Sanyo PLV-Z2 - Making loud noise (fan gone bad?) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 04-22-2012, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't used my Z2 a ton, still working on the first bulb. Recently, I did my ritual of removing dust bunnies, I must have done this at last a dozen times now. I still have the original crappy filter in my Z2. Removed the screws, pulled the cover off. I took a can of compressed gas (Costco bought), for which I have a special tube attached, not the regular straight one. This special one is curved, so I can keep the can erect, and the end is sealed but has a couple of small holes punched on either side next to the end. The effect is to blow gas in opposite directions, does a decent job of getting the dust bunnies out if I'm thorough enough.

Well, I put the machine back to use and there's a noise... sometimes. A tap on the machine and the noise went away. It was as if a fan's blades were touching a surface and a tap caused some play to appear to stop the blades from hitting a surface. This syndrome continued next few times I used the machine. I took the cover off again (I needed to clear another couple dust bunnies too), and I had thought that maybe I had put the cover back wrong or something that would cause the fan to barely touch some surface. I could see nothing.

The problem continued, and I removed the cover again and inspected things. I thought I could see where the fan blade (it's on the left side as you look at the machine from in front, looking at the lens) was touching something. It's the smaller of the two fans, the one more toward the back. I can see it from the outside and it says on the label: DC PICO ACE 25. I'm guessing it's 60mm. I plugged the machine in, turned it on and off a few times. It looks not easy to disassemble things and replace that fan, but that may be what I have to do.

Yesterday I was using the Z2 and the noise started at the beginning, a tap or two and it went away IIRC. However, it came back and louder than usual an hour or two into using it. The room was pretty warm and this may have something to do with it. The room was around 83 F. Knocking the machine didn't stop it. The noise was very loud. I turned off the machine for a few minutes (it felt hot!!). Turned it back on and continued to use it even with the loud noise. I reasoned that maybe the fan bearing had worn out and shaking the machine or tipping it to move the fan blade forward or back would stop the impingement that caused the loud tapping, but jostling and tipping the machine had no effect. I use earbuds when using the Z2 and they block out most external sounds, so I kept using the machine and suddenly the sound disappeared and I continued until the recording ended, around another 45 minutes, no noise! Hmm.

Two things:

1. Does anyone know what this is and can I fix it?

2. What's out there now in terms of getting a replacement PJ (I got my Z2 early on, Nov. 2003)? What's the best bang for the buck in a replacement (I know, that could be complicated)? Currently I don't have a 1080p source, just my DVD player and my 720p output MyHD 120 HDTV card. My biggest complaint with the Z2 is the horrible contrast. I'm pretty sure I could get something with far better contrast, new or used. My distance from lens to screen is around 10 feet. Suggestions appreciated!!!
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post #2 of 11 Old 04-22-2012, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post

I haven't used my Z2 a ton, still working on the first bulb. Recently, I did my ritual of removing dust bunnies, I must have done this at last a dozen times now. I still have the original crappy filter in my Z2. Removed the screws, pulled the cover off. I took a can of compressed gas (Costco bought), for which I have a special tube attached, not the regular straight one. This special one is curved, so I can keep the can erect, and the end is sealed but has a couple of small holes punched on either side next to the end. The effect is to blow gas in opposite directions, does a decent job of getting the dust bunnies out if I'm thorough enough.

Well, I put the machine back to use and there's a noise... sometimes. A tap on the machine and the noise went away. It was as if a fan's blades were touching a surface and a tap caused some play to appear to stop the blades from hitting a surface. This syndrome continued next few times I used the machine. I took the cover off again (I needed to clear another couple dust bunnies too), and I had thought that maybe I had put the cover back wrong or something that would cause the fan to barely touch some surface. I could see nothing.

The problem continued, and I removed the cover again and inspected things. I thought I could see where the fan blade (it's on the left side as you look at the machine from in front, looking at the lens) was touching something. It's the smaller of the two fans, the one more toward the back. I can see it from the outside and it says on the label: DC PICO ACE 25. I'm guessing it's 60mm. I plugged the machine in, turned it on and off a few times. It looks not easy to disassemble things and replace that fan, but that may be what I have to do.

Yesterday I was using the Z2 and the noise started at the beginning, a tap or two and it went away IIRC. However, it came back and louder than usual an hour or two into using it. The room was pretty warm and this may have something to do with it. The room was around 83 F. Knocking the machine didn't stop it. The noise was very loud. I turned off the machine for a few minutes (it felt hot!!). Turned it back on and continued to use it even with the loud noise. I reasoned that maybe the fan bearing had worn out and shaking the machine or tipping it to move the fan blade forward or back would stop the impingement that caused the loud tapping, but jostling and tipping the machine had no effect. I use earbuds when using the Z2 and they block out most external sounds, so I kept using the machine and suddenly the sound disappeared and I continued until the recording ended, around another 45 minutes, no noise! Hmm.

Two things:

1. Does anyone know what this is and can I fix it?

2. What's out there now in terms of getting a replacement PJ (I got my Z2 early on, Nov. 2003)? What's the best bang for the buck in a replacement (I know, that could be complicated)? Currently I don't have a 1080p source, just my DVD player and my 720p output MyHD 120 HDTV card. My biggest complaint with the Z2 is the horrible contrast. I'm pretty sure I could get something with far better contrast, new or used. My distance from lens to screen is around 10 feet. Suggestions appreciated!!!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi...t-1396524.html

I learned a little trick involving 3&1 oil and Graphite powder that works great for restoring fans and they are as good or better than new.
Go to the Homedepot, Lowes or a hardware store and get a small tube of Powdered graphite and a can of 3&1 or equlivant. DO NOT USE WD40 it has to be a light lubricating type oil. You can find the Powdered graphite in the Key Dept. It will cost you about 2 -3 bucks. Make sure it is the powered and not the Graphite lube or paste. Lift up the Fans bearing sticker or plug. Make sure you put in the oil FIRST Use a toothpick and put a SMALL drop of oil on top of the bearing and them put a small "Puff" of the powder and put the sticker/plug back and you should be good to go. The Powder gets drawn back into the little bearing race by the oil and it should give you a lot more life out if it. Also if the fans are noisy it generally means they are moving lots of air and this is a good thing with arc lamps.

Hope this helps

Bohanna
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post #3 of 11 Old 04-22-2012, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi...t-1396524.html

I learned a little trick involving 3&1 oil and Graphite powder that works great for restoring fans and they are as good or better than new.
Go to the Homedepot, Lowes or a hardware store and get a small tube of Powdered graphite and a can of 3&1 or equlivant. DO NOT USE WD40 it has to be a light lubricating type oil. You can find the Powdered graphite in the Key Dept. It will cost you about 2 -3 bucks. Make sure it is the powered and not the Graphite lube or paste. Lift up the Fans bearing sticker or plug. Make sure you put in the oil FIRST Use a toothpick and put a SMALL drop of oil on top of the bearing and them put a small "Puff" of the powder and put the sticker/plug back and you should be good to go. The Powder gets drawn back into the little bearing race by the oil and it should give you a lot more life out if it. Also if the fans are noisy it generally means they are moving lots of air and this is a good thing with arc lamps.

Hope this helps

Bohanna

Hey, thanks Bohanna. Actually I have at least one cylinder of powdered graphite, I use it generally for my locks when the key doesn't turn nice and easy. It's great for that. Also have 3 in 1 and similar oils, also sewing machine oil. I'm DIY from way back. Thanks for the tips, I'll do this very thing, will report back here how it works out. Thanks again!
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post #4 of 11 Old 04-22-2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post

Hey, thanks Bohanna. Actually I have at least one cylinder of powdered graphite, I use it generally for my locks when the key doesn't turn nice and easy. It's great for that. Also have 3 in 1 and similar oils, also sewing machine oil. I'm DIY from way back. Thanks for the tips, I'll do this very thing, will report back here how it works out. Thanks again!

Sewing machine oil is even better. Just make sure to use a small drop. Don't drown the thing,,,, then put the small puff of graphite powder over it and recover it with the label. If you mess up the label trying to take it off to get to the bearing use a small piece of scotch tape in its place. you can also use a tooth brush clean off the fan blades. If the tapping noise keeps going after the lube it could be that the fan motor rivets have looseed up a bit. If this is the case use a SMALL plastic wire tie and wrap it around the fan wires and the fan holding leg that runs parallel to the fan wires. All you need to do is cinch it up a little to keep it from vibrating. Cut the end off the wire tie and it will fit with no problem.

My guess is since you have the original lamp its whats causing part of your contrast troubles, The picture will get a washed out look if the lamp has to many hours on it since you have to tweak the brightness and contrast settings to get a decent image. Your optics may also be a bit dirty . Here is a link you may find helpful . Read post 8. If you decide to clean the optic block MAKE SURE to be carefull with the LCD ribbon connectors

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1369211

good luck

Bohanna
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post #5 of 11 Old 04-22-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips. I've never been happy with the contrast even when it was new. I suppose it might be significantly worse now, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing I can do that will make me happy with the contrast. I was never good at adjusting the machine, for some reason the paradigm of the menu system never clicked in my head and I stopped messing with it. However, nothing I did was satisfactory (even adjusting gamma, which did seem to help), and going back and forth a pain. I have sometimes adjusted contrast in my Momitsu DVD player, still not with impressive results.

Now, I took the Z2 down from its location and opened the case, preparing to do the oil and graphite thing with the fan. I started poking at the label with my finger nail and very soon realized a couple of things:

1. A piece of one of the fan blades had broken off. I pulled it out, it's about the area of my little finger nail, were the finger nail flattened out. The piece of fan blade is curved like a finger nail is, but somewhat less so!

2. The 4 screws that attach the fan to whatever's behind it had each worked its way loose! For all I know, they were never tightened down, I have no way of knowing. I presume that the play in there was what caused the fan blades to impinge on something, causing that racket and the eventual breakage of the tip of one of the blades. The two outermost screws were easily reachable with a small phillips screwdriver and I tightened them up. However, the two screws further into the machine were not accessible. I suppose there's a tool somewhere that will tighten a phillips screw at a right angle (in this case 90 degrees isn't necessary, maybe something more like 60-70 degrees. I've seen gizmos that will tighten hex nuts at right angles, may have one, but a screw! Haven't seen one. I suppose I could make one out of a screwdriver by bending it. Would need to use a propane torch to get the steel red to yellow hot and work it on my anvil or in my bench vise. I didn't feel like doing that. I did manage to twist the screws some with a bike spoke I sharpened and bent (easier than fashioning an angling screwdriver). Tightened the outside screws some more, tested the machine for noise for a few seconds (there was for a second or two, then none), and will now watch today's golf tournament! Hope to hear no noise.

I'm still thinking "why not buy another PJ now?" I've been thinking for a few years (since hearing about the Z3, Z4, Z5), and I realize that the technology has certainly improved a lot since 2003. The Z2 in 2003 was almost a revolutionary piece of technology, what it delivered for under $2000, but I think probably I can get something for less than that now that blows even a new Z2 completely away in terms of image quality. It would be nice if it supported 1080p (which I suppose I'll want sooner or later) but right now I'd love 720p with excellent contrast. Some movies I can't stand to watch on the Z2, at least some scenes because I can't make out detail, the blacks being nowhere near black.

Thanks for the help! And for reading this!!! I will check out that link!
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post #6 of 11 Old 04-22-2012, 04:22 PM
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It sounds like you have the buyers bug and have convinced yourself that the newer technology is far better than the older stuff. I could give you quite an argument about it but the thing I would be concerned with if I were you since you mentioned you have poor eyesight that the unit you get is going to be bright enough. The simple fact is that the brighter you get the image the less intense or deep the blacks are going to be. So If you plan to watch sports during the day I would concern yourself with this instead of a projector that boasts high resolution specks. The simple fact is that getting blacks in an image from a 6500 to 9000K light source is pretty tricky unless you turn the overall brightness level down.

Good Luck

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post #7 of 11 Old 04-22-2012, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I hadn't considered the possibility of "buyer's bug," but yeah, OK, I will! Actually, I didn't realize that there could be a downside to "upgrading." My eyesight isn't poor at all (with glasses on), but I am "total green blind," meaning colors look different to me than people with normal color vision (i.e. all 3 sets of color detection cones in their eyes). The fact is I do watch a fair amount of sports and for that the Z2 is adequate, pretty much completely, AFAIK. It's movies that drive me nuts. Many have night scenes and they usually come off very badly indeed on the Z2. But my throw distance is going to be 9' 8", that is just the way the room is set up, so if I get another PJ, I want it to have great contrast using that throw distance. I can have the room virtually dark, or dark enough, that's not an issue. Maybe I can demo some PJs, I guess I should look into that. The Z2 is speced at 1300:1 contrast. Several of the PJs I could get now spec at 7000:1 or 10,000:1. Is contrast just plain awesome on those? I'm only familiar with mine.

Evidently I shouldn't get too bright a PJ because:

1. I don't need the brightness at <10' throw distance.
2. A very bright PJ won't have very black blacks.

That is unless I can throttle down the machine.

Honestly I'm in no hurry to get another machine. This morning I was thinking that I maybe had to if I wanted to have a PJ. However, that "fix" I described in the last post seems to have worked. I just used the Z2 for over 4 hours and the problem did not occur. AND I got an idea: To keep those screws from losening again and keep the fan from moving and the blades striking some surface I will remove the cover again and apply big dabs of contact cement on top of and around the heads of those screws. I LOVE contact cement, it's one of the most versatile DIY materials ever invented. That stuff sets hard, tough and slightly flexible. It NEVER gets brittle. It should hold those screws right where they are and some around the circumference of that fan will also hold it in place. So, I figure I have a working PJ, no hurry to get another. If I can get another without costing a whole lot (I did pay approximately $1950 for my Z2 back in November 2003) that majorly outperforms my Z2, especially if the contrast is worlds better, I figure it's a good idea. I will do my homework, however, and try hard to get one that makes sense for me in my situation. I'm usually a pretty good shopper. Well, I think so, but of course, I'm biased!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post


My guess is since you have the original lamp its whats causing part of your contrast troubles, The picture will get a washed out look if the lamp has to many hours on it since you have to tweak the brightness and contrast settings to get a decent image.

I'm pretty sure I'm using the same brightness and contrast settings I did when the PJ was new, probably the default settings. I haven't touched those settings since 2004 or 2005. I've been running everything the same. The only adjustments I've made are to the screen position (the "shift" adjustments) and the feet height. Plus I've cleaned the filter and blown out dust bunnies, on average maybe every 9 months or so. And today, tightening up those screws that hold the smaller fan in place. I guess whoever installed that fan failed to tighten them adequately.
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post #8 of 11 Old 04-26-2012, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Today I tighted the screws some more and applied contact cement. Hopefully no more fan noise problem.
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post #9 of 11 Old 04-26-2012, 10:14 PM
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A Z2 but man that's a legacy projector. Me I've gone through a dozen projectors way past the Z2 and enjoyed every minute of it. Nothing better than viewing a much better machine. I think you owe it to yourself to try the epson or Benq but with the Bq throw you'll need a smaller screen. Even a Z5 is way beyond the Z2. You missed the Z2000 it went for $650 and a much better machine than the Z2.
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post #10 of 11 Old 04-27-2012, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

A Z2 but man that's a legacy projector. Me I've gone through a dozen projectors way past the Z2 and enjoyed every minute of it. Nothing better than viewing a much better machine. I think you owe it to yourself to try the epson or Benq but with the Bq throw you'll need a smaller screen. Even a Z5 is way beyond the Z2. You missed the Z2000 it went for $650 and a much better machine than the Z2.
Live a little buddy.

Went ahead and ordered an Epson 8700ub refurb this morning. That Z2000, the bulb was only ~500 hours but who knows how used the machine was, they weren't saying. I'm glad I am getting the Epson, it'll have their 2 year warranty. I don't think I'll need to make any major changes to my HT setup except that the Epson will take up a lot more room on my bookcase and I think I'll have to extend something, either a piece of supported wood in front or a plate screwed to the wood, also may cut out the back of the case to let the PJ extend back a couple of inches. It's a big sucker.

I need a bluray player now and a test disk, ideas appreciated.

Edit: I posted at Anandtech Forums in their audio/video forum asking for Blu-ray player suggestions and am looking at the
Panasonic DMP-BDT220 Integrated Wi-Fi 3D Blu-ray DVD Player. Seems like it might be a good choice. I posted a thread here in the BR players thread but got told that I should have posted in the dedicated thread, never saw it.
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post #11 of 11 Old 04-27-2012, 05:03 PM
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That's good cause the Epson is way better than the old Z2000. You saw Art's review he's had tons of LCD's with Di's to know. The thing that got me in his review is when the screen fades to black the whole room is black you can't see any light on the screen, that's worth something.

Now all that's left is the anticipation the wait till it arrives. Xmas comes early

Post your thought's on your thread here.

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