Most reliable brand in projrctors? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 04-21-2012, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I was planning to buy the Epson 8350 but, i have been seeing a lot of bad reviews. A lot of auto iris problems, dimming image, bad quality lamps, color bars across the image, spots. Now im affraid to buy it, which brand is the most reliable? Which projector instead the 8350? Thank you.
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post #2 of 42 Old 04-21-2012, 06:19 PM
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I own two DLP projectors: Optoma HD70 and Benq W1100.

The Optoma HD70 still works flawlessly. The W1100 has 1,800hrs on it and works well too.
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post #3 of 42 Old 04-22-2012, 12:28 AM
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Unfortunately there is no data out there to answer your question.
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post #4 of 42 Old 04-22-2012, 01:00 PM
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The reliability of various makes is not documented systematically. Generally, we see more complaints from the more popular makes, apparently because there are so many of them out there and some fail.

However, I venture to say that no manufacturer comes close to Epson in the reliability of their customer service and warranty work. Epson is renown for making it right when something does go wrong with one of their projectors.
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post #5 of 42 Old 04-22-2012, 01:30 PM
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Unfortunately you will find that people with problems come looking for answers and find forums like this. The larger majority of owners with no problems that where not members to start with, don't come looking to tell us how happy they are.

Personally I am a DLP fan and would not buy A 3 LCD from any manufacture.. but that's why they have Chocolate and Vanilla!

Good luck with whatever you purchase!
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post #6 of 42 Old 04-22-2012, 02:03 PM
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the fact that there are many more dlp than lcd pjs made says some thing(1080p).
32 lcd
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15
dlp 203
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15
hell thre are 25 dlp/led pjs
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15
and there are about 40 dila,sxrd,lcos

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post #7 of 42 Old 04-23-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all. Any recomendation in this price range??
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post #8 of 42 Old 04-23-2012, 03:59 PM
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This is actually a very good question...none of the reviews, rarely discuss this topic as there does not seem to be available any reliability surveys, similarly to what Consumers Report does in their annual auto issue.....

I myself am the owner of a Mitsu HC6800 LCD which have been very reliable for almost three years, only filter cleaning. Have heard little complaints in the HC6800 thread. This PJ is now superseeded by new model. Almost 1500 hrs on the lamp.

Recently bought a refurb. JVC DLA-HD250 with factory warranty.
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post #9 of 42 Old 04-24-2012, 09:48 AM
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Reliability of a projector depends on many factors. LCD projectors can sometimes show polarizer and panel damage after about 5000 hours of use. Single chip DLP projectors suffer suprisingly often from color wheel disintegration and bearing failure. So both technologies have their unique reliability issues. Common to both though is reliability reduction due to heat and dust. Someone who mounts a projector close to a ceiling, or worse inside an enclosure, as opposed to on an open shelf, is going to have early failures of electronics and optics due to higher internal temperatures. Same thing if the filters are not vacuumed on a regular basis. A cool air conditioned dust-free room goes a long way to maximizing the life of a projector. I had a Panasonic projector for over 7 years with the original lamp at over 4500 hours before I sprung for a new projector. Everybody has their favourite brands, so I doubt that anyone can answer the OP's question.
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post #10 of 42 Old 04-24-2012, 10:59 AM
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If we base it purely on how often we see problems in a forum (considering how long I've been in this forum), LCD is the least reliable, LCOS in the middle, and DLP is the most reliable.

Newer color wheels really do not break that often, I've been in most every thread in these forums for years, I see hundreds of times more LCD dust blob or panel degradation issues than I see color wheel problems. A lot of the posts I see on color wheel issues are related to much older projectors often purchased in the used market, many of them I see are on Optomas or very old Mits (almost never on a New Mits).

For instance, in the Benq w6000, Mits hc4000, and Mits hc3800 threads, I have seen but only a handful total color wheel problems in 4 years. We know these projectors have been big sellers, with thousands of users. Definitely a few more color wheel issues in the Benq thread than the Mits (which is almost unheard of), but neither one have enough to be alarming.

In the Panny 4000 and Epson 8700ub threads, I have seen hundreds of reports of dust blobs and other issues. I can confidently say that DLP is more reliable than LCD on average.

For sure on some of the older model DLP's, color wheels were the achilles heel, it just isn't that way anymore (it can still happen, but it's much rarer).


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post #11 of 42 Old 04-24-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Unfortunately there is no data out there to answer your question.

Sure there is. You just have to provided biased information.

IMO, LCD gets more visibility on issues because they sell more units than other technologies when it comes to home theater.

There are no perfect projectors and they all have compromises.
No one has done a scientific assessment on projector failures and all you will get are opinions based on anecdotal information.

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post #12 of 42 Old 04-24-2012, 06:35 PM
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IMO, LCD gets more visibility on issues because they sell more units than other technologies when it comes to home theater.

I doubt it .There isnt a high end lcd and high end is around a third of the market.With around 40,000 ht pj,s (1080p) yearly.32 lcd 1080p pjs made and 203 dlp 1080p pjs made.

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post #13 of 42 Old 04-24-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

I doubt it .There isnt a high end lcd and high end is around a third of the market.With around 40,000 ht pj,s (1080p) yearly.32 lcd 1080p pjs made and 203 dlp 1080p pjs made.

Facts and data or this post is another opinion.

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post #14 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

No one has done a scientific assessment on projector failures and all you will get are opinions based on anecdotal information.

It may be anecdotal, but it's easy to determine some validity when the issues are far off balance. For instance, I have read every post in the Mits hc3800, hc4000 thread for 4 years. I recall 2 color wheel issues, maybe 3, no dust blob ever, 3-4 lamp issues (out of thousands of post), and almost every RMA'd unit came back working normally.

There are some DLP's more prone to issues for sure, but it's pretty rare to see a problem on a new DLP unit. Also even if we just base it on the fact that the optics are not suceptible to convergence issues, that means fewer returns, and fewer returns means a cleaner RMA pool.

Even anecdotal can mean something when it's overwhelming. I'm not bashing LCD, I'm just saying anyone involved in projectors long enough knows it is the least reliable (although JVC LCOS might have to be put with the LCD's, but they don't get dust blobs).


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post #15 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 07:44 AM
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Maybe some LCD owners never clean their filters and/or are running projectors in really dusty rooms. I still have my Panasonic AE700 purchased in 2004 and there is not a spec of dust on the screen image. My AE4000 came free of dust blobs and remains that way because I follow the manufacturers recommendations on filter maintainance. If you hang your LCD projector close to a popcorn ceiling so it runs extra hot and collects all the ceiling particles, and never clean the filters (or the room for that matter), what kind of reliability do you expect?
Todays LCD projectors have the inorganic polarizers which are reported to be much more robust than the old organic polarizers. So the failure of polarizers at around 5000 hours is probably no longer an issue. DLP color wheels spin at around 10,000 rpm. The bearings for the motor and the wheels probably have a life of less than 10,000 hours at this speed.
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post #16 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It may be anecdotal, but it's easy to determine some validity when the issues are far off balance. For instance, I have read every post in the Mits hc3800, hc4000 thread for 4 years. I recall 2 color wheel issues, maybe 3, no dust blob ever, 3-4 lamp issues (out of thousands of post), and almost every RMA'd unit came back working normally.

There are some DLP's more prone to issues for sure, but it's pretty rare to see a problem on a new DLP unit. Also even if we just base it on the fact that the optics are not suceptible to convergence issues, that means fewer returns, and fewer returns means a cleaner RMA pool.

Even anecdotal can mean something when it's overwhelming. I'm not bashing LCD, I'm just saying anyone involved in projectors long enough knows it is the least reliable (although JVC LCOS might have to be put with the LCD's, but they don't get dust blobs).

Unless you have gone to every home theater/AV forum on the Internet, gathered data, created a spreadsheet and made it public that points to sources, then your observation is just a myopic view of failures to just this forum. Even that is anecdotal sense it's based on memory and not gathered data with sources and amounts of failures from a report.

If I based failures on this forum, then this would be the case:

Don't buy JVC/LCOS because the bulb will fail or dim in less than 200 hours. It will have chromatic aberration if the lens is not centered and you may see clouding in the corners or blooming around text.
Don't buy LCD because the bulb may explode and you might get a dust blob.
Also, you will not get perfect convergence with LCD/LCOS.

Don't buy DLP because the color wheel will fail, bulb will run hot, light leaks around the case, black level is awful compared to LCD/LCOS and fan noise is extremely loud.

Anyway, we can all speculate all day long but at the end of the day, it comes down to getting a product that reliably works for the individual.

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post #17 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Unless you have gone to every home theater/AV forum on the Internet, gathered data, created a spreadsheet and made it public that points to sources, then your observation is just a myopic view of failures to just this forum. Even that is anecdotal sense it's based on memory and not gathered data with sources and amounts of failures from a report.

If I based failures on this forum, then this would be the case:

Don't buy JVC/LCOS because the bulb will fail or dim in less than 200 hours. It will have chromatic aberration if the lens is not centered and you may see clouding in the corners or blooming around text.
Don't buy LCD because the bulb may explode and you might get a dust blob.
Also, you will not get perfect convergence with LCD/LCOS.

Don't buy DLP because the color wheel will fail, bulb will run hot, light leaks around the case, black level is awful compared to LCD/LCOS and fan noise is extremely loud.

Anyway, we can all speculate all day long but at the end of the day, it comes down to getting a product that reliably works for the individual.

Well said. I think a newcomer reading through the AVS Forum would conclude that all projectors are inherently unreliable compared with say a CRT television. And that is probably true. My Sony Wega 36 ins Trinitron CRT TV is now 15 years old and performing as good as the day I purchased it. Find me a projector that can even come close to that!
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post #18 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Facts and data or this post is another opinion.

Quote:


Originally Posted by eat meat View Post
I doubt it .There isnt a high end lcd and high end is around a third of the market.With around 40,000 ht pj,s (1080p) yearly.32 lcd 1080p pjs made and 203 dlp 1080p pjs made.

this isnt opinion,I have posted the sales data before.can you point out a 20,000$ HT lcd projector?
( Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) how about a 2000lumen or under lcd HT for 10,000$ ?
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15

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post #19 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

Well said. I think a newcomer reading through the AVS Forum would conclude that all projectors are inherently unreliable compared with say a CRT television. And that is probably true. My Sony Wega 36 ins Trinitron CRT TV is now 15 years old and performing as good as the day I purchased it. Find me a projector that can even come close to that!

Completely different technologies. You might as well be comparing your Sony to a Ford Fairlane.

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post #20 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaven View Post

I was planning to buy the Epson 8350 but, i have been seeing a lot of bad reviews. A lot of auto iris problems, dimming image, bad quality lamps, color bars across the image, spots. Now im affraid to buy it, which brand is the most reliable? Which projector instead the 8350? Thank you.

As with many things in life, you cannot base your purchase on just reliability .. although it is an important issue, any CE device can have problems ..

Epson stands behind their product with one of the best warrantees in the business .. if I were in the market, I would not hesitate to buy the 8350 if it fit my needs ..

I find that actual user opinions, as reflected on sites that do a large sales volume, are usually a good indication ..

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post #21 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

Completely different technologies. You might as well be comparing your Sony to a Ford Fairlane.

Not that different. The end result is the same - to produce an electronic motion picture. Sure one is analog and one is digital, but who can argue that LCD and DLP based televisions and projectors are not in the same league, reliability wise, with the old CRT technology.
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post #22 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Unless you have gone to every home theater/AV forum on the Internet, gathered data, created a spreadsheet and made it public that points to source.

Nah, I don't base it on one source. Anyhow, I don't want to argue about how everything is statistically irrelevant, people can see patterns in things sometimes, doesn't have to be perfect. Patterns are not always about perfection, it is about a general pattern. Sure there can be anomalies.

The RMA pool is cleaner, period, I don't need statistics to know that.

I am not saying buy DLP over LCD because it is more reliable, I agree with the previous poster, just get a warranty and take care of the projector, then you should be fine. That doesn't change the fact that some DLP's are definitely more reliable than some of the LCD's out there right now, if nothing else because when you RMA it you get a cleaner unit. They are smaller, there is fewer parts in them, the optics are single-chip based, and I could go on and on. The color wheel is only one thing that can break. People are so adamant about arguing their tech, I just don't care, I am just saying what most of us already know to be true.

However, convergence issues are not that rare.


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post #23 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

this isnt opinion,I have posted the sales data before.can you point out a 20,000$ HT lcd projector?
( Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) how about a 2000lumen or under lcd HT for 10,000$ ?
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15

You stated that high end projectors are 1/3 of the projector market without providing facts.
*I assume you mean 1/3 of units sold and not total sales/revenue.

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post #24 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 11:58 AM
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All projector technologies have their tradeoffs and issues. Personally, I think we live in an age of such rapid technological progress, when I buy a product these days, especially a consumer electronic one, I just assume I will be replacing it in 2-3 years for something superior. I pretty much have to do that with my computers to keep pace with work.
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post #25 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

You stated that high end projectors are 1/3 of the projector market without providing facts.
*I assume you mean 1/3 of units sold and not total sales/revenue.

This is widely known HT pjs is a niche market.
this has been discussed before,I have posted the links before ,home theater(hd ) pj sales are around 40,000 yearly and dropping ,I assume due to giant tvs getting cheaper.Its around 1/4 to 1/3 of that 40,000 pjs is 20,000$ and above ht pjs.

biz pj,s are another story and even pico/small led pjs have pushed(total sold biz and ht) pj numbers up.

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post #26 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for an lcd because i need the lens shift feature. I think that i will go with the Epson 8350 anyway, thanks for your statements, have a good life.
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post #27 of 42 Old 04-25-2012, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by camaven View Post

I'm looking for an lcd because i need the lens shift feature. I think that i will go with the Epson 8350 anyway, thanks for your statements, have a good life.

1080p dlp with hor. and vert. lens shift -131 Projectors Found
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15

1080p lcd with hor. and vert. lens shift-24 Projectors Found
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15

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post #28 of 42 Old 04-26-2012, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

1080p dlp with hor. and vert. lens shift -131 Projectors Found
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15

1080p lcd with hor. and vert. lens shift-24 Projectors Found
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15

And they are all within his price range & STILL BEING PRODUCED as new right?

*If he's looking at the 8350, I don't think a $2000+ projectors are on his radar.
Let's try and provide him some usable information instead of throwing a dump truck load of data that is not relevant to his search.

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post #29 of 42 Old 04-26-2012, 11:54 PM
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STILL BEING PRODUCED as new

yes,Include Discontinued Projectors (*) was not checked,the numbers go up to 203 and 77 if you include discontinued pjs.It shows up after you select a drop down box or check a box.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm

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post #30 of 42 Old 04-27-2012, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

yes,Include Discontinued Projectors (*) was not checked,the numbers go up to 203 and 77 if you include discontinued pjs.It shows up after you select a drop down box or check a box.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm

OK. You win. All projectors on that list are new and within the price of THIS specific forum.
DLP is king. LCD is bad. We get it. Glad I don't have to hear a color wheel screaming, fan howling or see rainbows though.

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