LG HW300T: The first 90 Days and 1000 Hours of Use - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I am a tinkerer by nature. I generally don’t have a need for most of the things I buy but I do any way.
I bought my first pair of LG HW300T’s on 23 May 2012. I was so impressed that I purchased a second pair a week later even though I knew of the upcoming improved models.

So what do I think after reading the impressions of the new models and my purchase? I made good buys.
That is, I would still buy at least two because they are THAT impressive. The jury is still out on whether the output levels in the economy (max power saving) mode of the newer LG projectors is much better than the HW300T. My impression is that the new units are quieter but without more environment info I cannot evaluate if that would be true for me.

I have two units (D and C) connected to a 4x4 HDMI Switcher. I feed a 4x2 switcher into the 4x4. I have 4 computers connected to the 4x2. The 4x2 also has a coaxial optical output. On average, I use my Dell 530 Inspiron (Q6600, AMD 5450 vid card, winXP) during a 24 hour period from 0600 to 0100. That is 7 days a week with a typical day well over 12 hours.

I live in a suburb of Phoenix. In case you don’t know it I live in the desert. We just had the hottest first two weeks of August with six days of record highs. During the day, I keep my work space between 88 – 92 degrees Fahrenheit-barely at the limits of comfort. The hotter the day the warmer the room and the more the fan noise from my 300Ts (in economy mode) but they NEVER got hot to the touch. On cooler (yeah right) mornings I could use the “normal” power mode for the same noise as economy mode until the afternoon.
I mainly surf the web, write, and watch TV and movies during the day. I use the “D” unit as my primary unit. My bedroom is 28x20x10. I project an image 80 inches wide from 9’3” away and 19 inches off the floor. My walls are off-white (Coffee is the color. It appears to be warmer (red) in balance.). Three of my projectors: A, C, and D have a green tint when I select the medium color that requires the expert picture modes to adjust. Even then there is still a green but less objectionable tint. The B unit has a blue tint that is less objectionable because it is projected on a warm tinted wall. My projection wall has a door on the left and a hall on the right that permits a lot of desert sun to enter during the afternoon.

I use the AVS709 disk that someone created on this forum to quick calibrate my projector several times during the day. The five common files I use are: 1-Black Clipping, 2-APL Clipping, 3-White Clipping, 4-Flashing Color Bars, and 5-Sharpness & Overscan.

For a quick calibration I do the following in the expert mode
1. set the black level to HIGH
2. set the brightness (1-Black Clipping),
3. set the contrast (3-White Clipping),
4. check the 2-APL Clipping,
5. set color and levels using 4-Flashing Color Bars and the blue color filter
6. check my focus with 5-Sharpness & Overscan

To maximize my light output and picture I set my equipment as follows:

I. AMD 5450 (HDMI) DEFAULT: 1680 X 1050

II. LG HW300T:
1. LED Mode: Economy mode

2. Aspect Ratio: FULL

3. Picture Mode: Expert1 (RESET first)
Then
1. Contrast: 86
2. Brightness: 67
3. H Sharpness: 59
4. V Sharpness: 81
5. Color: 55
6. Tint: 0

Expert Control:
Black Level: HIGH
Color Temperature: MEDIUM
Gamma: 2.2
Red Contrast: 5
Green Contrast: -23
Blue Contrast: 11

III. Zoom & ffdshow ... (Combined-Community-Codec-Pack-2011-06-26 & zoom 451)
Picture properties: contrast: 141 brightness -2 gamma: 0.79 saturation: 70
Levels: original modify only luminance: X full range: x
Input: 3 ~ 230 output: 0 ~ 244


IV. Daum PotPlayer 1.5.29162
Lower left corner: INITIALIZE the Program
1. Video Setup
Video
Video Renderer: EVA (VISTA /.NET3)
Colorspaces
Brightness: 8
Contrast: 117
Saturation: 72
Color: 0

Levels/Offset
Level Control: x INPUT 16 ~ 235 OUTPUT 3 ~ 255
Gamma Correction: 114

Video Processing:
Sharpen: LUMA 250 ... CHROMA 200
Motion Blur: X (creates intermediate frames)

The reason I specified my playback software is that it is essential to get the most out of my HW300Ts. External (software) level, gamma, and contrast control is crucial to improving black level and contrast ratios. I particularly like the Daum Potplayer because it allows me to play 1080 video on my AMD C-60 but there are limits on the amount of optimization you can do because of the processor speed.

When my “D” unit is turned on it is blurry (well what did you expect at 1000 hours). I just wait a few minutes and it is in focus as best as can be expected at 1680x1050. I chose that resolution to be able to improve the quality of text at larger font sizes. The scaling process is more forgiving. I use Opera as my primary browser because it allowed easy zooming for years. Zooming text is a critical factor for day long web research to prevent extreme eye fatigue. I use Power Desk as my file explorer because it allows custom size fonts. So although the diagonal pixels are a concern they have not stopped me from using the projectors as a second monitor. I still prefer a standard monitor as my primary but I always have the other active for a dual display use (like Google Earth).

I use the 5-Sharpness & Overscan calibration file to adjust the sharpness of my HW300T. The more rectangular the projected display the more even the focus. I try to avoid keystone correction.

My tinkering projects: 3D and Home Theater.

First, let me discuss 3D.
I needed two projectors to use in a dual projector set up for 3D. I am still waiting to create a larger screen (I have the items assembled). The dual projector 3D process was simple: 2 HW300Ts, 2 pair of movie 3D polarized glasses (1 cut a lens placed over each projector), a silver screen, AMD 4000 GPU and up, WinXP and SBS 3D material. I used the horizontal stretch feature via the AMD Control Center that doubled the output display horizontally and simply played the SBS 3D file in a compatible player with the aspect ratio set as free). The players were stacked using letter trays and index cards to align the images. The smaller silver screen did not do 3D justice but the 3D effect was there.

(Note: The high gain of the screen caused me to see a lot of rainbows. I am extremely RBE (RainBow Effect) sensitive and took a chance on the LED DLP technology. The only consistent circumstance for me seeing the annoying RBE is during high contrast and warm (color temperature) balanced scenes. Fortunately, for me I prefer cooler (bluer) balanced pictures. But until I deploy my larger high gain screens I can’t know whether or not I will still have a problem with RBE.)

The greatest annoyance with 3D for me is the lack of support for dual projector systems. There seems to be a concerted effort to push the 3D electronic shutter systems and AVOID dual projector 3D systems. I have little interest in expensive glasses. I do tend to drop things.

Now, let me discuss my Home Theater experiments.
1. The HW300T plays video files quite well. One member reported that it does not play DTS files and I had that experience too. For a simple home theater, one need only connect a USB device (like my 2GB HDD or Thumb) with movies and play them. The unit outputs audio through a mini headphone jack. I want to find a wireless FM transmitter to use (I found one that uses USB. Unfortunately, the HW300T does not support USB hubs so only one device can be connected at a time.)
2. The second way to easily create a home theater experience is using the WiFi dongle to connect to your personal network. That too worked well. But again there seems to always be a price. Security! I could not disable my internet connection and use the access to my network to play movies. That meant that I had to trust LG to keep my net safe because internet access had to be active to play movies. I don’t trust so easily so I don’t use the network function.
3. The third way to watch movies with the 300T is over the air. I have my units connected to Cox Cable. The images are quite impressive using the “Vivid” Picture Mode. They are oversaturated but very impressive. The 300T allows me to change the settings and they are automatically saved for each of the picture mode (one each for DTV and analog cable). I am pretty sure it is based on the resolution differences-hidef resolutions have one set and lower def analog have another set.
4. The fourth and most common means was using the inputs: HDMI, Composite, RGB-PC (VGA), and Component and supplying source material. I used the HDMI and VGA inputs.

More Notes:

1. My preferred aspect ratio is 16:10, the projectors default ratio and my preferred resolution is 1650x1080 whereas the projector is 1280x800. However, if I use the 16:9 setting more options are available on both my video card AMD 5450 (using the video option) and the picture mode: Expert1/2. That is both 1080p and 720p give you the extra options.

2. Setting the “Aspect Ratio Mode: Just Scan” and using the “5-Sharpness & Overscan calibration” file you get an Overscan of 0% and a 16:9 picture.

3. I doubled the light output from my HW300T by stacking two units and using index cards to align the two units. Over 70 percent of the screen was aligned and the results were stunning. Brightness does make a huge difference. But note that I can approximate a doubling of brightness by moving my projector 30 percent closer or using a 2x gain screen. My screen for 3D will be a high gain screen. But I don’t know what the final gain will be. The dual projector with stacked double output (and control settings) offered much greater flexibility in controlling the picture.

4. One more tool I used in my home theater experiments was a simple fixed iris to increase the contrast on the 16:9 output area of the 16:10 chip. It was a simple but limited (for now fix).

5. My final home theater experiment was a dual side by side experiment. I used two projectors much closer to the screen (wall). The result was a substantial increase in brightness. I set the projectors in 1280x1024 and used the AMD Control Center to create a 2560x1024 display for use with 2.35:1 material. I played several video files and I was very impressed. But like all tinkering there were problems. The first was that I had to place the projectors about four feet a part (not pretty). The second was I had to align the image to the pixel (I looked into buying an AMD Firepro card with its edge blending software but that seemed to be too expensive of a solution). I got the alignment close enough to enjoy the image. The last problem was matching the displays. Under no circumstance could I get the colors of two (of my four) units to match. If I had proper equipment to calibrate the displays then maybe I could have done it but once again the solution was not reasonable.

I didn’t include any home theater settings because I prefer to use the panel in the 16:10 mode. When I finally figure out the decorating scheme that allows me to install my huge projector screens then I will concentrate on refining my settings for home theater.

BTW, my jaw dropped because it felt like I was looking into the wall with the double stacked projectors experiments. So my current delay is to decide whether or not it is worth it to buy two of the newer projectors because they have the controls on the side and back. But I read about a WIDI version and I think I’ll hold off for that.

As I finished writing this, I should note that was another problem that bothered me: there were times when the projected images were simply dull or flat. It seemed like the black levels and contrast had dropped off a cliff. There was a muddy picture. This also happened on broadcast TV. I would reset the display to the default Picture Mode: “Vivid” and I would still have a dull flat picture.

With the TV I would switch the Picture Mode or to a different channel and that seemed to solve the problem (This is on a unit with much less time but in a warmer part of my house.).
When it happened on video that I knew should look better I immediately started adjusting the levels and the picture transformed.

Okay, one more thing: everybody expects LED to be long lasting and I hope that it is but I bought a half dozen LED USB lamps last year (two different orders) and they all had unusable outputs within a couple weeks. I also have had LED night lights (that I use as mood lights) through out my house for over six years and several have lost quite a bit of output.
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post #2 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 07:38 PM
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Thanks for posting your experiences particularly the details. I had an HW350T which I ended up exchanging for a PA70G. (The difference at Frys was only $150 so I decided to chance it.) The PA70G has it's good and not so good points like most any projector, but so far it has been a good fit. I really hope the LED has a long life and doesn't lose too much brightness as you have experienced with some of your other LED devices. The LED really was the main selling point for me, because the PA70G is seeing A LOT of usage particular by my kids. Combined they must have used it 10 hours today - Xbox games, Minecraft, videos and web surfing. I am sure that usage level will go down once school starts, but it will still see a lot of use. I might fire up a movie this evening so we are talking approx 12 hours of use in one day. I am hoping LED was a good choice given this projector is now the main display device in the house.

One thing - for Black Level setting "low" seems to work better than "high". The blacks are deeper rather than grayish with the "high" setting. I am going to try out some of your other settings though since the projectors are similar.
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post #3 of 26 Old 08-21-2012, 09:44 AM
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Hi ,i have ine question for you , i have lg hw300g projector and i use it connected to pc via hdmi , but i cant acces to Expert Control how you did that? i have ati 5830 , i will share my configuration later , and will try yours thanks!
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post #4 of 26 Old 08-21-2012, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I want the PA70G but I can’t justify it yet. Last Friday, when Fry’s listed it I started to order it and the price was 829.00 dollars. Then on Saturday a member posted that it was back at the reduced price. The only problem was that you had to order it (or go through all the steps) before you would see the reduced price. Well, I really don’t like those kinds of games.
I wrote my impressions of the HW300T to convince myself that I could justify the 200.00 dollar (including tax) higher price the PA70G. The three main features I was interested in were:
1. Brightness,
2. 3D,
And
3. The location of the controls on the back and side.

Brightness
The HW300T in Presentation Mode (full brightness) would make me happy but I just can’t handle the noise. My impression from the PA70G thread is that it is quieter and brighter in the lowest power mode but not dramatically more than the HW300T. But dramatic is not necessary for a big improvement in either picture size or quality. So if I knew that the output in economy mode (low power) measured (still hoping for a proper review) was say 400 lumens then THAT would allow me to justify buying it.

3D
So far no one has posted anything about 3D other than it requires a computer and it is limited to 1024x768. I don’t know enough about either of those limits to determine if it is better or a reasonable option compared to my dual projector approach. I would like to know: What is the largest 3D image obtainable for comfortable viewing without a special screen? And are HD movies enjoyable at 1024x768? And finally, is it a hassle to play 3D on the computer? I just bought and LG 3D internal Blu Ray Burner. My ATI 5000 series should pass the 3D Blu Ray signal to a compatible display. Is the PA70G compatible or does it require another device to show 3D? I am still waiting for information.

Location of the Controls
The location of the controls would allow me to stack two projectors and so that offers me another option for doubling the brightness or dual projector 3D.

There are two other concerns with the PA70G: the focus and the warranty. So far everything I have read about these new LED projectors shows that even focus is not happening. I don’t know why but I speculate that it is difficult to mount these small units perpendicular to the screen. When I use my sharpness calibration pattern I use the over scan lines to show whether or not keystone correction is necessary. It seems that when I have 0 keystone and a near perfect rectangle then I can see the diagonal pixels over the entire screen. But the text is still not as sharp as I would expect despite being able to see the pixels that compose the text.

@indio22: If it is not inconvenient could you see if you have even focus when you have a perfect rectangular image projected?

The second item is the warranty. I have not rechecked but one forum member indicated that he/she was told that the warranty on the PA70G was NOT for the USA or Canada but for India. If that is true then that is not good.

@indio22: As for “High” versus “Low” for the black level, I prefer to use HIGH to setup the daytime use. As the sun goes down I find that switching to low is the quickest change to dramatically improve the display unless I am watching a movie.

@Kornell221: I am confused. I guess that the HW300G is the HW300T without the ATSC tuner so the selection of “Picture Mode” allows access to the “Expert1” and “Expert2” use configurable picture settings. However, if you are referring to the ATI card then I probably can’t help.

The reason is because ATI / AMD video software is the POOREST written and executed software I have ever used! I have dozens of their video cards because I am a sucker. I keep hoping that they fire the programming team and hire new people but it’s clear that the team has built in job protection: cruddy software. I never know what is going to happen every time I power on the computer! Will monitor A or B or C be the primary? If A is the primary and I switch on B will A stay as primary? Will I be able to swap A or B or C or D? It just goes on an on.

Anyway, my best guess is that you are referring to controlling the “Video” function of the Catalyst Control Center (Who created this confusing name?). Under the video option you can control the brightness, contrast, saturation, etc. I mainly use XP but the function is similar in win7.

There are options to control the gamma, sharpness, etc but I have not found a consistent way to access those options. That is, sometimes they are available (it is just like I don’t know which monitor will be my primary) and sometimes they are not. What is worse is if you do get them available and change them they don’t change globally. That is, some functions are duplicated elsewhere but not updated simultaneously so if you change the color in “Video/All Settings” then you may not get them changed in the “Video/Basic Color” area. I hope that is not too confusing.

If you are referring to another “Expert Control” feature then I would need the software you are using to access that feature including the version number. If I have it then I will see if I can test it.
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post #5 of 26 Old 08-21-2012, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obscuro View Post

@indio22: If it is not inconvenient could you see if you have even focus when you have a perfect rectangular image projected?

I've been meaning to find some sort of test pattern or grid, to help me perfectly align the projector. But I can tell you with a fairly square image (at least based on how it hits the edges of my screen) and with the keystone correction turned off, not all of my screen is in perfect focus at the same time. Whether that is an issue with all PA70G or just mine - not sure. It bothers me a bit and since I eventually take apart everything I own, I will probably open it up at some point and try the screw fix mentioned in one of the other threads. But in practice I don't notice it when watching TV/movies or playing video games, only if I make a point of noticing it when surfing the web with some text that is on the sides of the screen. Plus with this sort of diagonal pixel arrangement, text doesn't look all that great anyway.
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post #6 of 26 Old 08-21-2012, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indio22 View Post

I've been meaning to find some sort of test pattern or grid, to help me perfectly align the projector. But I can tell you with a fairly square image (at least based on how it hits the edges of my screen) and with the keystone correction turned off, not all of my screen is in perfect focus at the same time. Whether that is an issue with all PA70G or just mine - not sure. It bothers me a bit and since I eventually take apart everything I own, I will probably open it up at some point and try the screw fix mentioned in one of the other threads. But in practice I don't notice it when watching TV/movies or playing video games, only if I make a point of noticing it when surfing the web with some text that is on the sides of the screen. Plus with this sort of diagonal pixel arrangement, text doesn't look all that great anyway.

Since it bothers you just a bit I read that to mean that unless you look for it then you don't see it. And that is pretty much what I expected so that's good. The warranty thing still bugs me so I hope that that gets clarified. It still amazes me that no one has tried to do anything with 3D.
BTW, I saw your custom mounting bracket. Nice! My ceiling is too high to mount my projector. So I plan a mini box but somehow when I do make something I guess it will look like the offspring of R2D2.

I hope that when the Panasonic LED hybrid comes out that is reasonably priced because I really wish I had zoom and lens shift like it does. I hate having to fit my viewing needs based on the projector instead of having the projector meet my viewing needs.I believe that point and shoot cameras would not sell without Autofocus. I think video cameras would not sell with image stablization. And I think that projectors (LED) won't make the mainstream until companies offer shift/zoom/and autofocus as an expected/standard feature. Heck, they could at least offer us the ability to change lenses.
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post #7 of 26 Old 08-22-2012, 07:27 AM
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As far as HW300T and PA70G brightness is concerned, I'd say the PA70G is as bright on "maximum power saving mode" (i.e. least brightness) as the HW300T is on full power mode. The PA70G seemed brighter in its medium mode, and way brighter on the brightest mode. The brightest mode really isn't that loud from my limited viewing time with it.
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post #8 of 26 Old 08-22-2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obscuro View Post

Since it bothers you just a bit I read that to mean that unless you look for it then you don't see it. And that is pretty much what I expected so that's good. The warranty thing still bugs me so I hope that that gets clarified. It still amazes me that no one has tried to do anything with 3D.
BTW, I saw your custom mounting bracket. Nice! My ceiling is too high to mount my projector. So I plan a mini box but somehow when I do make something I guess it will look like the offspring of R2D2.
I hope that when the Panasonic LED hybrid comes out that is reasonably priced because I really wish I had zoom and lens shift like it does. I hate having to fit my viewing needs based on the projector instead of having the projector meet my viewing needs.I believe that point and shoot cameras would not sell without Autofocus. I think video cameras would not sell with image stablization. And I think that projectors (LED) won't make the mainstream until companies offer shift/zoom/and autofocus as an expected/standard feature. Heck, they could at least offer us the ability to change lenses.

Well, I would qualify to state the uneven focus does bother me on principal. But since it can't be perceived when watching video or playing games, the impact is not so great. If I wear my glasses, then I can notice when viewing some text. For example, if I compare the text captions under icons at various locations on my Windows 7 desktop, I can see some text is more in focus than others. And I can turn the focus ring slightly to get different text more in focus. But as mentioned, the diamond shaped pixels don't provide for the best looking text anyway. So I decided the focus issue was not a show stopper. Had I purchased a more expensive 1080p projector with the expectation of perfect looking text with traditional pixel layout, then I might be more ticked off about the focus. Also my family could care less about small focus issues and my kids love the projector and use it like crazy, so that played a part in keeping it.

But now that some owners such as Smackdownfletch have suggested there is variability in the focus performance between different units, I wouldn't mind better focus. I probably first need to experiment with some test patterns, get the projector perfectly aligned with the screen, and then retest the focus. Also, I should do a test with the projector closer to the screen, because I wonder if the focus issue is partly a result of the lens being near the end of its travel since I am projecting a 100" diagonal image. Sometimes a lens will not perform best when at the limit of adjustment.
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post #9 of 26 Old 08-22-2012, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Blurry focus during power up is the most annoying thing about the HW300T. Actually, waiting for the display to sharpen is more annoying. I expect softer text because I run at 1680 x 1050. But on power up the image looks like a CRT at the end of its life.

I inspected the display and I noticed a doubling of the images (one atop the other). The bottom and right side of the display were in focus without doubling. But I keep the bottom in sharpest focus because I watch movies with subtitles. Anyway, I could see the diagonal pixels over the entire display. About ten minutes later the entire display improved in focus (using my sharpness and over scan calibration image) although you can see chromatic halos.

I could use the recommended 1280 x 800 but then the jagged edges on the text would be really distracting.
It’s ironic that I complain about sharper text as an alternative to softer text. But I do get the illusion of more information when viewing web pages.

BTW, my room temp is 89.4 (31.9) so I still don’t know how much effect temperature has on the unit’s operation.

As a side note, I still don’t know why 3D is important to me. I pre-ordered the Avengers and Avatar 3D from Amazon yesterday
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post #10 of 26 Old 08-23-2012, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are more HW300T observations:
1. You must be able to control the level output of your source materials like movies if you want to get the best out of your HW300T. I use a computer and programs like ffdshow and Daum Potplayer. There is NOT enough flexibility with the built-in adjustments to change a dull picture to a stunning picture. One member has said that the LG PA70G has more user adjustments.

2. You must be willing to compromise on the IMAGE size. If you have two nearly identical projectors but one has twice the brightness it will have a perceivably better picture (at comfortable viewing light levels). The compromise would be a smaller picture for the projector with the lower lumens. So instead of a 100 inch picture you must accept a 65-70 inch picture. But let’s face it size does matter.

3. You should avoid digital keystone correction and try to keep the projector parallel to the bottom edge of your picture. For me that means having my projector 19 inches off the floor. Very, very small changes in height will effect where you put the bottom edge of your viewing screen. I use a wall right now so I’m flexible. If you use the keystone correction to make your image more rectangular the displayed picture will use less of the pixels on screen so the black bars at the top and bottom will not be equal. It can be really annoying

4. You must be willing to compromise on color accuracy. You can adjust the picture quality using the Picture Mode. Sending a 16:9 resolution signal and choosing “Expert1” or “Expert2” will give you the most options. Selecting Expert1/2 and using “Expert Control” allows you to adjust the “Color Temperature”. The choices are “Warm” (reddish), “Cool” (bluish) and “Medium” (Greenish). The “Medium” colour temperature boosts the brightness a lot (even in economy mode). But you have a green tint to your picture. Using the “Contrast” settings will allow you to get an “acceptable” but not perfectly balanced picture. The increase in brightness is what allows me to watch movies on a white wall (80 inch x 50 inch) during the daytime.

5. I use this website tool to help me: http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/. It is interactive. I recommend starting (in the upper right part of the screen) with the (1) “Adjust the Screen Size” then move the (2) MID-ZOOM/MID-THROW slider to get the projector DISTANCE from the screen. IGNORE the word “Zoom” unless you need it. The third thing to look at is the (3) “ENTER BASELINE LUMENS”. It changes based on the “ZOOM” setting. Those three things should get you started and the green highlighted box gives you an idea of what you may want to achieve. Then you may want to enter your own values.

6. You must decide just how important having a tuner and the ability to stream movies to the unit are to you. I justified the tuner as a quick emergency tool (but you must have an antenna). I was impressed with the picture quality streaming movies but I did not like leaving my network exposed.


BTW, using the tuner in digital mode (ATSC) gives you the option of significantly BOOSTING the audio output. Keep in mind that the tiny speakers are easily overdriven. I have mine connected external audio via the headphone jack. I don’t have an HDMI receiver yet. So if anyone knows whether or not the HW300T puts out HDMI audio please let me know. That would simplify my purchase of Audio Return Channel (HDMI 1.4) receiver.

In summary using the HW300T,
1. You need to be able to control your source levels to get a really good picture. A computer is the easiest solution.
2. The “Medium” Color Temperature will give a big boost to brightness but you have to adjust the Red/Green/Blue levels to get a better picture.
3. Avoid the need for keystone adjustments. Keep your projector perpendicular to the screen and level.
4. If you use digital TV you can boost the audio.
5. You can use an inexpensive antenna to make you HW300T a complete media solution.

Have fun!
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post #11 of 26 Old 08-25-2012, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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LG PA70G, Epson HC 720 and 3D.

Yesterday, I noticed that Fry’s had increased the sale price of the LG PA70G to 220 dollars (without tax) more than the HW300T. So I have to work a lot harder to justify the purchase.

I found a freeware program, “Bino” that should allow the PA70G users to easily output 3D to their projectors from a PC. The catch for me was that the program does not appear to use hardware acceleration. My AMD hex core processor struggled with some scenes so I guess that I may have to go with an Intel on my next computer build.

The most exciting thing about the program is that it allows me to output 3D signals to dual devices so my stacked (dual) HW300T will have the ability to play HD3D. I will have to build a light path to combine the optical output and add slots for the 3D filters. Because the projectors are very small the cost of quality material should be low.

The temperatures in my desert town (Phoenix) are coming down (low 100’s for the daytime highs). I setup my Epson Home Cinema 720 to test stacking its display with the HW300T. But I immediately realized that there simply was little value to that experiment. Even in the lowest output the Epson overpowered the HW300T. The Epson has extremely low hours of use.

It added noticeable heat within minutes of being turned on. I decided to keep it setup because I had forgotten just how nice square pixels looked. The screen door effect was noticeable (I sit about 1 screen width from the projected image) but because the text was so much sharper than the HW300T I overlooked the effect.

The colors on the HW300 were not as accurate because I had to compromise the HW300T to get a brighter picture. I did a few quick calibrations on the HW300T but no matter what I did the extra brightness (it is rated at 1600 lumens) of the HC 700 really made viewing more pleasant. Not only that but the noise seemed lower because it was at a lower frequency (my guess is due to a larger fan diameter). The colors on the HW300T were more intense. For example red was pure red but the warmer reds on the HC 720 were totally acceptable. I really liked my Epson. But then reality set in.

The projector was warming up the room. I remembered why I wanted to change to LED. I paid the same for the HW300T as I did for the HC 720 (from the Epson clearance center). I bought two because the cost of replacing the lamp (from Epson) was almost as much as the refurbished projector. Not only that but I wanted to play with a dual projector 3D setup.

I was happy with the Epson but using the projector was out during the summer days because it added heat and it did not output enough light without an off balanced picture and a lot of fan noise. Even with the extremely flexible placement options (vertical and horizontal lens shift and a 2:1 zoom) I could not blend the projector into the room setting.

But the biggest obstacle to enjoying the HC720 was the fear that the bulb could go at anytime and make the projector useless (well, who would shell out for a replacement lamp that costs as nearly much as the projector). I chose Epson because my impression was that they would make sure that you were happy with their projectors and the two year warranty for a refurbished projector was a good indicator. Whenever forum members mentioned Epson they seemed to have very favorable opinions of customer service.

I know people use the expression plasma like to describe an excellent picture but I have seen the effect with my HW300T. One of my screen tests (I don’t know if it is scalable) was using RustOleum “Nickel” metal paint on a Plexiglas surface. I was utterly blown away at the contrast, color balance (the color was actually amplified), light gain, and ability to maintain a polarized image. Whenever I want to be reminded of the fruits of my labor I pull that sample out for tests.

So at a 1000 plus hours on one of my HW300T projectors, I still have trouble believing that the projector is real. I keep waiting for some unexpected problem to appear. While the Epson does give a better and brighter picture, I have no trouble forgetting the “better” picture and enjoying my projectors. I can not wait until I build my stack unit and screen.
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post #12 of 26 Old 08-26-2012, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Using 1080/24 and 1080/50 on the HW300T
If you wish to view 24 frames per second or 50 frames per second (PAL) and you have a compatible video card video set the card to output the desired frame rate.

1. Using winXP (it is similar in win7), locate the projector under the “Graphics Settings” (left column) of the AMD Catalyst Control Center.
2. Mine says “DTV (HDMI””) 2
3. After you have expanded the options, locate HDTV Support” and click it. Make sure that the “Graphics Adapter” shows the projector you have connected.
4. There is a box of “Add xxx” formats. Check the format that you want to add.
5. “ADD” the format and then “APPLY” the newly added format.
Now you have the option of using the newly added frame rates.

OR

You could also use the “Display” properties (right click on the desktop or use the control panel) and choose the resolutions\frame rate from the \Settings\Advanced\Adapter\ List All Modes\...
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post #13 of 26 Old 08-27-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Squared-off Picture

If you have not perfectly (or very close to perfect) positioned your HW300T then you have three choices:
1. Live with an odd shaped picture,
2. Use built-in keystone correction, or
3. Use a computer and media playback software that supports ffdshow with perspective correction.

It is hard enough trying to focus the projector but getting a rectangular picture can seem impossible. Most of the demos I have seen have the lower right corner not at a right angle. If you use the built-in keystone correction you must adjust two corners at the same time: the top two or the bottom two corners.

If you use the "perspective correction" filter in “ffdshow” then you can independently adjust the four corners. That means that you can have a much more rectangular image when the projector is not in the best position. So you can put the projector at some truly odd angles especially if you use a tripod.

Perspective correction is best used with a second monitor because you have to eye ball moving the four corners on the display until you get the picture geometry that you like. It can be very disorienting to try on a single monitor.

Please note that you are re-positioning (actually you are re-creating) your image within the display’s pixels so you can loose a lot of resolution but you do have a better viewing experience. Also note that neither subtitles nor the media player window are perspective corrected. Only the video file being played is adjusted.
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post #14 of 26 Old 08-28-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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1440:900 on the HW300T

I hate devices that change settings without warning and usually for no apparent reason. My monitors have no ability to defeat “auto power savings”. My HDMI switchers decide when they will switch. Sure it is based on whether or not a signal is present but if I press “1” then I would like it to switch to “1” because I intend to apply a signal when I decide to apply a signal. My AMD video cards decide which monitor they would like as primary if I make changes to other monitors (it is extremely nerve wrecking). And my HW300T decides what picture mode adjustments I may make based on resolution.

Most of you know that the HW300T is a 1280 x 800 projector. The aspect ratio is 16:10. If you wish to display standard 16:9 material you have (assuming you don’t overscan the image) a border on the top and bottom of your display.

But with the 16:10 aspect ratio you have restrictions on the adjustments you can make in the Picture Mode. (See the Expert Controls settings of Expert1 and Expert2.) Whereas with the 16:9 aspect ratio, you get greater control over colour and you can choose your colour gamut.

As some of you might know I am interested in experimenting with 3D on the HW300T. The LG PA70G supports 3D. The manual for the PA70G lists horizontal and vertical scan frequencies. Using a program called PowerStrip (that allows creating a custom monitor driver) I tried to find out if HW300T supported 1078x768 120 hz as the PA70G. If it did then I speculated the HW300T might have similar 3D capabilities. Sadly, it does not appear to support 120 hz (although I will bet that LG could do a firmware update to permit it). The HW300T supports 24, 25, 30, 50, and 60 hertz.

So I decided to try other resolutions. Normally, I use 1680x1050 (16:10) in order to get more information (rescaled) on the screen. But as I indicated that aspect ratio does not allow full control of the Picture Mode settings.

Using the AMD Catalyst Control Center you can select 1440x900. That gives you the full 16:10 aspect ratio. There are two benefits:
1. Full access to the projector imaging and
2. Greater control of the Picture Mode settings.

There are two downsides
1. The display is at 30 hertz (it shows as 1080i@60hz interlaced) and
2. There is an occasional image flicker.

I’m going to try 1440:900 for a while to see if it is acceptable. If not nothing ventured; nothing gained.

If future, I would like to address the issue of RBE (RainBow Effect). When I setup my Epson last week the issue reared again.
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post #15 of 26 Old 08-29-2012, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Improvements

The single greatest improvement you can make in your HW300T is to increase the brightness of your screen. How? Well, you could buy a high gain screen. But the cheaper alternative is move the projector closer to the screen. I know you like it big but I’ll bet you’ll like it brighter especially when you realize just how little you loose when you compare the results.

I recommend that you visit http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/ and experiment. A 60 inch diagonal picture can be bright enough to be uncomfortable. If you bought it on sale just think of how many 60 inch smart TVs you could buy for the price: 0.

The reason I am considering a much smaller display is I just ordered a Foxconn nt-A3700-0H0WBANA (AMD E-450) that I want to use with the HW300T. Both the tiny computer (189.9 x 134.9 x 24.9) and the HW300T (54 x 160 x 119.5) should be easy to hide. I just hope the computer is quiet.

Anyway, going from an 80 inch wide picture with 11.7 foot lamberts to a 70 inch wide picture with 15.4 foot lamberts is a 32% increase with a MERE loss of five inches on a side. That is roughly the recommended light in a theater. To be more accurate, I estimate that my HW300T is about 230 lumens the way I set it up. Using the calculator tool on the website will allow you to put your own estimated lumen output based on the way you setup your projector.

One other thing you should try if you use the calculator: find out how many lumens it would take to reach 12 foot lamberts on your giant dream screen. Remember it is not what the manufacturer says but what is measured and how you setup your projector. The 20 August 2012 review on Projector Central of the Casio XJ-H2650 (a LED/Laser) projector illustrates this point. The projector is rated 3500 lumens, they measured 2985 lumens in the bright mode and that dropped to 541 lumens in the Theatre mode with even further drops if the economy mode is chosen. So have fun playing with the numbers.
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post #16 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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My LG PA70G

Yesterday, I bought a LG PA70G projector from Fry’s. It had reached a price that I could justify.

I could have posted in the LG PA70G main thread but there are simply too many conflicting bits of info in that thread to post there. Not only do several of the opinions conflict but some information is NOT consistent with my unit or the user’s manual. If you intend to buy either the HW300T or the PA70G then you should have downloaded the manual by now. If not I highly recommend that you do. And I recommend that you download the EXACT models you are considering.

I will try to be brief but you know how that goes. If I say that “no models” or that “this is not” or words to that effect then I mean that what I am writing is based on the knowledge I have because I can not know about every model and it gets old saying in my opinion when that is the only thing I can offer.

So the main question does the PA70G look better then HW300T? Yes.
Is the picture quality better than the HW300T? Yes.
Is it worth hundreds more than the HW300T? Yes.
Is it quieter than the HW300T? Yes.

But each response requires an explanation. More importantly, you need to know the conditions that I used to weigh my opinions. The manual gives operating conditions (temperature, humidity and altitude). I live in the desert in the Phoenix, Arizona metropolitan area (elevation about 330 m / 1100 ft) and the summer temperatures average over 38 (100) degrees. The humidity is low most of the time. I have white walls and very little light control. Those conditions are at the upper end of the projector’s specified operation.

The amount of noise the HW300T varied not only with output mode selected but also with temperature. At the loudest (brightest) mode the PA70G was quieter than my HW300T in economy mode (lowest noise). (All comparisons are to the 1000+ hour unit and there are wear differences between that unit and the other HW300T units I have.)

With the HW300T atop the PA70 I could overlap images and that implies that the throw ratio is almost the same. The manuals also suggest a slight difference. The ratio is about 1.4 (distance from image / width of image).

At the same distance from the screen the image of the PA70G is substantially better not only because it is brighter but because there are more picture controls.

The image of the HW300T (1000+ hour) has lost some of its luster and I don’t know if the long hours of use or the temperature has caused that. The focus on the 1000+ unit when it is turn on is not as sharp as a unit with considerably less hours but it does get sharper after a few minutes. If you only have one unit you will notice the blurry focus but once it gets sharp and you start watching it you will forget it. That is, until the next time you turn the HW300T (1000+) projector on.

Contrary to what I read in the other thread the PA70G supports 1080p24 like the HW300T. It supports 24, 25, 50, 59, 60,75, 85, and 100 cycle refresh rates on some resolutions. The simplest solution if you are using windows (XP but you get the idea) is to check “…\properties\settings\advanced\adapter\list all modes”. There you should be able to see the resolution and cycle display modes that the projector supports. However, you have to explicitly tell the AMD card to support certain resolutions if they are not displayed.
I believe that the 5000 series and above and the enhanced e-series (Brazos c-60/e-450) support HDMI 1.4 and thus the 24 hertz rates.

One member suggested that the PA70G supports 1280x768 at 120 cycles. I could only get my unit to recognize 120 cycle refresh rate at 1024x768 using HDMI and VGA. That is the rate that allows the unit to be used a 3D projector. So with 16:9 material you get a 1024x576 display.

I wanted to test the 3D but I lack too much knowledge and I could not get any help at Fry’s. They had an Epson 3010 and even that was not setup to show 3D.

An even greater frustration with 3D is trying to find out exactly what is needed to get a picture. I am missing a crucial detail and that is figuring how the required 3dlp link glasses get their signal to work.

One of the reasons I rationalized the PA70G was I know that a dual projector setup should be possible. Unfortunately, it seems that the engineers decided to make a design statement and taper the top of the projector with it sloping down towards the rear (Why would they do that?). Stacking the HW300T was difficult because the top is slippery and slopes.

Another bizarre design decision (like tapering the top) was to use the colour RED (actually a variation) to highlight menu selections. The colour is really annoying so playing around with the menus is unpleasant. I haven’t found out if you can change the menu highlight colour.

However, on the plus side of the PA70G design I liked the additional items added to each menu. That reduces the number of key presses for changing certain things.

The PA70G lacks several features that the HW300T has:
1. DLNA (networking)
2. Both Component AND VGA (it is component OR VGA on the PA70G). An optional adapter is required on the PA70G but included on the HW300T for component connection.
3. an ATSC tuner.
(Both support media playback files but I did not test the PA70G. Both support displaying certain MS Office files but I did not test that on either unit. )

The tuner was crucial in allowing me to rationalize my decision to buy HW300T. I may use them as personal theaters in my bedrooms. A 60 inch image is viewable under most conditions and the tiny projector would fit into any room décor.

The PA70G is brighter and has more control over the picture. You can move the HW300T closer to approximate brightness of the PA70G but the PA70G simply looks a lot better. If you use a much larger image then the difference in perceived picture quality WILL drop because both images are approaching a lower level of acceptable light.

My projectors were about 2291 mm from the screen. The image was approximately 1905 mm (1650mm x 1010 mm). 25.4 mm = 1 inch. I viewed them on my white wall and that means that contrast could not be optimum but the blacks looked darker. Again brightness at this smaller size makes a big difference.

BTW, the manual lists the (DLP) image panel as 11.623 mm for both units. And the length of the power chord from the power brick is about a meter shorter on the PA70G so that will effect placement.

I would like to quickly address the focus and RBE.

RBE is more pronounced on this unit than the HW300T but I have seen much more RBE on the HW300T (1000+) than the other HW300Ts. I have not played with the PA70G enough to see if I can reduce the effect. I am still planning (but I seem to get so distracted these days) to comment more on RBE but I will note that Wiki asserts that few people see RBE. Furthermore, some members assert that they can not see RBE. I find that strange.

I find it strange for a couple of reasons. Just because you can not see RBE doesn’t mean that RBE is not a problem. If you are constructing a “theatre” with a big screen and if your intent is to eventually invite guests then how would a guest complain if they got a headache from your system? I mean how would a vegetarian react to being invited to a dinner with only meat entrees?

But the second reason is that I was watching a recording of a TV show (Torchwood). Suddenly I had a black swan moment: someone passed in front of a projector and I saw the RBE (flash of Red Blue and Green) on the screen. I replayed and then paused the image. Sure enough there were the flashes. So I concluded that RBE can be seen by anyone if the conditions are right. What is strange is that the lower definition transcode of that same scene no longer had the flashes.

The final issue with the PA70G is focus. I could forgive the slight focus problems on the HW300T because it offered so much at a very attractive price. But I had the HW300T sitting atop the PA70G and I could not evenly focus it. The HW300T although duller was sharper over a much larger area of the image.

I may return the unit but I need to do more tests. (Ugh, I have to use their red highlighted menus). There is much to love (especially at the current sale price) but let’s face it if it does not focus evenly or sharply then the value of the PA70G is greatly reduced. It should not be a gamble on whether or not you get a projector that has good focus when you buy.

One member suggested boycotting and at the time I thought that was a bit much but in 2013 there is a great chance that I’m going back to basics (paper, pencil and books) because I am tired of starting projects and quitting because manufacturers deliver shoddy products.

In 2012, there is NO GOOD REASON to sell a video projector that fails to deliver an even and razor sharp image considering that the standard is high definition imagery. I’ll go one step further, auto focus, lens shift and zoom are essential to home video projectors (not special environment home theater projectors). With the potential of the HW300T and PA70G adding those features would transform the market.
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post #17 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 11:15 AM
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Excellent review of the 70G and the 300T.

I think many of us thought if we get a LED PJ with stated 20,000-,30,000 hours on unit, that it would stay bright for a long time, just like our hdtv's do. But if at 1,000 hours you seem to suggest your 300T is not as bright as ones that don't have that much time on them. I'm thinking at 3,000 hours the 300T might be noticably dimmer than brand new unit.

Which in a way means, maybe many of us should stay with DLP and when the bulb get's 4,000 hours on them, get a New bulb to get NEW Brightness again. What can you do with LED if it has 5,000 hours on it and it's dim, you can't buy new bulb, right?

What is your thinking on this. You are pioneer in this LED area , and dedicated yourself to going the LED route with buying a few of them same model. Could you share your thoughts now that you have time with them. Did you ever own a DLP or LCD PJ?
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Great review
In Cinema mode, is the difference noticable in image quality, motion and sharpness?
I will receive my Qumi Q5 soon. But i cant compare it to other projectors
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post #19 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

Excellent review of the 70G and the 300T.
I think many of us thought if we get a LED PJ with stated 20,000-,30,000 hours on unit, that it would stay bright for a long time, just like our hdtv's do. But if at 1,000 hours you seem to suggest your 300T is not as bright as ones that don't have that much time on them. I'm thinking at 3,000 hours the 300T might be noticably dimmer than brand new unit.
Which in a way means, maybe many of us should stay with DLP and when the bulb get's 4,000 hours on them, get a New bulb to get NEW Brightness again. What can you do with LED if it has 5,000 hours on it and it's dim, you can't buy new bulb, right?
What is your thinking on this. You are pioneer in this LED area , and dedicated yourself to going the LED route with buying a few of them same model. Could you share your thoughts now that you have time with them. Did you ever own a DLP or LCD PJ?


I have a couple Ultra Sharp Dell monitors and they loose brightness. All the monitors I have loose brightness so I suspect that HDTV’s do too! The same thing happened to all my CRT monitors including my standard def TV.

At 1000 hours, I do wonder how bright it will be at 3000 hours. But the only major change I’ve noticed is the blurry start up and that could be due to my local climate. At 70 inches, it still rocks and only when I do a critical comparison do I feel like I need something new.

The problem is appreciating it at 70 inches because it is oh so easy to want it to go to a 100 or beyond. When that is done then the lack of higher brightness makes the picture come up short. But I have no trouble using it during the day. I don’t have much light control. My bedroom is 28x20 with a 12 foot cutout that would be perfect for an environment wall but nothing exists that would allow me to do that. Nothing that is quiet and easily hidden in the room setting.

I have not compared the 1000+ unit with one of lesser hours. I have my Epson hc720, two HW300Ts and the PA70G all collocated so I do intend to see how much of a difference there is.

I love the DLP picture. But I can not stand the RBE. It drives me up a wall. My units show it and one great fear is that I will reach a point where it dominates my viewing. When I setup my dual projectors on my high gain screen I was Okay for 3D.

Later in the afternoon I started watching the mini series Taken and I thought I was going to throw up. There was the constant RBE flashing. I tried to lower the output so that I could control the contrast but on a really high gain screen I COULD NOT make the picture dark enough to eliminate the RBE. I had to use the wall and even then I could barely stand watching the series.

So until DLP goes electronic (like LED or 3 chip) it is still a no go for me. The Epson’s give a good picture but they are simply not in the same league as a good DLP projector. There is a grittiness to the LCD image (I also see that in the LCOS). I simply can’t imagine buying a lamp based projector because I don’t expect lamps to be available in five years (at a reasonable cost). And when you consider what they cost now then reasonable will be astronomical.

As far as bulb life, that is another reason I went with LED. No manufacturer guarantees their lamps for hours of use. Instead they only guarantee the lamp will be okay for a certain period of time. The time is usually ninety days. These estimates of 2000, 3000, up to 5000 hours are marketing gimmicks.

What is worse than that is no reviewer gives a wear curve for the lamps. Since brightness is important it would be nice to know just how much brightness that new 300 dollar lamp has lost in a month. In other words, in an ideal situation you would get a true 2000 lumen replacement bulb that actually gives you 2000 lumens when it is installed.

But what is the output in a week, a month or six months. We know that lamps loose output but it would be nice to know when they reach that half way point. Our eyes are so forgiving that we could watch a 500 lumen output from that 2000 lumen projector and still be happy. Because if the choice is to spend another 300 dollars or watch a dimmer picture. Then the dimmer picture will win.

I would take a dim (relative) LED at 5000 hours over a lamp projector because we know that the output of the lamp with be virtually useless at 5000 hours. The cost of replacing lamps for my Epson projectors equaled the cost of the HW300T. The Epson has a better picture but the HW300T is a complete media solution that I can use almost any where. Once the picture starts on the HW300T, I have no problem feeling like I am in a commercial theatre and most of the time the picture seems better.
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post #20 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishari84 View Post

Great review
In Cinema mode, is the difference noticable in image quality, motion and sharpness?
I will receive my Qumi Q5 soon. But i cant compare it to other projectors

I depend on using my computers to enhance my videos. So it is almost impossible for me to give that accessment. If you have a particular scene or scenes that you can suggest then I can see if I have them. Then we could use them for a reference. If I don't have a movie or movie type then I use my Video ON Demand service to find an alternative.
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post #21 of 26 Old 09-03-2012, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I said that the HW300T at 1000+ hours had lost some of its luster. A forum member pointed out that the implication was that the 1000+ hour unit was fading in its output. But I failed to do a side by side comparison with a practically new unit.

I sat them side by side and superimposed images. I aligned the images in the center of the screen. I used a remote control to block the light from the projectors.

Alternating between projectors with a 70 inch picture, both machines looked virtually identical.

I still have the blurry startup focus on the 100+ unit but then it donned on me that I did not critically look at that unit before I started using it a lot.

The general consensus on the forum was that LED projectors need a warm up time before getting their best focus. My desktop wallpaper changed to one with many fine details and lines. It is possible that the 1000+ unit is more typical than I realized because after a few minutes (and I don’t have to re-adjust the focus) the unit is at peak focus.

In short, now that I have seen first hand just how good LED projectors can look after extended use, I am even more impressed.
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post #22 of 26 Old 09-03-2012, 01:43 PM
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That helped that you did line them up side by side and did the 1,000 hour test. You did make it seem like at 1,000 hours the unit had dimmed. So when you tested them both, you found that it didn't. I guess hopefully you can keep one PJ in "new" state and tell us how it goes after 3,000 hours, I guess. That is one of the selling features of LED is no bulb replacement, we just don't know yet if at 5,000 or 10,000 hours the LED's hold up yet. So you are our resident guinea pig , or "master tester". smile.gif
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post #23 of 26 Old 09-04-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Warning! This is a long post.

When I bought my Epson HC 720 refurbs two years ago, I was impressed with the image, the tremendous installation flexibility, and the price (each was barely more than a replacement lamp). They were my first digital projectors.

I quickly learned that I could not use the full potential of the projectors because I simply did not like the noise. I operated the projectors at the lowest (and quietest) picture mode. I was happy until I powered one off and later turned it back on. It was in the brightest mode. I really liked the brighter image but I could not stand the noise and now I was aware of how much heat the lamp was blasting into my room.

I have always preferred DLP for picture quality but the RainBow Effect (RBE) drove me up a wall. Unlike some who are sensitive I did not have to move my head. I could blink and see it under certain circumstances. So DLP was out or so I thought.

Every time I would go to Fry’s I would look at the projectors on display. One day I saw a very small Acer DLP setup. The image was small and very dim. But unlike all the other DLP projectors I did NOT see the RBE. I then realized that it was possible to use DLP. I had read some evals by some RBE sensitive members that said they could watch the LED DLP projectors with little discomfort. The speculation was that the LEDs could build a color image much faster than a mechanical wheel. It seemed reasonable to me.

I read almost every post on LED projectors. I even suggested that a new category be created for just LED projectors. Eventually, I decided to buy the LG HW300T based on my anticipated use (in a multiple monitor setup) and the great sale price.

I have been extremely happy with the purchase. But I know that a brighter picture will give a more enjoyable viewing experience simply because I can have a bigger picture. I have followed the LG PA70G main thread and knew that it was brighter. It had some focus problems but so did my HW300T. So that seemed to be the norm for the current generation of LED projectors. But the overwhelming consensus seemed to be that everyone who had purchased one really enjoyed their projectors. I know I did.

When Fry’s dropped the price for Labor Day, buying the PA70G was a no brainer for me. I ordered it. I used it extensively on a white wall to project a 90 inch picture. I was totally stunned. It did what my HW300T did but brighter and much more saturated. Those are THE two elements of a great picture. I spent most of Saturday adjusting the settings and watching clips. (Yeah, I know colour accuracy is important but I remember NTSC.)

Most of my adjustments were to see what I could change or should change to suit me. On the HW300T, I had to make major compromise in colour balance to get a brighter image. With nothing as a comparison, I totally enjoyed the picture.

But I did not have to make the same compromises on the PA70G. The greater output allowed me more flexibility in adjusting the image. There are two important zones on the screen that I need in focus: the center for the main action and the bottom to read subtitles. While making adjustments there are three main zones: the top (info bar), the right (main menu options) and the left (quick menu options).

The main use of the top info bar was to confirm the frequencies and resolutions that it would display. In the main PA70G, two members have given information that was contrary to my experiences: I could get my PA70 (and HW300T) to display 1080p24 but I could not get it to display 720p120. My computer would show those frequencies and resolutions but I could not get the info bar to confirm that it was showing them.

The switching between the left hand quick menu and the top info bar constantly reminded me of the uneven focus. So after I made my notes I no longer had any need to change anything. I watched the premier of Doctor Who series seven.

In my first few clips of the PA70G, I saw RBE but it was not too distracting (it was during the daytime). But by the time I wanted to watch a recorded program it was night. I noticed my right eye getting tired but I thought nothing of it. I kept watching then I noticed more RBE. I felt queasy but just dismissed it. I started using the HW300T again and the feeling seemed to disappear. Then I recalled that another member had described a similar feeling.

I don’t think I have a hidden medical problem. In his case, he had the same problem with the Acer whereas I did not. I don’t know under what conditions he had problems with the Acer. I boxed the PA70G to return to Fry’s.

I did not like the idea of returning the projector. The next day I decided to test the projector in my family room. I have a HW300T there with a computer. I have a cut out (alcove) for a 135 inch wide picture. But the largest picture I could comfortably enjoy viewing the HW300T was about 90 inch (diagonal) in the normal (medium) output mode. This was at night. I hooked up the PA70G and set the image to about a 130 inch diagonal image.

I had an immediate reaction. I felt my eyes open uncontrollably (at least that is how I remember it). I could speculate but I am trying to recall. Anyway, I had transcoded some episodes of “Weeds” to watch but after a few seconds I was tense and after a minute I thought “what the heck is going on?” So I turned the projector off and disconnected the HDD. I swapped the HW300T back in and continued with no tenseness or other reaction that I can recall.

One member wrote in the main thread: “…so maybe this projector just doesn't agree with you.” I tried to figure a comment but only thing that came to mind was: Yup, so it would seem! He also mentioned his wife’s reaction to Avatar 3D.

I watched Avatar 3D (I am awaiting my pre-ordered 3D copy from Amazon). When I left the theatre I felt slightly queasy but when I got to my car I realized that I had a headache. I did not enjoy the 3D movie experience but let’s face it the hype is what made me go. (BTW, I have tested 3D on my dual PJs and I loved the results but the small screen limited the effect.)

I did not realize the long list of restrictions on using 3D on the LG (and I suspect on single projector 3D technologies) but after reading the manual I could not take a chance. I will definitely be looking for a follow up to that member’s wife’s experiences if he decides to explore 3D.

In summary:
1. I loved the PA70G but I could not test the 3D for safety reasons. Please see page 38 of the owner’s manual.
2. When I crossed an unknown threshold (this is pure speculation) I had an unexpected physical reaction. I don’t know what was happening. I do not have the resources to investigate.
3. Prior to owning the PA70G I thought that I could make assumptions about my use of DLP LED projectors since I own the HW300T. I can not. It is possible that I have an undiagnosed condition that affects only my use with the PA70G and not the HW300T.
4. I should note that during my tests I could not get the PA70G to go 1280x800 via my HDMI switchers. I had to connect the unit directly to my video card. It would display 1280x1024 60 in the info bar. The geometric distortion seemed to confirm this. In the same situation, I had no problems on the HW300T.
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post #24 of 26 Old 09-04-2012, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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1920x1080 on the HW300T

If you don’t want to wait for an affordable 1920 x 1080 LED projector then use you LG HW300T. Based on what I have learned, the maximum displayable resolution is achieved through a process called wobulation. On the HW300T that means that you can either display 1920x540 or 960 x 1080.
If you have a computer and an AMD video card with the catalyst drivers (I’ll bet the same is true with other video cards) then you can add interlaced display options to you HDTV choices.

If you choose 1080i30 on the video card then the HW300T should enter the 1080i60 mode (use the info bar across the top to confirm the mode) and display two fields of 1920 x 540 with a total of 1920x1080 pixels for an image. That is the 1080i for interlaced standard commonly used by broadcast stations.

I should note that this is my speculation but I have looked at several test patterns and they seem to have more resolution. Of course, the sharpness will be limited by the optics of the HW300T.

So if you REALLY, REALLY gotta have 1080 then it may be a reasonable compromise until 1080p is affordable.
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post #25 of 26 Old 09-04-2012, 06:31 PM
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Thanks for the heads up about the pa70g. You handle it like a scientist doing an experiment. smile.gif
I will pass on the lg pa70g until "more research" is done. smile.gif
Did you return your 70g?
Are you planning to pass on it or try another?
It would be interesting to see if the viewsonic pro8200 didn't kick in your RBE, since you are very sensitive to it. Coderguy , who is also sensitive to the RBE, seemed to think the pro8200 didn't bother him, like other DLP's do. You are into the LED thing, so carry on "your scientific experiements", it's a FUN read. smile.gif
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post #26 of 26 Old 11-15-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obscuro View Post

1920x1080 on the HW300T
If you don’t want to wait for an affordable 1920 x 1080 LED projector then use you LG HW300T. Based on what I have learned, the maximum displayable resolution is achieved through a process called wobulation. On the HW300T that means that you can either display 1920x540 or 960 x 1080.
If you have a computer and an AMD video card with the catalyst drivers (I’ll bet the same is true with other video cards) then you can add interlaced display options to you HDTV choices.
If you choose 1080i30 on the video card then the HW300T should enter the 1080i60 mode (use the info bar across the top to confirm the mode) and display two fields of 1920 x 540 with a total of 1920x1080 pixels for an image. That is the 1080i for interlaced standard commonly used by broadcast stations.
I should note that this is my speculation but I have looked at several test patterns and they seem to have more resolution.

The PA70G should also be able to do this 1920x540 or 960 x 1080, because its the newer model?
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