Ok I've settled on this one, seems like incredible specs around $500 or less shipped - AVS Forum
1 2  3 
Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP > Ok I've settled on this one, seems like incredible specs around $500 or less shipped
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 06:03 PM 07-15-2012
*edit* There was formerly a link here to what most people here believe is a garbage projector and I am now inclined to agree, however it did get the ball rolling and now this thread has become a pretty good crash course in currently available inexpensive projector technology for neophytes,

Pete

robbyc30's Avatar robbyc30 06:33 PM 07-15-2012
Please do not waste your money on one of these garbage projectors. They are the same tech as this, for $175:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/V06B-LED-LCD-Projector-1080P-Home-Theater-HDMI-WII-PS3-/150668087814?_trksid=p4340.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D7%26meid%3D635533226132681761%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D1015%26rk%3D3%26

And that one is overpriced as well. These "projectors" use a single, large LCD panel and are more akin to projectors you make yourself, than anything even remotely suited for HT. Do a search on YouTube for DIY LED projectors and you'll see basically what you will be getting for your $500.

Rob
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 07:39 PM 07-15-2012
I think I may have caused misunderstanding. I don't blame you at all!

it's easy to be confused by these new chinese projectors It seem there is a new paradigm. These seem to be something new and different because they are using HIGH RESOLUTION LCD and HIGH POWERED LEDS. The projector that you linked to only has a low resolution of 640 x 480, and use crappy up-scaling, The projectors I linked to are NOT those. These are entirely different than the ones I linked to. In fact they have just sprouted up. They do share the single LCD design, but differ thereafter. I have seen the high powered LEDs on the upscaled low-res projectors. These are not those

I've seen those low res units like the ones you refer and allude to (and many more like them) around a long time. This one (and the others I linked to) are in fact the first single LCD, LED NATIVE HIGH RES projectors I have seen that have a native resolution of 1024 x 768 and a very,very powerful LED.

Please do not think I am not listening to your great advice here. I am thinking the the 3 LCD projector that I currently have (NEC VT580) with it's 3 lcd's is would potentially be a disadvantage to a single LCD design if done properly. (in fact the blue panel on these 3 LCD designs tends to change value over time. I am guessing that the decreased heat of the new LED lamps is possibly making a single LCD design possible and viable?

Perhaps you did not understand thatt these units I am referring to are NOT using the old up scaled low resolution units, but begin with NATIVE resolution LCD panel of 1024 X 768,. (native 720 obviously) and now use very high powered LED lamps. I would be honored if some of you would look into this a bit closer. It may be benificial to all of us.

As all of you all know, new tech sometimes has a way of sneaking in through the back door of inexpensive Chinese products, and I believe THESE ARE ENTIRELY NEW TO THE MARKET that this just might be one of those times a detailed analysis would be prudent.

I have built one of the DIY units you refer to in the past using a very high res LCD panel, and other than the bulk and positioning issues and huge high wattage lamp the performance was superior to all but the very highest end projectors of a few years ago, and in fact is still in service in a large sports bar in my area. If the Chinese have managed to make single LCD / High output LED units *small* it would be great. If anyone could tell me the technical reasons why a single lcd panel as opposed to 3 lcd design would be inadequate if properly lighted and designed, I would be very appreciative. I am curious os inherent design benefits of 3 LCD panels over a single lcd panel. I was of the impression that the 3 panel was some sort of technical workaround and in fact was not a great idea. Thanks for your time! These seem to be the days when it is no longer true that "You get what you pay for" but it is certainly true that "You get what you research"

Thanks Pete
For clarity I'll link to to it again:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=dbb233065ab1a040519e1597cbc0fff9&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avsforum.com%2Ft%2F1420386%2Fplease-help-me-find-the-scat-smelling-lining-in-this-silver-cloud&v=1&libid=1342402778061&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avsforum.com%2Fforums%2Fposts%2Fadd%2FthreadId%2F1420399&title=Ok%20I've%20settled%20on%20this%20one%2C%20seems%20like%20incredible%20specs%20around%20%24500%20or%20less%20shipped&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.viglink.com%2Fapi%2Fclick%3Fformat%3Dgo%26amp%3Bkey%3Ddbb233065ab1a040519e1597cbc0fff9%26amp%3Bloc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.avsforum.com%252Ft...&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13424028864563&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FBuilt-in-speaker-2-HDMI-3500lumens-1080P-720P-HD-led-home-video-Projector-Beamer-%2F271002551016%3Fpt%3DUS_Video_Projectors%26hash%3Ditem3f1902c2e8%23ht_8278wt_983
ccotenj's Avatar ccotenj 07:43 PM 07-15-2012
^^^

it's safe to say that if there was this new magical projector out there that was dirt cheap, it would be well known and discussed here...

i learned something a LONG time ago... it starts with "if it sounds too good to be true..."... wink.gif

your money... your decision...
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 08:03 PM 07-15-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
it's safe to say that if there was this new magical projector out there that was dirt cheap, it would be well known and discussed here...
i learned something a LONG time ago... it starts with "if it sounds too good to be true..."... wink.gif
your money... your decision...

Good Lord, It is being discussed here! You and I have started the discussion. It's new and I am pointing it out..

And I haven't spent the money quite yet. (-

FWIW, I am sort of one of of the pioneers of PC digital audio recording, got the t-shirt the cover of the mag yada yada Trust me when I say that I am very well aware that anything new is first scorned then vetted, then adopted. I am also very very accustomed to , I have written for all of the major tech mags. Being the first person to spot new technology is not new . It's how I make my living. I would like to see a discussion started here. I am pointing to this projector and I am saying. This could be the "Magical Low cost projector" Let's Vette it !
Not to put too fine a point on it here, but the fact that I am pointing to it well........ (I know I'm new to video but not to the pro audio world (-: )

Pete Leoni

ccotenj's Avatar ccotenj 08:08 PM 07-15-2012
^^^

ok, live it up...
RPS13's Avatar RPS13 08:21 PM 07-15-2012
I've seen a single LCD panel projector in person. It's probably more like a 40:1 contrast ratio, not a 4000:1.

The focus uniformity looks pretty bad in the pictures posted in that ad, so that'd be the first clue you're "getting what you're paying for."
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 08:25 PM 07-15-2012
Nope not pushing "buy", not yet. Like to hear more here.

Lets see if there are some serious reasons postulated why a single LCD/LED projector can't be an improvement. I may be able to get one of those units to test as well. Would love to hear from some of the "scientist" types here , tired of being the G-pig all the time. (-: Would anyone here care to elucidate me as to the advantages/disadvantages of 3 LCD over single LCD provided a high lumen low heat light source is provided???? Audio? Well I still have a Thorens turntable AND Apogee converters. (-: I am just very curious about this.

Thanks, Pete
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 08:27 PM 07-15-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPS13 View Post

I've seen a single LCD panel projector in person. It's probably more like a 40:1 contrast ratio, not a 4000:1.
The focus uniformity looks pretty bad in the pictures posted in that ad, so that'd be the first clue you're "getting what you're paying for."

Yeah, hard to tell from pics, but a clue anyway. If I can get a sample it would be nice.
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 08:45 PM 07-15-2012
Ok. OEM say this is the source of these units and that these specs are relevant. Please note and push specs tab. Anything look suspicious?

http://www.vivibright.com/en/productshow_43_27.html
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 08:47 PM 07-15-2012
Hmm, that one say 800 lums and looks different too.
dolphinc's Avatar dolphinc 08:52 PM 07-15-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post

Ok. OEM say this is the source of these units and that these specs are relevant. Please note and push specs tab. Anything look suspicious?
http://www.vivibright.com/en/productshow_43_27.html

The only thing suspicious is that you have start 2 threads pointing to this same projector on eBay. Seems like your really pushing this projector beyond just someone looking for advice.


I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
eat meat's Avatar eat meat 09:04 PM 07-15-2012
Quote:
f 1024 X 768,. (native 720 obviously)

sorry this is not 720p(1280x720) or hd at all,in fact its not widescreen but 4.3 ratio
WesM228's Avatar WesM228 09:47 PM 07-15-2012
Looks like a white van item. You see these a lot with speakers pretending to be high dollar with lots of bells & whistles, like Kirsch or Divinci to name a couple.
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 10:22 PM 07-15-2012
Simple, if it's not a major brand name in projectors, don't buy it. Period.
There are zero exceptions to that rule unless you just want to play the fool.

Look to a refurbished or used 1080p projector or a new 720p one on sale and you can still get a nice projector for $400 to $600.
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 11:24 PM 07-15-2012
Hell no!!!!!! I'm not pushing anything!

Anyone that knows anything about me knows I am always looking for great inexpensive gadgets to point out and enjoy fighting the big guys. I don't sell and those that do don't like me much. I never ever cut anyone slack when I did gear reviews for MIx etc., F'em, I believe in unrestrained unfettered capitalism amd across all borders, he who sell the best product at the cheapest price wins! I am probably one of the main guys who made damn sure Apple has generic PC competition in the audio industry and I'm the guy who busted Intel for under-clocking the original Celeron 300a. (-: In fact I have linked to a few different projectors, that one in particular look intriguing. A few different sellers are selling it. I have never sold anything on Ebay or retailed anything, and i never hide my real name. BTW isn't any native 1024 x 768 going to do 16 x 9? A bunch of those on Ebay are now doing 1024 X 768 native.

Major brands? Major brands are usually made in China and snuck out the back door with the same guts with another name. I would not be supposed if some of these aren't what we will see soon re-badged as names we know.There hasn't been anything such as a major brand in electronics in many years. The though of me giving a crap about sales or money in general is weird. Ask any of my ex wives (-:
No shill here, I could give a crap. I do enjoy finding hidden gems though. I have also been looking at a used DELL 1510x. Saw one doing wedding photos BRIGHTLY and clearly at a gig I played and was very surprised at the clarity and color for a so called DLP office projector. If anyone has one of those for sale hit me up. I am also open to answering anyone's pro audio questions, converters mics etc.Glad to be here I am now an official video nut, and I plan on doing the same work I did in the audio industry, finding the good stuff and writing about it. I still think they are sneaking something in on us on regarding these projectors on ebay. There are a bunch of them that just popped up in the last few weeks.


Pete
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 12:04 AM 07-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

Quote:
f 1024 X 768,. (native 720 obviously)
sorry this is not 720p(1280x720) or hd at all,in fact its not widescreen but 4.3 ratio

My current NEC VT580 1024 x 768 certainly does do 720p well. Perhaps I should have said that 1024 x 768 certainly is high definition. With that in mind, I consider native res of 1024 x 768 or better to be my starting point. Clearly this is well covered in this forum, sorry for repeating it. Love your screen name, damn right. A rib-eye would hit the spot!!!
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 12:16 AM 07-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphinc View Post

The only thing suspicious is that you have start 2 threads pointing to this same projector on eBay. Seems like your really pushing this projector beyond just someone looking for advice.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

Don't be silly, we are here to find good cheap projectors, as per forum heading. I'm looking for info, as much good info as I can cram in my head, as fast as I can cram it. That one along with a bunch of others like it have creeped onto fleabay very recently. I've seen a lot od stuff start that way. This one is just a good example. No one yet has really bothered to look deeply at the specs. I have no idea who this company is, but I am guessing they are the OEM for one of the big names. If we could find this out, we could bypass the middleman perhaps. I notice that they are doing both 3 lcd and single LCD led models. One of the ebay guys dropped this name in a question I asked, then quickly erased the answer. Do any of these Chinese cheapies look familiar to anyone?

http://www.vivibright.com/en/
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 12:23 AM 07-16-2012
Haha!!!!!! Got to love this one. I quote, so help me:

"China's First Cheapest 1080pHome Theater Projector" biggrin.gif

Specs look great. Anyone recognise this in some other clothing?

http://www.vivibright.com/en/productshow_85_52.html
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 12:33 AM 07-16-2012
I hope this isn't the "projectors under $3000 without stepping on somebodies toes forum", because if I find something great out there dirt cheap *anywhere* I'm going to post it in hopes all of you will help me vet it. As I mentioned I don't much believe in the "You get what you pay for" "Major brands only" "Can't trust anything made in country x" bullcrap. Sony broke me of that. The name Sony used to mean something at least mediocre, not necessarily now. I do trust Samsung however.The best 46" TV I found was a "Dynex" brand at Best Buy. Now I don't need it because I can't bear to watch anything smaller than 120" BTW LOVE this tuner, beats the crap out of more expensive sticks. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815260023
Sherardp's Avatar Sherardp 07:06 AM 07-16-2012
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 01:34 PM 07-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post

I would not be supposed if some of these aren't what we will see soon re-badged as names we know.There hasn't been anything such as a major brand in electronics in many years. The though of me giving a crap about sales or money in general is weird. Ask any of my ex wives (-:

This is not true and is a complete misunderstanding of the process. There is some oversight with major brands as they have a name to protect, I don't care if they make the projector in Ethiopa, the name brand MEANS a lot in projectors for MANY reasons. There are not generic chinese or taiwanese equivalents you can buy that are the same thing. You can sit here and argue with projector veterans and spew random information about Chinese rebadges, but that does not make it true. Many of these projector designs have been in the works for many many years and are incremental improvements of years of re-engineering, some have hundreds of patents. The engineering was done in different countries, JAPAN was one of them I believe, Taiwan, and likely even some co-operative efforts between the US. Where they are assembled is only 1 of 100 factors as far as the quality of the projector. The main issue is the designs, which are generally unique to each projector and they are not sold to generic OEM's to make equivalents.

Also TI (DLP chip maker) and Epson (LCD Panel Maker) do not provide the full kits with all engineering details already performed, that is left up to the projector MFR. I know because I've read some of the TI docs that they give the manufacturers, they leave engineering implementations up to the MFR for the most part. I would suggest you stop grouping projectors as another generic electronics item that you can buy from China as an identical REBADGE (sorry, but no, you're 100% wrong).

The only generic "NEAR equivalent" you could potentially get would be possibly a low-end DLP, as these designs are more straight forward, but it wouldn't have the contrast or perks, and for that we have providers like Acer if you want a "somewhat" generic and cheap DLP that actually works and looks good. It would also likely be using cheaper resistors and capacitors and be more likely to fail. A no-name chinese or taiwanese manufacturer cannot make the same features and quality at the same low price as the veteran projector manufacturers, because there are exclusivity contracts, patents, engineering hurdles, and all kinds of issues. Before spewing chinese rebadge as some viable alternative, I suggest you learn the fundamentals.
dolphinc's Avatar dolphinc 01:47 PM 07-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

This is not true and is a complete misunderstanding of the process. There is some oversight with major brands as they have a name to protect, I don't care if they make the projector in Ethiopa, the name brand MEANS a lot in projectors for MANY reasons. There are not generic chinese or taiwanese equivalents you can buy that are the same thing. You can sit here and argue with projector veterans and spew random information about Chinese rebadges, but that does not make it true. Many of these projector designs have been in the works for many many years and are incremental improvements of years of re-engineering, some have hundreds of patents. The engineering was done in different countries, JAPAN was one of them I believe, Taiwan, and likely even some co-operative efforts between the US. Where they are manufactured is only 1 of 100 factors as far as the quality of the projector. The main issue is the designs, which are generally unique to each projector and they are not sold to generic OEM's to make equivalents.
Also TI (DLP chip maker) and Epson (LCD Panel Maker) do not provide the full kits with all engineering details already performed, that is left up to the projector MFR. I know because I've read some of the TI docs that they give the manufacturers, they leave engineering implementations up to the MFR for the most part. I would suggest you stop grouping projectors as another generic electronics item that you can buy from China as an identical REBADGE (sorry, but no, you're 100% wrong).
The only generic "NEAR equivalent" you could potentially get would be possibly a DLP, as these designs are more straight forward, but it wouldn't have the contrast or perks, and for that we have providers like Acer if you want a "somewhat" generic and cheap DLP that actually works and looks good. A no-name chinese or taiwanese manufacturer cannot make the same features and quality at the same low price as the veteran projector manufacturers, because there are exclusivity contracts, patents, engineering hurdles, and all kinds of issues. Before spewing chinese rebadge as some viable alternative, I suggest you learn the basics of how this business works.

Thank you coderguy. I was waiting for an expert to chime in and set the record straight. I am not sure what his motives are but this whole thread has a very strange feel to it.
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 01:51 PM 07-16-2012
That's not to say there aren't a couple really good foreign projector manufacturers that don't do much (if any) business in the US, there are some higher-end ones, but you aren't going to get it any cheaper and you'd have to import it, it would be more expensive for similar quality. The reason is because these companies (Panasonic, JVC, Epson) are already global companies, so they are already competing in most of those countries anyhow.
eat meat's Avatar eat meat 03:02 PM 07-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post

My current NEC VT580 1024 x 768 certainly does do 720p well. Perhaps I should have said that 1024 x 768 certainly is high definition. With that in mind, I consider native res of 1024 x 768 or better to be my starting point. Clearly this is well covered in this forum, sorry for repeating it. Love your screen name, damn right. A rib-eye would hit the spot!!!
no it is not hi def and it cant do 720p,its just fudging the aspect ratio with black bars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_video
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 06:57 PM 07-16-2012
Thank you.
I appreciate the responses. I supposed I'm not quite as concerned about my lack of knowledge of Chinese re-branding as I am about the latent technology and potential of single LCD projectors when powerd by big LEDS. Thank you for flling in the other less pregnant info. These sort of forums are always interesting. The parts I am most interested in however are those technical aspects, Rest assured however, that I will forever keep the other information always in the topmost portion of my mind. With that said can anyone fill me in on the negatives ot positives of single LCD as opposed to 3 LCD machines? It is often the case that engineering complexity is the result of a compromise. In this case I was wondering if the "3 LCD" compromise was due to lighting and heat issues, and whether they are now solved by high powered LEDs?

@Sherodp

Thanks, this one looks great, and that is useful info. It seems the Epson branded projectors are very nice for the money. Out of random curiosity does anyone know where they are made? Or for that matter where most of them are made?

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=dbb233065ab1a040519e1597cbc0fff9&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avsforum.com%2Ft%2F1420399%2Fok-ive-settled-on-this-one-seems-like-incredible-specs-around-500-or-less-shipped%23post_22222403&v=1&libid=1342484034955&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fctg%2FEpson-PowerLite-6100-LCD-Projector-%2F79119302%3F_refkw%3DEpson%2B6100%26_pcatid%3D48%26_pcategid%3D293%26_dmpt%3DUS_Video_Projectors&title=Ok%20I've%20settled%20on%20this%20one%2C%20seems%20like%20incredible%20specs%20around%20%24500%20or%20less%20shipped&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fctg%2FEpson-PowerLite-6100-LCD-Projector-%2F79119302%3F_refkw%3DEpson%2B6100%26amp%3B_pcatid%3D48%26amp%3B_pcategid%3D293%26amp%3B_...&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13424848225396
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 06:59 PM 07-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

no it is not hi def and it cant do 720p,its just fudging the aspect ratio with black bars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_video

Isn't that odd, Thanks.
So much mis-information about.
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 07:23 PM 07-16-2012

These look great. What I am interested in mostly however, is LED tech at a low price and high luminosity. The bulb life brightness and heat are major issues. I run mine 24/7 in the swamp in the remaining state of Mississippi.
peteleoni's Avatar peteleoni 07:34 PM 07-16-2012
For clarification to those who may need it: The reason for starting this thread was to find out if there was any new tech that combined low price, LED lighting, high luminosity, and high def. This will of course, occur very soon and someone will offer it first, and someone here will find it. Whatever is found will be "dissed" first, then grudgingly accepted, then praised. That is the way it always works. This thread is an attempt to find it. I will therefore link to any projectors I find regardless of brand so the inevitable process aforementioned will occur asap.
ccotenj's Avatar ccotenj 07:35 PM 07-16-2012
^^^

all of us are looking for that...

unfortunately, for "home theater" use (not business/classroom), the "low price" part doesn't exist yet... eventually, it will... but not yet...
1 2  3 

Up
Mobile  Desktop