Does "I Am Legend" have blacks that ARE this terrible? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 07-24-2012, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sorry for posting this here as I wasn't sure of the completely appropriate forum for it but I chose here because it might have something to do with my AE4000.

I was demo'ing a few scenes from various movies earlier this evening as I do once in a while and one of them was "I am Legend". My gosh, in the scene where he goes into the building to look for his dog, the blacks are so bad on my setup that I had to ask around and see if it was just my gear. I mean, just terrible, very hard to pick out detail when there wasn't a flashlight in the scene and just badly washed out.

I was having a hard time accepting the "black level" of my projector as a whole but it's "kind of" grown on me although I so wish it could be better but now, I really want to believe it's the movie and not my PJ.

Can anyone else confirm my findings?
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post #2 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 08:14 AM
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Try using a different Blu-ray player to see if it makes a difference.
Quote:
Black levels are fantastic, producing a deep and dark image, when appropriate, that adds another level of dread to the already frightening proceedings. There is a fine amount of grain visible in certain dark shots, notably those lit only by the light on Neville's M4. The image often presents contrasting light and dark scenes, moving from dark, lifeless interiors or nighttime shots, to scenes filmed in broad daylight.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/I-Am-Legend-Blu-ray/670/

All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Movies

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post #3 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 09:51 AM
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From http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1761/iamlegend_uce.html ...

"Right from the opening sequence depicting a decimated New York City, the transfer exhibits a clarity and sense of depth that is first-rate. The source is absolutely tip-top, with perfect blacks and (for once) contrast that's well modulated across the entire grayscale and without the usual blown-up whites. Colors are vibrant and saturated but not overdone, which further enhances detail..."

This movie looks great on my RS40. Outstanding black-level performance was the primary reason I picked JVC.
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post #4 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 02:01 PM
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Proper calibration?

Screen?

Room?


Jason
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post #5 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging my whole setup with just this one movie, I have tried many others and while I'm not thrilled with the blacks overall, this movie was just terrible in that scene, I think anyway, that scene was almost completely washed out on the gray side.

To answer your questions though, I have not calibrated the PJ yet, still researching on whether or not it will give me a vast improvement vs the money spent. Screen is Seymour Center Stage XD material and the room is completely light controlled with dark maroon walls and black ceiling.

smile.gif
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 03:51 PM
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Time for a JVC.biggrin.gif
The projector is most likely the problem.
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post #7 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging my whole setup with just this one movie, I have tried many others and while I'm not thrilled with the blacks overall, this movie was just terrible in that scene, I think anyway, that scene was almost completely washed out on the gray side.
To answer your questions though, I have not calibrated the PJ yet, still researching on whether or not it will give me a vast improvement vs the money spent. Screen is Seymour Center Stage XD material and the room is completely light controlled with dark maroon walls and black ceiling.
smile.gif

I have a properly calibrated AE4000 (flat 2.2 gamma) so I'll check that scene out for you next time I fire it up, last time I watched that it was on my Sharp 12k mkII with a 2.4 gamma so I don't recall any serious issue.

If the CRT guys are claiming the movie is at fault then I would say that is what it is and not the PJ at fault.

A proper calibration is absolutely worth it, the qaulity of my image improved by an obvious margin after I calibrated it (6500k/D65).

On that note were you not the one claiming your blacks were blue pushed?

Jason
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post #8 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 06:06 PM
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I've watched this particular blu-ray on a CRT and the blacks were perfect. The scene you describe was surreal on a CRT. There has to be a setting wrong somewhere, although a digital won't be able to match a crt regardless.
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post #9 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

I have a properly calibrated AE4000 (flat 2.2 gamma) so I'll check that scene out for you next time I fire it up, last time I watched that it was on my Sharp 12k mkII with a 2.4 gamma so I don't recall any serious issue.
If the CRT guys are claiming the movie is at fault then I would say that is what it is and not the PJ at fault.
A proper calibration is absolutely worth it, the qaulity of my image improved by an obvious margin after I calibrated it (6500k/D65).
On that note were you not the one claiming your blacks were blue pushed?
Jason
Yes, I think my blacks are on the washed out blue scale, but this scene was on the very grey scale, compared to outside the screen anyway. I just feel that I lack detail in dark scenes in general, or even dark parts of bright scenes. I'm not sure, maybe I calibration will help a lot, maybe not at all. Who calibrated yours, pimp?
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 06:43 PM
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Chris,

I do my own calibrations, have all the gear and been doing them for years with various equipment. Initially learned much of what I know from an ISF/Cedia/HAA certified friend.

Jason
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post #11 of 21 Old 07-25-2012, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I wish you were closer to me mad.gif

Any tips you can give me for the AE4000 that I might be able to do myself?

EDIT: Just realized you never posted your results in my other AE4000 calibration thread rolleyes.giftongue.gif
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post #12 of 21 Old 07-26-2012, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging my whole setup with just this one movie, I have tried many others and while I'm not thrilled with the blacks overall, this movie was just terrible in that scene, I think anyway, that scene was almost completely washed out on the gray side.
To answer your questions though, I have not calibrated the PJ yet, still researching on whether or not it will give me a vast improvement vs the money spent. Screen is Seymour Center Stage XD material and the room is completely light controlled with dark maroon walls and black ceiling.
smile.gif

Just get a good calibration disk and do the basic calibration yourself (I am assuming you havent done this?). Also make sure your 'black level' is set properly on your projector AND your source.

I am pretty sure you will find its just your settings
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post #13 of 21 Old 07-26-2012, 03:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Believe it or not but I did do a basic cablibration (brightness and contrast anyway) with the AVS HD disc I downloaded. My levels seemed to be ok as is so I only slightly tweaked a few settings but it didn't help my black levels at all.

I don't know how to set black level on the source and maybe on the PJ either, I assume you mean brightness and contrast? I did throw my PS3 in the mix when I first was having a hard time accepting the black level but that didn't change a thing. Some other folks with a 4000 use a HTPC and they seem to LOVE their blacks... idk rolleyes.gif
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-26-2012, 11:41 AM
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get it calibrated.
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post #15 of 21 Old 07-26-2012, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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That's a pretty bold statement sog35, have you seen a AE4000 before and after professional calibration?
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post #16 of 21 Old 07-26-2012, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a VERY crude example of how bad the blacks are in the movie, this one scene anyway. This is a photo of my Panasonic plasma, which is just as bad as the PJ. Again, very crude sample, and it's a bit worse in person but you'll hopefully get the idea. The difference between the black bars and the darkness of the scene is very prominent...

TV.jpg
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post #17 of 21 Old 07-27-2012, 01:46 AM
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Chris,

It's the movie itself, I just took that scene for a spin on 3 different fully calibrated displays and even on a 6500K/D65 display with a 2.4 gamma it has elevated and noisy blacks (in that scene).

Jason
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post #18 of 21 Old 07-27-2012, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for taking the time to do that, I figured as much with that scene. As far as the AE4000 goes, did you notice a big difference in overall black levels before and after calibration?
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post #19 of 21 Old 07-27-2012, 12:24 PM
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My black level did improve post calibration. Proper brightness, gamma and greyscale all contribute. Since you seem to have blue in your blacks your greyscale is not accurate down low and this is elevating your black level. Having the projector professionaly calibrated for your viewing environment (room/screen) can make a substantial difference in most cases (no way of knowing just how far off your AE4000 is currently). Just be sure if you venture down that road you hire someone that knows what they are doing and has experience with front projection (like many of the well known pro's here at AVS). I think Chad B. may service your area (not certain) and he would be an excellent choice (he recently did an AE4000 and posted his findings in the calibration forum). Just do not expect to totally change the characteristics of the projector, it will only get so black (regardless of calibration) and it may just come to be that you desire something more (like what a JVC offers).

Best of luck and remember the only way to see your display reach its full potential is to have it properly calibrated. wink.gif

Jason
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-27-2012, 03:02 PM
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If you don't mind a little nudity check out the Big Lebowski dream sequence starting at 1:20. Here is some more material that is great for showing off your projector's black level: Be sure to watch in HD smile.gif

Pioneer Black Hole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDuKXTJZUa4

PS3 This Is Living
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lky7x0xMzO0
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post #21 of 21 Old 07-28-2012, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks pimp for the suggestion and info and thanks sisyphus for the links!

I took another very crude snap shot of my screen with a "no input" signal and minus the blue tint which I can't see so prominently in person, you can get an idea of the difference between no light and what the PJ is throwing as a "black". Don't mind the dust but if you can see, why is there a darker/reddish tint at the bottom left and top right? I can barely see it if at all in person but it's very prominent on the camera...

confused.gif

IMG_4643.jpg
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