Most reliable brand in projrctors? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 01:47 PM
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Maybe someone should start a thread on PJ's reliability, at least by brand if not model....I am not sure if that would be allowed by this Forum, though....
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post #32 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariokrt64 View Post

Maybe someone should start a thread on PJ's reliability, at least by brand if not model....I am not sure if that would be allowed by this Forum, though....

AVS wouldn't have an issue with it but if it's not objective with the data collection, it will just become another LCD vs DLP is better thread and be closed quickly.

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post #33 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 07:11 PM
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Yes. This question shows how hard it is to do good science. We would need at the start a random sample of projector reliability. Any self selected sample of people introduces an unknown amount of bias. Even if we correct for the different numbers of projectors sold by each brand, which would be easy, we would be left with the impossible task of estimating how biased the group of Acer customers was vs. the Epson owners. Good science begins with randomized samples in your data, and that will not occur with any forum topic questions where people choose whether to participate or not.

For example. It might be that owners of less popular projectors tend to be more enthusiastic about their model and less critical of flaws, perhaps because they chose that one partly because it was not ordinary and mainstream. The most enthusiastic among them would participate more in a forum questionnaire. We could not know how much that affected the results unless we compared them in a randomized sample. We simply cannot make accurate conclusions without objective, randomized data. Sorry to be so strident.

On the other hand, my own non scientific study concludes that all the manufacturers are reliable enough.
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post #34 of 42 Old 04-28-2012, 07:40 AM
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To my knowledge, no one has ever done a controlled test between LCD and DLP projectors with an impartial group of people to really arrive at any meaningful conclusions of comparative PQ. People who have spent their hard earned money on single chip DLP projectors will naturally turn a blind eye (no pun intended) to the RBE issues.
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post #35 of 42 Old 04-29-2012, 10:20 AM
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I've talked to enough installers and dealers and had enough experience with projectors myself to know that when a DLP does not have a specific issue relating to reliability, it is definitely generally more reliable than LCD or LCOS. It's also common sense if you study projector designs.


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post #36 of 42 Old 04-29-2012, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

To my knowledge, no one has ever done a controlled test between LCD and DLP projectors with an impartial group of people to really arrive at any meaningful conclusions of comparative PQ. People who have spent their hard earned money on single chip DLP projectors will naturally turn a blind eye (no pun intended) to the RBE issues.

Granted it was about 10 years ago, but TI did sponsor an independent 3rd party (Munsell Color Science Laboratory) to do a test of reliability and longevity. I believe it caused a stir at the time and Epson responded harshly to it, calling it an unrealistic study. Keep in mind it was a long time ago, both techs have evolved quite a bit since then.

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post #37 of 42 Old 04-30-2012, 07:34 AM
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[quote=DrNegative;21965850]Granted it was about 10 years ago, but TI did sponsor an independent 3rd party (Munsell Color Science Laboratory) to do a test of reliability and longevity. I believe it caused a stir at the time and Epson responded harshly to it, calling it an unrealistic study. Keep in mind it was a long time ago, both techs have evolved quite a bit since then.
QUOTE]

As I recall, this was a totally unrealistic test with TI hammering the LCD panels non-stop 24/7. Too bad TI has never done a test to see how single chip DLP affects the general population in terms of RBE perception, headache and nausea.
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post #38 of 42 Old 04-30-2012, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post


As I recall, this was a totally unrealistic test with TI hammering the LCD panels non-stop 24/7. Too bad TI has never done a test to see how single chip DLP affects the general population in terms of RBE perception, headache and nausea.

Actually, TI claims to have performed that test as well. They never published the white-paper on it though, or at least I can't find it.

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A study by Decision Analyst, financed by TI, shows that rainbow is a non-issue:

The results of this research indicate that no more than 1% to 2% of the population would experience color break-up effect' while viewing content on a DLP television or projector. Three respondents out of a total of 926 made comments relating to visual aberrations that may indicate color break-up effect'.

Less than 2% of total respondents expressed disagreement when asked to indicate their level of agreement on statements relating to picture quality.

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post #39 of 42 Old 04-30-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

Actually, TI claims to have performed that test as well. They never published the white-paper on it though, or at least I can't find it.

Sometimes people need to be shown what to look for.
My wife and a couple of our friends never said anything about RBE until I pointed it out to them.

Once I pointed out the RBE, they found it distracting.

The same can be said for pointing out banding and macroblocking.
Most do not notice these issues but once you educate them, there's no undoing the damage.

If you want to see if people are RBE sensitive, have them watch a black & white movie or one with a lot of dark scenes with candle flicker.

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post #40 of 42 Old 04-30-2012, 05:00 PM
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Some DLP's have FAR FAR worse RBE than others, it just depends on the projector, color wheel speed, segments, and various factors. My Viewsonic Pro8200 barely has any RBE, I'm assuming the Optoma hd33 doesn't either since it's a 6x wheel (I saw one but not long enouh to tell). I know these 2 DLP's (pro8200 and hd33) have the least RBE under 2k. Many of the people complaining of RBE on a 6x wheel have the brightness set way too high.

I couldn't watch certain movies on the Mits hc4000 without being bothered by RBE (even though most people can), but on the Pro8200 it's a non-issue. I doubt almost anyone that has the brightness set correctly on the Pro8200 or Optoma hd33 will see enough RBE to be bothered, maybe some TINY percentage. I have always been more RBE sensitive than most.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #41 of 42 Old 04-30-2012, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I've talked to enough installers and dealers and had enough experience with projectors myself to know that when a DLP does not have a specific issue relating to reliability, it is definitely generally more reliable than LCD or LCOS. It's also common sense if you study projector designs.

My 2x mitsubishi hc3100's and infocus sp7210 disagree. All three projectors had complete color wheel failures at or before 800 hrs. My neighbor's mitsubishi hd1000 made it to approx 2000 hrs before the color began to whine, he's now searching for a replacement.

I've also owned a marantz vp12s4, infocus IN78, and planar 7130. My current projector is an Infocus IN82 and I'm closing in on 6000 hrs... the color wheel seems to be holding up fine. I don't care for lcd or lcos, hence my persistence with dlp projectors.

I don't know how you can say "dlp does not have a specific issue relating to reliability" when color wheel's are spinning upwards of 10000 rpm. They're ticking time bombs from my experience, even if they're using quality brushless motors.
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post #42 of 42 Old 05-01-2012, 06:46 AM
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Older projectors have much worse color wheels because the designs are based on older hard drive motors (which are not reliable). I said that many times before and somehow that point was skipped over.

I am talking about recent model projectors, anyhow a sample size of 5-10 isn't enough. I said earlier when DLP does not have a reliability issue with a specific model, not that it will never have a reliability issue. We know the color wheels can break, but it's just one thing. That problem is much more common on certain DLP's than others (especially older ones).


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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