Gaming Projector for 3D Hardcore PC FPS - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6 Old 05-17-2012, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I need a low latency projector primarily for FPS gaming, in 3D, from a PC.

I have it between the GT750 and the Acer H5360, mainly because of the lag reports I've read around the net of all the other projectors (and almost no lag on these).

I have two ATI Radeon HD 5850's, so that's another concern. I've read a lot of conflicting reports as to whether these will even be able to drive a 3D projector or not.

I'm Considering:
GT750: because it is technically a better projector. Thing is, it's not on any compatibility lists that I can find, and it hasn't been around for _that_ long. I don't wanna get this and then not have any resources for when it doesn't work with my 5850's

H5360: because it's been around for a while now, and is on some compatibility lists (though I still can't find anyone that has had success with the Radeon 5850. I've read that 5000 and 6000 series will work though). Also the non-short throw is a bit of a plus to me. And it's cheaper.


Side Note:
I've searched and searched and searched. If this is a duplicate PLEASE give me a link, and I apologize in advance.
Come on ATI / nVidia, you're breakin' my balls here! Testing your sheeit with 3D projectors == $$$! It doesn't have to be a fringe thing! 3D Projectors are cheaper than 3D TVs for foooks sake.
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post #2 of 6 Old 05-29-2012, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought the GT750. I found that the GT750 (with glasses) was just as much at Best Buy (on sale, I think it's over), and I can return it if it turns out to be crap.

I'm using is exclusively for PC gaming, most of which will be FPS, on (I wish other people would post their builds too... good to know what's powering these projectors):
Graphics: 2x Radeon 5850's
Mobo: MSI Z68a GD65
Processor: i3 2120
Mem: G.Skill 8GB DDR3 1600
iZ3D Driver (whatever the latest is as of last night), running "3D 120hz Devices" mode
Via VGA cable (soon to try HDMI)


I'll make a post on the official thread possibly, but my very-first
impressions:

1) Short throw is awesome for gaming. I initially thought this would be a pain having something sit 5 ft away from the screen (the middle of my space), or that there would be extensive warping. I guess it still is a little annoying to have something sit in the middle of the room, but it would be more annoying to have to duck out of the way for a normal throw projector (there is more volume of space taken up by a normal throw projector that is normally used for sitting/standing/handwaving). If it were a permanent fixture, i would mount it on the ceiling and totally forget it was there, and still be able to get right up next to the picture. See the thing is, if you're getting a projector, really you SHOULD get up close (read: 6-10ft) from it, otherwise, you're losing the size of the image (which is the whole point in a projector in the first place, right?). Ideally, I would have the projector 5-6ft away, and sit right behind it (WIP atm). As for warping, I didn't notice any yet.

2) 2D Colors are "pretty good" out of the box. I'm a photographer so I pay attention to color, but I've done no calibration or official tests, and this is totally anecdotal at this point. I wasn't expecting too much from this, and obviously my photo work wont be on the projector (I have a Dell U2412m for that). I first watched Lord Of The Rings, and it was pretty amazing at 150 inches on a white painted wall (yeah, I'm serious about the "pretty good" being anecdotal . Come to think of it though, working on photos at 150" would be amazing, especially if my stylus was the wall and I could work on it large canvas style... i digress.

3) 3D colors are... I guess average? and by that, i mean washed out and crappy, though I hear that most 3D projectors in this price range (and latency) are the same way. It's not bad once you get used to it, but when you first turn on 120hz you'll likely say "huh..." or something to that effect. Unfortunately, this makes games like Battlefield 3 almost unplayable (since they have all that crap-on-your-screen HDR crap going on that already washes out pretty much all frames... I'm not a fan). Battlefield 3 isn't playable (in 3D, and arguably in 2D) for other reasons as well (mostly resolution). I mean, it's playable and you can get immersed, but you'll get fragged a whole hell of a lot more too.

4) Optoma 3DRF glasses that came with it are okay. Its the standard Fugly dork glasses, but lets be honest, if you're gaming on a projector, you ain't cool anyway. They also seem to cut the brightness down a ton as well, "a ton" being anecdotal, again. When in 120hz (i.e. 3D) and with the glasses... yeah, not so good. I never had any trouble with syncing or anything, though I noticed that my logitech wireless keyboard and mouse lose sync a bunch when I'm sitting the wrong way... I haven't determined if the RF glasses are the culprit though... could be me being a dumbass in some way (they DO have full battery and only do it when I have the glasses on, but that's not total proof).

If anyone wants, i can write more or whatever...



NO MORE INFO ON GT750 BELOW... sorry I afterwards realized I ranted, but if you aren't convinced that 3D stereoscopic gaming is worth suffering through the low light and crappy colors, read on!
Side Rant: Why you should game in stereoscopic 3D: 3D gaming is the future, and somewhat the present, though I feel like it's still in the first adoption stages, like when you could first burn CDs but you turned out about 10 coasters for each good burn. It was AWESOME, and people appreciated it, but not all were ready to go to the trouble to get to Awesome land.

So why is 3D the Future of gaming (and beyond IMHO)? I've worked in the games industry for a while now, made a handfull of AAA titles, and in a lot of those titles the artists' works goes unappreciated (at least fully). They spend all this time modeling in 3D, only for it to be eventually projected onto a 2D plane (i.e. your screen). I played Fallout 3 with my new GT750 in stereoscopic 3D, and when I finally got the convergence and separation settings set well, I walked into the town of "http://www.interwebtimes.com/wp-content/gallery/fallout3/megaton.jpg" Megaton. I was amazed! In this picture, you can see that Megaton has all these wires and support-lines crisscrossing around the town. In 2D it looks cool... in a waterworld sortof cool way (luke-warm sortof cool I mean). You can't tell where those wires go unless you hand-trace them around, and who's gonna do that? All that work on the artists' parts are boiled down to a 5 second "oh cool..." moment. It's basically a 2D picture you can move around in. But now with stereoscopic 3D on, BOOM! All of a sudden your brain takes that extra 3D information, and pieces it together for you! You know where all those lines go, all at once, without having to think about it! All of a sudden I'm sitting INSIDE the art instead of viewing it from infinity. It's like I went from viewing a photo of Angkor Wat to being there in person.

Beyond art appreciation, there are also gaming gains. Without stereoscopic 3D, when you move around, you see 3D because of "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax" parallax. But if you stand still, things can look flat. A good example of this is looking through a corn field in FPS games (without moving around). Without stereoscopic 3D, it'll look flat. You can see that it's supposed to be 3D (farther away corn stalks are smaller) but it still "feels" like a jumble of textures. But with stereoscopic 3D, you can focus on a particular row of corn. The other rows will double in a way that tells your brain relative positions to the row you're focused on. That doubling is extra data our brain will use "for free," and pretty much instantly. This information still exists in the non-stereoscopic 2D screen view, but it's information that is essentially compressed from 3D into 2D, which you have to manually decompress to get that information back.
Now extend this example and say someone runs through your field of vision, through a particular row of corn. In "normal" 3D you just see some pixels flash across the screen. You might be able to discern which row it was, but it would be the same "manual" tracing of lines that had to be done in the Fallout 3 Megaton scene... in other words, its a very slow thought process. In stereoscopic 3D, you can almost instantly tell how close the person was, based on that image doubling that your brain is hard-wired to process. Instead of your brain decompressing the 2D image back to 3D, and then determining where the runner was, you can immediately read where the runner was without thinking through the decompression. Clear as mud? heh.

Aaaaaannyway. How did I get here? oh yeah, the GT750. I'm a fan, and I'll give up colors and brightness (for a while) in favor of extra 3D in its "uncompressed" form, much in the same way audiophiles want uncompressed audio files over MP3. I hope this is a trend towards better 3D devices. Thanks for reading if you made it this far, sorry for the novel.
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post #3 of 6 Old 05-30-2012, 01:27 AM
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Metro 2033 looks great in 3D! So does STALKER, HL2 series, Fallout New Vegas, Serious Sam BFE, L4D2, FarCry2, JustCause2. BF3 and Deus EX; Human Revolution are both Native 3D so they work without the IZ3D driver.
Started out with an AMD 5870 and quickly moved to a 6970, then 7970 shooting thru the Acer 5360 w/Viewsonic PGD-150 glasses.
Have fun!
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post #4 of 6 Old 05-30-2012, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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@Bob7145 Thanks dude! That's good to hear that things are working out.
Interesting, the Acer 5360... How does BF3 Look in 3D? Any chance for pics of anything Conquest Large?

I've been trying GTA4 out with my GT750. Totally rad, though they have a lot of dynamic FOV cameras, that make tweaking settings a little difficult. I have a driving setting, an outdoor walking setting, and an indoor walking setting. Someday we won't have to do that, or I could just expect less out of the 3D...
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post #5 of 6 Old 06-02-2012, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BumpingBocaj View Post

3D Projectors are cheaper than 3D TVs for foooks sake.[/i]

After seeing 3d on a projector watching on a led tv, I might as well be watching on my cell phone the screen feels so small. Can't wait to see what the future brings.
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post #6 of 6 Old 06-04-2012, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber Ale View Post

Can't wait to see what the future brings.

Hopefully the future brings universally accepted standards... there are problems associated with that, but that's really the only way 3D will make it big time.

Right now the hassle of finding the hardware, figuring if it's a good fit for what you want, trying to find out if things are compatible, trying to get content that works correctly, and troubleshooting (endless forum combing) is enough to drive most people away. I suppose the cost of entry is pretty steep too, but that will always come down the more popular something is (supply/demand 'n all that).
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