My LG PA70G and HW300T (1000+ hours) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 09-01-2012, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I posted this under my "LG HW300T: The first 90 Days and 1000 Hours of Use" thread.

Yesterday, I bought a LG PA70G projector from Fry’s. It had reached a price that I could justify.

I could have posted in the LG PA70G main thread but there are simply too many conflicting bits of info in that thread to post there. Not only do several of the opinions conflict but some information is NOT consistent with my unit or the user’s manual. If you intend to buy either the HW300T or the PA70G then you should have downloaded the manual by now. If not I highly recommend that you do. And I recommend that you download the EXACT models you are considering.

I will try to be brief but you know how that goes. If I say that “no models” or that “this is not” or words to that effect then I mean that what I am writing is based on the knowledge I have because I can not know about every model and it gets old saying in my opinion when that is the only thing I can offer.

So the main question does the PA70G look better then HW300T? Yes.
Is the picture quality better than the HW300T? Yes.
Is it worth hundreds more than the HW300T? Yes.
Is it quieter than the HW300T? Yes.

But each response requires an explanation. More importantly, you need to know the conditions that I used to weigh my opinions. The manual gives operating conditions (temperature, humidity and altitude). I live in the desert in the Phoenix, Arizona metropolitan area (elevation about 330 m / 1100 ft) and the summer temperatures average over 38 (100) degrees. The humidity is low most of the time. I have white walls and very little light control. Those conditions are at the upper end of the projector’s specified operation.

The amount of noise the HW300T varied not only with output mode selected but also with temperature. At the loudest (brightest) mode the PA70G was quieter than my HW300T in economy mode (lowest noise). (All comparisons are to the 1000+ hour unit and there are wear differences between that unit and the other HW300T units I have.)

With the HW300T atop the PA70 I could overlap images and that implies that the throw ratio is almost the same. The manuals also suggest a slight difference. The ratio is about 1.4 (distance from image / width of image).

At the same distance from the screen the image of the PA70G is substantially better not only because it is brighter but because there are more picture controls.

The image of the HW300T (1000+ hour) has lost some of its luster and I don’t know if the long hours of use or the temperature has caused that. The focus on the 1000+ unit when it is turn on is not as sharp as a unit with considerably less hours but it does get sharper after a few minutes. If you only have one unit you will notice the blurry focus but once it gets sharp and you start watching it you will forget it. That is, until the next time you turn the HW300T (1000+) projector on.

Contrary to what I read in the other thread the PA70G supports 1080p24 like the HW300T. It supports 24, 25, 50, 59, 60,75, 85, and 100 cycle refresh rates on some resolutions. The simplest solution if you are using windows (XP but you get the idea) is to check “…\properties\settings\advanced\adapter\list all modes”. There you should be able to see the resolution and cycle display modes that the projector supports. However, you have to explicitly tell the AMD card to support certain resolutions if they are not displayed.
I believe that the 5000 series and above and the enhanced e-series (Brazos c-60/e-450) support HDMI 1.4 and thus the 24 hertz rates.

One member suggested that the PA70G supports 1280x768 at 120 cycles. I could only get my unit to recognize 120 cycle refresh rate at 1024x768 using HDMI and VGA. That is the rate that allows the unit to be used a 3D projector. So with 16:9 material you get a 1024x576 display.

I wanted to test the 3D but I lack too much knowledge and I could not get any help at Fry’s. They had an Epson 3010 and even that was not setup to show 3D.

An even greater frustration with 3D is trying to find out exactly what is needed to get a picture. I am missing a crucial detail and that is figuring how the required 3dlp link glasses get their signal to work.

One of the reasons I rationalized the PA70G was I know that a dual projector setup should be possible. Unfortunately, it seems that the engineers decided to make a design statement and taper the top of the projector with it sloping down towards the rear (Why would they do that?). Stacking the HW300T was difficult because the top is slippery and slopes.

Another bizarre design decision (like tapering the top) was to use the colour RED (actually a variation) to highlight menu selections. The colour is really annoying so playing around with the menus is unpleasant. I haven’t found out if you can change the menu highlight colour.

However, on the plus side of the PA70G design I liked the additional items added to each menu. That reduces the number of key presses for changing certain things.

The PA70G lacks several features that the HW300T has:
1. DLNA (networking)
2. Both Component AND VGA (it is component OR VGA on the PA70G). An optional adapter is required on the PA70G but included on the HW300T for component connection.
3. an ATSC tuner.
(Both support media playback files but I did not test the PA70G. Both support displaying certain MS Office files but I did not test that on either unit. )

The tuner was crucial in allowing me to rationalize my decision to buy HW300T. I may use them as personal theaters in my bedrooms. A 60 inch image is viewable under most conditions and the tiny projector would fit into any room décor.

The PA70G is brighter and has more control over the picture. You can move the HW300T closer to approximate brightness of the PA70G but the PA70G simply looks a lot better. If you use a much larger image then the difference in perceived picture quality WILL drop because both images are approaching a lower level of acceptable light.

My projectors were about 2291 mm from the screen. The image was approximately 1905 mm (1650mm x 1010 mm). 25.4 mm = 1 inch. I viewed them on my white wall and that means that contrast could not be optimum but the blacks looked darker. Again brightness at this smaller size makes a big difference.

BTW, the manual lists the (DLP) image panel as 11.623 mm for both units. And the length of the power chord from the power brick is about a meter shorter on the PA70G so that will effect placement.

I would like to quickly address the focus and RBE.

RBE is more pronounced on this unit than the HW300T but I have seen much more RBE on the HW300T (1000+) than the other HW300Ts. I have not played with the PA70G enough to see if I can reduce the effect. I am still planning (but I seem to get so distracted these days) to comment more on RBE but I will note that Wiki asserts that few people see RBE. Furthermore, some members assert that they can not see RBE. I find that strange.

I find it strange for a couple of reasons. Just because you can not see RBE doesn’t mean that RBE is not a problem. If you are constructing a “theatre” with a big screen and if your intent is to eventually invite guests then how would a guest complain if they got a headache from your system? I mean how would a vegetarian react to being invited to a dinner with only meat entrees?

But the second reason is that I was watching a recording of a TV show (Torchwood). Suddenly I had a black swan moment: someone passed in front of a projector and I saw the RBE (flash of Red Blue and Green) on the screen. I replayed and then paused the image. Sure enough there were the flashes. So I concluded that RBE can be seen by anyone if the conditions are right. What is strange is that the lower definition transcode of that same scene no longer had the flashes.

The final issue with the PA70G is focus. I could forgive the slight focus problems on the HW300T because it offered so much at a very attractive price. But I had the HW300T sitting atop the PA70G and I could not evenly focus it. The HW300T although duller was sharper over a much larger area of the image.

I may return the unit but I need to do more tests. (Ugh, I have to use their red highlighted menus). There is much to love (especially at the current sale price) but let’s face it if it does not focus evenly or sharply then the value of the PA70G is greatly reduced. It should not be a gamble on whether or not you get a projector that has good focus when you buy.

One member suggested boycotting and at the time I thought that was a bit much but in 2013 there is a great chance that I’m going back to basics (paper, pencil and books) because I am tired of starting projects and quitting because manufacturers deliver shoddy products.

In 2012, there is NO GOOD REASON to sell a video projector that fails to deliver an even and razor sharp image considering that the standard is high definition imagery. I’ll go one step further, auto focus, lens shift and zoom are essential to home video projectors (not special environment home theater projectors). With the potential of the HW300T and PA70G adding those features would transform the market.

(If you have questions about my observations please give me a reference, for example, a movie scene or something similar so that we have a starting point. It would be helpful to know your environment: like how big of a screen, white walls, and if you are using a computer. If you are using a computer then we may be able to compare settings. Finally, if you have a HDMI switch that would allow you to compare the computer image with the projected image. I had a few scenes that looked horrible. When I looked at the computer they were bad there too. I realized that I had crushed my levels to transcode to a smaller file size. The quickest fix was to adjust the levels (as much as I could) in my playback software. )
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post #2 of 24 Old 09-01-2012, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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A Second Look at the PA70G

Focus
I am still very impressed with the PA70G but I can not keep it. Brighter will always look better if the pictures are close in quality. I moved the HW300T closer to approximate the brightness of the PA70G. Even then the PA70G still looked better.

But I stopped my file player and the desktop wallpaper on the PA70G could not be clearly focused. The difference was DRAMATIC. The HW300T was much sharper even in the scaled 1080p resolution. I constantly switched between projectors and the PA70G looked better because it was brighter and more saturated. I used the default VIVID picture mode. The HW300T held its own and the picture was great (and could be made much better with computer processing).

What really dramatized the lack of consistent focus was the on screen menus. If you focused on the information bar across the top then the center of the screen was blurred. If you focused on the POP UP Control Panel on the left side then both the center and the top were out of focus. That is unacceptable!

Noise
I have another comment on noise. Last night, the PA70G was quieter in its loudest fan mode than the HW300T in its quietest fan mode. Today that was not the case. The loudest mode was very distracting. My speculation is that may be because of the difference in temperatures. It is much warmer today in Phoenix than it was last night. I do not know what thresholds control fan speed. But clearly it seems that temperature has an effect. Also, I heard a strange buzz sound when close to the projector that did not sound like it was from the fans. I could not isolate it because my ears are too desensitized to sound (from my air conditioners). If you look in the manual then you will see that temperature (as well as HUMIDITY) is not only important in using the projector but it also is a factor in simply storing it!

Refresh Rates
One of my HDMI switchers passes 3D (HDMI 1.4) and the other doesn’t. I tried to access the other (not in the manual) refresh rates but could not using the same video card AMD 5450 on a different computer. Since those rates are on the computer with the cable connected directly to the projector, my guess is that the HDMI switch is limiting the refresh rates.

I really dread having to return the unit. I’ll wait a few more days in hopes that maybe the focus problem may change after a burn in period. I still like it but a projector that won’t focus is like a … (fill in the blank).
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post #3 of 24 Old 09-01-2012, 06:07 PM
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frown.giffrown.gif the uneven focus is a deal breaker for me.

I was about to actually order this projector before the sale ends.

Unless someone comes up with a fix for this focus issue then I will have to pass on this projector.

Your right, in this day and age in 2012 there should be no reason why costumers should shell out $ 500 - 600 - 700 for any projector.

This is not also the old saying " you get what you paid for " .
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post #4 of 24 Old 09-01-2012, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

frown.giffrown.gif the uneven focus is a deal breaker for me.
I was about to actually order this projector before the sale ends.
Unless someone comes up with a fix for this focus issue then I will have to pass on this projector.
Your right, in this day and age in 2012 there should be no reason why costumers should shell out $ 500 - 600 - 700 for any projector.
This is not also the old saying " you get what you paid for " .

What bugs me (actually makes me angry) is that with all the conflicting opinions so many were so right!

I hate going through the hassle of re-packaging and driving back to return it. I hope that there is a burn it period. One thing I tried to find was a peak voltage level control to see if that would improve the focus. But so far that's a no go.

And I have NO intention of opening the unit to fix it myself as one member has done. It is a great unit but I am not willing to go that far.
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post #5 of 24 Old 09-02-2012, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obscuro View Post

What bugs me (actually makes me angry) is that with all the conflicting opinions so many were so right!
I hate going through the hassle of re-packaging and driving back to return it. I hope that there is a burn it period. One thing I tried to find was a peak voltage level control to see if that would improve the focus. But so far that's a no go.
And I have NO intention of opening the unit to fix it myself as one member has done. It is a great unit but I am not willing to go that far.
I have fixed my PA70G because its done in few minutes and in my country (Czech Republic), there arent resellers for the LG projectors....I have bought mine from Germany. I didnt want to pay another 20 Eur to DHL and LG will MAYBY fix focus problem and mayby not...
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post #6 of 24 Old 09-02-2012, 01:52 AM
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Your right, if you send it back to LG god knows what they would send back to you, a unit that has been sitting in the shop for a few days waiting to get fixed ?
Or they might send you a new one from the factory.
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post #7 of 24 Old 09-02-2012, 01:54 AM
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Well if I can get this projector on sale and if it has the focus problem when at this price I am more willing to try and open it up and try the lens fix.
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post #8 of 24 Old 09-02-2012, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

Well if I can get this projector on sale and if it has the focus problem when at this price I am more willing to try and open it up and try the lens fix.

Okay, I am willing to be convinced that it may be worth the risk. If the procedure is successful and easy. The projector does give a great picture. But there are a couple other things I noticed last night. One was it would not let me use my HDMI switchers to set it to its native 1280x800. I had to connect the projector directly to my video card to get that resolution. Most of the other resolutions worked through the switchers. I had no problem using my HW300Ts.

The second problem was eye fatigue. My right eye was really strained while watching the season premiere of Doctor Who. I saw too much of the RBE. It seems that I am very sensitive to RBE. But I cannot say if it was RBE or the focus that caused the problem because whenever I felt discomfort in my eyes I would look more intently at the screen. And when I looked more intently then the blurry focus jumped out. I hope to do more viewing and see if I can reduce the RBE.

I have a few days before I have to return the unit. If I can adjust the RBE to be less distracting then I may consider the focus MODIFICATION. I will wait to see what you or others decide while the projector is on sale.
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post #9 of 24 Old 09-02-2012, 11:38 PM
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I wonder ? this projector has only HDMI 1.3 , or is that more related to whether if it can do 3D with HDMI 1.4 ? and will that be a firmware fix ?
I would rather have the DVI connection for it was a more robust connection than the HDMI.
The only reason I would want HDMI is you can run TRUE HD Audio through it.
If I can still get a true HD signal with Component hooked up to the VGA connection then I am happy with that.
Maybe you can adjust the screen refresh rate ? maybe that is what causing you to have eye fatigue and headaches ?
I know when I have my PC screen monitor refresh rate set low it gives me headaches and eye fatigue.
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post #10 of 24 Old 09-03-2012, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

I wonder ? this projector has only HDMI 1.3 , or is that more related to whether if it can do 3D with HDMI 1.4 ? and will that be a firmware fix ?
I would rather have the DVI connection for it was a more robust connection than the HDMI.
The only reason I would want HDMI is you can run TRUE HD Audio through it.
If I can still get a true HD signal with Component hooked up to the VGA connection then I am happy with that.
Maybe you can adjust the screen refresh rate ? maybe that is what causing you to have eye fatigue and headaches ?
I know when I have my PC screen monitor refresh rate set low it gives me headaches and eye fatigue.


I am confused by your HDMI questions.

I did not hookup Component because that would require that I reset my cable box and I don't like doing that with shows recorded.
.
Why is DVI more robust?

The refresh rates that gave me a headache were 1080p/24 and 1080i30. I tested higher refresh rates with the AMD card. However, it looses them if you power your monitors on in the wrong order (at least thru my HDMI switchers) because it seems to ALWAYS want to install a new monitor driver.

There was one post in the main PA70G thread that caused me great alarm. The member said he had to turn off the projector because it made him ill. So, I suspect that the projector was doing much more than just giving me eye strain.

When I moved the projector to my family room to view a larger picture, I got eyestrain and I started feeling sick to my stomach. I, too, had to QUICKLY turn the projector off. I switched back to the HW300T and I felt nothing like that. I am not aware of a pre-existing medical condition that would cause me to feel sick. But whatever LG did on the PA70G (with regards to strobing the Red, Green and Blue colours) apparently they did not do on the HW300T.

Since no one at Fry's could give me any answers on using 3D on the projector, I did not know much about it. So I thought I would be fine if I sent a 3D signal from my computer to the projector. It did not work (maybe it did and you just don't see the effect until you get the glasses).

Then I read the manual on the 3D section. It appears that I SHOULD NOT USE THE 3D on the PA70G. There is a list of conditions that should be on the outside of the box warning potential buyers of the dangers. Had I seen a list of conditions then I would not have even considered buying the PA70G projector (for its 3d capabilities).

The bottom line on the PA70G is as follows:
1. The special price is awesome.
2. If you get a unit that has good focus then you will own an amazing projector.
3. You will be stunned at the image at 90 inches and below. If you want to go about ninety you should have a special viewing room.
4. If you don’t use subtitles or expect to use the projector for reading fine text (like the internet or Office files) then even if you do have focus problems you won’t notice them because you can focus in the center of the screen. That is were the real action takes place.
5. If you expect to use 3D you SHOULD read the long list of conditions where using the projector can harm your health. Age is also a factor to consider.
6. If you can then you SHOULD view the projector BEFORE buying it because something more than RBE seems to be adversely affecting my viewing and it may effect your viewing as well.

The big negative I see is if you miss on this deal because you did not do your home work.
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post #11 of 24 Old 09-03-2012, 03:42 PM
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Hi I just got this from Fry's and the ceiling modes are disabled! Is there any trick where i can get it enabled? Anyone got ceiling mode working? I'm going to return it if i can't mount ceiling mode.

Also, when I plugged it into my amp it makes a horrible background noise but headphones sound fine. Any idea what's going on?

thanks in advance.
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post #12 of 24 Old 09-03-2012, 04:05 PM
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keep reviewing it cfishy, put it through the paces. Because only a few of you guys have tested the pa70g , how is the focus, rainbow effect, eye strain? The ceiling mount you can worry about later, first decide if it works for you for movies, tv viewing, pc use. Thanks
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post #13 of 24 Old 09-03-2012, 04:39 PM
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well the thing is I am projecting it onto my ceiling because that's pretty much the only space I have right now. I mounted it on my bed frame with a 1/4-20 bolt, so it's mounted as if it's on a ceiling. Without a good quality projector screen (i have a small one in the garage somewhere) and my place being very bright I still can read text just fine. The sound is surprisingly good for the size. DivX player works well. remote is very directional, and i keep forgetting it's above my head and pointed at my ceiling. The only other problem is that my amp/speaker gets awful noises from the mini audio output jack, however headphones are fine. Now i know that my Bose L1 is picky about which input goes where or it gets noises because it anticipated the resistance or a cardroid mic... or something like that. I'll have to wait until it gets dark to figure out the crispness and other issues mentioned. So far I'm quite impressed with it. Especially happy that I can play movies without a computer/tablet using my SD card/reader. it can't recognize one of the file's audio codec.

I've sent a message to their tech support about the ceiling mount option. See what they say. there's no firmware update yet.
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post #14 of 24 Old 09-03-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfishy View Post

Hi I just got this from Fry's and the ceiling modes are disabled! Is there any trick where i can get it enabled? Anyone got ceiling mode working? I'm going to return it if i can't mount ceiling mode.
Also, when I plugged it into my amp it makes a horrible background noise but headphones sound fine. Any idea what's going on?
thanks in advance.

Not sure exactly what you mean, but I have my PA70G mounted to the ceiling upside down, projecting to a wall. It works fine that way. I was able to select a display option in the menu, so it flips the image and displays it right side up - even though the projector is mounted upside down.
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post #15 of 24 Old 09-03-2012, 06:29 PM
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Not sure exactly what you mean, but I have my PA70G mounted to the ceiling upside down, projecting to a wall. It works fine that way. I was able to select a display option in the menu, so it flips the image and displays it right side up - even though the projector is mounted upside down.

I figured it out! Turning off automatic keystone does it. Apparently it was trying to use a sensor to detect whether the unit is upside down. But my unit is sideways pointing at the ceiling. once the automatic keystone is disabled, the options became enabled.

here's old symptom:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20106852@N00/7926406276/

See how the options are greyed out?

here's how i mount it on my headboard with a 1/4-20 bolt for tripod mount. i'm reading avs on the projection right now. works fine. http://www.flickr.com/photos/20106852@N00/7926406276/
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post #16 of 24 Old 09-03-2012, 07:00 PM
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The DVI port and cable it's self is less prone to damage than the HDMI.
On the HDMI you have very delicate pins.
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post #17 of 24 Old 10-08-2012, 11:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obscuro View Post

I posted this under my "LG HW300T: The first 90 Days and 1000 Hours of Use" thread.
Yesterday, I bought a LG PA70G projector from Fry’s. It had reached a price that I could justify.
I could have posted in the LG PA70G main thread but there are simply too many conflicting bits of info in that thread to post there. Not only do several of the opinions conflict but some information is NOT consistent with my unit or the user’s manual. If you intend to buy either the HW300T or the PA70G then you should have downloaded the manual by now. If not I highly recommend that you do. And I recommend that you download the EXACT models you are considering.
I will try to be brief but you know how that goes. If I say that “no models” or that “this is not” or words to that effect then I mean that what I am writing is based on the knowledge I have because I can not know about every model and it gets old saying in my opinion when that is the only thing I can offer.
So the main question does the PA70G look better then HW300T? Yes.
Is the picture quality better than the HW300T? Yes.
Is it worth hundreds more than the HW300T? Yes.
Is it quieter than the HW300T? Yes.
But each response requires an explanation. More importantly, you need to know the conditions that I used to weigh my opinions. The manual gives operating conditions (temperature, humidity and altitude). I live in the desert in the Phoenix, Arizona metropolitan area (elevation about 330 m / 1100 ft) and the summer temperatures average over 38 (100) degrees. The humidity is low most of the time. I have white walls and very little light control. Those conditions are at the upper end of the projector’s specified operation.
The amount of noise the HW300T varied not only with output mode selected but also with temperature. At the loudest (brightest) mode the PA70G was quieter than my HW300T in economy mode (lowest noise). (All comparisons are to the 1000+ hour unit and there are wear differences between that unit and the other HW300T units I have.)
With the HW300T atop the PA70 I could overlap images and that implies that the throw ratio is almost the same. The manuals also suggest a slight difference. The ratio is about 1.4 (distance from image / width of image).
At the same distance from the screen the image of the PA70G is substantially better not only because it is brighter but because there are more picture controls.
The image of the HW300T (1000+ hour) has lost some of its luster and I don’t know if the long hours of use or the temperature has caused that. The focus on the 1000+ unit when it is turn on is not as sharp as a unit with considerably less hours but it does get sharper after a few minutes. If you only have one unit you will notice the blurry focus but once it gets sharp and you start watching it you will forget it. That is, until the next time you turn the HW300T (1000+) projector on.
Contrary to what I read in the other thread the PA70G supports 1080p24 like the HW300T. It supports 24, 25, 50, 59, 60,75, 85, and 100 cycle refresh rates on some resolutions. The simplest solution if you are using windows (XP but you get the idea) is to check “…\properties\settings\advanced\adapter\list all modes”. There you should be able to see the resolution and cycle display modes that the projector supports. However, you have to explicitly tell the AMD card to support certain resolutions if they are not displayed.
I believe that the 5000 series and above and the enhanced e-series (Brazos c-60/e-450) support HDMI 1.4 and thus the 24 hertz rates.
One member suggested that the PA70G supports 1280x768 at 120 cycles. I could only get my unit to recognize 120 cycle refresh rate at 1024x768 using HDMI and VGA. That is the rate that allows the unit to be used a 3D projector. So with 16:9 material you get a 1024x576 display.
I wanted to test the 3D but I lack too much knowledge and I could not get any help at Fry’s. They had an Epson 3010 and even that was not setup to show 3D.
An even greater frustration with 3D is trying to find out exactly what is needed to get a picture. I am missing a crucial detail and that is figuring how the required 3dlp link glasses get their signal to work.
One of the reasons I rationalized the PA70G was I know that a dual projector setup should be possible. Unfortunately, it seems that the engineers decided to make a design statement and taper the top of the projector with it sloping down towards the rear (Why would they do that?). Stacking the HW300T was difficult because the top is slippery and slopes.
Another bizarre design decision (like tapering the top) was to use the colour RED (actually a variation) to highlight menu selections. The colour is really annoying so playing around with the menus is unpleasant. I haven’t found out if you can change the menu highlight colour.
However, on the plus side of the PA70G design I liked the additional items added to each menu. That reduces the number of key presses for changing certain things.
The PA70G lacks several features that the HW300T has:
1. DLNA (networking)
2. Both Component AND VGA (it is component OR VGA on the PA70G). An optional adapter is required on the PA70G but included on the HW300T for component connection.
3. an ATSC tuner.
(Both support media playback files but I did not test the PA70G. Both support displaying certain MS Office files but I did not test that on either unit. )
The tuner was crucial in allowing me to rationalize my decision to buy HW300T. I may use them as personal theaters in my bedrooms. A 60 inch image is viewable under most conditions and the tiny projector would fit into any room décor.
The PA70G is brighter and has more control over the picture. You can move the HW300T closer to approximate brightness of the PA70G but the PA70G simply looks a lot better. If you use a much larger image then the difference in perceived picture quality WILL drop because both images are approaching a lower level of acceptable light.
My projectors were about 2291 mm from the screen. The image was approximately 1905 mm (1650mm x 1010 mm). 25.4 mm = 1 inch. I viewed them on my white wall and that means that contrast could not be optimum but the blacks looked darker. Again brightness at this smaller size makes a big difference.
BTW, the manual lists the (DLP) image panel as 11.623 mm for both units. And the length of the power chord from the power brick is about a meter shorter on the PA70G so that will effect placement.
I would like to quickly address the focus and RBE.
RBE is more pronounced on this unit than the HW300T but I have seen much more RBE on the HW300T (1000+) than the other HW300Ts. I have not played with the PA70G enough to see if I can reduce the effect. I am still planning (but I seem to get so distracted these days) to comment more on RBE but I will note that Wiki asserts that few people see RBE. Furthermore, some members assert that they can not see RBE. I find that strange.
I find it strange for a couple of reasons. Just because you can not see RBE doesn’t mean that RBE is not a problem. If you are constructing a “theatre” with a big screen and if your intent is to eventually invite guests then how would a guest complain if they got a headache from your system? I mean how would a vegetarian react to being invited to a dinner with only meat entrees?
But the second reason is that I was watching a recording of a TV show (Torchwood). Suddenly I had a black swan moment: someone passed in front of a projector and I saw the RBE (flash of Red Blue and Green) on the screen. I replayed and then paused the image. Sure enough there were the flashes. So I concluded that RBE can be seen by anyone if the conditions are right. What is strange is that the lower definition transcode of that same scene no longer had the flashes.
The final issue with the PA70G is focus. I could forgive the slight focus problems on the HW300T because it offered so much at a very attractive price. But I had the HW300T sitting atop the PA70G and I could not evenly focus it. The HW300T although duller was sharper over a much larger area of the image.
I may return the unit but I need to do more tests. (Ugh, I have to use their red highlighted menus). There is much to love (especially at the current sale price) but let’s face it if it does not focus evenly or sharply then the value of the PA70G is greatly reduced. It should not be a gamble on whether or not you get a projector that has good focus when you buy.
One member suggested boycotting and at the time I thought that was a bit much but in 2013 there is a great chance that I’m going back to basics (paper, pencil and books) because I am tired of starting projects and quitting because manufacturers deliver shoddy products.
In 2012, there is NO GOOD REASON to sell a video projector that fails to deliver an even and razor sharp image considering that the standard is high definition imagery. I’ll go one step further, auto focus, lens shift and zoom are essential to home video projectors (not special environment home theater projectors). With the potential of the HW300T and PA70G adding those features would transform the market.
(If you have questions about my observations please give me a reference, for example, a movie scene or something similar so that we have a starting point. It would be helpful to know your environment: like how big of a screen, white walls, and if you are using a computer. If you are using a computer then we may be able to compare settings. Finally, if you have a HDMI switch that would allow you to compare the computer image with the projected image. I had a few scenes that looked horrible. When I looked at the computer they were bad there too. I realized that I had crushed my levels to transcode to a smaller file size. The quickest fix was to adjust the levels (as much as I could) in my playback software. )

are blacks much better than the hw300t? 2,000 compared to 15,000? thanks
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Originally Posted by obscuro View Post

The PA70G is brighter and has more control over the picture. You can move the HW300T closer to approximate brightness of the PA70G but the PA70G simply looks a lot better. If you use a much larger image then the difference in perceived picture quality WILL drop because both images are approaching a lower level of acceptable light.

so if i get you right the differences in picture quality become smaller if the image gets larger? so for someone using a 120" screen the upgrade is not that big?
can you become a little bit more specific about the focus problems on the hw300t especially related to the pa70g? so would you say the hw300t is not as sharp or focused as the pa70g but therefor it is even of the whole picture?
then i have a special question concerning the sealing of the light path of the hw300t. if you project a complete black image, can you see white dust blobs when the unit is defocused and/or focused?

thanks a lot
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Originally Posted by travis_bickle View Post

so if i get you right the differences in picture quality become smaller if the image gets larger? so for someone using a 120" screen the upgrade is not that big?
can you become a little bit more specific about the focus problems on the hw300t especially related to the pa70g? so would you say the hw300t is not as sharp or focused as the pa70g but therefor it is even of the whole picture?
then i have a special question concerning the sealing of the light path of the hw300t. if you project a complete black image, can you see white dust blobs when the unit is defocused and/or focused?
thanks a lot

I can answer the questions regarding the hw300t since I had several HW models 301g 300t and 350t, first the focus, all but one had great even focus across the entire image area, I used a computer with grid test screen shots and text pages to test corner to corner focusing issues, all but one (a hw301g) had pretty damn near perfect focus, the one that was uneven was not that bad either. could never really tell the difference if you were watching video. no dust blobs visible on an all black image. slight light leakage on all the projectors I had. I have a border on my screen made of wood that I painted with flat black paint and it turned out that the paint isn't all that flat, so I could see a slight reflection on the black border on the bottom of the screen. it seemed to moved locations depending on where I was seating, I can't understand why, but it was there, again very subtle and might not notice if you have a real light absorbing border. my screen is 96" diagonal (16:10) stewart ultramatte 1.5 gain and mostly watched stuff at night, some daytime viewing of news and stuff, my settings were 40 brightness (standard user) and on economy mode and it was bright enough, of course the high end screen helps, hope that helps
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Originally Posted by travis_bickle View Post

so if i get you right the differences in picture quality become smaller if the image gets larger? so for someone using a 120" screen the upgrade is not that big?
can you become a little bit more specific about the focus problems on the hw300t especially related to the pa70g? so would you say the hw300t is not as sharp or focused as the pa70g but therefor it is even of the whole picture?
then i have a special question concerning the sealing of the light path of the hw300t. if you project a complete black image, can you see white dust blobs when the unit is defocused and/or focused?
thanks a lot

forgot to mention that the sharpness on the 300t was as good as I seen on any projector and I had plenty of them, and Im not a big fan of LG's customer service and tech support, they are horrible. LG seems to have better overall picture quality of all the LED projectors in this class. Im waiting to see if the LG PB61U comes down in price at amazon and adorama before I decide to buy or just wait for the next generation of hopefully 1080P LED projectors of 2013, but Im worried that they may do away with the built-in HD tuners by then.
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thank you very much for your answers smile.gif
helps a lot. the light leakage is a little bit of a downer since i project to a white wall without absorbing border. but maybe i will try nevertheless. sharpness is more important than a little bit of light leakage. also that there are no dust blobs concerning long time use is very calming.
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Originally Posted by travis_bickle View Post

thank you very much for your answers smile.gif
helps a lot. the light leakage is a little bit of a downer since i project to a white wall without absorbing border. but maybe i will try nevertheless. sharpness is more important than a little bit of light leakage. also that there are no dust blobs concerning long time use is very calming.

by the way the hw300t is on sale 399.00 @ frys starting tomorrow (friday) but I think it's a typo, I think they only have the hw350t, but it's the same exact thing, doesn't show online but it's on they're weekly specials
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Originally Posted by garibay_2004 View Post

by the way the hw300t is on sale 399.00 @ frys starting tomorrow (friday) but I think it's a typo, I think they only have the hw350t, but it's the same exact thing, doesn't show online but it's on they're weekly specials

FYI - Most of the items that are listed as being in house or on sale specials at Frys are not avalable at the prices mentioned online and the individual stores won't sell or ship directly to customers. So you folks who KEEP mentioning the Fry specials are TORTURING those of us who come here an read about these Deals!!!! ARGH!!!!mad.gifmad.gif
mad.gifmad.gif
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FYI - Most of the items that are listed as being in house or on sale specials at Frys are not avalable at the prices mentioned online and the individual stores won't sell or ship directly to customers. So you folks who KEEP mentioning the Fry specials are TORTURING those of us who come here an read about these Deals!!!! ARGH!!!!mad.gifmad.gif
mad.gifmad.gif
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sorry just trying to help, but I know what you mean
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