What stretching "problem" with the LG HW300T! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 07-27-2012, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
obscuro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
It is disturbing to constantly read some comments about the problems on the HW300T. The LG HW300T performs according to the specs that I found in the user's manual.

If you read the initial reviews you will find that if you send a 1280x800 (16:10) signal you will get a 1280x800 signal properly display with NO STRETCHING. If you played 16:9 material through the USB port or over LAN you got a 16:9 signal!

The 16:10 aspect ratio is a computer resolution. Hooking a 16:9 aspect ratio player and complaining that it is stretched to 16:10 on a 16:10 device is simply not logical. It was not a problem. It was a feature: a feature that has been added with an update.

That same review listed another problem: the projector did not display 50 Hz signals (for European signals). The manual lists 60 Hz. Again, from my perspective the projector did what it was advertised to do: play 60 hertz signals. So it lacked the feature to play 50 hertz signals. But should that be considered a problem?

Finally, I have read a lot about the focus "problems" with the LED projectors. I have experienced them too. However, I experienced them on my Epson HC 720 and I just ignored them because they were not bad enough to detract from watching video.

The more I thought about the focus problem the more I wondered if more people with conventional projectors had focus problems but just did not notice them. I thought about the size of the pixels, throw distance, f-stop and most importantly whether or not the projector was perpendicular to the screen.

In reviewing a recent Epson lamp based projector, Projector central also noticed focus problems. I’ll bet that a lot of projectors (especially the 1080 ones) are not edge to edge sharp as installed. And I’ll bet that that has not been much of a problem.
obscuro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 07-27-2012, 01:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
You will find that reviewers do not spend enough time with a projector in most cases (they are rushed).

As far as user reviews, well many people buying lower cost projectors will be too hung up on every issue they find, because they do not really understand what people go through with projectors (they tend to be new buyers). Most people buying sub-$1000 projectors were used to TV's.

It was the same way in the Viewsonic Pro8200 thread, after reading some of the negative (loses color settings, eco mode not working, PJ resetting, calibration issue) and all the other stuff I read, I took a chance and got a refurb with an older firmware, and I found 90% of the complaints were so easy to workaround. For instance, the thread was full of people yelling with so much anger at Viewsonic about the colors being reset, but it only took me 5 seconds to adjust it when I fire up the PJ each time because the CMS settings are not lost, only 3 of the grayscale settings (no biggie). The ECO mode was never lost as people said (only if playing with certain settings), and many of the other problems did not exist even in the older firmware after I just found workarounds myself. It calibrated better than most projectors costing over $1500 and it was half that price, but people think projectors are like TV's and that every single setting will be super-refined. The budgets that the PJ MFR's are on to get the firmware's optimized and refined are not as large as TV budgets, so it is just a different thing.

Anyways, not saying any of the above issues are or ARE NOT valid, I am just saying that don't expect to buy a PJ without some issues (no matter what the price), you just have to know which issues you can live with.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 07-27-2012, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
obscuro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

You will find that reviewers do not spend enough time with a projector in most cases (they are rushed).
As far as user reviews, well many people buying lower cost projectors will be too hung up on every issue they find, because they do not really understand what people go through with projectors (they tend to be new buyers).
...
Anyways, not saying any of the above issues are or ARE NOT valid, I am just saying that don't expect to buy a PJ without some issues (no matter what the price), you just have to know which issues you can live with.

What you describe about the Viewsonic Pro8200 I would regard as problems. But like you, I would read as much as I can to see if there are solutions to those problems. Then I see if I can or would want to try to implement those solutions. If the price is right and the solutions are simple then it is a no brainer.

But that is NOT the case with the HW300T.

When I turn on my projector I get a beautiful, richly saturated picture. It is much better than a conventional TV because not only can I adjust the screen size to dramatic proportions but I am not constantly reminded of the wasted space on a TV because of the black borders.

Every time I have channel surfed, I always seem to stop at ALL SPORTING SCENES no matter what they are. The HD images are simply stunning.

Since I am not trying to set up a home theater I don’t have the problems that it seems many have regardless of their projector with contrast and black levels. I use files the AVSforum HDDVD, my AMD video card and the projector itself for quick calibration. With images less than 100 inches I am extremely pleased.

I tried to double the output brightness so that I could have an even larger screen and I was even more impressed. I used the Eyefinity function on my computer to display side by side halves of the picture. It worked quite well but required more space and resources than I wanted to use. I also tried to overlap images to double brightness. That required perfect alignment and I intend to experiment with prisms (it is a very small projector) to see if I can align the images and double the brightness. But it does work.

Anyway, my point is a lack of a feature is not the same as a problem.

Expecting an ATSC tuner to work where ATSC is not the standard and the tuner does not work is not a problem.

Expecting to play a 50 hertz picture on a system designed for 60 Hz but does not play properly is not a problem.

Expecting movies to play when those with DTS audio do not play audio is not a problem since other movie formats play extremely well.

Expecting a 1920x1080 signal (16:9 aspect ratio) to play on a 1280x800 (16:10) via HDMI but the signal is stretched to 16:10 is not a problem. Let’s face it how else would you get a 16:10 signal to be displayed?

Not adjusting the display to create a pleasing (stunning) picture is not a problem.

Using diagonal pixels instead of horizontal pixels is not a problem.

Loud fan output is not a problem especially if a lower (but dimmer) output option exists.

These are design considerations. These are FEATURES NOT PROBLEMS. I believe that a product should be judged based on whether or not it says it does.

Problems should be BASED on a FAILURE to do what was specified. I feel a lack of features should be listed as “it would be nice if…”

After all, there has to be a reason for the various projector forums based on price.
obscuro is offline  
post #4 of 10 Old 07-27-2012, 08:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
None of the VS issues affect my experience with it and they were fixed in an updated F/W. I mean 5 seconds of work after you turn on the PJ (some are really lazy) and people thought it was the END of the world. If I was paying 2k I would be like that's kind of gimpy, but even then it wouldn't bother me.

The VS has better color than most projectors even if you don't adjust it, there are PJ's I cannot calibrate as well as the VS that costs 6x more, so people are really somewhat clueless as every projector has issues. I promise you I could find issues with the hw300t PJ as well if comparing to other PJ's, as I've seen issues on every single PJ I'v e ever calibrated or owned (whether it be SAT tracking, color accuracy, brightness, lamp loss issue, sharpness, convergence, motion, contrast, I could go on forever). Every PJ has some weakness.

Having messed with many projectors, you'd be surprised at some of the bugs in even some of the more expensive ones smile.gif


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 07-27-2012, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
obscuro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

None of the VS issues affect my experience with it and they were fixed in an updated F/W. I mean 5 seconds of work after you turn on the PJ (some are really lazy) and people thought it was the END of the world. If I was paying 2k I would be like that's kind of gimpy, but even then it wouldn't bother me.
The VS has better color than most projectors even if you don't adjust it, there are PJ's I cannot calibrate as well as the VS that costs 6x more, so people are really somewhat clueless as every projector has issues. I promise you I could find issues with the hw300t PJ as well if comparing to other PJ's, as I've seen issues on every single PJ I'v e ever calibrated or owned (whether it be SAT tracking, color accuracy, brightness, lamp loss issue, sharpness, convergence, motion, contrast, I could go on forever). Every PJ has some weakness.
Having messed with many projectors, you'd be surprised at some of the bugs in even some of the more expensive ones smile.gif

I don't understand. Are you implying that I am saying there are NO problems with the HW300T? If so, that is not the purpose of my post. I am refering to labeling the lack of a particular feature or expecting a product to do more than it says it will do as problems.

When I read the experiences that people share I note what they find important and then try to relate to that issue. If the fan is "too" noisy but meets the published specs then I value their opinion but then I have to see if I feel the same way. For example, on one of the new LG projectors a couple reviews note that the fan noise seems to be within the spec but there is a "whistle". That is a problem for me because I am sensitive to certain sounds.

I thought you were listing "problems" (your word) and providing information about workable solutions. As long as there ARE solutions that I find acceptable (and affordable) then I'm okay.

But sending a 16:9 aspect ratio signal to a device that is designed for a 16:10 signal is NOT accurately describe as a problem if it doesn't display that signal like you want. I read the specs and I knew it was 16:10. I expected to use all of the display pixels (1280x800) with my computer. That's why it bugs me that people label the projector as having (or having had) an aspect ratio problem.
obscuro is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 07-27-2012, 11:45 PM
Senior Member
 
indio22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chicagoland area
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 32
I would categorize the stretching issue as a problem. The projector is advertised as providing big screen HD content "through any connected HD device". And the specifications list 16:9 aspect ratio control. It is not unreasonable that customers would want to connect devices that provide 16:9 output, and it is unreasonable that the projector could not accommodate. It seems LG was able to address the stretch issue with some software changes? So the problem was avoidable had LG release the product with this software.

Since I have an HTPC, the focus problem is more of an issue. I am not looking for perfection, but focus is so basic to image quality, it is really something they should get right. Leave off the tuners and bells and whistles if necessary, but at least keep the image in focus.
indio22 is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 07-28-2012, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
obscuro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by indio22 View Post

I would categorize the stretching issue as a problem. The projector is advertised as providing big screen HD content "through any connected HD device". And the specifications list 16:9 aspect ratio control. It is not unreasonable that customers would want to connect devices that provide 16:9 output, and it is unreasonable that the projector could not accommodate. It seems LG was able to address the stretch issue with some software changes? So the problem was avoidable had LG release the product with this software.
Since I have an HTPC, the focus problem is more of an issue. I am not looking for perfection, but focus is so basic to image quality, it is really something they should get right. Leave off the tuners and bells and whistles if necessary, but at least keep the image in focus.

Where is " through any connected HD device" advertised as a feature for the HW300T? If that is true then I would agree that it is a problem because I do not remember seeing "through any connected HD device" in the manual.

As far as the focus, I am still trying to get the conditions for the focus problem. The best parallel I see is in reviews describing the the DLNA and not working well. But when the antenna is oriented correctly then it does. It may require moving the router or adding a USB extension cable but the fault is not the projector it.

I have yet to see anyone say that they made sure that the projector was perpendicular to the screen. There may be a problem doing so. But since the "focus problem" seems to appears across the ENTIRE CLASS of mini projectors I have insufficient input to call it a problem. It is an annoyance much like pre-image stablized camcorders. The camcorders remained sharp if held perfectly still but people were not using them that way. Or another example would be getting blurry pictures from point and shoot cameras. The cameras focused fine but it took autofocus to solve the focus "problem" and get sharp pictures.

As I pointed out the focus "problem" does not seem to be confined to the new LED projectors. My Epson HC 720 has it and a recently reviewed Epson on ProjectorCentral does too. I still would like to know how many people with bulb projectors have the "focus" problem but just ignore it. Because they too would not have their projectors perpendicular to the screen. Please remember that because the pixels are smaller it requires a much smaller change in position to effect focusing.

As for being unreasonable to connect a 16:9 device to a 16:10 device and expect a 16:9 signal. It is (unless that feature is stated in the manual). I would agree if there are NO other ways to properly display a 16:9 signal but there are. What is reasonable is for me to expect to use all the pixels that I paid for and that requires that I connect a 16:10 device (a computer) to a 16:10 display (HW300T). I have the exact same "problem" with my Dell 1920x1200 monitors. I had to swap them for my 1080 monitors or live with the "stretch problem".
obscuro is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 07-28-2012, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
obscuro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I should also add that the 16:9 material was 1920x1080 that was used to display the problem on a 16:10 projector. When I looked that the reviewers images they were of 1080p and then I saw one of 720p but I did not see that size with all the scan options tested. In other words, did the HW300T fail to pass a 720p 16:9 signal in bypass mode and ignore the extra pixels or did it fail to RESIZE a 1080p signal to 16:9? If it failed to show a 720p signal as a 16:9 then I would consider THAT a problem. But I don't remember seeing THAT signal tested with all the scan options.
obscuro is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 07-28-2012, 11:34 AM
Senior Member
 
indio22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chicagoland area
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by obscuro View Post

Where is " through any connected HD device" advertised as a feature for the HW300T? If that is true then I would agree that it is a problem because I do not remember seeing "through any connected HD device" in the manual.
As far as the focus, I am still trying to get the conditions for the focus problem. The best parallel I see is in reviews describing the the DLNA and not working well. But when the antenna is oriented correctly then it does. It may require moving the router or adding a USB extension cable but the fault is not the projector it.
I have yet to see anyone say that they made sure that the projector was perpendicular to the screen. There may be a problem doing so. But since the "focus problem" seems to appears across the ENTIRE CLASS of mini projectors I have insufficient input to call it a problem. It is an annoyance much like pre-image stablized camcorders. The camcorders remained sharp if held perfectly still but people were not using them that way. Or another example would be getting blurry pictures from point and shoot cameras. The cameras focused fine but it took autofocus to solve the focus "problem" and get sharp pictures.
As I pointed out the focus "problem" does not seem to be confined to the new LED projectors. My Epson HC 720 has it and a recently reviewed Epson on ProjectorCentral does too. I still would like to know how many people with bulb projectors have the "focus" problem but just ignore it. Because they too would not have their projectors perpendicular to the screen. Please remember that because the pixels are smaller it requires a much smaller change in position to effect focusing.
As for being unreasonable to connect a 16:9 device to a 16:10 device and expect a 16:9 signal. It is (unless that feature is stated in the manual). I would agree if there are NO other ways to properly display a 16:9 signal but there are. What is reasonable is for me to expect to use all the pixels that I paid for and that requires that I connect a 16:10 device (a computer) to a 16:10 display (HW300T). I have the exact same "problem" with my Dell 1920x1200 monitors. I had to swap them for my 1080 monitors or live with the "stretch problem".

Below is a link showing the information I mentioned for the HW300T. The front page blurb mentions "any HD device". And under the Specifications>General Specifications tab, you can see the 16:9 aspect ratio control mentioned:

http://www.lg.com/ca_en/business/products/projectors/projectors/LG-HW300T.jsp

As for the focus, I haven't owned a projector, and so don't have firsthand knowledge of how the focus compares between these small LED and other traditional projectors. But it does seem like many of these projector have plastic lens rather than glass. And the small size format could also be exacerbating heat issues in terms of the plastic optics, hence the complaints that focus changes as the projector heats up. Do traditional projectors use plastic lenses? If not, that might be part of the problem with the LED projectors to date. I read that the upcoming new Qumi 5 LED projector will have glass lenses, so it will be interesting to see if this improves the focus abilities.
indio22 is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 07-28-2012, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
obscuro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Hey,
Thanks for taking the time to look up that link. I finally realized how to clarify my point. My previous post addresses the issue.

720p is HD content. So if the HW300T CAN play 720p PROPERLY from a 720p device then it is NOT a problem. If it stretched 1080p through the HDMI port but played 1080p CORRECTLY via DLNA or USB then the HW300T lacked that "feature" (of playing a 1080p signal on a 16:10 device) thru HDMI.

So if the reviewer had tested a 720p signal and used the "just scan" or "set by program" option but did not see a proper (16:9) signal then I would say the HW300T had a problem because I believe it is reasonable. I don't recall any images or indication of those two tests.

BTW, I use two tools to help me with focus: 1 tile block on which I set the projector and index cards to adjust the height. I can see the diagonal pixels and I use that to indicate that the screen is in focus. It does not take many index cards to dramatically alter focus.
obscuro is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off