Help me decide (please)- Viewsonic Pro8200/Optoma GT750/Epson 8350 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 07-16-2012, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I just graduated and I'm going to be going to Ft. Rucker for flight school at the end of the summer. I'm looking for a projector to put it in my room to use primarily for gaming, but also watch television (especially sports). I will use it for watching movies occasionally. I'll be honest, I didn't know much about projectors until recently. I thought I could just pick up a cheap projector and I'd be fine. Boy was I wrong. Anyway, after my research I've narrowed down my choices to:

Viewsonic Pro8200

I Iike thisone because of the many inputs/outputs in the back. I think this is useful because I want to connect it to my cable box, xbox 360(the white one w/o hdmi), and surround sound. I also like the PIP feature. The warranty seems pretty good too.


Optoma GT750

I like this one because first of all it's geared towards gaming, but also has 3D capabilities. I wasn't thinking about 3D at first, but this could be something I may want in the future depending on its market and its integration into gaming. It doesn't have as many inputs/outputs as the viewsonic Pro8200, but still has enough options. It is also a short throw projector, which I think could be good and bad. Good in the sense that I can sit/stand close to the screen, in case I wanted to use the kinect or wii, without getting in the way. It could be bad in terms of setting it up.

Epson 8350

I heard a lot of good things about this one, and originally thought I was going to go with this one. However, I'm not sure how I would set up the audio with this to my surround sound. I don't know if it makes any difference, but I have the Pioneer HTGS1 system.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Home-Theater-Systems/HTS-GS1

I also heard about people having issues with it breaking on them. Apparently Epson is pretty good with dealing with these issues, but I don't want to be replacing parts or the entire system frequently.


So those are the three projectors I am currently considering. As I said earlier, I have the original xbox 360 that does not have hdmi. I am considering getting a newer version of the xbox because I need a bigger hard drive anyway, and I could get a bundle with the kinect. I'm not looking to get a HUGE screen, nothing bigger than 100". Somewhere from 80"-100". My main concerns are being able to hook up my cable/xbox/surround sound with no issues. And of course, gaming without any input lag. I'm pretty sure these projectors are comparable and among the best when it comes to input lag. Thanks for reading this, I would appreciate your input and recommendations. Sorry if I wasn't very technical in my descriptions, but I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff.
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post #2 of 19 Old 07-17-2012, 02:29 AM
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Not sure what the input lag time's are on the pro8200 but assume is low. Think the biggest question between the GT750 and the Pro8200 is if you plan to game in 3D. Seems most hardcore gamers are choosing the GT750 over current 1080P projectors for the 3D gaming. Few reason's for it but biggest is the native 720P 60fps per eye. 1080P 3D projectors can do 720P 60fps per eye but is converted to 1080P and has some strange effects in video the native 720P of the GT750 renders it better.
If planning to do 2D only then I would choose a 1080P projector with a low input lag, more important if you play competitive shooter games with friends/people in link or online.
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post #3 of 19 Old 07-17-2012, 02:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help. I play a lot of sports games and shooters, and only planned to play in 2D. I think it would be cool to experiment with 3D gaming, but I don't want to base my decision on 3D itself. It would just be a "nice to have" feature in case I wanted to try it out.
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-17-2012, 12:09 PM
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I am very satisfied with my GT750. Note it is only 720p (others 1080p) but most console gaming is limited to 720p. 3D imho is a huge factor in gaming and you won't want to go back to the 2D version. I use my proj mostly for 3D movies and TV watching/sports and it is pretty competent there especially given the price. Plus it is short throw...meaning it mounts much closer to the screen. Big advantage if using Kinect or PS move.

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post #5 of 19 Old 07-17-2012, 01:22 PM
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All 3 projectors you picked would be good for gaming , I would think.
What I did in deciding which to buy was read ALL the reviews on Amazon and Newegg and other places to see if there are problems with the unit. For example, iris problems, white specks, conversion problems, dust blobs, short bulb life, short warranty, ect. And I especially looked at the bad reviews (why they didn't like it) and the user comments that others gave in following up what the "negative review" said. Hard to tell if PJ is good after writing a review the day you bought it, so look for people that say they have owned it for over 1 year and then decided to review it.
Then read the 3 forums that pertain to the 3 PJ's you listed, and look at posts from the last 2 or 3 months, so you have current info, not stuff that was fixed with firmware or solved. Current state of how people see the PJ.
Read the PRO reviews but these guys get tons of PJ's and don't know day to day problems. The PRO has compared tons of these PJ's so they give take on how these PJ's compare with each other.

Now things I looked for was:
Warranty
Brightness
Low lag for gaming (which all 3 you picked are good for).
Portable (so I could take to friends house and play on their wall, if I wanted to.
Internal Speakers so I could go portable but has option to add external sound.
User problems , if a NUMBER of people report the same problem, be very careful, because it is a pattern, and it's a roll of the dice. Don't think only "other" people have problems. Warranty on these is important because they are not cheap and very expensive to fix.
Check bulb prices too.
Also how many hours bulb gets, REAL world numbers not fantasy NUMBERS.
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-17-2012, 01:30 PM
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The Benq w710st has a better picture than the Optoma.
That one should be added to the mix. The bad part about the 720p projectors is most of them are 3x color wheels.


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post #7 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 04:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to throw another wrench in the mix, I've also heard a lot of good things about the mitsubishi hc4000. Does anyone know how this compares to the Pro8200 in terms of gaming/input lag? Thanks for all the help so far. I appreciate it.
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post #8 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkutsch View Post

Just to throw another wrench in the mix, I've also heard a lot of good things about the mitsubishi hc4000. Does anyone know how this compares to the Pro8200 in terms of gaming/input lag? Thanks for all the help so far. I appreciate it.

Here is a quote from Cobra 889 from the HC4000 thread post #275
Quote:
I did some input lag testing on the HC4000. If anyone is wondering it has between 30ms - 50ms of lag time/ 2-3 frames behind. The lag is not really noticeable to me. I tested both HDMI and VGA on 1920x1080, both were about the same.

Tested against a 22" CRT

Wasn't able to find info quickly on the Pro8200 for actual input lag tested, guessing close to the same as the HC4000.

Personal opinion but I would go HC4000 over the pro8200 if can swing the extra cost. And between it and the GT750 would deppend on how competitive you are in FPS etc in multiplayer games because every ms advantage can help. PQ quality the HC4000 will kill the GT750 in my eye's for movies and some games. All games color wise.
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post #9 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 02:14 PM
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Here is my friend's thread on comparing the models, Coderguy, he did a great job laying it all out for everybody.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391476/coderguys-top-projector-picks

He suggests that both the hc4000 and pro8200 would be good for gaming.
Things to also consider is brightness, sharpness, cost, bulb life, warranty.
Also, he says the pro8200 would be lowest in Rainbow Effect. Some people are bothered by Rainbow Effect, maybe you or maybe the other people watching with you, I don't know.
The hc4000 is about 300-400 dollars more .
Hc4000 has 2 years warranty, pro8200 has 3 years.

Maybe Coderguy will offer his comparing of the two for gaming.

What type of lighting conditions are you talking about, because the pro8200 would be better for non-light controlled environments, I think. Meaning if you were in living room and some lights were on or some windows were not covered it would still look good, I think the hc4000 is not as bright and might look faded if not in bat cave. Coderguy can offer his take on that, since I don't have the hc4000.
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post #10 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Out of the three i mentioned above, i was leaning towards the pr8200. Im pretty flexible with the price. I was gonna get the epsin 3010 until i realized it sucked with gaming. So i dont mind spending a little more for more quality. I just want to make sure that its just as good for gaming as the pro8200. I havent read anything comparing the two in strictly gaming/input lag. I play a lot of fps and online, so while i dont mind spending more for more quality, i dont want to sacrifice performance in gaming.

As for the ambient light, i will use it in my bedroom, which only has one window. There shouldnt be much ambient light, but i could easily control it if i need to. Thanks for all the help, i really appreciate it. Its my first projector, so i want to make an educated purchase.
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 05:44 PM
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I have a H9500BD projector and do a good amount of COD MW3 linked with 7 others through switch gear not over the internet and with them on LCD screens and me on my projector I am very competitive with the coming around corners and both firing I win as many as I lose so the 30ms of lag it has tested with via against lcd laptop screen likely 40-50ms actual input lag I think you would be happy with the HC4000 with similar lag times. The GT750 have tested better with input lag vs both, but image quality is not as high so is a pick your poison deal like most everything smile.gif .

The two obvious advantages the GT750 have are input lag and 3d capable HDMI 1.4a compliance.
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post #12 of 19 Old 07-19-2012, 02:38 AM
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Yeah, there are good choices out there to game on, and I think it's good that you check out all your options. It is your first PJ and you just graduated school, so this is a NICE graduation gift you are getting for yourself. Congrats!

Another thing to think about is if you are gaming alone or with others, are you watching the Movie by yourself or with others. How big a room? How much light?

How big a regular HDTV do you game on now or watch movies/football games on now?

I have a 42 inch hdtv I game on and for me, I like it about that size for MW3 or BF3 or other stuff like that, and for movies /TV shows many times my stuff is not saved in high def so having a super large screen to watch crap quality stuff on it is NOT a good experience. ON a HDTV 42 inch it looks ok. Now you could if you were on PC have multiple windows opened when using a PJ so you could adjust movie size window so it does look good if poor source, and surf the web in side window. That is cool. I have 3 or 4 windows going at one time, a few web pages open, docs, skype, gadgets like time, weather, etc. Nice setup with PJ using a PC.

Also, the advantage of bigger hdtv sizes is you can view it in any lighting situation, you don't have to worry about 4,000-6,000 bulb hours, usually you get over 50,000 hours on HDTV , so you can use it all you want.

Now where the PJ does shine is if you are playing with other people split screen or for wii, or watching a high quality movie or football game on BIG SCREEN in darker room by yourself or with others. Because it's very cool, like going to the movies. Also, a portable unit like the pro8200 and some of the others, are small to carry with you, whereas bigger size hdtv's are not easy to take with you. I am a portable gamer and it is cool to go to someones house and they play on their hdtv screen and I play on the big screen. Or we both play split screen using the PJ.

Also, how far away from the screen will you be able to sit, you got to be back further than with a 42inch screen, if too close it's too overwhelming. I don't like sitting close when I go to movie theater. I have to be about 8 feet back to really enjoy my PJ at home.

For me, it's a special experience , so I don't use my PJ that much if I'm by myself. But it is cool to take to friends home or watch with others or watch High Def football or Blu-ray movie, very cool. Thing to ponder.

Also, there are small LED PJ's , I don't know anything about them from actual use, but they have about 30,000 hours on them and are a little bit cheaper, but it may suck for gaming, I don't know and the majority are not in 1080p, 720p at best and even lower res.

Now some people are in bigger rooms than I usually am in, and a PJ would be very cool to watch all the time, and buying a bulb every couple of years is a drop in the bucket and well worth it to watch on 120 inch screen. smile.gif
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-19-2012, 03:41 AM
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I have seen the Viewsonic Pro8200 come in around 18-25ms for lag time, however I am not sure if the person doing the test used a CRT or LCD monitor. I would have to go back and find where it was tested, but do not remember which thread it was in.

The Pro8200 is better than the Optoma for image quality (VS has DC 3 + 1080p), but not quite as good as the Mits hc4000 or Acer 9500bd (although not that far behind either). The Viewsonic is much brighter than most projectors.


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post #14 of 19 Old 07-19-2012, 06:01 AM
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If you're a hard core gamer or play a lot of FPS's then I would definitely suggest the GT750. Numerous sources have tested it and it truly does have a 0ms response time. Anything over 5-7ms and you could notice some lag, especially in MW3 or BF2. Most 360 and PS3 games are in 720p so not a lot of reason to go with a 1080p. The crazy short throw on it also comes in handy if you'll be in a dorm room or the likes (5ft=100" screen).
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post #15 of 19 Old 08-19-2012, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I know I had asked about this a while ago, but just wanted to let you guys know that I went with the Optoma GT750. So many times I thought I knew which one I was gonna get and ended up switching. But I finally pulled the trigger. I should be getting my new projector and 100" screen in the middle of next week. I just want to thank you guys for all your input. It definitely helped me in making my decision. I ultimately went with the GT750 because of the input lag. The fact that it is a short throw projector was also a big plus for me. Thanks again for all your help.
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post #16 of 19 Old 08-20-2012, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzman76 View Post

I Anything over 5-7ms and you could notice some lag, especially in MW3 or BF2.

Generally 25-50ms is where hardcore online gamers claim to first notice a tiny bit of lag reflected in their Multiplay score, not 5-7ms. Even 25ms is nothing, but the problem becomes that it is added to your latency that exists online already. I am not a multiplayer gamer, but I am just saying...

I am also aware of the fact that technically even the tiniest amount of lag could determine the result of a tie breaker if two people clicked the mouse at the same time, but that would be a very uncommon occurence when playing over an Internet connection. I can explain it statistically, it is uncommon because in most online multiplayer games people have over 20ms lag to start with and the average spread in lag-time between the entire group of people playing online is much larger than that, so it exponentially randomizes the chances of that lag intersecting with another (making it irrelevant). 7ms is 1/143rd of a second. For statistical sakes, let's say someone was accurate 100% of the time and the lag always mattered ALL the time. Well in this one case if you were one of the world's greatest FPS gamers with the fastest reaction time and you were playing on a local LAN connection, then it could matter a bit.

Keep in mind that if you could click the mouse once every 7 milliseconds, that means in 1 SECOND you would have just clicked the mouse 143 times. I know that is comparing apples to oranges, but my point was only to show how fast 7 ms really is and to put it into perspective.


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post #17 of 19 Old 08-20-2012, 08:02 AM
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Fozzman76,

The Epson is the current reigning LCD Champ as far as having the least Input Lag, as it is measured at 16ms. As such it bests 99% of all PJs in existence, including DLP units. The average "ms" spec. for 'good' PJs is 24ms

I personally have neither seen anything in print as far as "ANY" projector having absolutely no input lag. Not that such might not very well be true, but rather than posting what amounts to being hearsay, how about a link to such information. I'm sure a great many would appreciate and value some definitive information on that subject.

Thanks in advance ! smile.gif

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post #18 of 19 Old 08-20-2012, 10:34 AM
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Here's the link to one of the reviews showing 0ms response time: http://www.projectorreviews.com/game-projector-blog/review-optoma-gt750-gaming-projector.html

There were a few other reviews that also tested it and got the same results but I don't have the time to search for them now, Google "GT750 0ms" or "GT750 response time" and you'll find them easily enough. Before buying the GT750 I read just about every review on the web about it (only exaggerating a little bit sadly), this was just the projector that worked best for me. It's been over a month now and I still love my GT750.
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post #19 of 19 Old 08-20-2012, 07:21 PM
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Thanks Derek......,

.....and please take no offense Fozzman76. It did seem a bit incredulous as specification. I suppose it is tied to the fact that the 750 is not 1080p, but a WXGA unit designed as stated to be optimal for Gaming 1st, and Home Theater use 2nd.

But everything is here for a purpose, and I happen to have need for a Short Throw PJ for a Display, so hey.....I'm on board it seems. wink.gif

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