forum where moderation will be stricter and we, the lowly budget minded individuals, will have to wade through endless post after endless post from people who can't or refuse to do searches and post in existing threads in this forum.

GRRR!
Brian

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post #10 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 05:05 PM
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Trust me, this will be the fun forum to hang out, the other will be mainly full of users who had their theaters put together by their installers!

DIY on the cheap is always more fun!

Robert Clark
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post #11 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 06:41 PM
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And the point of starting another thread like this is....?

Boggles my mind why people are crying over this and statements about lower priced pjs as being "cheap" Did you create the pj in order to take it so personally? Curious

ROB
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post #12 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsaliga
And a lot of these threads border on ingratitude. AVS spends the bucks and the time to provide the forum and they do their best to strike a fair balance--but they aren't perfect. When you start running your own board then you can decide on how it's run. I haven't always agreed with every decision Alan and David have made in the past but I support them nonetheless.
I think that AVS gets as much or more out of the participants as the participants get out of AVS. The value of the AVS forums isn't that someone is being generous enough to foot the bill for servers but the fact that a critical mass of contributors exist.

Now the initial catalyst was the great advice that Dave and Alan provided at the start which gathered other folks to avs and filled a valuable need within the community. But as terrific as that may be, it's my belief that this community would still exist somewhere else in some form.

That is did start here, pretty much means that other nascent communities never achieved critical mass and fell by the wayside.

The dollars that AVS invests into this forum protects their editorial control over it. Whether that's represents a good or bad ROI is up to them...but since they choose to do so when there are other mechanisms in this day and age indicates that they think there is positive business value to them to do so.

I belong to a couple of other communities that are user run and supported. That's not better or worse but they do exist and operate quite well on user contributions at services like ezboard or independent fan sites.

Nigel
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post #13 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alan Gouger
This forum will remain open for free just as it is.

We will be adding a pay section or new forum where anything goes including dealers being able to participate and post sales or let members know they are a dealer for a certain brand. Dealers posts or links will not be pulled. members can post links where to buy something or what they paid through who.
This is what everyone wants.

The fee will be small for this area.

By giving the dealers a place to participate it will help to keep the rest of the forum run by the rules.
How odd...I think I'd prefer to pay for a section without dealer advertising and with moderation but perhaps in a slightly different way where rant threads are moved to a rants section rather than locked or deleted.

Nigel
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post #14 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rlindo
And the point of starting another thread like this is....?
I believe the other threads were locked.

It might have been more productive to nail up a "rants" thread to the top to let folks "get it out of their system" and lock down any new threads with a pointer to the rant thread.

Nigel
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post #15 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 07:35 PM
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A rant board is a fantastic idea. A BMW board I frequent has one, and it let's people get stuff off of their chests.... even unrelated stuff. The neat thing is that it gives the moderators the ability to move rants to the "rant" board, allowing the rant to continue if people wish, but not impacting the main board. Sometimes we all just NEED TO RANT! :D
( For instance, right now, I feel like ranting because Toronto Maple Leafs won and I'll be up half the night listening to the incessant screaming and Honking! Not to worry, there's a rant board a few clicks away! :) )

BTW: This board split is a good thing. Those of us who'se interest lies in cheaper projectors don't want or need to see posts about $10k Marantz or Runco units. I certainly don't want to see them because I'd never spend that much on a projector. It won't work as well when you are interested in threshold units like the PLV60 which MSRP higher than $5k but street below it.

- JP in TOronto
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post #16 of 17 Old 05-14-2002, 08:37 PM
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Price point is not the dividing line. Alan had said in his statement:

†Please note: Sub 5k digital Projectors such as the PLV60 clearly designed for HT will stay in the 5k + forum. As an example other projectors in this category are the Sony 10 and 11ht as well as the Sony 400Q.â€

The dividing line seems to be the perceived quality of the projectors. Some individuals may be upset that they paid more money for a projector and the amount of improvement is minimal. You will see this frequently with audiophiles who judge the sound of a system by its price tag. Sort of the Mini Pearl syndrome. I wonder if the “hi end†forum members keep their price tags attach to their units in their homes? Anyway, as Li On said, its all business.
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post #17 of 17 Old 05-15-2002, 04:09 AM
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cyborge1

I understand your arguements for paying for the board and I also can see the dilema the forum is in. Although Alan stated in this thread that this forum is still going to be free.

I must admit I havent really made up my mind about the question of paying for content on the internet. It has its ups and downsides...

For the time being I properly wont pay for content because Im too used to get it for free and the payment schemes I have seen for paying is way over the top. (Something like paying 10$ for a 8 page review)
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Closed Thread Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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