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post #1 of 30 Old 04-29-2012, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Good evening all, I've lurked around here before and I finally have a question, I really appreciate any and all replys. I'm setting up a projector for outdoor use, I'm a little confused about how bright my projector should be, I will only use it after dusk. I also don't know if my desired projector loction affects what I need. Here is what I want to do...
My desired screen size is 110", the projector location is 45' from the screen and 25' offset to the left. Projector height and the center of the screen are both 8ft. Again thanks in advance for any feedback.
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post #2 of 30 Old 05-01-2012, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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anyone???
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post #3 of 30 Old 05-01-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyd View Post

anyone???

My guess is you will have to have a VERY long throw lens on a projector to get that small of an image at 45 feet. Are you talking about a new or a used projector?


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post #4 of 30 Old 05-01-2012, 12:32 PM
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You need to get the PJ much closer to the screen .. at 45 feet, even if you had the lens to do it, you would lose so much brightness you'd need a very very high lumen unit, even if you had a very dark area at night ..

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post #5 of 30 Old 05-01-2012, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replys, unfortunately, the only flexibility I would have would be the screen size, I could easily go larger, as far as a new or used projector, I'm open to both options, as long as it works. This will be for movie night at the pool, I would like a good quality picture, not perfection.
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post #6 of 30 Old 05-02-2012, 04:43 AM
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Read Post 8,, If you can find a used one of these older sanyos. I would jump on it. They are still around and they can be had for a song. There is nothing that will touch them in this used price range. They originally retailed for around 20K plus 3K for the lens. Most Home theater projectors use between a 132 and a 250 watt lamp. This one uses between a 400 and a 440 watt lamp.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1408140

Good Luck

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post #7 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 11:26 AM
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I think you will have a difficult time finding a cheap backyard projector to use that will have a reasonable light output at 45 feet.

Check this website for a distance calculator:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ulator-pro.cfm

BUT, there might be another option: have you considered rear-projection instead of front projection?

You would need as little as 5'7" on the backside of your screen to use the 720p Optoma GT750. Although only 720p instead of 1080p, and no zoom or offset, it has a LOT of light, and an extremely short throw distance, thus only requiring 5 1/2 feet behind your screen to work in rear-projection mode for a 110" image.

Other projectors would probably need 12' behind your screen for a 110" image.

I don't know much about rear projection vs. front projection (especially for outdoors), but thought I'd suggest the idea.
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post #8 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks J,
I actually used a tape measure today, I've got a 30' distance with a 10' offset, rear projection is not an option, I'm mounting the screen inside a screen enclosure by the pool. Hopefully that opens things up. Thanks for the responses.
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post #9 of 30 Old 05-08-2012, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyd View Post

Thanks J,
I actually used a tape measure today, I've got a 30' distance with a 10' offset, rear projection is not an option, I'm mounting the screen inside a screen enclosure by the pool. Hopefully that opens things up. Thanks for the responses.

I don't know if this is relevant but you may want to call the people at Buhl Optical. I'm not sure if they are still around. The company used to be located in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. The kind of projector you are looking for is the kind they use in auditoriums and large venue rooms.

If not there may be some aftermarket companies that make lenses for doing what you want to do.

Good Luck

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post #10 of 30 Old 05-08-2012, 02:53 PM
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Chances are you're going to need both horizontal AND veritical lens shift. If you use this calculator (you'll need to research how much shift each projector has) but this calculator should give you your best options.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15

It looks like there is a small selection below or near $3000 (and I don't even know if these projectors will have sufficient lens shift). If you want a native 1080p projector to meet these specs it looks like you're going to need to spend close to $10000.

You may want to rethink this project out a bit and try and figure a way to bring the projector closer to your screen.
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post #11 of 30 Old 05-08-2012, 03:01 PM
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How are you going to have enough horizontal lens shift to correct a 25 foot offset to the left, won't work...
Even at 30 feet back with a 10 foot offset to the left, that's going to be more than most projectors h-shift can do.

If you get past the above issue, then...
The Epson g5450 is a safe bet if you can move the projector back to about 40' or go with a bigger screen, as it has a super long throw range. It has more brightness than you need.
You do not need it that bright for a 110" if watching after dusk, even if the PJ will be 30 to 40 feet back. You just need to pair it with a High Gain or a Positive Gain Gray screen, or even a negative gain gray might work if you use a super bright projector.

The problem is 30 feet is a bad place to mount it because so many projectors will do a 110" screen ONLY CLOSER than 30 feet, or ONLY farther back (larger venue). So you're kind of putting it at an awkward point. I am not sure which PJ's can do that exact throw range.


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post #12 of 30 Old 05-08-2012, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the input, I've taken a look at getting the projector closer and shifting my screen to the left. I can get 21ft from the screen, my left screen edge (from the viewing position) lines up with the projector, I would still like 90" to 110" diagonal screen size. I hope this can get me into a workable solution.
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post #13 of 30 Old 05-08-2012, 09:01 PM
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Do you want 3D, will anyone be doing any gaming outdoors?

Panasonic ar100u is probably your best bet (no 3D), as it has ga-doodles of lens shift available (I believe just about more lens shift than any other projector under $5000). It is super super bright. However, it does not have the best black levels or the best overall PQ if you even care (it is still 1080p and a super light cannon though), and the image quality is still very respectable.

Your other choice is a refurbished Epson 8700ub or a much more expensive Epson 5010, this has a better image than the Panny ar100u, but the 8700ub is about 2x the price and about half as bright in best mode.

The Epson is plenty bright depending on how much light will be hitting the screen after dusk (like pool lights hitting it or whatever). The Panny ar100u is a true light cannon though, it can do a near-best mode at 2000 lumens or so. Since you will be doing this outside, I recommend you just paint a screen instead of buying an outdoor screen (although you could buy an outdoor one). It'll be a lot cheaper to paint it with a higher quality paint that rejects some of the ambient light. Check the DIY screen forums and get help there.


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post #14 of 30 Old 05-09-2012, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyd View Post

Thanks J,
I actually used a tape measure today, I've got a 30' distance with a 10' offset, rear projection is not an option, I'm mounting the screen inside a screen enclosure by the pool. Hopefully that opens things up. Thanks for the responses.

I have been thinking about your screen room quagmire. Could you hang a drop down screen somewhere in the middle of screen room so its closer to the projector? You pull it down when you are showing something and put it back when not in use.

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post #15 of 30 Old 05-09-2012, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I will post some pics this evening, so you can see what I'm trying to accomplish. I've compromised my goals/revised my measurements, see my previous post.
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post #16 of 30 Old 05-10-2012, 02:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a pic, hope it helps.
Attachment 246089
LL
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post #17 of 30 Old 05-10-2012, 05:16 AM
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I would hang the projector off the rafter located to the right of the shaded window. (The one near the floodlights). You can hang it pretty high up if you run it upside down. You can get the necessary tubing at a lowes or a Home depot. You can run the cabling up the rafter and down the pipe. If it were me I would use a Chief brand mount since they have a quick release that allows you to remove the projector for maintenance and you can pre position it so you are not holding the projector while trying to screw it to the mount. I would also use a business class projector because of its higher lumen rating would be needed to overcome the ambient light from the neighborhood. What are you planning on connecting it too ? a DVD player, a HDTV box, a computer with a DVD drive?

Bohanna

FYI The old sanyo I recommended is not the one I would suggest for this application. Its far to big. .

Also FYI...... I happened to stumble across this youtubeeee video. This EIKI is the Sanyo built 9000NA series projector that uses the 400 watt lamp. Notice this was filmed is during the day. It has a lens shift. If you can ever buy one of these cheap (under 500.00) I would grab it and hold on to it since they don't make em like this anymore and for occasional backyard theater viewing nothing touches them, You can hook them up to and Epvisions OTA HDTV tuner and have High def major TV network viewing with a stunning picture ANYWHERE. I did two of these outdoors on a Ball field back fence during last years Stanley cup finals in the middle of field and the crowd loved it !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yBM9pkyrP8
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post #18 of 30 Old 05-10-2012, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I was going to faricate a steel shelf and hang on the wall, that way the unit and shelf are easily removed after use, so a big projector is fine. I'm kind of a neatnik about wiring, so I need to keep my location where it's at, the cabinet to the left of the window, holds my 26 soon to be 42 tv. So all my power/signal wiring comes out the rt side. I have a question about my tuning sources, most of these old units are lacking rbg connections. So is the best option a computer/rbg adapter?
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post #19 of 30 Old 05-10-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyd View Post

I was going to faricate a steel shelf and hang on the wall, that way the unit and shelf are easily removed after use, so a big projector is fine. I'm kind of a neatnik about wiring, so I need to keep my location where it's at, the cabinet to the left of the window, holds my 26 soon to be 42 tv. So all my power/signal wiring comes out the rt side. I have a question about my tuning sources, most of these old units are lacking rbg connections. So is the best option a computer/rbg adapter?

I was under the Impression you were talking about a fixed install. If this is not the case and you plan on taking it down after each use I would use a high/tall rolling cart and paint it to match the decor so you can roll it in and out when not in use. If you plan on building it yourself make sure you use heavy duty casters. If you are going to go with a used projector I would go with a sanyo xP10NA a proxima 9250+ or an Eiki LC-999 they are all the same unit and can be had for short money. I would buy a linkstyle model LK-219413
HD Rgb converter and run it through the VGA port. You could also go with a xp18,20 or 21N or a proxima 9260. they are a bit brighter and have a built in RGB component inputs. just make sure you see the used projector and the image that it shows or know it has been tested before you buy it, The good news is with a rolling cart you have a lot of wiggle room when positioning the projector.

Hope this helps

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post #20 of 30 Old 05-10-2012, 04:07 PM
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No offense, but those projectors aren't even 720p (they are 1024 x 768) and LCD panels degrade over time, those are VERY old projectors. They are also 4:3 and not 16:9, nothing he plays on it is even going to be in the correct Aspect Ratio.

The newer LCD's look so much better. You will have no contrast with those projectors. Older projectors are also very inefficient, even though it may have a 400 watt lamp, the technology has changed and they are able to get more lumens out of much less wattage lamps now. Those PJ's were only rated at a MAX around 2000 lumens, the PT AR-100u can do 2000 lumens with fairly accurate color, and even 2500+ in absolute torch mode.

The Panny ar100u can be had under $1500, it is brighter, it is higher resolution, it has more lens shift, better panels, etc. If you want to spend less and still need LENS SHIFT, look at the Epson 720p LCD models (some have lens shift), they have very bright torch modes.

I would buy a standard 720p LCD like an Epson for around $500 new before touching an old LCD, or get something refurbished.

There are plenty of projectors now that can do torch modes over 1500 lumens, he doesn't need a business projector. Even if he wants more brightness than that, there are cheap options out even new if he were willing to settle for such low resolution.


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post #21 of 30 Old 05-10-2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

No offense, but those projectors aren't even 720p (they are 1024 x 768) and LCD panels degrade over time, those are VERY old projectors. They are also 4:3 and not 16:9, nothing he plays on it is even going to be in the correct Aspect Ratio.

The newer LCD's look so much better. You will have no contrast with those projectors. Older projectors are also very inefficient, even though it may have a 400 watt lamp, the technology has changed and they are able to get more lumens out of much less wattage lamps now. Those PJ's were only rated at a MAX around 2000 lumens, the PT AR-100u can do 2000 lumens with fairly accurate color, and even 2500+ in absolute torch mode.

The Panny ar100u can be had under $1500, it is brighter, it is higher resolution, it has more lens shift, better panels, etc. If you want to spend less and still need LENS SHIFT, look at the Epson 720p LCD models (some have lens shift), they have very bright torch modes.

I would buy a standard 720p LCD like an Epson for around $500 new before touching an old LCD, or get something refurbished.

There are plenty of projectors now that can do torch modes over 1500 lumens, he doesn't need a business projector. Even if he wants more brightness than that, there are cheap options out even new if he were willing to settle for such low resolution.

Where do you come up with this stuff??? You will get the 16:9 ratio image with a projector that is native 4:3 you will have a line above and below. This is very common in many projectors even the ones that have 16:9 and 4:3 screen options. If you have a projector that is ONLY native 16:9 you will get a smaller picture when showing 4:3 images which BTW happen to be a lot of what the thousands of older movies and programs were shot in. As far as the panels go there are thousands of these business class projectors on the market with very low hours on the panels and the ballasts that drive the lamps are so far superior to the ones being made in the last 5 or so years its not even funny. The optics in the older Japan made projectors are in a class of their own and are so much better than the newer cheaped down projectors on the market. Look at all the threads complaining about premature lamp failures. As to your its not even a 720P projector comment. It's native 1024x768 is fine and it does 1280x1024 like a breeze. The HD converter that I mentioned goes right into the VGA port and looks as natural as can be.
Your comment with regards to the 400 watt lamp being inefficient may have some merit but this thing out shines any of the smaller business class or home theater projectors by a mile. As to your no contrast comment / you really don't know what you are talking about. If you are just trying to crunch the numbers you are being duped by the marketing folks. You will get better contrast with a home theater projector but it will not be very bright and you can get the SAME effect by turning the brightness down on a business projector. This is a screen house and there will be lots of ambient light in the back ground. The TITLE of this thread was OUTDOOR Projector set up. The reason I mentioned these smaller xp series projectors is they still cast a bright image and can be bought for a very reasonable price on the used market and the lamp life is pretty long. This thing could be done for under 400.00 if the buyer shops right. If he can get his hands on the Sanyo 9000 series like the one the youtube link and can deal with the it huge size he will have an image that is as bright as the sun. These things were used to fill auditoriums
I have used them outside for major events on a 20 foot screen.

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post #22 of 30 Old 05-10-2012, 08:39 PM
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I see you obviously took my counter to your recommendations personally and you countered with some ridicule and silly arguments.

I am not going by MFR lumens, considering I wrote a projector calculator and had to collect real-world lumens of many projectors, I would say I am as familiar of the REAL lumen output of projectors as anyone (and more than most).

I am also fully aware of how a projector overshoots non-native aspects, and that is exactly why I would not do it when starting from sub-720p resolution with a 4:3 aspect onto a 16:9 screen (you will further reduce your resolution). There is no reason to buy a 4:3 format projector for home theater viewing in a backyard unless he just wants to exclusively watch 4:3 movies. 2.35 movies will be terrible from a 4:3 aspect projector that starts at 1024x768 and then projecting it with the huge loss of resolution caused by the overshoot of 4:3 to the inner 2.35 conversion on the 16:9 screen (rather than 16:9 at 1080p or 720p, to 2.35). You also lose some SERIOUS lumens when using the over-shoot method for such far off aspect ratios, so none of your lumens arguments even hold up. I am fully aware of marketing contrast lies with on/off contrast, which is why I currently own a JVC RS-45 LCOS projector which can truly approach 50k:1.

Depending on what he wants to spend and his exact lighting conditions, the Panny ar100u is the best choice to maintain an HT look to the image with some reviewers measuring just under 2500 lumens in its brightest mode (and 2000+ lumens in "accurate enough" modes), or there are several Epson LCD's in 720p, or he could buy a 16:9 or 16:10 business projector. He could also paint a positive gain gray screen that rejects ambient light, that will do more than just getting a brighter projector.

Arguing about optics when citing the resolution of 1024x768 in LCD with all the crazy conversions you are recommending doesn't hold up to say the least, not to mention the much worse pixel fill ratios from the older panels at 1024x768 res, and then projecting non-native aspect ratios and losing pixels from aspect overshooting and adding ringing from scaling, then adding the conversion of 4:3 to 2.35 (I am speechless). The average VISIBLE convergence of optics is partly based on the pixel size and resolution (as far as how the human eye can see convergence error).

Then you attempt to make a case for reliability issues when comparing a used projector to a brand new or refurb that comes with a warranty when all problems are fully covered. Then you attempt to say that 4:3 is better because of old movies (many old movies have been converted to wider aspects, and the OP will most likely be watching wide aspect the majority of the time). I'm sure the neighbor is going to enjoy his IMAGE overshot into their yard given this poster was planning on using a 16:9 screen... This person is not trying to install a projector for a media event at a football game or Charlie Chaplin movies from a seating distance of 200 feet back, he is installing it to presumably watch primarily 16:9 and 2.35/2.40 movies in his backyard near his pool on a relatively small screen.

If he just wants the absolute cheapest setup, then it would be hard to tell him what to buy since it would vary based on what was in the refurb or used market on any given day. To be sure of any recommendation I would have to see how much light is hitting the screen, but the ar100u with a positive gain gray is a good bet, and it may even work just fine on his current screen with no changes depending on his lighting. I did not see the OP mention any desire to watch mostly old movies.


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post #23 of 30 Old 05-11-2012, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Play nice guys, just to be clear, my max buget is 750.00, and I'm looking for plug and play, the two video sources are my blu-ray player and directv. Hope that helps, I really have no clue when it come to projectors, so I do appreciate the feedback.
One more thing, this will probably be a semi permenat install with a manual retractable screen, I will cover the projecter with a cover when not in use.
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post #24 of 30 Old 05-11-2012, 11:01 AM
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It wasn't a personal attack against him, but using a 4:3 projector for a 16:9 screen would be an absolute last resort if no other options exist.

You may in fact be stuck going with a business projector at that budget (please 16:9 or 16:10), but you might be able to find an Epson LCD HT at 720p. The problem is trying to find one with enough lens shift.

You have to see how much light reflections are really hitting your screen, like is the screen well lit up by itself with reflections from the pool area in the dusk period you will be watching.


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post #25 of 30 Old 05-11-2012, 01:54 PM
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Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 810 - Refurbished for $599 on Epson site is what I'd give it a go with.......

I used one of these to fill my 150" screen from 18 feet.......using maximum horizontal lens shift.....I used the brightest mode, but in low lamp and it was plenty bright.......was able to calibrate to good enough for a non videophile....
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post #26 of 30 Old 05-11-2012, 02:48 PM
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Looks like a decent recommendation if he can just figure out how much light reflection off the screen he is really dealing with. There are probably some slightly brighter ones, but most of the CHEAP light cannons at 720p I checked do not have lens shift, and the 810 is really bright for what it gives you. I just wonder if there might be a newer version of that PJ that can also be bought refurb for near the same price.

The main thing is that he builds the screen himself I think and just paints it with some high-gain positive gray light-rejecting paint that is semi-durable to outdoor weather and can be easily cleaned. There are several posters in the DIY screen forums that can help him with this problem. Combining that and a decently bright PJ, he should do ok.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #27 of 30 Old 05-19-2012, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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...and now on to screen recommendations. I will be permenantly mounting a manual dropdown, I will handle the weather proofing myself, so it doesn't need to be an "outdoor" screen, what brands should I consider or stay away from? Thanks again.
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post #28 of 30 Old 05-19-2012, 03:56 PM
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Is it possible to weather proof a regular screen?
Hmm, I would still go with a DIY solution, they are just as good really as long as you do it right by following the advice from people in the DIY threads. I think you need an outdoor material, not a regular screen, the humidity and temperature changes and bugs and everything else will mess it up.

That said, I like Da-Lite screens for bang for buck, as I have had some negative experiences with Elite screens (but only on their VERY cheap screens), not sure about higher-end elites.

Here is a site with good prices on some various screens, www.projectorzone.com.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #29 of 30 Old 05-20-2012, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not weather proofing the screen, just making an enclosure for when the screen is retracted.
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post #30 of 30 Old 02-27-2014, 02:49 AM
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I saw this on YT, I don't know if it's of interest?
Detailed specification can be read here - we have used them once and the solution was perfect, just don;t lose the keys! It allowed us to use the projector outdoors.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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