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post #1 of 21 Old 08-19-2012, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, all.

I'm sure you all are SICK of these questions...but for a first time theater owner (not yet finished, but close), I am OVERWHELMED by choices and information. I know very little about projectors, and have never owned one (I'm more used to regular HD televisions, not projectors).

A bit about my room -- it's fairly small, roughly 20 feet long and 15 feet wide, first row seating roughly 10 feet from screen, 2nd row roughly 15 feet from screen. The projector will be about 16 feet from the screen, ceiling-mounted, and the screen will be 92" diagonal (45x80). The room has one east-facing window, and so will have some ambient light, (when watching sports, etc.) But, the window will have a blackout shade so that the room can be completely darkened, when desired, to watch a movie or whatever.

Here's a floor plan of the room...

main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1465

I ran this 25 ft. HDMI cable (from Monoprice), hoping that it will deliver what I need to the projector...http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024001&p_id=3990&seq=1&format=2

This room will be used roughly 70% for sports (mainly hockey and football), 25% for movies, and 5% Wii.

I do not need 3D, do not need speakers on the projector. My desire is to have the best picture possible -- PARTICULARLY without "blurring" during fast-motion (hockey and football). I don't even know what "specification" to look for on a projector that gives an indication of how well it will perform with "fast motion"...

Along with the best picture possible, I would also like one that runs as quietly as possible, one with a decently long-lasting bulb, one that is energy efficient (relatively speaking) and one whose bulb is not overly expensive to replace (relatively speaking).

My budget for this projector will be under $1000 -- ideally $700ish. I know this is a challenge; I am willing to go refurbished, or even used, if I have to, to get into a slightly better unit and still be under $1000. In this price range, there aren't many choices; would stepping down from 1080 to 720 be a possibility -- might this then open me up to a higher-quality (albeit lower-resolution) projector that might give me what I'm after? So far, I've taken a look at the following projectors: Acer H6500, Viewsonic Pro 8200, and the Optoma HD20. I have also looked at the Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6100, the PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB, and the PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 (which I can get refurbished, through Epson, at $649, $999, and $999, respectively). Finally, I looked at the Mitsubishi HC3800-GC, which I can get refurbished for $699.

Based on what I have to spend, and what I'm hoping to achieve, can anyone offer any opinions on any of these units I've mentioned, or perhaps suggest a different projector that might be a better choice? Like I said, I'd even consider 720p if that would help me to get a projector that would work well for me, and fit in the budget; my screen is not that large so I'm guessing 720p might not be the worst decision ever?

If I were forced to decide today, on my own, I'd probably opt for the Epson 6100 refurb (I like that price, and it got good reviews), with the 8350 second (just due to price).

I appreciate any help on this; thanks in advance...

Steve
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post #2 of 21 Old 08-19-2012, 10:54 AM
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If you look around I believe there are some comparisons that show the motion resolution. Get a laptop and slowly move a notepad document around and you can see how much resolution is lost.

I would think dlp would win out there and they are probably cheaper. My lcos doesn't do so well with motion but it's for movies only so it really doesn't matter so much. I can't see how LCD would be much better.


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post #3 of 21 Old 08-19-2012, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Verge..."motion resolution." That's an excellent way to put it. I've never heard it referred to with exactly that term, but that's exactly what it is -- a loss of "resolution" when things on the screen are moving quickly. Is there a "spec" that you look for to "measure" that? Is it "refresh rate?" On a regular HDTV, I know "refresh rate" might have something to do with this, but what about on a projector? Is this a "spec" that is even discussed with respect to projectors (I haven't seen it focused on much), and is it even the RIGHT spec?

I know many say "DLP would be better." BUT -- I have an old (2004 technology) Samsung DLP HDTV, and it STINKS with this issue (fast-motion sports). That might be an apples-to-oranges comparison, but still...

Anyway, I diD some more reading, and I like the Epson 6100 (given my budget). BUT -- it's not DLP...

Just not sure which direction to go. I tried to read about 720p units, and there doesn't seem to me to be a "top end" 720p unit that exceeds the performance of even a "bottom end" 1020p unit -- mainly because it seems like the focus of the manufacturers is on the 1020p units; all the technological advances, features, etc. appear to be being packed into the 1020p units, such that the 720p offerings are sort of an "afterthought." Is this a reasonable understanding, or am I missing some really nice 720p units that would perform better for me given my budget limitations?

Steve
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post #4 of 21 Old 08-19-2012, 07:03 PM
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Mitsubishi HC3800 will have the best NATIVE motion resolution from your list, however it does not have FI (Frame Interpolation). So, it also depends if you like Frame Interpolation (FI) for Sports. For movies, with FI on, people call this the soap opera look, but some people like it for Sports.

There are some higher-end used 720p projectors, but as far as new, I'd say the Benq w710st is the highest end 720p in your price range. It has an IRIS to get darker blacks, but only a 3x color wheel (so a poor choice in case of RBE sensitivity). I would imagine it would be good at motion, but I've never seen it.

No to the Epson 6100 as it would be near the bottom for motion. Any of the DLP's will be a bit crisper in motion, but the MIts DLP specifically (both hc3800 and hc4000) have reference level native motion for any PJ under $2000 when watching Sports without FI. The Mits hc3800 would be my pick overall from that list. The Mits also does pretty good black levels for movies and is a pretty sharp projector, it also tends to be pretty reliable (one of the most reliable long-term). Easy vote for the Mits. Your small 92" screen is also a perfect match for the MIts (Mits might be a tiny too bright at first, but over the long haul it will work great with that screen size). Just make sure it will fit in your room as it has no lens shift.



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post #5 of 21 Old 08-19-2012, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, coderguy, some great advice; I thank you. I'm not real familiar with FI -- don't know the advantages, with respect to watching sports. I have read some stuff that says just what you said, though, that it gives a "live" look to movies that is very artificial...

I have no idea if I'd be sensitive to the RBE or not, so I'd rather simply avoid it if I could; even if I personally would not be sensitive to it, others who watch (wife, daughter, guests) might be. This is an issue (RBE) JUST on DLP units, and mostly only on the ones with 3x color wheels?

So, NO to my top choice, the 6100...darn. However, the Mitsubishi hc3800 is also very nicely priced, and you said several things about it that I like (reliability, good for motion, good black levels, AND that it would be good for my small screen).

One question...back when I started this project 2 1/2 years ago, the projector I had decided on was an Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 720. I don't remember all the reasons, but I researched it pretty hard, and for my budget, that was my choice. I KNOW it would "fit" in my room, but I have no idea if this one will "fit" -- and don't know how "lens shift" affects the equation.

I saw that you have a "projector calculator" link on your signature; I checked it out but it was a little complicated, and a bit hard for me to understand. Here is a different calculator I used back when I had planned on the Epson 720...

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Home_Cinema_720-projection-calculator-pro.htm

With my screen size, and the location I intended to mount that projector at (16 feet from the screen), that 16' distance fell well within the "throw range" of that projector, so I presumed I was "good." From another set of calculations (I think this was when I calculated my riser height, etc.), I had decided that the "right" screen height for my room was 33" from the floor to the bottom of the screen.

Now, when I plug these numbers into that calculator you have linked, (or the one I had used before, for that matter), and plug in the Mitsubishi 3800, I seem to have issues. First of all, it would seem that my ceiling height is not high enough to have a screen bottom 33" from the floor. I'd have to lower the screen -- which I think throws off other things (the riser height, etc.) IIRC. Then, it would seem that the calculator suggests that I would need to mount that projector considerably closer to the screen -- ideally 12', but no more than 14'. That's not good, as I already have the electrical box that has the HDMI cable in it, set in the ceiling at 16' from the screen, with no way to move it.

Hmm...I think I am running into these issues because of the "no lens shift" thing you mentioned, and limited zoom ability on the Mitsubishi? Interestingly, when I enter the Epson 6100 into your calculator, it would seem that my 16' distance, and 33" bottom of screen, would work fine, except that I'd have to use some "lens shift" in order to mount the unit close to the ceiling, which I prefer (otherwise, to have no "lens shift," it appears I'd need a 15" mount pole, which I'd like to avoid). Is there anything "negative," in general, about using "lens shift" so as to adjust your projector placement? Is it "more ideal," image-wise, to use NO lens shift?

Am I correct that it appears the Mitsubishi would not work well in my room (would have to lower the screen considerably, and move the mount point considerably closer to the screen?)

Thanks,

Steve
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post #6 of 21 Old 08-20-2012, 02:34 AM
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If it were me, I'd buy the Mits hc3800 first and give it a shot, it just has an overall better image than the Epson 6100, you can always return the Mits hc3800 if it doesn't work out and then get the Epson. So out of that list and given your viewing requirements, I would still pick the hc3800 and make it work over the others, let me explain why and how... $700 is a heck of a deal for the Mits hc3800, and DLP's on the refurb market almost always have fewer issues than an LCD. There are so many good reasons to choose this projector over the Epson in your situation, even though the Mits is harder to mount.

1) To answer your question about RBE on the Mits hc3800, yes it is always possible someone will see RBE in a MOVIE even with the Mits's faster color wheel (it is 4x speed), but it is VERY unlikely that they would see it enough when viewing Sports to even notice, I would not worry about it. It is really mostly only in dark scenes (like a Harry Potter movie) or scenes where there is a lot of contrast between black and white, or if the wheel was 2x or 3x speed. Also after the lamp wears in, say after 200 hours and as the projector lamp gets darker, the RBE will get less. Given your viewing is 75% sports, I think you have bigger concerns.

2) To answer the issue about mounting, for a 92" screen the minimum mounting position of the lens is 9 1/2 feet back to 14 feet back. Keep in mind this is the position of the LENS (front of projector), so the back of the projector will be another foot or so back because the projector is about a foot long. So that means if you mounted it for a 92" screen at the maximum distance back, then the back of the projector (where the PJ's outlet and HDMI plug are) will actually be pretty close to your requirement. However, there is some MFR tolerance error to that and that number might not be exactly right (see # 3 for an even better solution).

3) I would go with at least a 100" screen at your viewing distance and maybe even 106", as I think 92" is too small of a screen for that viewing distance. If you go with the bigger screen, then you can also mount the projector slightly farther back. For a 100" screen, the max mounting distance is just over 15 feet, which means the back of the PJ where the power and HDMI cable plug in will be right at 16 feet back to exactly match your outlet position.

4) You did not tell me your CEILING HEIGHT, so I do not have all the values to see where you can mount it at. That said, 33" is pretty high up for the bottom of the screen, and I assume you want it this high because of the back row seating area?

5) Although the Mits does not have LENS SHIFT, you can use something called Keystone correction which the Mits hc3800 provides. Normally I wouldn't recommend doing Keystone, but I've seen a lot of old Epsons and some are abundant with convergence problems, I can pretty much guarantee you the Mits hc3800 will still be sharper than the Epson even if you use Keystone vs using lens shift on the Epson 6100 (unless you got super lucky on Convergence with the Epson). Although many will tell you NEVER to use Keystone (Keystone correction allows you to TILT the projector and corrects the trapezoid error), but many people say a lot of things that don't make sense when I think you won't beat this image at $700 even if you use Keystone.

6) Besides lowering your screen closer to the floor or using Keystone, there is YET another mounting option for a DLP. Let's say If you are buying a fixed frame screen (instead of a pulldown), then what you can do is tilt the screen slightly by putting a board behind it and correct any trapezoidal error. This will allow you to then mount the PJ with a lower ceiling and you just TILT the PJ back towards the screen. Since both the screen and the PJ will be slightly tilted, it cancels any geometric error out and works fine.

7) Even if the above two solutions (#5, #6) do not work perfect, you can also use the black border on the screen to absorb some of the mounting error. It is fairly easy to gain an extra 3 to 5 inches or so of vertical mounting height just by doing this, this technique might bother some people though, but generally you cannot really see the error that much in small amounts. My calculator assumes a 100% perfect no-workaround mounting job, but there are ways to get the mounting spot tighter as noted in the above and with this method here. By combining any or all (#5,#6,#7) together, you can actually mount the projector with quite a bit lower of a ceiling than a calculator will tend to show.

8) The above solutions DOES depend just how low your ceiling really is (again I didn't see where you said how high your ceiling is).



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post #7 of 21 Old 08-20-2012, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, I really appreciate the time and effort you are making to thoroughly answer my questions.

Here's the deal with my ceiling height -- it's 8', but back where the projector will mount, it's 7' (due to the 12" riser). So -- it seems to me that to answer your question properly, you would want to know the ceiling height where the SCREEN is, and that answer is 8'.

I can't make the screen larger at this point; I came up with that size because most of the time, we will be using the front row of seats, which will put our eyes about 9-10 feet from the screen. There are only 3 of us (myself, my wife, and my daughter), so the only time back-row seating would be used is when we have several guests. So, I based my planning off of 9-10' viewing distance, and I remember way back when I planned this, that I calculated what would be the "proper" size screen for 9-10 feet of viewing, and that's where I got the 92" from. SO -- I based my room design off this screen size. As a result, at this point, I have already framed a wood column on either side of the screen location -- and once these columns are trimmed with oak, the distance between the two will be exactly 83". So, allowing for a 1.5" black border around the screen, I'm limited to a 92" diagonal screen (80" wide). I guess if I opted not to put the 1 1/2" black border, I could go up to an 83" wide screen, which would be 95" diagonal, but that's the max I can do. Plus, doing that (going with the larger screen) means I'd have to lower the screen even FURTHER (unless I used one of the "corrections" you mentioned...)

Let's say I were to go ahead and keep the 92" screen, and I was willing to lower it down a few inches...how low would I have to go to make it work with this projector? When I enter 30" instead of 33" as a "screen bottom," that makes the calculator tell me that a minimum ceiling height is 8'0", and it tells me to use a 2" mounting pole. I am assuming it's saying that because 2" must be the closest to the ceiling a projector mount will allow the top of the projector to be? Anyway, if that 30" is indeed the upper limit of how high I could put the bottom of the screen, for this projector, than that's only lowering it 3" from what I had planned, and I'm willing to do that. However, I will need to know this measurement exactly, very soon, as I'm ready to begin the trim carpentry and I plan to trim right up to the bottom of the screen. If I plan 30", and if I could actually find the right mount that only lowers the projector top 2" from the ceiling, and if I mount the projector so that the lens is 14' from the screen -- which would put the back of the projector at 15' or so -- I could do that I think. I need to double check and see PRECISELY how far back that HDMI connection is, but if it's only a foot or so behind the back of the projector, no biggie. Is there any "disadvantage" of mounting that projector back at the absolute maximum distance possible, based on the projectors specs, from the screen? Is it better to move it 6" closer, or a foot closer...or is it a case of where as long as I am within the range, I'm good?

I guess what I'm asking is, 1.) how can I go about being sure that if I trim the wall with wood, right up to 28 1/2" from the floor (which would allow the bottom of the screen's black border to be at 28 1/2" and then the actual screen bottom at 30"), that I will be able to mount the Mitsubishi and have it work properly, without any of the "corrections" (which I'd like to avoid -- and think I can, as long as it is planned correctly), and 2.) is pushing the projector back to its absolute maximum distance, and having the screen as high as it can possibly be, going to be detrimental in any way, w.r.t. picture quality?

FWIW -- if I use Mitsubishi's calculator on their website for this projector, and use 96" ceiling height, a 2" rod (top of projector 94" from the floor), and a screen of 92" diagonal, it tells me that 30.2" is my screen bottom, and my maximum distance of the front lens from the screen (which it calls "tele") would be 13'9", (with an offset value of 15.1, whatever that means). Anyway, basically the same numbers as your calculator gives. Is 2" a reasonable "rod length" to use?

Thanks again, for all your help here...

Steve
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post #8 of 21 Old 08-20-2012, 03:27 PM
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Keep in mind that the projector needs to be EXACTLY HORIZONTALLY centered to the screen, because Keystone will only correct vertical error (well some PJ's have horizontal keystone, but I wouldn't use it anyhow).

Nothing detrimental to lowering the screen other than the fact you have 2 rows of seating, actually 2 feet or so above the floor is how high most of us with only one row of seating install the screen, but you have two rows. Just make sure the back row of seating is angled and raised up enough to go past the first row of seating.

You need to be careful with the trim because screens are larger than the viewing area., 92" is the viewing area. So check the full frame height/width of whatever screen you are getting and check the amount of border it has around it. That will tell you where to install any trim or whatever.

This projector mounted farther back provides higher contrast, mounted closer up it is a bit brighter (not by a huge amount though). With DLP's I actually prefer them mounted all the way back, and at your screen size it should be plenty bright.

I would probably grab the hc3800 refurb fast though as long as it comes with a decent return policy and a refurb warranty, because they may be gone soon and I don't think any other projector in this price range will compete for your uses.

7 foot is too low for a ceiling, so you will need to use Keystone and tilt the projector towards the screen or if you want to avoid Keystone, then otherwise install a board behind the screen and tilt the screen itself (I doubt you will even notice the Keystone that much, but you don't really need to tilt the screen all that much to get rid of the error). The closest low-profile flush mount for the Mits hc3800 probably leaves 3-4" from the ceiling, but I would post in the Mits hc3800 or Mits hc4000 thread and ask others for mounting ideas,. With your low ceiling, that mean the PJ lens will be about 6 ft 5" from the floor once you account for the PJ thickeness itself. I also have heard of some people getting the PJ within 1 to 2" of the ceiling.

You could cut out a little cubby hole in the ceiling for the PJ and install a FAN above it that blows down over it, that way you could gain a few more inches and have the PJ lens right below the ceiling. Probably more trouble than it is worth just to reduce the amount of keystone being used.

Another option is to floor mount the projector instead, but that doesn't seem to agree with your cabling positions. If it were me, I'd just install the PJ, tilt it, and use keystone. You can always get a different PJ in a few years if you have a higher budget. The problem is in this budget it is very limited choices, and the Mits hc3800 is by far the best choice in the budget range, even if it means using quite a lot of Keystone IMHO.

I owned the Mits hc3800 and hc4000 before. I could only barely tell when using Keystone (really only if reading text from HTPC), I couldn't tell much difference or anything in video with Keystone enabled, don't get me wrong there is a tiny difference, but it's not really visible just for Sports and movies in most cases.



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post #9 of 21 Old 08-20-2012, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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coderguy --

I want to avoid any "corrections" if I can...just complicates the whole thing, for a newbie! (By the way, I'm making a DIY screen, so I DO have control over exact screen size; my screen will have total dimensions of 48" tall, 83" wide, with 1 1/2" of black border around it -- resulting in 92" diagonal of "viewing area.")

Anyway, I still think this could work -- my ceiling, for calculation purposes regarding this projector install, should be 8 feet, not 7, shouldn't it? The only part of my room that has a effective 7' ceiling is the very back, where the back row of seating will go...the ceiling height, even in this part of the room WAS 8', but I installed a 12" riser, which reduced the 8' ceiling height to effectively only 7' back there. However, the remainder of the room -- the front 2/3 of the room, including the screen location -- is all 8' ceiling. Seems to me like the 12" riser, reducing my ceiling height in the back of the room, is irrelevant, with respect to this projector install, no? Wouldn't this be correct, or am I missing something?

IF I am correct, then I'm back to wondering if finding a mount that will allow me to mount this projector within 2" of the ceiling actually exists. If so, then based on the calculator, it seems that if I can lower the screen bottom to 30" above the floor, instead of 33", and if I can go ahead and mount the projector at roughly 14' from lens to screen, then I think this might work -- without any screen tilting, or keystone, or whatever. Am I missing something here?

Steve
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post #10 of 21 Old 08-21-2012, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh -- and perfect horizontal centering is not a problem...the only problem will be measuring it properly! smile.gif Otherwise, my room will allow perfect horizontal centering.

Steve
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post #11 of 21 Old 08-21-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg66 View Post

coderguy --
I want to avoid any "corrections" if I can...just complicates the whole thing, for a newbie! (By the way, I'm making a DIY screen, so I DO have control over exact screen size; my screen will have total dimensions of 48" tall, 83" wide, with 1 1/2" of black border around it -- resulting in 92" diagonal of "viewing area.")
Anyway, I still think this could work -- my ceiling, for calculation purposes regarding this projector install, should be 8 feet, not 7, shouldn't it? The only part of my room that has a effective 7' ceiling is the very back, where the back row of seating will go...the ceiling height, even in this part of the room WAS 8', but I installed a 12" riser, which reduced the 8' ceiling height to effectively only 7' back there. However, the remainder of the room -- the front 2/3 of the room, including the screen location -- is all 8' ceiling. Seems to me like the 12" riser, reducing my ceiling height in the back of the room, is irrelevant, with respect to this projector install, no? Wouldn't this be correct, or am I missing something?
IF I am correct, then I'm back to wondering if finding a mount that will allow me to mount this projector within 2" of the ceiling actually exists. If so, then based on the calculator, it seems that if I can lower the screen bottom to 30" above the floor, instead of 33", and if I can go ahead and mount the projector at roughly 14' from lens to screen, then I think this might work -- without any screen tilting, or keystone, or whatever. Am I missing something here?
Steve

well, since you are building your screen, i would recommend throwing a white sheet on the wall and experiment with different sizes - see what size works best for you. you might find that you can go bigger than you're thinking.
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post #12 of 21 Old 08-21-2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg66 View Post

IF I am correct, then I'm back to wondering if finding a mount that will allow me to mount this projector within 2" of the ceiling actually exists. If so, then based on the calculator, it seems that if I can lower the screen bottom to 30" above the floor, instead of 33", and if I can go ahead and mount the projector at roughly 14' from lens to screen, then I think this might work -- without any screen tilting, or keystone, or whatever. Am I missing something here?
Steve

You should be fine, but I cannot say 100% unless I saw the room in person, I saw your plans but it's a tad confusing. There are ways to mount ANY projector only 2" from the ceiling, actually you can get it as close as you want (touching if you want, but I'd be a little worried if it were touching). I remember seeing posts, but I have never done it so I don't know the specific mounting equipment you need to buy, you'd have to look in the forums to find the post, or maybe post a new thread called "Flush mounting the Mits hc3800?"... Or post in the hc3800 and hc4000 threads and ask there, someone knows.

I would try to get it as flush as possible, but I wouldn't even worry if you end up off 1" or a little more, the image will still line up on the screen with only a tiny tiny micro error in the black border of your screen, I doubt you will see the error.



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post #13 of 21 Old 08-21-2012, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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grubadub -- good point...I could use the white sheet, and then make my exact screen dimension AFTER the projector install, and AFTER I see what kind of image I am projecting...

coderguy:

Here's a "side view" of my room:

main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1468

I did some more looking and thinking last night. It looks like placing that projector at 13' 10" back from the screen (the max possible), I'd have 19" of offset (the 15.1" of offset was from the front of the "range" of mount positions for a 92" screen; it increases to just under 19" if I mount it as far back as possible for a 92" screen). Then, the flushest mount I could find online is 2.5" from ceiling to projector; then the center of the lens on the Mits HC3800 appears to be 3" from projector bottom, from what I can infer from a few forum posts. So, 19" offset, plus 2.5" mount, plus 3" projector housing bottom to lens center, gives me a total distance from ceiling of 24.5". SO -- for my 92" diagonal screen, the total screen would be 48" tall (which includes a 1 1/2" black border all the way around, and thus viewing area 45"). So, I could perfectly center the projector screen on the wall -- 24" from the top edge of the screen border to the ceiling, and 24" from the bottom edge of the screen border to the floor. This would give me 25.5" from the ceiling, to the top "viewable" edge of the screen -- which is 1" more than the necessary "total offset" of 24.5".

IF my calculations are correct, then this projector WILL work, with no keystone, no tilting, just a normal install.

If you can comment on my logic here, I'd appreciate it -- and I'll thus go ahead and order the projector...that's a nice price and I don't want to miss it. I did quite a bit of reading last night on the projector itself, and it gets great reviews...and all the things I read agree totally with what you said -- that it would be much better for sports/fast motion (and a sharper image), than the Epson 6100 or 8350. The ONLY negative mentioned about the Mits, vs. the Epson, was that the Mits is "less flexible" in terms of mounting -- but I'm THINKING I've worked that out. The other is warranty, only 1 year on a refurbished Mits, and while a bit troublesome, you said they generally are less prone to needing repairs, so I'll go with that.

Thanks SO much for your help, and your advice on the projector. If you can confirm my thinking here regarding the mounting challenges, then I'm going to pull the trigger and buy this projector.

Steve
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post #14 of 21 Old 08-21-2012, 05:12 PM
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It will be a tight fit, but it should work with a flush mount even without keystone.

The position you mount the projector (closer or farther) does not change the amount of offset, only the screen size changes offset, larger screens have more offset.
Offset is the lens to the top of the screen, but yes if you count the 3" base measurement, then the offset is 18.2" for a 92" screen, officially the offset is 15.2".



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post #15 of 21 Old 08-21-2012, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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coderguy -- I'm confused why distance doesn't matter. I understand that screen size is the main issue, but if I have a 92" screen, and mount the projector 11' from the screen, and project a 45X80 image, and then then "narrow the beam" and move it back to 14', and project that same 45x80 image, it would seem like the "offset" would be different. BUT -- I take your word for it, so it sounds like I will have enough room to do this mount -- especially with that 2.5" "flush mount" mounting bracket.

Again, I thank you so much for putting me on the right track, projector-wise. I would have chosen the Epson 6100 without your advice, and for my purposes (watching alot of football and hockey), that would not have been the best choice of projectors.

THANK YOU for your time, help, and patience with all my questions!

Steve
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post #16 of 21 Old 08-21-2012, 11:22 PM
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The zoom control changes the positioning by changing the size of the image. DLP projectors have the same amount of offset for a GIVEN IMAGE SIZE regardless of positioning because the zoom compensates the image size to match the offset due to the way they are designed. Although if you move the projector without changing the zoom, it changes the offset, but that is only because you are now projecting either a larger or smaller image, and the zoom control is used to re-compensate that.



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post #17 of 21 Old 08-22-2012, 12:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Although if you move the projector without changing the zoom, it changes the offset, but that is only because you are now projecting either a larger or smaller image, and the zoom control is used to re-compensate that.

Oh -- OK. Makes sense now. They are built SO THAT the zoom compensates, and maintains the same offset. Got it.

In that case, I'm in even better shape. 15.2" offset, 2.5" mount, 3" projector housing to lens center, puts me at about 21" being the closest I could put my screen to the ceiling; so, that 25.5" distance that I'm now planning (from ceiling to top of the viewable portion of the screen), sounds like I have plenty of room.

I did re-calculate to be sure that the 25.5" bottom of the screen height from the floor would still leave the bottom of the screen viewable for folks sitting up on the riser, in the back row of seating. Given my expected first row and second row seating distances, an estimate of the "top-of-head heights" of the viewers, and then digging up my old trigonometry lessons from high school smile.gif , I found that having the bottom edge of the viewable portion of my screen at 25.5" above the floor will work out just fine for the back-row viewing. PLUS -- estimating eyeball height (for my eyes) at about 41-42 inches or so for the front-row seating, that puts my eyes very close to that "1/3 of the way up the screen" number that is supposed to be ideal. This seems to be coming together nicely!

I also checked in my room today what mounting the projector lens at about 13 1/2' from the screen would give me. I found that my outlet with the HDMI cable in it is about 2 1/2' farther back, at about 16' (as I expected). So, with the lens at 13 1/2' or so, and thus the back of the unit at about 14 1/2', I will have 18" of HDMI cable extending from the back of the projector to the HDMI ceiling outlet. Not ideal, but I'll find a way to make it not look too bad.

Anyway, bottom line, I think I'm good to go here. There is actually something appealing to me about having that screen perfectly centered on my front, 8' high screen wall -- 24" below the bottom border edge, and 24" above the top border edge. I think this will work out great.

I will be ordering the projector in the morning.

Thanks again for all your help, and guiding me into a better projector for my needs!

Steve
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post #18 of 21 Old 08-23-2012, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, coderguy. I purchased the HC3800 refurb yesterday from Projector People; was very impressed with the salesman I worked with (Rich); at $699, I think I got a great deal on what I expect to be a really nice projector.

Your help was much appreciated!

Now, I just need to figure out how to mount it. While I'm not there yet, when it comes time, I can imagine this could be a really tough thing, having to get the alignment/mounting PERFECT...

I guess that's another problem for another day, though. Gotta finish the room out, first...

THANKS!

Steve
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post #19 of 21 Old 09-23-2012, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I mentioned in my prior post that I'd worry about how to get my projector mounted in a way that it is properly aligned to my screen "later." Well, later is almost here. Since I've gone with the Mits. DLP, I need to get the alignment perfect, apparently. Any suggestions on how to do this? I'll also post this question over the the theater design forum, as I'm not sure which place is the better one to ask this question...

Thanks,

Steve
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post #20 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg66 View Post

OK, I mentioned in my prior post that I'd worry about how to get my receiver mounted in a way that it is properly aligned to my screen "later." Well, later is almost here. Since I've gone with the Mits. DLP, I need to get the alignment perfect, apparently. Any suggestions on how to do this? I'll also post this question over the the theater design forum, as I'm not sure which place is the better one to ask this question...
Thanks,
Steve

Huh? You're ceiling mounting your receiver? or do you mean the projector? Just sounds a little weird is all.

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post #21 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Good catch, wyen...my fingers typed "receiver" when my brain was thinking "projector" -- DUH!

I'll go edit it in the post...

Steve
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