Acer K750 vs H6500 + ViewSonic Pro9000 and Panasonic PT-RZ470 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 54 Old 07-27-2012, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys .....smile.gif

em waiting for the next couple of months of new HT projector to come out !!
have a look what to wait for ...

Acer K750 vs H6500

I wish the price will be under 1.5k cool.gif


and on the other hand we have ViewSonic Pro9000

link is here >>>


i think they are in the same circle of manufacturing like ( k333 and ml500 and ...etc ) with higher smiler price wink.gif

NOW for the HT projector deal comes Panasonic PT-RZ470

here >>>

but the price will be over 2k frown.gif

The 2013 looks promising for the PJ future tongue.gif

sorry for my bad EN redface.gif
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post #2 of 54 Old 07-28-2012, 09:39 AM
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Thanks for the link to the comparison. If I should judge from the pictures, them the H6500 looks to me far superior because of its brightness.
Lamp hours are not so much a problem for me. After 3 years my current projector has been used for about 800h (the expected lifetime of the lamp is 4000h in eco mode).
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post #3 of 54 Old 07-28-2012, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiggUA View Post

Thanks for the link to the comparison. If I should judge from the pictures, them the H6500 looks to me far superior because of its brightness.
Lamp hours are not so much a problem for me. After 3 years my currently projector has been used for about 800h (the expected lifetime of the lamp is 4000h in eco mode).
i was really surprised on comparison between those PJ
the H6500 was superior in terms of quality ( brightness wise )
as you said beyond the lamp life problem !!
another fact that the k750 is not out yet to be revealed by customer ....
could be the company policy not to spoil the H6500 market until the k750 comes out ...
the comparison its self may miss the type of screen color used to achieve the best for k750 and advantage for H6500 side
or even the k750 brightness setting !!

anyway the 2013 gonna be the most exciting year for the PJ fan
until then let the other product to come out with 1080p
higher lumens and contrast and lampless life with competitive price biggrin.gif

thanx alot SiggUA smile.gif
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post #4 of 54 Old 07-28-2012, 05:25 PM
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crap, I just saw the list price of the pro9000. 4,999 dollars! Wow, but it is Laser... very cool.
I guess most of us will wait until it comes down to 799. wink.gif In say 3 years?
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post #5 of 54 Old 07-28-2012, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

crap, I just saw the list price of the pro9000. 4,999 dollars! Wow, but it is Laser... very cool.
I guess most of us will wait until it comes down to 799. wink.gif In say 3 years?
I don't know how you get the price dude ( that's no way price )
if its to be true i better off with Acer k330 and live in peace for 3 years wink.gif

my budget dancing with 1,5k$ for pro9000 .. other then that kiss my money viewsonic tongue.gif
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post #6 of 54 Old 07-28-2012, 07:00 PM
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No one buys projectors for home use ,its a niche market.3000-4000 for a 1080p hybred is about right

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post #7 of 54 Old 07-28-2012, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyy484 View Post

I don't know how you get the price dude ( that's no way price )
if its to be true i better off with Acer k330 and live in peace for 3 years wink.gif
my budget dancing with 1,5k$ for pro9000 .. other then that kiss my money viewsonic tongue.gif


do you want to know where I got the list price for the pro9000 of 4,999?. Look at the LINK he provided for it. And you will see it. I don't know the street price, it's too new. But 4,999 for list is pretty high.

http://projectisle.com.au/Product-Detail.aspx?ProdID=29999


Recommended Retail $4999.00
Our Price (inc GST) contact us
Launched June 2012
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post #8 of 54 Old 07-29-2012, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

No one buys projectors for home use ,its a niche market.3000-4000 for a 1080p hybred is about right

well not exactly .. i believe the range 2000-3000 $ is about right cool.gif
why is that !!
hybrid laser/LED is the end of ordinary bulb/lamp and 3k lamp life no more to be seen in 2013 products i believe
new beginning cost higher for a start

now 4k resolution is the top end projector .. expect to see alot of competition 2013 4k or even 8k
and 1080p will be left behind with mid or affordable price wink.gif
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post #9 of 54 Old 07-29-2012, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

do you want to know where I got the list price for the pro9000 of 4,999?. Look at the LINK he provided for it. And you will see it. I don't know the street price, it's too new. But 4,999 for list is pretty high.
http://projectisle.com.au/Product-Detail.aspx?ProdID=29999

Recommended Retail $4999.00
Our Price (inc GST) contact us
Launched June 2012

thanx again rgtaa smile.gif

have a look here

Ger Trs

it says U.S. $ 2,990 wink.gif

and i still believe the range 1.5k$ will be the price next year 1080p competition rise biggrin.gif
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post #10 of 54 Old 07-29-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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dreams will come true biggrin.gif

NHK and JVC develop 8K projector

stay sharp tongue.gif
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post #11 of 54 Old 07-29-2012, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by yyy484 View Post

thanx again rgtaa smile.gif
have a look here
Ger Trs
it says U.S. $ 2,990 wink.gif
and i still believe the range 1.5k$ will be the price next year 1080p competition rise biggrin.gif
with a handfull of units being sold the price will not drop much if any(it never does much with ht pjs)-remember there are only 40,000 or so 1080p pj sold yearly worldwide and 1/3 are ultra high end.

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post #12 of 54 Old 07-29-2012, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

with a handfull of units being sold the price will not drop much if any(it never does much with ht pjs)-remember there are only 40,000 or so 1080p pj sold yearly worldwide and 1/3 are ultra high end.

Can you link to where you found that number. I would think 40,000 units a year worldwide for all PJ's 1080p would be super low. Please link? If you can. Benq seems to show 700,000 in 2010 , (which includes all there PJ's) here is link, and it's just one company.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BenQ%27s+projector+sales+to+soar+55%25+to+hit+700,000+units+in+2010.-a0242453863

I would think in the world more than 40,000 1080p PJ's would be sold combining all the company's, epson, viewsonic, optuma, pany, sony, etc. And you said "high and low end ( ultra high end)". I'm thinking you are way off base, there are 200-300 million people in the USA alone and over 6 billion people on the planet, and you are saying 40,000 worldwide sold in 1080p?
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post #13 of 54 Old 07-29-2012, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

with a handfull of units being sold the price will not drop much if any(it never does much with ht pjs)-remember there are only 40,000 or so 1080p pj sold yearly worldwide and 1/3 are ultra high end.

you maybe right Sir
but
what's used to be ultra high end is NOW low cheap end
and alot of people happy for what they pay they got ( k330 and ml500 and ...etc ) price of $549.99
by next year price will drop let say $399.99 range
by next year price of 1.5k$ you are 3X happier

if ur interested :

Worldwide projector sales to top 11m this year

What Will Spur Projector Sales in 2012?


wink.gif
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post #14 of 54 Old 07-29-2012, 10:42 PM
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Its widely know ,Ive linked to the numbers before(30,000-40,000 1080p ht pjs sold yearly),1080p HT projectors is a boutique or niche market,and whats ultra high end is still ultra high end($$$$$$)
Quote:
what's used to be ultra high end is NOW low cheap end
not true(for instance a 500$ 1080p pj with lens shift will prob never happen)
Quote:
by next year price will drop let say $399.99 range
why cause you want it to?small led pjs prices have been stable for 2 years or so now so....
5000$ to 20000$ 205 Projectors Found( ultra high end?)
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm?g=1&hide=0&st=1&mfg=&p=5000&p=200000&w=&r=&br=&ll=&t=&db=&dt=&c=&ar=&dvi=&pjl=&pjw=&pjh=&td=&i=d&is=&sort=%24&sz=15

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post #15 of 54 Old 07-30-2012, 05:13 AM
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eat meat
What do you think of these numbers.


http://www.pacificmediaassociates.com/press-releases/pacific-media-associates-expects-worldwide-projector-market-to-top-11-million-units-in-2012/

11 million!

I'm thinking these seem about right. So your 40,000 1080p PJ's sold a year , just doesn't make any sense, not worth it for company's to make, but 11 million ... seems more like it. Now out of the 11 million, I know it's more than 40,000 1080p's . smile.gif
I'm just thinking your numbers were before 1080p was popular, but really 1080p is the NORM now, a few years back 720p, and low res stuff. It would be nice to see the year your PJ count was taken, I'm thinking maybe 2009 or 2010? Think about it.
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post #16 of 54 Old 07-30-2012, 10:34 AM
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Dont confuse bis pj sales or world wide sales with 1080p HT sales-giant cheap tvs are killing HT 1080p pj sales.PJ theater rooms are few and far between.them making some HT pj money of off bizz pj tech is normal.remember there are already 27 1080p tru HT pure led pjs out there.....
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm?g=1&hide=0&st=1&mfg=&p=&w=&r=13&br=&ll=&t=&db=&dt=&c=&ar=&dvi=&led=1&pjl=&pjw=&pjh=&td=&i=d&is=&sort=%24&sz=15 all starting a 10,000$eek.gif
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Short-Throw Projectors and Solid-State Illumination Remain Key Growth Segments

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post #17 of 54 Old 07-30-2012, 11:28 AM
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There's no real reason they have to cost $10k. The "guts" of a reasonably bright ~1000 lumen LED 1080P projector probably wouldn't cost appreciably more than you see in the current crop of $800-1200 lower end HT 1080P stuff (Viewsonic Pro8200, Mitsu HC4000 etc.). Same DLP chip, go with some PT-120 LEDs (~$60-65 ea in qty of 1, figure down in the $45ish range in high qty, PT-54's in the current 500 lumen LED units are a little more than half that price) - the technology is out there.


It's just a question of who is going to put in the legwork and come out with one aimed at the HT market (which isn't anywhere near 40k units a year - no B&M store in the world would bother carrying HT projectors to sell maybe 2-3 a year per location). I imagine the first budget 1080P HT projectors will have a street price around $1500ish, then they'll slowly work their way down below $1k over 2-3 years.
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post #18 of 54 Old 07-30-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPS13 View Post

There's no real reason they have to cost $10k.

yes there is the obvious one..... sales numbers.

Quote:
which isn't anywhere near 40k units a year
sorry,your wants it to be dont count, this is a well know number.allong with the pricing of the hybreds.

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post #19 of 54 Old 07-30-2012, 12:36 PM
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I dont get many of the jee it cant be posts -I own a hybred and several led(3) pjs along with a hand full of bulbed.most pjs are used in large fourms(school/biz)
the home theater market is tiny ,i have posted the sales of HT pjs(from http://www.pacificmediaassociates.com/ lol)
Quote:
For several years PMA’s biennial (on the even years) Dealer Survey has documented the growing role of flat panel displays in meeting rooms.
Quote:
Menlo Park, California, USA – December 28, 2011. Pacific Media Associates (PMA), the worldwide market information experts on front projectors, have released their findings on the roles of front projectors and large flat panel displays in organizations.

This is the third set of important results from their sixth biennial (on the odd years) large-scale (1000 responses) and statistically representative survey of United States users and intenders of front projectors, both individual consumers and organizations. The survey focused on topics of timely interest, including requests for additional or modified questions from PMA’s extensive client base of front projector manufacturers. For several years PMA’s biennial (on the even years) Dealer Survey has documented the growing role of flat panel displays in meeting rooms. This year PMA added several questions to their 2011 End User Survey to probe this role in greater detail.

Projectors are still the dominant large-screen display within all meeting rooms, according to the survey. And end users expect projectors to retain their leading position next year too. However, an increasing number of two-display configurations with projectors and flat panels as well as flat-panel-only configurations are appearing in certain types of meeting rooms.

“As flat panel displays have gotten bigger, better, and cheaper, they have increasingly competed with projectors for use in meeting rooms. We learned from our survey respondents why they are attractive, though projector makers may wince at some of the answers,” says Dr. William Coggshall, President of PMA. “We found that flat panel displays large enough to serve “small” meeting rooms (which we define as those holding 10 or fewer people) are now cheap enough to compete with projectors. And that considerable numbers of flat panel displays are chosen either because of ambient light considerations or because they are to be used in a video-conferencing system.”

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post #20 of 54 Old 07-30-2012, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

Its widely know ,Ive linked to the numbers before(30,000-40,000 1080p ht pjs sold yearly),1080p HT projectors is a boutique or niche market,and whats ultra high end is still ultra high end($$$$$$)
not true(for instance a 500$ 1080p pj with lens shift will prob never happen)
why cause you want it to?small led pjs prices have been stable for 2 years or so now so....
5000$ to 20000$ 205 Projectors Found( ultra high end?)
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm?g=1&hide=0&st=1&mfg=&p=5000&p=200000&w=&r=&br=&ll=&t=&db=&dt=&c=&ar=&dvi=&pjl=&pjw=&pjh=&td=&i=d&is=&sort=%24&sz=15

em not trying to prove any thing !!
what i meant by:
Quote:
what's used to be ultra high end is NOW low cheap end
is what u got of $5.000 5 years back PJ . will not definitely compete with 2013 $5.000 PJ price in any terms
it may compete with the one 1k$ NOW
and most the expensive one goes with (school/biz) higher lumens

and if you look at the PJ tech growth .. not to say galaxy beam has laser PJ
so hybird/laser makes stuff effective and cheap + portable !!
like the 720p Pj back cost 5k$ the 4k res will cost 5k$ next 2-3 years
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post #21 of 54 Old 07-30-2012, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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GBI Research Predicts Pico Projector Growth




The researchers at GBI research is proud to announce the release of their latest study called, “Pico Projectors Market to 2016.” The writers announced a prediction that the global pico projector market will grow to $0.49 billion in 2011 to about $812 in 2016. That will equate to an annual growth rate of about 75%. The researchers believe that the main reason for the growth will be embedding pico projectors into other devices and the miniaturization of high-end projectors for professional use. Only time will tell if GBI Research is correct in their predictions.


Pixelworks Announces New Topaz SoC Processors

Pixelworks is a leader in projection display solutions. Today, the company announced that it has begun production shipments of its Topaz SoC family of display processors to tier one customers. The Topaz products provide a platform that enables both superior video quality and cost-effective 2D and 3D solutions for projectors. The products are mostly reserved for projectors used in the educational, business and home theater divisions. “Current projector technology is undergoing a significant transition as more diverse and sophisticated applications become available, creating expanded opportunities for our newest family of products. The evolution in illumination engines and light source technology is migrating from traditional lamp-based light sources to LED and laser technologies, which will enable a lower cost of ownership as well as more compact and portable designs. Advanced features such as network or mobile connectivity and interactivity trends are moving into mainstream models, helping to increase demand in the education segments – particularly in emerging economies such as China, India and Latin America. Pixelworks’ long history and leadership in the projector market, broad customer engagements and focus on advanced video solutions position us well to capitalize on this expected growth with our Topaz family of products as new technologies and applications re-energize the market,” said Graham Loveridge, Sr. Vice President of Marketing at Pixelworks.

North Carolina State University Unveils New Liquid Crystal Projector Engine



A team from North Carolina State University is proud to unveil a new liquid crystal projector. The developers think that this LCD engine could possibly replace the noisy, bulky engines currently being used. The conventional projector tech passes unpolarized light a filter, but the process is incredibly inefficient and only about 50% of the lamp light is used. The new design from NC State will introduce a new Wolfpack and ImagineOptix filter that will increase the light efficiency up to 90%. The design is also slimmed down and lot more compact than conventional designs. Unfortunately there is no word when the technology will be used by major manufacturers. Hopefully, we will see a follow up report soon.
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post #22 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

yes there is the obvious one..... sales numbers.
sorry,your wants it to be dont count, this is a well know number.allong with the pricing of the hybreds.

It's nothing about what I want, but you still haven't proven the source for that 40k/yr volume.

If it was really such a limited market, there is no way you'd see dozens of HT specific projectors out just in the <$3k range(heck, there are dozens out in the <$1k range!).

Let's say you've got 30 projector models with an average model lifecycle length of 3 years. That gives a whopping 4k unit volume for each model assuming sales are distributed evenly.

That said, there are probably more than 30 active HT/semi-HT projector models out there at any given time.



I fully believe there were 40k HT projectors sold... back in '05, but I don't buy it now. The industry is just too large for the HT projector market to be about 0.36% of all projectors sold. I'd say quite a few multiples of that at least.



Oh, look what a Google search brought up...

http://www.twice.com/article/485983-Home_Theater_Front_Projectors_Tally_11_Unit_Growth_In_Q1.php?rssid=20312
Quote:
According to market research firm Quixel Research, shipments of home-theater-specific front projectors in the United States were up 11 percent to 34,543 units from the same period in 2011[Q1 only], but were down 33 percent from the 54,221 units sold in the fourth quarter last year.

...and...
Quote:
According to Quixel, projectors with FullHD 1080p resolution continue to dominate the business, with 91.4 percent share of market, but that was down almost 2 percent from 93.3 percent in the first quarter of 2011, following the renewed interest in 720p products. Also indicative of the downscale trend, factory dollar volume for U.S. front projectors dropped 1 percent to $72.19 million from the first quarter of 2011 and 32 percent from the preceding quarter.

Sounds like about 150k HT projectors are sold each year, with 91.4% of those being 1080P models. Now that 150k/yr number starts making more sense in terms of how many players you see in the market and accounts for the 2-3 year average product lifecycle length that seems popular.


These stats don't seem to include crossover categories like portable and pico projectors that are doubling as HT projectors.


So...ahem... where is this 40k/yr volume coming from considering just 54k were sold in Q4 of 2011?
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post #23 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 10:57 AM
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the numbers i have posted be for are from http://www.pacificmediaassociates.com-they are well known 1080p HT sales numbers.
Quote:
According to market research firm Quixel Research, shipments of home-theater-specific front projectors in the United States were up 11 percent to 34,543 units from the same period in 2011, but were down 33 percent from the 54,221 units sold in the fourth quarter last year.

Tamaryn Pratt, Quixel principal, said some of the year-to-year unit shipment growth could be traced to lower-cost 720p HD models and price-reduced stepup 3D front projectors.
...

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post #24 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 11:21 AM
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50-250,000 for pjs anyways dont matter-50 million tvs over 40 inchs sold yearly(2010 numbers)-ask you local projector only sales associate how hes doing(oh snap)rolleyes.gif

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post #25 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

the numbers i have posted be for are from http://www.pacificmediaassociates.com-they are well known 1080p HT sales numbers.
...

.......


You quoted the same article I did. If you'll notice, they're talking about Q1 2012 vs. Q1 2011 and Q4 2011 numbers. As in, that is ONE QUARTER of HT sales. rolleyes.gif



I'm pretty sure the ACTUAL HT market is larger, since many pico/cross over projectors aren't included in those numbers. You can tell from this forum that there is pretty significant interest in budget LED projectors, so the stated numbers are very conservative.



It's not a huge market, but then again, it's a different market and distribution model. Besides, ask Best Buy how their flat panel TV business is treating them. It's rough times for everybody that can't properly keep their overhead in check given their revenue and profit margins.
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post #26 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 03:19 PM
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I think those numbers are wrong,and the numbers have been posted here before,and are well known and have been talked about.that 20 or so are posting about using a led biz pj proves nothing(really come on now).
Quote:
Tamaryn Pratt, Quixel principal, said some of the year-to-year unit shipment growth could be traced to lower-cost 720p HD models and price-reduced stepup 3D front projectors.
you cant just discount that part rolleyes.gif

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post #27 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 05:22 PM
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Some of us were just saying that even if you found the 40,000 1080p Worldwide a year article , we still would have to see when the article was written, and if they know how many amazon 1080p units were sold in 2011, .... all the makes and models and from best buy, newegg , buy.com etc. and all the high end stores that cater to high price PJ's... . Also, did they talk to epson or check their stats for how many units were made in 1080p versions?. It could be just some guy estimating based on a distributor somewhere , but all these companies sell direct and probably sell direct to amazon , newegg and other places and buy in VOLUME and cut out the middle men.

PROVE what you are saying, Guy, stop saying it's somewhere, and EVERYBODY knows this.

Now did you call epson and ask them how many they sold of 1080p's this year , and then viewsonic, and LG, sony, panny, and optuma, JVC, nec, ... i don't think so, and if not, even the article may not have.
I just can't see just 40,000 units wholewide of all brands combined 1080p's sold in 2011. Not out of 6 billion people in the world. Hell, I was thinking of picking up another 1080p myself.

Now in context, you said this only to say why the prices will not go down on Laser/Led for a few years, not much demand. It's new tech , I guess we have to see how long it takes, depending on how POPULAR it is. And you saying it will NOT be POPULAR because only 40,000 units sold of all 1080p's sold worldwide . And some of us just didn't believe that figure.
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post #28 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 06:23 PM
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some of you dont seem to understand a niche market-its been gone over before-owners of small led pjs(or pjs in general) think that they are making inroads on big cheap tvs-haa haa funny rolleyes.gif

250000 units-tv makers are selling around 4 times that per brand-do you understand???jebus......

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post #29 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 06:30 PM
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250,000 split among thes guys................what 75 or so companys proly 50 are making 1080p stuff


3M
AAXA
Acer
ACTO
Adapt Mobile
Adtec
Aiptek
AriusTek
Artec
Artograph
ASK Proxima
ASUS
Barco
BenQ
Bonitor
Boxlight
Brookstone
Canon
Casio
Chinavasion
Christie
Cineversum
CRE
Dell
Digital Galaxy
Digital Projection
Dream Vision
Dukane
EIKI
Elmo
Epson
Epson Europe
FAVI
H-PEC
Hitachi
InFocus
JVC
Knoll Systems
LG
Light Blue Optics
Lightspeed
Luxcine
Megapower
Micron Technology
Microvision
Mili Power
Mitsubishi
NEC
Oculon
Optoma
Panasonic
Philips
Planar
Portronics
projectiondesign
Pyle Pro
Ray Displays
RCA
Ricoh
Runco
Samsung
Sapphire
Sceptre
Sharp
SharpVision
Sim2
SiVal
Sony
Specktron
Tursion
VDC Display Systems
ViewSonic
Vivitek
Wolf Cinema
WowWee

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post #30 of 54 Old 07-31-2012, 06:45 PM
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Will low cost LED projectors displace LCD and plasmas??

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346318/will-low-cost-led-projectors-displace-lcd-and-plasmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post


You necro-ed an old thread, but that notwithstanding... "displace" implies that the first thing is in place, and the latter moves it out. To that extent, projectors have not only failed to displace LCDs and plasmas, the trend is precisely the opposite. With 80-inch (and soon 90-inch) LCDs that are affordable, flatscreens are beginning to displace the tiny number of projectors sold into homes.
go argue with rogo he has tons of data

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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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Acer H6500 1080p Widescreen Dlp Projector , Viewsonic Pro9000 Home Theater Dlp Projector
Gear in this thread - H6500 by PriceGrabber.com

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